Sexist language, and sexism in general

[RGacky3]

In the chitchat thread here I got a slap on the wrist for calling another guy a "pussy" for allowing himself to be dragged to a movie he did'nt want ot see by his girlfriend, then when informed that that word was offensive I said pussy whipped instead, but apparently that is offensive too.

Anyway heres my point. At what point does something become sexist? When I called the dude a pussy I was using the term the way most people use it, to call a guy a wimp. I was'nt trying to be deroggetory toward women, I was being derogetory toward the guy.

There are other things that some people consider sexist that I think is rediculous. For example, a man viewing a woman as a sex object. Whats wrong with that? Not every person in your life has to be respected and viewed in the same way. I view my barber as a hair cutting object, am I objectifying him? Some women view men as sex objects, or drink buying objects, are they objectifying them? Advertisers put up hot women in skimpy clothes on billboards because they are trying to sell products either to men who like hot women in skimpy clothes, or women who want to be attractive to men. The same goes for the male models.

Back to calling a dude a pussy. The reaoning that was given was that calling a guy a pussy was implying that pussy is wimpy, meaning women are wimpy. Which is strange when you think about it. Others said it could have come from pussy cat, and pussy cats are wimpy (really?). By reasoning is it does'nt matter where it comes from, there are no connotations now. Women use it for each other, for men, men use it for men, and women. Its not at all like the word "nigger" or even "****", because when you call a woman a "****" your attacking are as a woman (even that is debatable, because in some places its more like the word dickhead, inotherwords your a asshole), when you call her a pussy, your attacking her as a wimp.

So what are your thoughts on this. I have a feeling I'm gonna get attacked.

[Havet]

Let me start by trying to find an impartial definition of sexism:

"Sexism, a term coined in the mid-20th century, refers to the belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to or less valuable than the other. It can also refer to hatred of, or prejudice towards, either sex as a whole, or the application of stereotypes of masculinity in relation to men, or of femininity in relation to women."

So basically in your case you were not claiming a gender or sex was inferior or less valuable than other. However, it is debatable whether you could be applying a stereotype of masculinity in relation to men (eg: claiming all men were wimps if they let themselves drag to watch movies they didnt want to see with their girlfriends).

I dont think that at any point you were being derogatory towards women. I also agree with other things you exemplified as being ridiculous examples of sexism.

In any case, perhaps it would be better to get the guy to explain why he went to see the movie anyway? perhaps he did to because he thought he had a greater chance of getting laid after this? or because his girlfriend also does somethings she doesnt like sometimes to please him?

If he weren't able to explain why he went to see the movie after all, then i recommend calling him a wimp next time instead :D

[Nulono]

Is it also sexist to call a woman a dick?

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I'm not a wimp. I'm just not a dick either.

I have sympathized with your point of view throughout the whole thing but now I remember it all started because you were acting like a smartass gobshite to me.

Ban him!

[mikelepore]

Why do you have to call another person in the forum anything at all? You should say, "I disagree with your opinion for the following reasons...."

[Havet]

Why do you have to call another person in the forum anything at all? You should say, "I disagree with your opinion for the following reasons...."

well said

[RedAnarchist]

In the chitchat thread here I got a slap on the wrist for calling another guy a "pussy" for allowing himself to be dragged to a movie he did'nt want ot see by his girlfriend, then when informed that that word was offensive I said pussy whipped instead, but apparently that is offensive too.

Anyway heres my point. At what point does something become sexist? When I called the dude a pussy I was using the term the way most people use it, to call a guy a wimp. I was'nt trying to be deroggetory toward women, I was being derogetory toward the guy.

Most people I know don't use the word pussy in that context. Maybe I don't know enough 10 year olds? Why is pussy synonymous with wimp? Because pussy is a word used by some for vagina, and hence the use of the word pussy when you mean wimp means that you consider that person to be as "weak as a woman", which isn't offensive to the person, but to women.


There are other things that some people consider sexist that I think is rediculous. For example, a man viewing a woman as a sex object. Whats wrong with that? Not every person in your life has to be respected and viewed in the same way. I view my barber as a hair cutting object, am I objectifying him? Some women view men as sex objects, or drink buying objects, are they objectifying them?

Do you treat your barber in the same way you would treat an attractive woman? I bet you give him/her a lot more respect than you do to the woman.


Advertisers put up hot women in skimpy clothes on billboards because they are trying to sell products either to men who like hot women in skimpy clothes, or women who want to be attractive to men. The same goes for the male models.

What does a woman in skimpy clothes have to do with those products? If you're gullible enough to buy something just because the advert had a half-naked woman in it, I feel sorry for you. Women should want to care more about how they think about themselves than how men think about them.

Male models? Yeah, I'm sure they face the same discrimination as female models. There's so much pressure on male models to be thin and show as much flesh as possible!


Back to calling a dude a pussy. The reaoning that was given was that calling a guy a pussy was implying that pussy is wimpy, meaning women are wimpy. Which is strange when you think about it. Others said it could have come from pussy cat, and pussy cats are wimpy (really?). By reasoning is it does'nt matter where it comes from, there are no connotations now. Women use it for each other, for men, men use it for men, and women. Its not at all like the word "nigger" or even "****", because when you call a woman a "****" your attacking are as a woman (even that is debatable, because in some places its more like the word dickhead, inotherwords your a asshole), when you call her a pussy, your attacking her as a wimp.

