Ukrainian parliament bans gambling leaving 200,000 without work, CPU abstains

[Describer]

From all parties only communists abstained, all others supported the act of closing of all casino-like activities amidst 30% GDP drop, claiming that gambling is a parasite of community. Still it leaves as much as 3% of entire population without work. Whats your view on this dear comrades? Do you think parliament is right or wrong?

[Poppytry]

Right.. Gambling has a negative influence on society, unrealistic dreams are portrayed where in one night you can go from being a bum to a millionaire when in fact its all bollocks as the house always win. For every one winner there's about a hundred losers. Its capitalist heaven. As for the job losses. Well that's sad and the government should allocate these people new jobs somewhere.

[Describer]

Right.. Gambling has a negative influence on society, unrealistic dreams are portrayed where in one night you can go from being a bum to a millionaire when in fact its all bollocks as the house always win. For every one winner there's about a hundred losers. Its capitalist heaven. As for the job losses. Well that's sad and the government should allocate these people new jobs somewhere.
Heh, I really cant see where they should relocate. Metallurgy production dropped as hell, trade too. Its hard to get even a janitor vacancy now. So basically these people will have two choices i think - became a criminals or emigrate.

[Woland]

If Ukraine's gambling institutions are like Russia's, which is very likely, judging by such massive numbers, then I guess it would be correct to describe them as 'parasitical' and criminal. Ever since 1991, they are absolutely everywhere. Often having connections with criminals/mafia, they have been doing nothing but stealing money from the working class, the elderly, young people, etc. often through trickery, scams and other illegal things, which drew a lot of people into poverty, suicide, and so on, especially during the 1991-2000 crisis. Certainly, a lot of this has to do with the initial naivety and depression which these times brought.

Now, while somewhat tactical, this seems to be a very rash and destrucive move by the Ukrainian Parliament. Russia, while not in a real crisis, also banned gambling institutions a couple of years ago, replacing them with a few 'gambling zones', playgrounds for the nouveau riche, in different parts of the country, into which A LOT of investment went. They are seen as good business and source of revenue to the regions (i.e. governors, etc.) which have these 'zones'- these are the places where all of Russia's remaining wealth is situated, together with Moscow and parts of Leningrad.

Ukraine is in a massive crisis. Such job losses are of course, unfortunate, many won't be able to find new jobs, but at the same time, they are making their money by exploiting and stealing from the real workers, those who have to be supported the most right now, like: http://www.revleft.com/vb/situation-ukraine-t100820/index.html?t=100820. They might not be rich, the real winners are the owners of the casinos, but gambling has no place in socialism. Now, CPU, if it is like CPRF, probably are nothing more than nationalists, social-democrats-reformists, homophobes, supporters of the Orthrodox church, etc, especially the leaders, but I still do not understand why they abstained.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

They should have taken over gambling business ("de-privatised" it) instead of abolishing it. Like smoking and drinking, the "harm" caused by gambling is a social problem that needs social solutions, rather than such heavy-handed non-solutions that will only serve to increase the black market.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

It's just going to drive it underground. It's estimated more alcohol was sold during prohibiton per annum than before it was outlawed.

And if it's driven underground it stops any sort of accountability or regulation so people are susceptable to even higher levels of exploitation. In these times of hardship you can hardly blame working class people turning to gambling, people for trying to get something for nothing, which is what property is already doing for the rich.

[The Author]

Now, while somewhat tactical, this seems to be a very rash and destrucive move by the Ukrainian Parliament. Russia, while not in a real crisis, also banned gambling institutions a couple of years ago, replacing them with a few 'gambling zones', playgrounds for the nouveau riche, in different parts of the country, into which A LOT of investment went. They are seen as good business and source of revenue to the regions (i.e. governors, etc.) which have these 'zones'- these are the places where all of Russia's remaining wealth is situated, together with Moscow and parts of Leningrad.

Speaking of which, here are some details of those changes for those interested according to a news statement published by the Kremlin on its official website on May 5:


May 5, 2009 16:30
Tuesday


GORKI, MOSCOW REGION.
Dmitry Medvedev had a working meeting with the Federal Tax Service Head, Mikhail Mokretsov.

The gambling business reform in Russia was the subject of discussion.

According to the Federal Law On State Regulation of the Organisation and Conduct of Gambling, signed by the President of Russia on December 30, 2006, as of July 1, 2009 casinos and slot machines will be confined to four specific zones established in the Kaliningrad Region, the Altai and Primorye Territories, as well as on the border between the Rostov Region and Krasnodar Territory. No gambling business will be conducted in other areas of the Russian Federation.
http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/text/news/2009/05/215855.shtml


May 5, 2009,

Gorki, Moscow Region

Beginning of Working Meeting with Federal Tax Service Head Mikhail Mokretsov


PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA DMITRY MEDVEDEV: I have just met with A Just Russia. They raised the question about the rules relating to gaming activities and to gambling more generally in Russia, since from July 1, 2009 the maintenance of these games and engaging in betting activities will proceed on a completely different basis. In other words, those facilities that have existed up to this point are to be closed. We will create four zones in which gambling will be carried out in the future.


