Communist University 2009

[Die Neue Zeit]

Communist University 2009



August 8-15, South London. Book Now!

The CPGB's annual school - the Communist University - is different. It features sharp clashes of opinion on the revolutionary left, not dull lectures by left 'professors'. This educates the audience and the speakers. And who can doubt that the entire left needs some serious re-thinking? Those confirmed thus far are:

* Lars T Lih (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/750/rediscovering.html) - Author of the excellent Lenin Rediscovered: What Is to Be Done? in Context (http://books.google.ca/books?id=8AVUvEUsdCgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0)
* Hillel Tickin - Editor of Critique
* Boris Kagarlitsky (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/648/russia.htm) - Russian Marxist, author of Empire of the periphery: Russia and the world system
* Moshe Machover - Israeli anti-Zionist and Matzpen founder
* Lionel Sims - Author and member of the Radical Anthropology Group
* Yassamine Mather - CPGB, exiled Iranian revolutionary
* Mike Macnair - CPGB, author of Revolutionary Strategy (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8682919597603842499)
* Jack Conrad - CPGB, author of Fantastic Reality: Marxism and the politics of religion
* Jean-Michel Edwin - Marxist involved in the NPA in France

Location, prices etc

Raymont Hall, 63 Wickham Road, New Cross, London SE4 - click here (http://www.multimap.com/maps/?zoom=16&countryCode=GB&qs=SE41LX) for a map
15 min walk from New Cross tube station (East London line)
5 min walk from Brockley railway station - there are trains leaving London Bridge Station every 10-15 minutes)

Full week, incl. self-catering accommodation in single ensuite rooms - £160 (£130 unwaged; £85 for comrades prepared to share a room)
First weekend, incl. one night's accommodation - £35 (£20);
Day - £10 (£5); session - £5 (£3);
Whole week, no accommodation: £60 (£30).

To book your place, send a cheque or postal order for a minimum of £30 to BCM Box 928, London WC1N 3XX (please mark the back with 'CU 20089'). Alternatively, you can use your debit or credit card to pay via PayPal. Just click the button below - and make sure you tell that this payment is for CU.

[Tower of Bebel]

Lars T Lih sounds interesting. However, I hope it's not just about WITBD? in context. A discussion about the NPA seems also interesting. Even though we (CWI Belgium) happen to live next to the French we don't always know much about the NPA.

[black magick hustla]

Instead of asking for money that should host people in their homes.

[Devrim]

Instead of asking for money that should host people in their homes.

To be honest, Marmot, I don't know if it would be possible for them. They are a small group. I have heard they have about 60 members. If we imagine that a third of that membership is in London that would be 20 people. How many people do you think they are expecting for something like this.

The accommodation seems cheap; £85 for a week if you are willing to share. That includes the ticket price of £60, so it means you can get a weeks accommodation in London for £25. It is not bad.

Devrim

[PRC-UTE]

looks interesting. I wonder what kind of turnout they'll get

[ev]

security profiles everyone who goes there

[Die Neue Zeit]

Isn't that true for just about every far-left meeting, like Marxism 2009 or CWI Summer School?

[h0m0revolutionary]

To be honest, Marmot, I don't know if it would be possible for them. They are a small group. I have heard they have about 60 members. If we imagine that a third of that membership is in London that would be 20 people. How many people do you think they are expecting for something like this.

The accommodation seems cheap; £85 for a week if you are willing to share. That includes the ticket price of £60, so it means you can get a weeks accommodation in London for £25. It is not bad.

Devrim

They have less than 20.
They have a youth group called Communist Students, bringing them to about 30.. if that.

[Devrim]

They have less than 20.
They have a youth group called Communist Students, bringing them to about 30.. if that.

Which would only reinforce my point surely. The fact that so few people manage to produce a weekly paper also says as well when compared to some groups.

Devrim

[h0m0revolutionary]

Which would only reinforce my point surely. The fact that so few people manage to produce a weekly paper also says as well when compared to some groups.

Oh yeah comrade, don't take me wrong I wasn't attacking anything you said :).

I guess it's of note that such a small orginisation can manage to get a weekly paper out and one that is, comparatively, well read too.