Why not call him a wimp, then? Why use a word which you know has sexist connotations, even if you don't think it does.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Most people I know don't use the word pussy in that context. Maybe I don't know enough 10 year olds? Why is pussy synonymous with wimp? Because pussy is a word used by some for vagina, and hence the use of the word pussy when you mean wimp means that you consider that person to be as "weak as a woman",

So when I call someone a dick does that mean I think that all men are contemptible? That's spurious logic based on thought processes you could not possibly know about.

[RedAnarchist]

So when I call someone a dick does that mean I think that all men are contemptible? That's spurious logic based on thought processes you could not possibly know about.

Dick isn't as sexist as pussy usually is, though.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Dick isn't as sexist as pussy usually is, though.

How on Earth could you possibly quantify such a thing? Maybe someone uses the word because references to genitalia are vulgar, and they want to take advantage of the rhetorical force that it provides? Does not "you wimp" lack the same oomph that "you fucking pussy" provides in ample proportions?

[RedAnarchist]

How on Earth could you possibly quantify such a thing? Maybe someone uses the word because references to genitalia are vulgar, and they want to take advantage of the rhetorical force that it provides? Does not "you wimp" lack the same oomph that "you fucking pussy" provides in ample proportions?

Do you really think RGacky was thinking that when he wrote his post?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Do you really think RGacky was thinking that when he wrote his post?

No I don't, because I have no idea. But neither do you.

[RedAnarchist]

No I don't, because I have no idea. But neither do you.

I agree with you, but I think that it is likely that he was using it in a sexist context.

[RGacky3]

I have sympathized with your point of view throughout the whole thing but now I remember it all started because you were acting like a smartass gobshite to me.

Ban him!


Why do you have to call another person in the forum anything at all? You should say, "I disagree with your opinion for the following reasons...."

It was in the chatter forum and it was a light hearted little snipe. :) Don't take it personally.


Why is pussy synonymous with wimp? Because pussy is a word used by some for vagina, and hence the use of the word pussy when you mean wimp means that you consider that person to be as "weak as a woman", which isn't offensive to the person, but to women.


What women? I have never heard a woman offended by that term.


Do you treat your barber in the same way you would treat an attractive woman? I bet you give him/her a lot more respect than you do to the woman.

depends on the woman, is'nt that the way it should be?


If you're gullible enough to buy something just because the advert had a half-naked woman in it, I feel sorry for you. Women should want to care more about how they think about themselves than how men think about them.


A lot of people are that gullible (subconcsiously). I agree with your second statement, that women should'nt care as much as they do how men think of them, but if they do care too much about how men think of them, does that make the man sexist?


Male models? Yeah, I'm sure they face the same discrimination as female models. There's so much pressure on male models to be thin and show as much flesh as possible!


Thats his freaking job for gods sake. Is it discrimination to expect a lumberjack or a dockworker to be strong? How is there any difference?


Why not call him a wimp, then? Why use a word which you know has sexist connotations, even if you don't think it does.

Because I don't believe in making light of things like sexism and racism by applying the word places it does'nt belong, thus almost destroying its meaning.


Dick isn't as sexist as pussy usually is, though.

Where are all these women that take the word pussy when applied to wimpy men as an attack on womenhood?


I agree with you, but I think that it is likely that he was using it in a sexist context.

How, look at the context?

How could you use it in a sexist context or non sexist context, when both contexts have the exact same meaning. At that point your making an impossible judgement call on my character pretty much saying "its not nessesarilly sexist, but you probably believe in the sexist connotations that I'm going to apply to that word."

[Leaf]

What women? I have never heard a woman offended by that term.
."

Ha! Well here I am. The word pussy is very commonly used in a sexist way imo.

[RGacky3]

Ha! Well here I am. The word pussy is very commonly used in a sexist way imo.

Thats not what I asked, I used the word pussy quite easily. I've heard it many times, I've never seen anyone ofended by the word as being sexist.

Also how is it used in a sexist way? Are you implying that when men or women call other men or women a "pussy" they are actively saying that women are wimpier than men? Your saying that that is their intention?

Because maybe I'm just around the wrong people but I've never heard the word Pussy used with THAT intention.

Whether the word came origionally from pussy cat or vagina has nothing to do with whether or not its being used as a sexist term.

[Demogorgon]

I don't want to pass comment on whether it is sexist or not, it isn't a word that is used where I live anyway. But I will say, it will be a bit ironic if this site were to condemn the word "pussy" as sexist, but let members use the word "****" with impunity.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Ha! Well here I am. The word pussy is very commonly used in a sexist way imo.
And I'm a man who thinks the word banana is a word of oppression used to keep us males down. Ban anyone who uses the b-word.

[Dr Mindbender]

calling a man a 'pussy' isnt just sexist, its also homophobic because in this context it's almost used exclusively as a pejoritive implying effeminiate, gender-contradictory behaviour.

Using the word in anywhere else in the forum would get you a reprimand, and rightly so.

[RGacky3]

its also homophobic because in this context it's almost used exclusively as a pejoritive implying effeminiate, gender-contradictory behaviour.


Since when does being effeminate have anything to do with homosexuality???

