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View Full Version : Libertas - Declan Gangley and the New enemies.



pastradamus
10th May 2009, 13:05
At face value, This might just look like another seemingly typical thread about Irish politics. It however concerns Europe and most importantly the future of the EU in its entirety.

Libertas is a political party founded around the time of the recent Lisbon Treaty Debacle. They began life as a lobby group who opposed the Treaty and were founded by the billionaire Businessman Declan Ganley.
I remember when I first heard of or seen Declan Ganley when I was sitting at home watching the Usual RTÉ evening news. Ganley struck me from the getgo due to his opposition to the Lisbon treaty - something which every Socialist In Ireland was against, I wondered who this group "Libertas" were and what were they about? and Who is this Ganley Character?

I found the most interesting aspect about Ganley to be his strong English accent, he was Born in Watford in the UK of Irish Parents, though he currently is living in Ireland and has done for many years now.

Ganley's business background is one of the Shadiest elements of his background. Ganley owns a communications business known as RIVADA Ltd, In the USA they are known as RIVADA Pacific amongst many other names with Strong ties to the Carlyle Group (George Bush is/was a share-holder)- of which United Defence is part of (creators of the Bradley Armoured Personel Carrier). So what do Rivada do? Rivada Supply communications devices to the US Coast guard, National guard - but also to the US army destined for Iraq and Afghanistan - Ganley has often tried to weasle his way out of these accusations but financial and transportational facts and costings prove otherwise.

Ganley and his Libertas Cronies have influenced just about every EU Parliment and are planning to create a Europe-wide political party.

He's just another Neo-Liberal Businessman working the political angle? No, he and his party represent a real threat to the working class, more so than anything I can think of in Europe. Ganleys sole political Interest Sector is Europe - NOT LOCAL POLITICS. This is proof in my opinion where Gangleys Interests sit. Not just that but he uses his huge wealth to fund a massive political campagin for a party who basically appeared overnight. In Ireland there are legal limits on how much one can spend in elections and these must be declared. Libertas Declared a figure which observers felt quite shocked by - that is to say Libertas spent a lot,lot more than declared.

Moreover, Libertas found itself once again stuck in controversy in 2009. This occured When the European Parliament to rescind its earlier recognition of Libertas as a political party. The reasoning for this was that under EU regulations, Libertas required the signatures of seven members of national parliaments in order that it could to register and become eligible to receive EU funding of around EUR200,000. Of the seven signatories supplied by Libertas, two, Igor Grazin of Estonia and Mincho Kuminev of Bulgaria, denied signing any documents in support of Libertas. Why did these people so viciously deny signing the documents? This is common Practice for any new EU entrant and its not as if the two endorsed the party itself.

Back to financies again. Ganley seems to be playing cat and Mouse with the British revenue service I suspect. When in an interview with Irish Minister Dick Roach, Roach said that Ganley stated that his nationality was British on company registration forms until 2006.Ganley Stated this is a British government data input error which aroused tax-evasion suspection amongst Irish and European Publications.

Ganley and indeed Libertas as whole are Involved in political mud-slinging to a sick degree. A level of politics that leaves a bad taste in the mouth - no matter where one stands on the question of the EU or indeed on any ideology. Ganley is currently running in Irelands North-West constituancy against politician Marian Harkin. In this Rural, Catholic Enclave of Ireland the Abortion issue is something which one does not mention as you are guarenteed to lose a lot of your voters if you say you are pro-choice.
Ganley suggested that while Harkin may personally be against abortion, she is sitting with a party that supports abortion policies and advocates the introduction of euthanasia. Harkin, an independent MEP, sits with the Liberal Group in the European Parliament. She says the group allows her to follow her conscience on this issue.
Harkin claims that Ganley’s cohorts on the ground have been saying outright that she is pro-abortion - a charge Ganley’s movement denies. She later challenged him on the abortion stance of Libertas candidates in the Netherlands and in Spain. They bounced back and forth on this for a while. The exchange has stopped now and neither side came out of it looking very well, this not being a topic, once politicised, that is open to nuance.
But, arguably, it is Harkin’s name that has been strongly linked with the abortion question in people’s minds. Its not about abortions, politics or anything else here - Its simply about lies and mudslinging. He also insulted every Leftist group in Ireland who were honestly trying to fight Libson when Libertas once again put the abortion issue on the table. They openly said, wrote and published posters concerning abortion, insitsing that abortion will come into Ireland if the treaty passed - this is a complete lie as nothing mentioned in the treaty concerned abortion, Libertas just wanted the Catholic Conservative vote by once again bullshitting its way through life. I find these open lies and unashamed propaganda absolutely disgusting.

Smart moves, I suppose. If you think that sort of mud-slinging is good for politics.
But it does not sit well with someone who claims to be taking on Brussels on the grand themes of accountability, transparency and responsibility.