But by their own admission they don't target the working class, they target only the existing left. The weekly worker is read only by the existing left to see what the left has been up to.

It's a gossip rag.

[Devrim]

I guess it's of note that such a small orginisation can manage to get a weekly paper out and one that is, comparatively, well read too.

Yes, it is really impressive. We have a similar number of people in the UK and publish a monthly as well as a quarterly magazine. I believe the AF has about five times as many people, and they don't have a weekly.


But by their own admission they don't target the working class, they target only the existing left.

I think that is unfair to them. Most groups sell their publications to workers who are at least politicised enough to buy left wing publications. To a certain extent they are recognising reality.


The weekly worker is read only by the existing left to see what the left has been up to.

It's a gossip rag.

I think that is a bit unfair to. I understand what they are trying to do even if I don't agree with it.

Devrim

[BobKKKindle$]

If a group is so small and has so few resources that it has to charge people 85 pounds to attend an event that lasts a week, then it does raise the question of why they even bother to put on such an event, especially in light of how many people are likely to attend, and the fact that those who do attend are probably going to be part of the left already. The point of Marxism, which costs less than half as much, is partly to provide answers to people who are interested in left-wing ideas but still have questions about key issues and aren't yet politically active, and I just don't see this happening with this event, especially if you look at some of the videos of last year's speeches. It really seems that the CPGB would do better if they directed their efforts towards things that will actually give them a progressive role as part of the working class instead of focusing solely on spreading rumors about other left-wing groups and engaging in intellectual masturbation.


Yes, it is really impressive.

Surely the biggest prize of all has to go to the WRP?

[Die Neue Zeit]

The point of Marxism, which costs less than half as much, is partly to provide answers to people who are interested in left-wing ideas but still have questions about key issues and aren't yet politically active

Marxism 2009 is, in my opinion, for beginners.


I just don't see this happening with this event, especially if you look at some of the videos of last year's speeches.

To be fair, they only released some of the videos (for some reason they couldn't record the other key speeches). I sure hope they properly record the profoundly true and important words of Lars T. Lih and Mike Macnair, being where I am!


It really seems that the CPGB would do better if they directed their efforts towards things that will actually give them a progressive role as part of the working class instead of focusing solely on spreading rumors about other left-wing groups and engaging in intellectual masturbation.

Oh boy, the typical anti-CPGB slander, especially the last four words. :rolleyes:

"Without revolutionary programme there can be no revolutionary movement," said Lenin in WITBD on the programmatic history of the international proletariat's first vanguard party (http://www.revleft.com/vb/sozialdemokratische-partei-deutschlands-t79754/index.html) - up to and including the Erfurt Program. Also, "the educators need educating," said Wilhelm Liebknecht. This is the purpose of Communist University 2009.

[Devrim]

If a group is so small and has so few resources that it has to charge people 85 pounds to attend an event that lasts a week, then it does raise the question of why they even bother to put on such an event,

Actually they are charging £60, which compares to the SWP charging £45 for Marxism. Yes, the SWP meeting is 25% cheaper, but I am not sure that that makes any substantial difference.

Some people on various threads have argued that it is wrong to charge for meetings like these. While I don not necessarily agree with them, I can understand their point.

Bob's to me seems to me a little obscure. Where is the dividing line? Would it be OK, for example, to price a meeting at £50, or £55, or would that too raise the question of 'why they even bother'.

The CPGB's meeting is actually cheaper for the unwaged, £30 compared to £32. Does that mean that they should bother whereas people in jobs shouldn't.

In reality there is no point at all here, just an attack upon the CPGB because they have the affrontry to criticise the SWP.


especially in light of how many people are likely to attend, and the fact that those who do attend are probably going to be part of the left already.

People who attend the SWP's Marxism are more likely than not to be people who consider themselves socialists. You don't get many passing punters at a week long £45 event.


The point of Marxism, which costs less than half as much

Even using your own figures £45 pounds is not 'less than half as much' as £85. Don't they teach you any mathamatics at that elite university you attend?


The point of Marxism,..., is partly to provide answers to people who are interested in left-wing ideas but still have questions about key issues

If the SWP wants to aim its meeting at its own membership that is really its own business.