[RedAnarchist]

Since when does being effeminate have anything to do with homosexuality???

You know full well that in Western society, homosexual men are stereotyped as effiminate.

[Demogorgon]

calling a man a 'pussy' isnt just sexist, its also homophobic because in this context it's almost used exclusively as a pejoritive implying effeminiate, gender-contradictory behaviour.

Using the word in anywhere else in the forum would get you a reprimand, and rightly so.
I have never heard the word "pussy" used in a homophobic context. Indeed, the context I hear it used the most in, is directed at heterosexual men who are believed to be at the mercy of women.

I am certainly not saying that justifies the word, but there is quite enough homophobic terms out there without adding to the list, I think.

[RGacky3]

You know full well that in Western society, homosexual men are stereotyped as effiminate.

Yeah, so, that does'nt mean that teasing a person for being wimpy, or weak has anything to do with homosexuality. Or even someone being effeminate.

I seriously doubt a gay person would take being called a pussy an attack on his sexuality, unless that was what ther person calling him that was intending.

Your playing a football game, a guy with the ball drops because he's afraid of getting tackled, you say "don't drop you pussy".

A girl likes a guy, but she's too nervous to approach him, you say "don't be a pussy".

A guy calls his girlfriend and lies about where he is to not make her mad, his friends call him "pussy whipped".

and so on and so forth, none of these statements are an attack on sexuality, none of them are an attack on gender. They are all an attack on courage, and "back bone". I suppose one could say its discrimination against scardycats, but then again, where do we draw the line.

[Leaf]

Thats not what I asked, I used the word pussy quite easily. I've heard it many times, I've never seen anyone ofended by the word as being sexist.

Also how is it used in a sexist way? Are you implying that when men or women call other men or women a "pussy" they are actively saying that women are wimpier than men? Your saying that that is their intention?

Because maybe I'm just around the wrong people but I've never heard the word Pussy used with THAT intention.

Whether the word came origionally from pussy cat or vagina has nothing to do with whether or not its being used as a sexist term.

You said you've never heard of any woman who was offended by the word and I'm telling you I know a lot of women, myself included, who find it offensive. Its origin is irrelevant. How it's used is the issue here and I often hear the word used to demean women.
My guess is, like someone said before, your use of the word implied that you are accusing them of being as weak as a woman.
But that said, I have heard people use it in a non-sexist way.(Even if it isn't sexist, it's certainly abusive and offensive). It just depends on where you've grown up etc. I'm not attacking you, just letting you know, that regardless of intention, some women (and men for that matter) find it offensive. Who knows? It might mean wimp --> wuss --> wussy --> pussy.
I don't think you wanted to be sexist at all. It's just a problem of an unkown meaning of the word and the variety of individuals here from different places. We are all obviously against sexism so it's more of an technicality.

[RGacky3]

You said you've never heard of any woman who was offended by the word and I'm telling you I know a lot of women, myself included, who find it offensive. Its origin is irrelevant. How it's used is the issue here and I often hear the word used to demean women.

Ok thats fine, I can respect that. However, HOW is it being used to demean women. In other words whats the context of the sentance where "pussy" is used where the intention is to demean women. Also if that was the case, calling a woman a pussy would be compleatly meaningless, however its done all the time.


My guess is, like someone said before, your use of the word implied that you are accusing them of being as weak as a woman.

If that were the case calling a woman a pussy would not make sense at all, but it happens all the time.


I don't think you wanted to be sexist at all. It's just a problem of an unkown meaning of the word and the variety of individuals here from different places. We are all obviously against sexism so it's more of an technicality.

Thats my point of starting up this thread. When you start making things like racism and sexism into matters of technicality, your in essence, diminishing the seriousness, of actual sexism and actual racism, your taking it to such a rediculous extreme that niether words have weight. How can you expect people to take sexism seriously when you deep simple phrases like "pussy", in which no sexism or gender attack is indended, (in at least the cases I'm familure with, I'm not sure abot other countries) as sexist. What it turns into is just looking for anything to be offended at, rather than taking sexism and racism as serious issues.

Then theres the issue of making basic sexual drive into a inssue of discrimination, which cheapens the issue.

[Leaf]

Ok thats fine, I can respect that. However, HOW is it being used to demean women. In other words whats the context of the sentance where "pussy" is used where the intention is to demean women. Also if that was the case, calling a woman a pussy would be compleatly meaningless, however its done all the time.
If that were the case calling a woman a pussy would not make sense at all, but it happens all the time.

I think it might still make sense. Like if you accused a man of being as shallow as a woman (assuming the insulter is sexist). You could still insult the woman by calling her shallow as well. Hmm? Perhaps not. I'm tired.


[/QUOTE]Thats my point of starting up this thread. When you start making things like racism and sexism into matters of technicality, your in essence, diminishing the seriousness, of actual sexism and actual racism, your taking it to such a rediculous extreme that niether words have weight. How can you expect people to take sexism seriously when you deep simple phrases like "pussy", in which no sexism or gender attack is indended, (in at least the cases I'm familure with, I'm not sure abot other countries) as sexist. What it turns into is just looking for anything to be offended at, rather than taking sexism and racism as serious issues.

