Native Americans

[Bud Struggle]

Interesting website: http://www.mexica-movement.org/ (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.mexica-movement.org/)

They make the point that "we" (us white European people) can't have a clue about defining who the people that lived in the "Americas" before the European invasion were all about.

They kindly seek to define themselves--not in terms of neo-European ideals, but of their own. Now exactly Communist--but then again, Communism is a European concept in itself.

Interesting ideology. I kind of wish these guys won the battle for the world--not us.

[FreeFocus]

I disagree with a lot of what the Mexica Movement believes, but generally I respect them. Their political theory and understanding is not as informed and developed as it should be IMO.

[Robert]

Ironic that I was getting ready to start a thread on Zapata, a revolutionary I do respect, when along comes your thread Tom, with a link to a page featuring none other than Emiliano front and center.

I don't think these guys have thought things through very well. I think I know what they are trying to say, but it doesn't make a lot of sense.


We reject all European divisions of our continent.
We reject the artificial border divisions of our people.

[Bud Struggle]

Ironic that I was getting ready to start a thread on Zapata, a revolutionary I do respect, when along comes your thread Tom, with a link to a page featuring none other than Emiliano front and center.


Indeed there are worthwile Revolutionary people out there. Emiliano is the man. THERE'S a Revolutionary. Celebrate him and I would think of being a part of RevLeft. Keep reveling in Stalin and Hoxha and your "abortion or nothing" rules and I'm happy here in OI.

You know Brother Robert, you and I may be the only REAL Revolutionaries here on on RevLeft. :thumbup:

[Robert]

you and I may be the only REAL Revolutionaries here on on RevLeft.

Uh oh, we're gonna get mail.:lol:

[FreeMan]

MexicanMovement can keep their racist trash ideology. It doesn't take much to see it.

[Robert]

MexicanMovement can keep their racist trash ideology.

You don't agree, then, that historically disadvantaged ethnic groups cannot be "racist" because they have no power? I hear that from time to time and want to give it fair consideration.

[Plagueround]

They raise a lot of interesting and true points, but their goals and mission seems a bit confused. As much as I embrace the struggle for the recognition and rights of indigenous people, a counter campaign to paint Europeans as the true illegals is probably not going to do much good. I also don't like the rejection of people who have a history of being sympathetic and fighting for indigenous people simply for having European ancestry. For many North American tribes I've researched, being a member of the tribe had absolutely nothing to do with blood; people who wanted to be members of the tribe were accepted regardless.

[RGacky3]

Now exactly Communist--but then again, Communism is a European concept in itself.


No its not, thats like saying freedom is a european concept.


Celebrate him and I would think of being a part of RevLeft. Keep reveling in Stalin and Hoxha and your "abortion or nothing" rules and I'm happy here in OI.


Oh oh oh, please join us Please please please.:rolleyes:

[Bud Struggle]

No its not, thats like saying freedom is a european concept.


Communism as an economic philosophy is certainly a European concept. So in many ways is an ideal like "freedom." Did Native Americans have anything approaching what we would consider freedom today? Did they have slavery? Were women considered property?

I'm not saying the Native American way was bad--but it was different.

[RGacky3]

Communism as an economic philosophy is certainly a European concept. So in many ways is an ideal like "freedom." Did Native Americans have anything approaching what we would consider freedom today? Did they have slavery? Were women considered property?

I'm not saying the Native American way was bad--but it was different.

Communism is a word to describe some principles, the economic philosophy your thinking of is probably marxism.

Did native Americans have freedom? Some did, some did'nt.

Principles are universal, just like morality, everyone has a set, communism, the concept of it, is'nt "european".

[Bud Struggle]

Communism is a word to describe some principles, the economic philosophy your thinking of is probably marxism.


Fair enough.

[Raúl Duke]

Interesting website: http://www.mexica-movement.org/ (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.mexica-movement.org/)

They make the point that "we" (us white European people) can't have a clue about defining who the people that lived in the "Americas" before the European invasion were all about.

They kindly seek to define themselves--not in terms of neo-European ideals, but of their own. Now exactly Communist--but then again, Communism is a European concept in itself.

Interesting ideology. I kind of wish these guys won the battle for the world--not us.

That website looks more aimed towards Mexicans (especially Chicanos and Mexican immigrants in the U.S.) then indigenous people of the Americas as a whole. I doubt they are interested in this kind of stuff per se. Plus, it uses racial contexts to define (or specifically eliminate) the term hispanic/Latino. This kind of stuff wouldn't be popular in certain regions of South America and in the entire Caribbean; where hispanics have little indigenous blood and/or are more African or European in their racial heritage. These people (especially of the caribbean) do not consider themselves "European."


MexicaMovement can keep their racist trash ideology. It doesn't take much to see it.
You don't agree, then, that historically disadvantaged ethnic groups cannot be "racist" because they have no power? I hear that from time to time and want to give it fair consideration.While the poster isn't necesarily saying that indigenous people of the Americas are racist but stating that this movement's ideas (ideology) is.

In a sense, he's right. This movement places lots of emphasize on race (native american/indigenous american) and claims that "Europeans are illegals."

Amongst the left, at least the anarchist one, the line about immigration
has been mostly "no borders!"
To claim that "No, the European/White settlers are the real illegals" is a type a claim that could justify "kicking them out" or possibly some type atorcity (ethnic cleansing). Although I doubt that the movement will be able to get to a position of power so they'll probably never be able to do either.

[Plagueround]

Communism as an economic philosophy is certainly a European concept. So in many ways is an ideal like "freedom." Did Native Americans have anything approaching what we would consider freedom today?

Yes and no.


Did they have slavery?

Yes and no.


Were women considered property?


Yes and no. Because, In all cases, you're attributing broad, sweeping generalizations, as if native american society was a single homogeneous entity with one set of rules. This isn't true of our society and it wasn't of theirs. However, if you're setting out to imply they didn't have any of these things and that our society is morally or philosophically superior, you would also be wrong in making that judgment as well.

[Bud Struggle]

However, if you're setting out to imply they didn't have any of these things and that our society is morally or philosophically superior, you would also be wrong in making that judgment as well.

Not in the least. I'm just showing that the NAs had different ways of interpreting human nature, human responsibility and human freedom. No judgments implied.

[Dr Mindbender]

If you believe the mormon version of events, then the native americans are descended from middle eastern jews.