It really seems that the CPGB would do better if they directed their efforts towards things that will actually give them a progressive role as part of the working class instead of focusing solely on spreading rumors about other left-wing groups and engaging in intellectual masturbation.

This is an absolute smear. The CPGB see themselves as working towards a regroupment of the left. In order to do this they believe it is neccesary to polemicise against other groups, clarify differences, and try to win people to their politics. It isn't a difficult concept really.

To the SWP this is reduced to 'spreading rumors about other left-wing groups'. It really is indicative of their organisation. I would presume that the leadership of the SWP have enough of a vague idea of Marxism to understand what the CPGB are doing. After all there were times when Lenin did a very similar thing. I am not so sure about the membership, but either they understand so little of the basic ideas and history of Marxism as to not understand what the CPGB are trying to do, or they do understand and just set out to smear them due to the fact that they criticise the SWP.

Both possibilities are pretty damning. Either the level of political understanding in the SWP is abysmally low, or it is a totally unprincipled way to deal with criticism. I can understand why an organisation like the SWP might ignore the CPGB, but to slander them is totally dishonest.

Devrim

[Devrim]

Surely the biggest prize of all has to go to the WRP?

No, the WRP were possibly the biggest group on the left at the time with thousands of members had had financial support from foreign states.

To me it is not as impressive as twenty people producing a weekly.

Devrim

[BobKKKindle$]

Actually they are charging £60, which compares to the SWP charging £45 for Marxism. Yes, the SWP meeting is 25% cheaper, but I am not sure that that makes any substantial difference.It's only 60 pounds if the people who are going have access to accommodation in London, which they would presumably want to be quite close to wherever the event is taking place, so I actually find it unlikely that all or even most of the working people who decide to go would be able to pay the 60 pounds option instead of a more expensive option. Even if this were not the case, 15 pounds is a substantial amount of money, and so the fact that Marxism is cheaper does make a difference, especially when you consider that accommodation is free, and the standard of meetings are far higher - I would much rather see David Harvey speak than a leader of the CPGB, for instance. If you are going to ask people to pay for a political meeting then quality is obviously key - it has to offer something more than your weekly branch meeting.


People who attend the SWP's Marxism are more likely than not to be people who consider themselves socialists. You don't get many passing punters at a week long £45 event.Not in my experience, of all the people that we've signed up on an individual basis, none of them are currently members of an existing organization, and I don't think many of them would describe themselves as socialists either - but they are coming to Marxism because they want to learn more.


If the SWP wants to aim its meeting at its own membership that is really its own business.I don't understand what you're trying to say. That's not the aim of Marxism.


This is an absolute smear. The CPGB see themselves as working towards a regroupment of the leftYou need to learn how to distinguish between what a group says their objectives are and what they actually do. It's quite clear from the way they behave that the CPGB are not interested in regrouping the left, because they have demonstrated a complete lack of concern for what it means to operate as part of a united front, especially when that united front involves individuals who do not see themselves as socialists. They persist in arguing that initiatives should have the term 'Marxist' attached to them, or used as part of their demands (consider the first meeting of 'Another Education is Possible' as an example) without explaining how this is going to affect the ability of those initiatives to achieve their demands, or the impact that this is going to have on people who do not know anything about Marxism or are hostile towards our movement. So no, I don't accept that I'm "slandering" the CPGB.


being where I am!

Have you ever met anyone from the CPGB, JR?

[Devrim]

It's only 60 pounds if the people who are going have access to accommodation in London, which they would presumably want to be quite close to wherever the event is taking place, so I actually find it unlikely that all or even most of the working people who decide to go would be able to pay the 60 pounds option instead of a more expensive option. Even if this were not the case, 15 pounds is a substantial amount of money, and so the fact that Marxism is cheaper does make a difference,

So Bob, where exactly is the dividing line? From your argument £45 is 'worth bothering with' and £60 isn't, it implies that there must be a line somewhere.

If you are right and £15 is a 'substantial amount of money', then the SWP is charging three 'substantial amounts of money' for entrance to its meeting. What would that say about your meeting?