Libertas as an Entity are growing and we in the left will have to grow to combat them successfully. Ganley has already launched Libertas Lativa,Malta, Italy and many others already making avail of his large business capital. Though I must say in closing, from my point of view it would greatly benefit Ganley to have supported the recently defeated Lisbon Treaty because its pro-business essentially. So I reckon Ganleys friends in the US had something to say about this Libertas parties creation.

Cumannach
10th May 2009, 21:53
I can't stand the sight of the creepy, cryptic fucker.

Dóchas
10th May 2009, 21:57
so the real question is.... do we vote yes or no to Lisbon

STJ
10th May 2009, 23:10
I think no.

Andropov
10th May 2009, 23:15
Ganley is a slimey scumbag.
Did anyone else hear that he made his money making weaponry or the like?

PRC-UTE
11th May 2009, 00:43
I think his name has only one 'g'.

He's a creepy fucker awright. Seems to go out of his way to be shady, even when it's not necessary.

pastradamus
11th May 2009, 13:19
I think his name has only one 'g'.

He's a creepy fucker awright. Seems to go out of his way to be shady, even when it's not necessary.

Haha, Yeah. Im always spelling titles incorrectly! :lol:

He sends shiver through me when he speaks- and for some reason I feel unclean. He's spouts lies, misinformation and disgusting propaganda needlessly.

pastradamus
11th May 2009, 14:25
so the real question is.... do we vote yes or no to Lisbon

Well its a total NO being endorsed by the Left in Ireland. Numerous groups such as The Socialist party, The SWP, Sinn Fein and the WSM are all endorsing a "no" vote -very correctly in my view.

Libertas are the group endorsing a "no" vote albeit for all the wrong reasons. As I've said I cant put together in my mind why Ganley wants a No vote.

pastradamus
11th May 2009, 14:32
Ganley is a slimey scumbag.
Did anyone else hear that he made his money making weaponry or the like?

Its Unclear whether he is involved in the manufacture of weaponary. Though he his company http://www.rivada.com/7130879/index.htm (rivada networks) works with the carlyle group (who make the Bradley APC) and RIVADA themselves provide Communications to the US & British army for both their fighting vessles and Land Vehicles.

As a footnote, I would like to say I once accused Declan Gangley and indeed libertas of the said offences (with a great deal of documented evidence) on Politics.ie and my post was removed as Libertas members spoke of "legal action" which frightened the admin into removing my post. This has happened numerous members and posters on that site so I left it in the Interest of free speech.

Cumannach
11th May 2009, 16:33
There was an unusually good article on Indymedia about this if anybody hasn't already seen it.

BOZG
12th May 2009, 03:17
As a footnote, I would like to say I once accused Declan Gangley and indeed libertas of the said offences (with a great deal of documented evidence) on Politics.ie and my post was removed as Libertas members spoke of "legal action" which frightened the admin into removing my post. This has happened numerous members and posters on that site so I left it in the Interest of free speech.

Considering that the Admin and owner of P.ie, David Cochrane, is a PRO for Libertas, it's not particularly suprising. Cochrane has repeatedly removed content attacking Libertas.

It's also important to point out that Ganley initially made his money on the gangsterism that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union. He made big money by buying up public services at knock-down prices. While he almost definitely has links to the US weapons industry, even if he didn't, the vast majority of his business interests are related to US capitalism and I think you're correct to question whether certain influences in US big business gave him a push in creating Libertas. A "strong" EU would have a negative effect on his commercial interests from a personal perspective, nevermind how it would affect those he has links with.

Ganley and Libertas are definitely something to keep an eye on but I think you're exaggerating their strength to a certain extent. There's no doubt that they have a huge presense in the media but I sincerely question how strong they are in the eyes of the public. The media have completely exaggerated their importance and quite consciously in the Lisbon campaign (along with Coir), to cut across the arguments that the left were putting out.

Andropov
12th May 2009, 11:14
Anyone see him on Vincent Brown last night?
He is so polished and comfortable infront of a camera, its slightly unnerving when you see the incompetancey of the FF/FG representatives.
Is it only a matter of time before Libertas start running in Local Government elections?

Cumannach
12th May 2009, 11:15
Alright, for anyone who hasn't seen it, this is the article from Indymedia, I don't know by who;

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

pastradamus
12th May 2009, 14:27
Considering that the Admin and owner of P.ie, David Cochrane, is a PRO for Libertas, it's not particularly suprising. Cochrane has repeatedly removed content attacking Libertas.

Fuck it. Never knew that. Im absolutely sick shit of that place anyway. Havent gone back there for a long, long time now and I dont intend on doing so. Its full of people who think they're going to personally win an election some day.