Then theres the issue of making basic sexual drive into a inssue of discrimination, which cheapens the issue.[/QUOTE]


Where I live (and I get the feeling that it is not usual) I've heard men, when being overall horrible to a woman say something like 'come here you pussy'. I feel (though it may have no legitimacy) that it is objectifying in the sense that the woman is being identified by her vagina/abilty to pleasure a man. Much like the word '****', also meaning vagina. It's vulgar to be honest and makes you feel uncomfortable.

I know that you were certainly not using it like this. But the word is definetly abusive, offensive and ambiguous. Certainly, fastidiousnes regarding technicalities diminishes the seriousness of actual sexism.Therefore the solution is surely to avoid the word. If you were to appeal, I would not argue that it isn't sexist, since many take it as such, but rather, argue that you were only aware of its one meaning - wimp.

This debating is fun :D but I've been spending too much time on here and should be doing my homework so I'm off for awhile. Stupid quote thing:cursing:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You know full well that in Western society, homosexual men are stereotyped as effiminate.

And as an enlightened 21st-century guy, I know that stereotype to be utter bollocks.


Where I live (and I get the feeling that it is not usual) I've heard men, when being overall horrible to a woman say something like 'come here you pussy'. I feel (though it may have no legitimacy) that it is objectifying in the sense that the woman is being identified by her vagina/abilty to pleasure a man. Much like the word '****', also meaning vagina. It's vulgar to be honest and makes you feel uncomfortable.

Isn't the act of referring to someone in a demeaning manner more important than the word itself? After all, it is the context that defines the offensiveness of a word. Just because "nigger" is in the dictionary doesn't make the dictionary racist.

Also, I've never heard the word "pussy" used in the manner you describe. Where I come from it is simply a vulgar word for a coward, if directed at a person. This is why anecdotes =/= data!


I know that you were certainly not using it like this. But the word is definetly abusive, offensive and ambiguous. Certainly, fastidiousnes regarding technicalities diminishes the seriousness of actual sexism.Therefore the solution is surely to avoid the word.I refuse to change my language because someone, somewhere is going to read into it more than I meant, which considering the flexibility of the English language and very large number of speakers, is practically inevitable. Not only that but people are completely willing to invent false etymologies for all kinds of words - persynally I fynd yt extrymely yrrytatyng when people thynk wrytyng lyke thys ys "radycal"

Furthermore, nobody has the right to not be offended. Having the freedom to speak one's mind isn't all sunshine and flowers. I think the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is a pile of shit. I'm sure I've upset somebody with that.

[Kronos]

RGacky3, you got to the source of gender conflicts when you mentioned advertisement. That is pretty much it. The free market seduces consumers through administrating gender oriented symbols in advertisement, which in a class based society are sought after to establish identities. This is called "semiotics", and it consists of three basic false ideologies in unison: reification, commodity fetishism, and the pathetic fallacy.

Now if you can understand that the advertisement industries use the base human desires as the foundation on which they can induce the sense of appeal in consumers, you might be able to narrow a large percent of that stimulus down to the sex drive. As a basic rule, product advertisement is in some way or another exploiting the psychological desire to get sex, and be sexy. Where this is not obvious and explicit...there is generally something there that can be indirectly associated to sexuality...and this creates the same effect.

Because of these factors, the consumerist discourse is laden with subtle conflicts between the sexes....as everyone is struggling in competition to be the idolized subject portrayed through the media/advertisement mediums. The men want to be the alpha men, with the axe body spray and solo-flex, while the women want to be the alpha women, with the model figure and the power of financial independence, for instance.

You don't find the same kind of relations in a communist society because the elements which create this coercion are not present.

Consumers in a free market system are the equivalent to a cage of hamsters, while the evil scientists are the capitalist advertisement industries.

I saw a youtube video recently where, in the introduction, Zizek makes a parody of a scene in The Matrix. Morpheus offers him the blue pill or the red pill....and Zizek demands a third alternative; not the illusion and not the reality.....but the reality of the illusion.

A good metaphor to explain how consumerist society and its free market advertisments works on the public imagination and psychology. Consumers are engaged in realizing fantasies that are created to relieve them of their imprending sense of inferiority, alienation and estrangment from others.

The gender wars are a manifestation of this.

[Dr Mindbender]

I have never heard the word "pussy" used in a homophobic context.

Well in fairness, its usually an american slur. In popular american media, i've heard it used many times in place of 'fag' in this context to imply that a man has a 'dislike' or 'fear' of the female anatomy, therefore the slang for the female genitalia is used as a pejoritive against him (perhaps implying the man in question is female-like or has a desire to become female).

Of course it is homophobic.

[RGacky3]

Well in fairness, its usually an american slur. In popular american media, i've heard it used many times in place of 'fag' in this context to imply that a man has a 'dislike' or 'fear' of the female anatomy, therefore the slang for the female genitalia is used as a pejoritive against him (perhaps implying the man in question is female-like or has a desire to become female).

Of course it is homophobic.

Its not used in place of the term fag, the word fag (in America) is a word for homosexuals, people use it as a replacement for "wimp" or "pussy" because of the stereotype that gay people are wimps and so on. That does'nt maen that the word pussy or wimp are the same as fag.

Also where have you heard the word pussy used to describe a man who is afraid of the female anatomy? In popular media. Also, would the sentance be exactly the same had you replaced the word with "wussy" (I'm betting it would).