This is what I want to say in this regard. First, it is indeed true that new rules are about to come into force on July 1. They will not be revised in any way and there will be no backsliding, although various business organisations have been lobbying for precisely this. This is the official government position.


Second, I would like you to report on how our tax service is prepared to implement and monitor gambling after the new rules take effect, how this will affect federal revenues, and just where you see problems or decisions that will have to be made. Please go ahead.



FEDERAL TAX SERVICE HEAD MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: The process of closing down these businesses is proceeding apace. During the first four months of this year the number of businesses involved in organised gambling decreased by 42 percent. The number of existing gambling establishments has fallen by 43 percent. In terms of revenues, the difference that this will make for regional budgets is negligible.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: Roughly how much does this represent in relation to total revenues? I know this is just an approximate figure, but nonetheless.


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: Regional budget revenues from gambling amount to only 0.6 percent.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: In other words, it is insignificant even at a time of financial crisis.


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: That is absolutely right. In addition, six regions of the Russian Federation provide 56 percent of these revenues, namely Moscow, Moscow Region, Samara, Yekaterinburg and Krasnodar regions. And St Petersburg. The others receive revenues that amount to less than 1 percent of the regional budgets. For them, this amount is completely insignificant.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: And what are the figures for the big cities?


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: In large cities the numbers are also very small, just a tenth of a percent, because the budgets ...


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: The budgets are big, so even for their consolidated budgets we are still talking about small amounts.


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: A very small amount, so revenue is not the crucial issue. In recent years these budget revenues have declined, as have the number of businesses and the number of employees. We are often asked how many people are employed in this business. The statistics show that the number is no more than 60,000 people. And it is easy to tinker with such figures. Usually what is meant is related businesses.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: First of all, this does include related businesses. Secondly, we are determined to strictly organise these activities – not close them down in Russia, but rather set up special zones where gambling will be permitted. As soon as they settle down there they can do as much gambling business as they want. And now the process has been set in motion. I understand that people have already been allotted parcels of land and started work on construction in some places. So I think that we will also be able to handle the social consequences that result from changing the rules concerning gambling.


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: Yes, the Federal Tax Service is ready to manage the business in these zones. We can organise such management either through special inspections or special units that we can put together in the relevant regional offices. We know about this as this was China’s experience: we have studied carefully what they did and it should work effectively.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: There is another issue. We are frequently asked if this change of rules and the introduction of a more rigorous approach to the conduct of the gambling business in our country could result in some of this business simply going underground. What do you think about this?


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: I think that the regions should have their say here, since under the Federal law control lies for the most part with the regional authorities. For example, at present 22 regions of the Russian Federation have banned such activities because the law gives them this right; 27 regions have now restricted it. And they have different instruments at their disposal, including law enforcement agencies, to detect such activities and take action against illegal ones. The organisers of this business run very serious risks, because these activities have been classified as illegal and accordingly the penalties are very serious.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: So in other words any gambling activities that do not have a state permit will be treated as a crime.


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: That is absolutely right.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: But along with this such activities may be conducted in designated places, within the zones to be established, according to the rules laid out, and people can keep whatever profits they accrue thereby. It means these activities will be conducted within legal frames set out by the state interests.


MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: Yes – and with the monitoring and assistance of the Federal Tax Service.


DMITRY MEDVEDEV: Of course, under the vigilant eye of the Federal Tax Service. Good. Then I would like you to continue to monitor this process, bearing in mind that on June 30, 2009 gambling institutions will close down their operations, and in the next month the map will be completely redrawn. It is your job to oversee this process.



MIKHAIL MOKRETSOV: It is.


http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/text/speeches/2009/05/05/2019_type82913_215874.shtml


December 30, 2006
22:00


Vladimir Putin signed a new law amending the government regulation of the gambling business.


The federal law restricts gambling in Russia to several “gambling zones” across the country. Outside these zones, only bookmaking and pari-mutuels will be allowed.



Gambling zones will be established beyond the borders of existing inhabited areas; land there will be for lease or for sale, depending on users’ intentions.




http://www.kremlin.ru/eng/text/news/2006/12/116466.shtml

[Poppytry]

Ukraine is in a massive crisis.

At least they have a hot prime minister :cool:

[ev]

Due to the current economic conditions in Ukraine, I think that it would have been better if they just expropriated the gambling industry, they could use the money on things like social welfare, job building etc. and reduce taxes for the working class to make their lives a little better.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

@MarxistLeninist

Dude, that just kills the flow of the thread... If you're quoting something from a link you posted, just give enough to get the feel...