It's also important to point out that Ganley initially made his money on the gangsterism that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union. He made big money by buying up public services at knock-down prices. While he almost definitely has links to the US weapons industry, even if he didn't, the vast majority of his business interests are related to US capitalism and I think you're correct to question whether certain influences in US big business gave him a push in creating Libertas. A "strong" EU would have a negative effect on his commercial interests from a personal perspective, nevermind how it would affect those he has links with.

Excellant point.


Ganley and Libertas are definitely something to keep an eye on but I think you're exaggerating their strength to a certain extent. There's no doubt that they have a huge presense in the media but I sincerely question how strong they are in the eyes of the public. The media have completely exaggerated their importance and quite consciously in the Lisbon campaign (along with Coir), to cut across the arguments that the left were putting out.

I dont think im exaggerating their presence. In one year Declan Ganley has gained more media coverage than all the real leftist movements put together. In Ireland as with many countries, the media to an extent dictates public opinion and its only a matter of time before Ganley becomes a house hold name (if he alreadys isn't). Popularity through the media and press are something that turns undecided voters in a direction.

Dimentio
12th May 2009, 14:32
At face value, This might just look like another seemingly typical thread about Irish politics. It however concerns Europe and most importantly the future of the EU in its entirety.

Libertas is a political party founded around the time of the recent Lisbon Treaty Debacle. They began life as a lobby group who opposed the Treaty and were founded by the billionaire Businessman Declan Ganley.
I remember when I first heard of or seen Declan Ganley when I was sitting at home watching the Usual RTÉ evening news. Ganley struck me from the getgo due to his opposition to the Lisbon treaty - something which every Socialist In Ireland was against, I wondered who this group "Libertas" were and what were they about? and Who is this Ganley Character?

I found the most interesting aspect about Ganley to be his strong English accent, he was Born in Watford in the UK of Irish Parents, though he currently is living in Ireland and has done for many years now.

Ganley's business background is one of the Shadiest elements of his background. Ganley owns a communications business known as RIVADA Ltd, In the USA they are known as RIVADA Pacific amongst many other names with Strong ties to the Carlyle Group (George Bush is/was a share-holder)- of which United Defence is part of (creators of the Bradley Armoured Personel Carrier). So what do Rivada do? Rivada Supply communications devices to the US Coast guard, National guard - but also to the US army destined for Iraq and Afghanistan - Ganley has often tried to weasle his way out of these accusations but financial and transportational facts and costings prove otherwise.

Ganley and his Libertas Cronies have influenced just about every EU Parliment and are planning to create a Europe-wide political party.

He's just another Neo-Liberal Businessman working the political angle? No, he and his party represent a real threat to the working class, more so than anything I can think of in Europe. Ganleys sole political Interest Sector is Europe - NOT LOCAL POLITICS. This is proof in my opinion where Gangleys Interests sit. Not just that but he uses his huge wealth to fund a massive political campagin for a party who basically appeared overnight. In Ireland there are legal limits on how much one can spend in elections and these must be declared. Libertas Declared a figure which observers felt quite shocked by - that is to say Libertas spent a lot,lot more than declared.

Moreover, Libertas found itself once again stuck in controversy in 2009. This occured When the European Parliament to rescind its earlier recognition of Libertas as a political party. The reasoning for this was that under EU regulations, Libertas required the signatures of seven members of national parliaments in order that it could to register and become eligible to receive EU funding of around EUR200,000. Of the seven signatories supplied by Libertas, two, Igor Grazin of Estonia and Mincho Kuminev of Bulgaria, denied signing any documents in support of Libertas. Why did these people so viciously deny signing the documents? This is common Practice for any new EU entrant and its not as if the two endorsed the party itself.

Back to financies again. Ganley seems to be playing cat and Mouse with the British revenue service I suspect. When in an interview with Irish Minister Dick Roach, Roach said that Ganley stated that his nationality was British on company registration forms until 2006.Ganley Stated this is a British government data input error which aroused tax-evasion suspection amongst Irish and European Publications.

Ganley and indeed Libertas as whole are Involved in political mud-slinging to a sick degree. A level of politics that leaves a bad taste in the mouth - no matter where one stands on the question of the EU or indeed on any ideology. Ganley is currently running in Irelands North-West constituancy against politician Marian Harkin. In this Rural, Catholic Enclave of Ireland the Abortion issue is something which one does not mention as you are guarenteed to lose a lot of your voters if you say you are pro-choice.
Ganley suggested that while Harkin may personally be against abortion, she is sitting with a party that supports abortion policies and advocates the introduction of euthanasia. Harkin, an independent MEP, sits with the Liberal Group in the European Parliament. She says the group allows her to follow her conscience on this issue.
Harkin claims that Ganley’s cohorts on the ground have been saying outright that she is pro-abortion - a charge Ganley’s movement denies. She later challenged him on the abortion stance of Libertas candidates in the Netherlands and in Spain. They bounced back and forth on this for a while. The exchange has stopped now and neither side came out of it looking very well, this not being a topic, once politicised, that is open to nuance.
But, arguably, it is Harkin’s name that has been strongly linked with the abortion question in people’s minds. Its not about abortions, politics or anything else here - Its simply about lies and mudslinging. He also insulted every Leftist group in Ireland who were honestly trying to fight Libson when Libertas once again put the abortion issue on the table. They openly said, wrote and published posters concerning abortion, insitsing that abortion will come into Ireland if the treaty passed - this is a complete lie as nothing mentioned in the treaty concerned abortion, Libertas just wanted the Catholic Conservative vote by once again bullshitting its way through life. I find these open lies and unashamed propaganda absolutely disgusting.