Even the word Fag, does'nt have the same connotations as it used too, obviously its a homophobic word, but many people use it without any homophobic intentions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-otAJrtY-w


Now if you can understand that the advertisement industries use the base human desires as the foundation on which they can induce the sense of appeal in consumers, you might be able to narrow a large percent of that stimulus down to the sex drive. As a basic rule, product advertisement is in some way or another exploiting the psychological desire to get sex, and be sexy. Where this is not obvious and explicit...there is generally something there that can be indirectly associated to sexuality...and this creates the same effect.

Because of these factors, the consumerist discourse is laden with subtle conflicts between the sexes....as everyone is struggling in competition to be the idolized subject portrayed through the media/advertisement mediums. The men want to be the alpha men, with the axe body spray and solo-flex, while the women want to be the alpha women, with the model figure and the power of financial independence, for instance.

I agree, but that has nothing to do with sexism or discrimination, the same thing could be said about food rather than sex.


Furthermore, nobody has the right to not be offended. Having the freedom to speak one's mind isn't all sunshine and flowers. I think the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is a pile of shit. I'm sure I've upset somebody with that.

I agree, its rediculous, when you take an actual problem, actual grievences and just turn them in to a circus of fake offence and looking for reasons to be offended, valid or not, its just that, its a circus.


I think it might still make sense. Like if you accused a man of being as shallow as a woman (assuming the insulter is sexist). You could still insult the woman by calling her shallow as well. Hmm? Perhaps not. I'm tired.

I did'nt say "he's a pussy like a woman", or "he's wimpy like a woman", I called him a "pussy" which is a word unto itself, if the word "pussy" ment "wimpy like a woman" calling a woman a "pussy" would be meaningless.


I've heard men, when being overall horrible to a woman say something like 'come here you pussy'. I feel (though it may have no legitimacy) that it is objectifying in the sense that the woman is being identified by her vagina/abilty to pleasure a man. Much like the word '****', also meaning vagina. It's vulgar to be honest and makes you feel uncomfortable.

Maybe its used differently in different areas (clearly as I can see in this thread). However even that, I would argue is not sexist. Its just vulgar and in bad taste.

In that sense your clearly being identified by your assumed ability to pleasure a man, but that is'nt sexist. If a girl says too me "come here hot stuff" or something like that, its the exact same thing (maybe with a little less vulgarity).

Is he objectifying you for your looks? Clearly, but thats not sexist, he's just thinking with his dick.


I know that you were certainly not using it like this. But the word is definetly abusive, offensive and ambiguous. Certainly, fastidiousnes regarding technicalities diminishes the seriousness of actual sexism.Therefore the solution is surely to avoid the word. If you were to appeal, I would not argue that it isn't sexist, since many take it as such, but rather, argue that you were only aware of its one meaning - wimp.

It is abusive and offensive, and its intended that way, (although I was using it toungue in cheek, not that it should make a difference to the debate).

The sollution is not just to not use it, because guess what, many many people use it with no sexist intentions, and when you suddenly turn them into defacto sexists, it cheapens the problem, whether or not I use it. It does'n matter how many meanings it has, the way I used it was undenyably not sexist. The sollution is to not be going around looking for stuff to be offended about, and turninig people who are not actual sexists or racists into defacto sexists and racists.

[Kronos]

I agree, but that has nothing to do with sexism or discrimination, the same thing could be said about food rather than sex.

Oh but it does. The causes of the belief that one sex is dominant or that one race is dominant can be inevitably traced back to some cultural meme, some ideology or "narrative" that influences people's beliefs.

Sexism and discrimination certainly are not scientific concepts...so where did they originate? What is it that influenced men to think they are superior to women, or whites to think they are superior to blacks? Some kind of false ideology, either metaphysical or religious. Such belief systems permeate every aspect of the consumer discourse.

[RGacky3]

How does


Now if you can understand that the advertisement industries use the base human desires as the foundation on which they can induce the sense of appeal in consumers, you might be able to narrow a large percent of that stimulus down to the sex drive. As a basic rule, product advertisement is in some way or another exploiting the psychological desire to get sex, and be sexy. Where this is not obvious and explicit...there is generally something there that can be indirectly associated to sexuality...and this creates the same effect.

Because of these factors, the consumerist discourse is laden with subtle conflicts between the sexes....as everyone is struggling in competition to be the idolized subject portrayed through the media/advertisement mediums. The men want to be the alpha men, with the axe body spray and solo-flex, while the women want to be the alpha women, with the model figure and the power of financial independence, for instance.

Cause the belief of one sex being dominant? As far as I can see it just capitalises on natural sex drive.

Remember, men are sexually objectified as well. Everyone is objectified, when you go to a restraunt your objectifying the waitress or waiter as a food bringing object, when your at the dentist you objectify the dentist as a teeth cleaning object.

When you have a one night stand, your objectifying your partner sexually, and your partner is objectifying you. Where does one sex being dominant come in?

[Kronos]

Where does one sex being dominant come in? Look for the subtleties in commercial advertisements and the entertainment industry in general.

You will see more cases where, if men and women are placed in a context together, the man will be playing the dominant role while the female plays a secondary role.