Actually it is not that much. I can quite easily spend £15 in an afternoon in the pub, and I live in a poor country. What would it buy in London, a couple of beers and a packet of fags. The cheapest seat at Chelsea costs £39. Get a bit of perspective.


and the standard of meetings are far higher - I would much rather see David Harvey speak than a leader of the CPGB, for instance. If you are going to ask people to pay for a political meeting then quality is obviously key - it has to offer something more than your weekly branch meeting.

I suppose that is a matter of perspective. I would rather see somebody who was a political militant and you would rather see a university academic. That is your choice. I have never been to a CPGB meeting, but I have been to Marxism. In my opinion the level of discussion was awful, but this, of course, is subjective as is your opinion on the 'standard of meetings'.


Not in my experience, of all the people that we've signed up on an individual basis, none of them are currently members of an existing organization, and I don't think many of them would describe themselves as socialists either - but they are coming to Marxism because they want to learn more.

I presume that your experience relates to your elite university, so I won't be regarding it as general.


I don't understand what you're trying to say. That's not the aim of Marxism.

No, I didn't think that you would.


You need to learn how to distinguish between what a group says their objectives are and what they actually do. It's quite clear from the way they behave that the CPGB are not interested in regrouping the left, because they have demonstrated a complete lack of concern for what it means to operate as part of a united front, especially when that united front involves individuals who do not see themselves as socialists. They persist in arguing that initiatives should have the term 'Marxist' attached to them, or used as part of their demands (consider the first meeting of 'Another Education is Possible' as an example) without explaining how this is going to affect the ability of those initiatives to achieve their demands, or the impact that this is going to have on people who do not know anything about Marxism or are hostile towards our movement.

You need to learn what a 'united front' is as non of the front organisations that the SWP runs fits into that category as it has been traditionally defined in the Marxist movement. Apart from that though it is equally valid as a Marxist to reject all sorts of frontism, and still work for regroupment. I don't agree at all with the CPGB, but I can understand what they are trying to do. It seems to be beyond you.

What you are actually saying here is that they don't go along with the SWP's popular fronts and electoral alliances and have the affront to criticise them for it.

Devrim

[Die Neue Zeit]

I would much rather see David Harvey speak than a leader of the CPGB, for instance. If you are going to ask people to pay for a political meeting then quality is obviously key - it has to offer something more than your weekly branch meeting.

Um, do Lars T. Lih and Boris Kagarlitsky (who I think attends annually) ring a bell? :rolleyes:


I presume that your experience relates to your elite university, so I won't be regarding it as general.

Since Bob posted this publicly (a visitor message on my profile), he attends the same uni where CPGB comrade Mike Macnair himself lectures. :D


You need to learn what a 'united front' is as none of the front organisations that the SWP runs fits into that category as it has been traditionally defined in the Marxist movement. Apart from that though it is equally valid as a Marxist to reject all sorts of frontism, and still work for regroupment. I don't agree at all with the CPGB, but I can understand what they are trying to do. It seems to be beyond you.

What you are actually saying here is that they don't go along with the SWP's popular fronts and electoral alliances and have the affront to criticise them for it.

Devrim

Trotsky's concept of a "united front" was compromised from the outset by coalitionist suggestions, so compromised that I would suggest a new adjective to describe a proper workers-only "front."

The basic idea here is that such workers-only "front" should have as its core program the demands leading to the DOTP (legislative bodies are working bodies, public officials on average skilled workers' wages, full recallability, freedom of class-strugglist assembly and association for ordinary folks, people's militias, etc.)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Despite the viral attack on the CPGB's website (thus forcing them to use the blog format for the time being), CU 2009 is still on. :)

[Radical]

I think I'm gonna go.

[Pogue]

What are you people doing in my South London

[Manifesto]

Is the name really Communist University? Thats a bit straight forward.

[Radical]

Uhh, is anybody else going to this? I want to attend but it'll be pretty fucking boring on my own. I dont know ANYBODY from CPGB

I'm also planning on paying for the accomodation there too. Hit me up if your going!

[Q]

I don't have the money, else I'd be interested.

[Rory]

I actually attended part of the CPGB's day school in Sheffield in May(?). My advice, don't bother... It is purely intellectual masturbation by old men, who are given way too long to talk and fail to make any substantial points other than criticizing other parties.