Smart moves, I suppose. If you think that sort of mud-slinging is good for politics.
But it does not sit well with someone who claims to be taking on Brussels on the grand themes of accountability, transparency and responsibility.

Libertas as an Entity are growing and we in the left will have to grow to combat them successfully. Ganley has already launched Libertas Lativa,Malta, Italy and many others already making avail of his large business capital. Though I must say in closing, from my point of view it would greatly benefit Ganley to have supported the recently defeated Lisbon Treaty because its pro-business essentially. So I reckon Ganleys friends in the US had something to say about this Libertas parties creation.

Sounds like Europe has got its own version of Ron Paul.

BOZG
14th May 2009, 13:19
I dont think im exaggerating their presence. In one year Declan Ganley has gained more media coverage than all the real leftist movements put together. In Ireland as with many countries, the media to an extent dictates public opinion and its only a matter of time before Ganley becomes a house hold name (if he alreadys isn't). Popularity through the media and press are something that turns undecided voters in a direction.

No, they definitely have a huge media presence, far more than the left groups, precisely because Libertas fundamentally represent the same politics as FF & FG, albeit that they side with US capitalism over European capitalism. The media would much rather push Libertas than push any of the left-alternatives. I did a lot of canvassing around the Lisbon treaty and I do a lot of canvassing on campaigns and issues in general and I've never heard anyone raise Libertas, even just to ask about them, nevermind to support them. We've been canvassing on steroids in the past few months in the run up to the election and nobody has mentioned them yet either. I don't think they really exist outside of the media circus and while I accept that the media can definitely play a role in influencing, I don't think it's working at the moment.

PeaderO'Donnell
14th May 2009, 13:28
I think his name has only one 'g'.

He's a creepy fucker awright. Seems to go out of his way to be shady, even when it's not necessary.

I spoke to one of their supporters.

Youth Defence meets the PDs.

BOZG
14th May 2009, 13:34
I spoke to one of their supporters.

Youth Defence meets the PDs.

Their position is social policies is interesting, whatever little they have of one, obviously. They're certainly trying to tap into the Catholic reactionary vote playing up the issue of who should control social policy. I wonder if they'll actually put out any definitive position on it.

Dimentio
14th May 2009, 21:03
No, they definitely have a huge media presence, far more than the left groups, precisely because Libertas fundamentally represent the same politics as FF & FG, albeit that they side with US capitalism over European capitalism. The media would much rather push Libertas than push any of the left-alternatives. I did a lot of canvassing around the Lisbon treaty and I do a lot of canvassing on campaigns and issues in general and I've never heard anyone raise Libertas, even just to ask about them, nevermind to support them. We've been canvassing on steroids in the past few months in the run up to the election and nobody has mentioned them yet either. I don't think they really exist outside of the media circus and while I accept that the media can definitely play a role in influencing, I don't think it's working at the moment.

They remind of the Swedish party "Junilistan", a right-centrist "eurosceptical" party which has'nt accomplished anything since 2004.

L.J.Solidarity
18th May 2009, 01:51
After failing to get enough signatures to get their own anarcho-capitalist section on the ballot in Germany, Libertas is now endorsing "AUF-Christen für Deutschland" (Work, Environment, Family - Christians for Germany), a bunch of fundamentalist nutjobs who split away from the even crazier Party of Bible-Abiding Christians last year. They're homophobic and misogynistic, and one of their leaders is an ultra-catholic who thinks Harry Potter books promote black magic and must be banned. However they're trying to present themselves to voters as rather moderate conservatives at the moment, but fortunately I think they're not going to fool many people. Luckily there's no prominent "christian right" in Germany, most fundamentalists seem to quietly vote for the mainstream conservatives (CDU) or keep out of politics altogether as Jehovah's Witnesses do.
For Libertas this seems to be a rather stupid move, I wonder why they didn't ally themselves to the new "centre-right" Free Voters party, which gained 10% in the last state legislature elections in its stronghold Bavaria and seems to have a hard time deciding whether they want to be an ultra-liberal alternative to the FDP or rather another conservative party for farmers and the rural petty-bourgeoisie (their main voter base so far).