In the media, sexuality is always more emphasized if the subject is a woman. For example, this recent Hardees commercial- this ordinary geek guy is sitting on a bench eating a burger.....then comes along this hot chick ("cherry pie" playing in the background) who walks up and gives him her number. But the guy has grease on his finger and smears the last four digits of the number. Unfortunately she drives away.

Another commercial with the same sexual theme was on TV recently, about these little mini burgers. The guy is sitting on a bench again...and all these hot chicks are flocking around him admiring the cute little burgers. Here the subliminal context is utilizing both sexuality and maternal instinct in the female- the chick is bending over while her tits are falling out....admiring the adorable little baby burgers.

Now why wasn't a woman sitting on the bench, in both commercials, while hot guys came around?

Then another Hardees commercial where this beautiful chick is eating a burger and dropping sauce all over herself....which she then licks off in an erotic manner.

Why didn't they use a dude in that commercial? Can't a hot guy lick sauce off his leg too?

Two mediums that move the market the most: hot chicks and sexual innuendos.

And have you noticed that very rarely are ordinary looking women used in any advertisement, while ordinary men are ofter used? Even the housewife who is using the new Swifter Sweeper is drop dead gorgeous, but the man using his new lawn mower to cut the grass is average.

The dominance of the male sex, here, is evidenced by the way ordinary, average women are excluded from/in advertisement. We are seeing a male run advertisement industry portray its ideal, objectified version of the alpha-female.

This sublimity gives male consumers a sense of superiority because only the fantastic type of woman is used in semiotics, while ordinary average men are always used. Average women make up the majority, but simultaneously make up the minority of subjects in advertisement. Therefore, in the public domain, men think less or ordinary women because they do not fit the mold of the symbol of the woman in advertisement.

Why would there be no effort to exclude ordinary men from advertisement? Maybe because the largest group of spenders consists of the middle class average Joe? And at the same time, objectifing perfect women in advertisement creates the incentive for ordinary women to desire that image. The same for the men- the perfect solo flex abs and the enormous SUV with the mountain bike racks. The circle is complete...and the wheels of the market monster keep turning.

Really, consumers are simple. They are like Pavlonian zombie hamsters.

[Nulono]

Where are all these women that take the word pussy when applied to wimpy men as an attack on womenhood?There aren't any. These PC assholes tend to be rich white guys with too much guilt/free time.

Just like how all the actual businessmen are the more socialist. The die-hard reactionaries tend to be white 20-somethings vlogging from their moms' basements.

[Bud Struggle]

Do you PC RevLefters honestly think that Gay men are Pussy Wipped? :rolleyes:

[eyedrop]

Do you PC RevLefters honestly think that Gay men are Pussy Wipped? :rolleyes:

How about that some of them are dick wipped? My native language uses a gender neutral word for it, tøffel (slipper). It's worth noting that such terms are usually aimed at men that are the subservient partner in a relationship. We don't have special words for women that are subservient in a relationship, there are loads more women that are pussywipped but that is somewhat more considered to be the standard.

[Robert]

there are loads more women that are pussywipped

By what? Amazons?

[RGacky3]

Now why wasn't a woman sitting on the bench, in both commercials, while hot guys came around?

Because men are their target audience, in those commercials.


Why didn't they use a dude in that commercial? Can't a hot guy lick sauce off his leg too?

Two mediums that move the market the most: hot chicks and sexual innuendos.

Certian markets yeah, and no a hot guy could'nt lick the sauce of his leg too, because that would'nt hit as wide an audience as the advertizers intended.


And have you noticed that very rarely are ordinary looking women used in any advertisement, while ordinary men are ofter used? Even the housewife who is using the new Swifter Sweeper is drop dead gorgeous, but the man using his new lawn mower to cut the grass is average.

Not always the case, depends on the advertizement and their intended audience, ever see a shaving cream commercial with a tubby guy?. Commercials are ment to sell products, not promote sexism, the emotions they play off of are natural emotions. Also the drop dead gorgeous woman in the swifter sweeper commercial plays off the fact that many woman are more concerned about their looks than men.


The dominance of the male sex, here, is evidenced by the way ordinary, average women are excluded from/in advertisement.

That has nothing to do with dominant sex or whatever, its simply advertisers knowing their audience and what will attract them.


Therefore, in the public domain, men think less or ordinary women because they do not fit the mold of the symbol of the woman in advertisement.


Think less of them in what way? What proof do you have of this, if you mean less willing to sleep with them, then yeah, probably, but that has nothing to do with sexism. I don't know if there is any evidence that ordinary women have less friends or get less respect because of advertising.

Oh and also, since when has a womans worth been dependant on what men think of them?

[eyedrop]

By what? Amazons? By men?

[RGacky3]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert the Great http://www.revleft.com/vb/sexist-language-and-t108459/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/sexist-language-and-t108459/showthread.php?p=1442568#post1442568)
By what? Amazons?
By men?

Thats dickwhipped, and so what? Even if that is the case. That does'nt make the word pussywhipped discriminatory.

[Bud Struggle]

Thats dickwhipped, and so what? Even if that is the case. That does'nt make the word pussywhipped discriminatory.

And that's an interesting point. Is it discrimination to mention that discrimination exists?

[Kronos]

What is the issue here? Are the communists caught in the paradox of trying to simultaneously rid the world of stereotypical slurs and defend the right of the free speech to make stereotypical slurs?

