The "Communism Leads to Fascism" Argument

[absurdao]

I'm sure many of you are familiar with this statement, which I've heard from right-wingers many times. I know I can bring up the existence of anarcho-communism, or the fact that Mussolini had the Italian socialists executed when caught, or that Giovanni Gentile defined fascism as an authoritarian, RIGHT WING, collectivist state. However, these things never seem to phase proponents of capitalism like conservatives and American "libertarians" (or, more accurately, minarchist capitalists). So, how do you respond to this accusation?

[Jack]

Communism is internationalist.

Fascism is nationalist.

There you go.

[absurdao]

Communism is internationalist.

Fascism is nationalist.

There you go.
Oh, come on. That's not very satisfying.

[Random Precision]

I'm sure many of you are familiar with this statement, which I've heard from right-wingers many times. I know I can bring up the existence of anarcho-communism, or the fact that Mussolini had the Italian socialists executed when caught, or that Giovanni Gentile defined fascism as an authoritarian, RIGHT WING, collectivist state. However, these things never seem to phase proponents of capitalism like conservatives and American "libertarians" (or, more accurately, minarchist capitalists). So, how do you respond to this accusation?

I've heard the argument that "communist states" and fascist states are similar or even the same, but not that one leads into the other. There are two ways you can go with this:

1) Say that existing or past "communist states" had nothing to do with communism as far as ideology goes. Your typical right-winger will not find this very convincing, but that's how it goes.
2) Point out that the Stalinist states (USSR, the glacis states, China etc.) really bore no resemblance to fascist states like Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy or Spain, etc. There are huge gaps between the two from their economies to governance to social policies. Even their supposedly similar "one party state" apparatus' really had nothing in common. There is really nothing to compare except vague proclamations about "control" or "totalitarianism", which is a formula that has been completely discredited by recent historians.

[Dejavu]

In theory , actual communism is quite different from fascism, even calling for an end to the state.

I think the criticisms come when we're talking about herding people into collective thinking/ideology. Some would say that communism and fascism are both anti-individualism and thus share common ground here. Another extension of fascism is National Socialism which puts collective focus on nation and folk rather than classes.

[LOLseph Stalin]

This is the perfect propaganda tool for right-wingers who like to draw the political spectrum as a circle so Communism and Fascism will meet up. This is supposed to show that they're both authoritarian in nature and share many similar qualities. Of course I just laugh at this bullshit. My history teacher used this trick once.

[GPDP]

In theory , actual communism is quite different from fascism, even calling for an end to the state.

I think the criticisms come when we're talking about herding people into collective thinking/ideology. Some would say that communism and fascism are both anti-individualism and thus share common ground here. Another extension of fascism is National Socialism which puts collective focus on nation and folk rather than classes.

Indeed they do, but rarely do such criticisms come about. Like RP said, most criticism merely construes both as being one and the same, and when pressed for reasons for making such a comparison, all that's brought up is that they're both totalitarian. Setting aside the fact that the USSR was never communist, or even remotely socialist except in the very broadest terms (and even there I disagree), such comparisons never take into account how differently fascist and "communist" governments were ran.

Really, this equation of communism with fascism is just anti-intellectual, self-serving propaganda meant to stifle critical debate and pose the status quo as the best of all possible systems.

[Kronos]

As a rule, as long as more than one "nation" exists on the planet and there is competition for resources, any political system, during its gestation period, takes the form of an ultra-conservative system with only its own industrial power in mind, and the means to successfully defend itself from competing countries.

This holds true for the countries in which communist revolutions occurred. Those who lack the insight above fail to understand that part of the evolution of the communist state involves "stages", which during the initial periods can be quite radical and audacious. Such is the case for China and Russia- the centralized dictatorship remained so that a firm executive grasp of power could be maintained. A security measure. Capitalism was lurking in the shadows and could at any moment threaten the fledgling communist states.

The "withering away of the state", that Marx theorized, is a utopian idea that can be realized.....but not for a long, long time.

[Il Medico]

It is simple,
Communism is international equality of humanity.
Fascism is the national superiority (belief in) of one race.
Completely different.

[Dr Mindbender]

I think people who make this argument probably don't understand what communism or fascism actually are.

[Verix]

most people now days think fascism is any country that violates the "human rights" set forth by the united states, of course dropping atomic bombs on 2 large citys, driving native americans to the brink of extintion, putting japenese people in conintration camps,
throwing iran and gautamala into politicail chaos so US comapanys could make money off of them, claiming to support freedom of speech while throwing anarchists and communists in jail and many other things do not violate the US defined "human rights" .....

[Old Man Diogenes]

most people now days think fascism is any country that violates the "human rights" set forth by the united states, of course dropping atomic bombs on 2 large citys, driving native americans to the brink of extintion, putting japenese people in conintration camps,
throwing iran and gautamala into politicail chaos so US comapanys could make money off of them, claiming to support freedom of speech while throwing anarchists and communists in jail and many other things do not violate the US defined "human rights" .....

Ouch! Good one.

[rednordman]

Oh, come on. That's not very satisfying.it really is as simple as that though.

[RGacky3]

collectivist state

What is that supposed to mean? Fascism is'nt "collectivist" at all, at least not in any real sense, replace the word collectivist with democratic and you get the same meaning.

Fascism is about corporate and state collaberation, and class collaberation. Which is the polar opposite of Communism.