What a gorgeous little problem this is. One of the all pervading contradictions in communist ideology: have authority....but don't have authority. Well which is it? Either you ban free speech....or quit complaining when people say stupid shit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjEtmZZvGZA

Listen to the absolutely wonderful point made by Zizek when he explains the difference between the old fashioned totalitarian authority and this new tolerant, post-modern authority.

The latter contains dishonest, implicit authority...which is worse than direct totalitarian authority.

Meditate on that thought for a while.

[eyedrop]

Thats dickwhipped, and so what? Even if that is the case. That does'nt make the word pussywhipped discriminatory. By no means, I was just pointing out that such words were a result of pathriarchy, not a cause of it.

[RGacky3]

Either you ban free speech....or quit complaining when people say stupid shit.

Excactly, free speech is free speech, and when people say stupid stuff, it does'nt matter, most of the time when people say it has little influence anyway, or is a ... joke.


By no means, I was just pointing out that such words were a result of pathriarchy, not a cause of it.

I don't think its the result of patriachy, its the result of people getting pussywhipped and other people teasing them for it.

[superiority]

I'm a little confused about what people have been saying about "intention". I'm pretty sure that 1) it's possible to say or do racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory things without intending to do them, and 2) that doesn't make it okay.

Ex. 1: Suppose I am terribly ignorant, and some mischievous trickster informs me that "spic" is a Spanish-language compliment usually directed towards Hispanics. I subsequently go around calling Hispanic people spics. Some angry people inform me that it is in fact a racial slur. Clearly I did not intend to say something racist. Do I get angry and defensive when people tell me that I said something racist, and deny wrongdoing because "I didn't intend it"? Seems kind of silly.

Ex. 2: Same scenario as above, except with burning crosses on black people's lawns. Have I done something wrong? Should I apologise for my mistake?

Ex. 3: I am driving a car, get distracted, and run someone over. Is getting defensive appropriate if someone gets mad? Or would acknowledgement of my mistake be the better action?

And I have to say, it seems obvious to me that calling someone a "pussy" clearly associates women with weakness, whether the speaker intends it or not. "Pussywhipped" seems to imply that it is inappropriate for women to tell men what to do (gender roles ftw!). Frankly, seems pretty sexist to me.

[RGacky3]

I'm pretty sure that 1) it's possible to say or do racist, sexist, or otherwise discriminatory things without intending to do them, and 2) that doesn't make it okay.


If you don't intend to say it that way, then the problem is with the interpritation is'nt it?


I subsequently go around calling Hispanic people spics. Some angry people inform me that it is in fact a racial slur. Clearly I did not intend to say something racist. Do I get angry and defensive when people tell me that I said something racist, and deny wrongdoing because "I didn't intend it"? Seems kind of silly.


Then its not the interpretation thats wrong, its your understanding. But that does'nt make yo ua racist. Now I doubt they would actually be very angry at you if you did'nt know what it means, but if you continue calling them spics even though you know the meaning of the word, the only intention possible is that you want to insult them as an ethnicity.


And I have to say, it seems obvious to me that calling someone a "pussy" clearly associates women with weakness, whether the speaker intends it or not. "Pussywhipped" seems to imply that it is inappropriate for women to tell men what to do (gender roles ftw!). Frankly, seems pretty sexist to me.

Spic, is almost always used as a derogetorry term for hispanic people, thats the intention behind the word, its not the connotation of the word, thats the INTENTION. The associations of calling someone a "pussy" is something a listener comes up with by himself, the intention behind is almos always (at least where I'm from) to call someone a wimp.

When I use the word "pussy" I'm using it the way its commonly understood, so your comparison to the word "spic" does'nt work.

Pussywhipped is a term describing men who do whatever their girl tells them and don't stand up for themselves, whether or not that is inappropriate is up to whoever is being called pussywhipped.

[superiority]

If you don't intend to say it that way, then the problem is with the interpritation is'nt it?
So the people who would be offended by my doing that have a "problem"?


Then its not the interpretation thats wrong, its your understanding.
I'm confused: you just said "if you don't intend it that way, then the problem is with the interpretation". And also: you don't think that is at all applicable in this case, involving you and Chit-Chat?


But that does'nt make yo ua racist.
I never said it did. I said it was a racist thing to say.


Now I doubt they would actually be very angry at you if you did'nt know what it means
You're probably more or less right.


but if you continue calling them spics even though you know the meaning of the word, the only intention possible is that you want to insult them as an ethnicity.
What if I deny that it's a racial slur at all, because I intend it as a compliment? Not at all analagous to your situation?




Spic, is almost always used as a derogetorry term for hispanic people, thats the intention behind the word, its not the connotation of the word, thats the INTENTION.
That's why I was specifically talking about a situation where that wasn't the intention. The fact that it's a racist thing to say is true regardless of my intent. The issue is not how pure and good of a person I am and how noble my intentions are, it is what I have actually done.


The associations of calling someone a "pussy" is something a listener comes up with by himself
True in a sense, but that thought process is not devoid of historical and social context. When you say "pussy", nobody is going to think that you mean "calculator" or "pair of bellbottom jeans". The word has particular objective properties that influence both how the word is used and how it is perceived.



When I use the word "pussy" I'm using it the way its commonly understood, so your comparison to the word "spic" does'nt work.
It's apparently not so common, as there seems to be rather some disagreement here.


Pussywhipped is a term describing men who do whatever their girl tells them and don't stand up for themselves, whether or not that is inappropriate is up to whoever is being called pussywhipped.
It is used as an insult. The speaker is saying "you are doing what a women tells you to AND that is a bad thing". People don't mean it as a compliment.

[RGacky3]

So the people who would be offended by my doing that have a "problem"?

In that circumstance, yes. Because that person has no reason to be offended, and the "offender" has'nt desearved being accused of anything.


I'm confused: you just said "if you don't intend it that way, then the problem is with the interpretation". And also: you don't think that is at all applicable in this case, involving you and Chit-Chat?

In that case with the "spic" the people hearing the person interprited it the way the word is intended, however the person using the word did'nt understand the maening.

I, and you, know what I ment, and what is generally ment by the word "pussy".


What if I deny that it's a racial slur at all, because I intend it as a compliment? Not at all analagous to your situation?

Well the word generally is'nt used as a compliment, at all. Pussy generally is'nt used to put down women either.


The fact that it's a racist thing to say is true regardless of my intent. The issue is not how pure and good of a person I am and how noble my intentions are, it is what I have actually done.

I just showed how that race example does'nt fit. The person saying the word did'nt know what it means (how its generally used), in my case, both you and I, know how its generally used, and how I used it, however, the offended, decides to add on meaning, thats neither I put on it, nor is generally put on it. So my understanding and intention was correct.


I never said it did. I said it was a racist thing to say.

The only reason its a racist thing to say, its because the word is always associated with racism, directly.


True in a sense, but that thought process is not devoid of historical and social context. When you say "pussy", nobody is going to think that you mean "calculator" or "pair of bellbottom jeans". The word has particular objective properties that influence both how the word is used and how it is perceived.

Yeah, most people don't associate calling someone a pussy with an attack on women as a gender, or even having anything to do with gender at all. If they did, then calling a woman a pussy would make no sense would it?


It's apparently not so common, as there seems to be rather some disagreement here.

The examples I heard, arn't really that sexist, in my opinion. "Come here you pussy" is'nt sexist, its just kind of a rude and vulture way to show a woman you want to bang her.


It is used as an insult. The speaker is saying "you are doing what a women tells you to AND that is a bad thing". People don't mean it as a compliment.

It would'nt work as an insult if people did'nt take it as an insult, being controlled by ANYONE is generally taken as negative.

[Bud Struggle]

Wouldn't it be best if the Board of Directors of RevLeft make a list of all that words that are not permitted to be used as well as the punishment associated with such words? Then we can all know what to expect when we disobey. :)

I do that in my business. Someone calls a Black guy the "N" word and they are terminated. The rules are print and given to every employee and they work with it.

If you want I can give the bosses here at RevLeft, Inc. my full HR rule sheet on the subject.

[Robert]

"Come here you pussy" is'nt sexist, its just kind of a rude and vulture way to show a woman you want to bang her.



I'm going to agree with the PC priests here that "pussywhipped" betrays sexism, if faintly, because the insinuation is that it's against the rules of nature for a woman to tell a man what to do, even if the knock is ostensibly against the guy. There is a list of innocent malpropisms from Catholic schoolkids going around the net, one of which is apropos: "The first commandment was when Eve told Adam to eat the apple."

I guess that made Adam the first pussywhipped man.

[PCommie]

Good lord, folks. Are we really going to descend into an argument over a word? Do you need a history lesson & correlation? Alright, let's go.

First, simple fact: Women are "basically" predisposed to be shorter, less strong, and more pasifistic than men. This can be proven simply by observing my mom and girls at my school; it's not sexist to declare fact, just to say that women are worth less, which I'm certainly not. (Disclaimer: This is not to suggest that women cannot be just as tall, strong, and aggressive as men [trust me, I know some at school.] Again, "basically.")

Second, how this goes into history. Because of this, it is historically gallant of a man to defend a woman and open doors and such. Some people think this is sexist. Some people believe in spirits and leprechauns.

Third, this develops into a correlative association with the word "pussy," which simply means vagina. Through popular use, this slang term becomes a way of saying "wimp" because of its historical correlation.

The conclusion? "Pussy" could be taken as indirectly sexist, but people who say "you pussy" do not mean it; they are going with popular culture and using a popular word. They don't even think about this kind of historical correlation.

So, I ask you, are we going to waste our valueable communist time arguing over a word?

H&S forever,
-PC

[Kronos]

Someone calls a Black guy the "N" word and they are terminated.

Course there are cases of being such good friends with what Zappa called "the severely tanned, highly rhythmic individuals" that a racial slur made in jest is acceptable.

In my old band we had a black bass player. James. Extremely tall. That sonofa***** could play a bass like nobody's business. If he were in the other room playing....you'd think it was Geddy Lee from Rush.

Paul, the guitarist, and I used to call him the "Nigrasaurus", because of his towering height, and because of his exceptionally large mouth....other aliases were "The Lippopotamus" and "Professor Lips".

He preferred Professor Lips because it had a nice scholarly touch, which became his stage name.

[RGacky3]

Good lord, folks. Are we really going to descend into an argument over a word?

Happens all the time. Words have implications.