Working against Imperialism and capitalism is hypocritical

[graffic]

From an idealist point of view, sure, most of what has happened in the name of capitalism and imperialism has been morally corrupt and severely damaging to humanity.

The Iraq war has resulted in privatised oil firms so that the West can invest and get the cherished oil flowing over to the US and Europe. At the EXPENSE of the Iraqi population.

I think most forward thinking people who believe everybody is equal and race does not exist can agree this is wrong. Those of us living in the wealthy nations are wealthy and affluent because others in places such as Africa, are NOT.

We are using top speed internet connections to discuss communist ideas. Most of us probably drink coca cola and go to McDonalds.

Most of the things we enjoy in life are down to the capitalism which we seek to destroy.

I love the ideology behind communism. I think capitalism is wrong in almost every area however opening my eyes around me just re-enforces the fact that communism ain't never gonna happen my friends.

[GPDP]

So we basically have to give up all our luxuries because not doing so reinforces the capitalist system and makes it immune to destruction.

cool story bro

[graffic]

Nah but why do you want to end something that props up places like this internet forum and other luxuries

[MikeSC]

The worst kind of reactionary. You seem to accept that communism is justice, but we should continue to support the injustice that is capitalism because we have the opportunity of luxury at the expense of the rest of the world that does not?

To be frank, you make me sick.

[trivas7]

So we basically have to give up all our luxuries because not doing so reinforces the capitalist system and makes it immune to destruction.

Communism or no, current level of economic development are ecologically unsustainable.

[Demogorgon]

We don't live in a static economy. Justice for poorer countries does not mean hurting the Western working class as we are not exploiters. Rather Western Capitalists are the main exploiters on a worldwide basis and not just in the West. Development is either hampered in the third world or directed more or less exclusively to the benefit of the domestic elite and their Western benefactors.

With the overthrow of capitalism, the need to hold back developing countries, keeping them dependent, will go allowing them to be developed up to Western Standards. That won't mean a decline in the standards of living for most people in the West but rather the Western elite no longer siphoning wealth from the third world.

Also note that due to both environmental concerns and overwork, we need to cut back on non-rational growth, focussing on rational growth instead. Developing poorer parts of the world definitely accounts for rational growth. Also with the increased need for sustainable energy, parts of the third world could benefit. One source could be huge numbers of solar panels in relatively empty parts of the world providing power for everywhere within a radius of several hundred miles and Africa has a lot of deserts...

[mikelepore]

the fact that communism ain't never gonna happen

How could someone know what's going to happen hundreds or thousands of years in the future? Could Aristotle have predicted how we live?

[RGacky3]

I think most forward thinking people who believe everybody is equal and race does not exist can agree this is wrong. Those of us living in the wealthy nations are wealthy and affluent because others in places such as Africa, are NOT.

We are using top speed internet connections to discuss communist ideas. Most of us probably drink coca cola and go to McDonalds.

Most of the things we enjoy in life are down to the capitalism which we seek to destroy.

You don't need horrific exploitation to have highspeed internet and bad food.

Explain how we are comfortable BECAUSE others are not

[Bud Struggle]

I love the ideology behind communism. I think capitalism is wrong in almost every area however opening my eyes around me just re-enforces the fact that communism ain't never gonna happen my friends.

I have to agree. Communism is by far the better system, I just don't see it happening either, though. It not that I don't want it to happen--I just don't see it.

[nightazday]

The worst kind of reactionary. You seem to accept that communism is justice, but we should continue to support the injustice that is capitalism because we have the opportunity of luxury at the expense of the rest of the world that does not?

To be frank, you make me sick.

he's saying you're supporting capitalism BY ENJOYING the luxuries it provides like a bourgeois going to a proletariat man and saying "I'm like one of you" (condescending)

[Dean]

It is totally ridiculous for people to blame the impotent lower classes for the military and economic strangulation of places like Bangladesh, Sierra Leone and India perpetrated by the powerful elite to pad their profit margins. The fact of the matter is that I, and other workers around me, have no powerful input which leads to the systematic exploitation and destruction of the lives of 3rd worlders.

In addition, the consumptive choices by the working class within a limited framework, based on the marketing and proliferation executed by the corporate system, have absolutely no bearing on what explotative measures wil be taken to procure the material production necessary for that consumption. Simply put, the working class could pay the same price and consume the same quality and need-fulfillment of goods in the framework of an open, non-exploitative economic system. The only difference is that somebody would not have that excess capital to entrench their own economic well-being, becasue the explotative production of captial would not exist.

[MikeSC]

he's saying you're supporting capitalism BY ENJOYING the luxuries it provides like a bourgeois going to a proletariat man and saying "I'm like one of you" (condescending)

I get that, I disagree with it but I get it. It's the idea that we should just embrace capitalism because we're not on the recieving end that I heavily dislike.

For the record, I don't think that's a fair opinion anyway. Exploitation under capitalism isn't just the obvious things, like not having possessions. There are things I feel life should be that capitalism cannot give- like working for the improvement of a society you can be proud of, rather than spending your whole life working through necessity for a system that disgusts you. Communism for peace of mind, I guess.

[couch13]

From an idealist point of view, sure, most of what has happened in the name of capitalism and imperialism has been morally corrupt and severely damaging to humanity.

The Iraq war has resulted in privatised oil firms so that the West can invest and get the cherished oil flowing over to the US and Europe. At the EXPENSE of the Iraqi population.

I think most forward thinking people who believe everybody is equal and race does not exist can agree this is wrong. Those of us living in the wealthy nations are wealthy and affluent because others in places such as Africa, are NOT.


I'm not wealthy. I'm broke and just getting another job so that I can afford food to eat. Thank god my parents can feed me during the interim (this isn't too pathetic, i'm 19)
Not at all, Bill Gates didnt' make 36 billion by exploiting Africa, he made 36 billion exploiting other programmers in America.
We don't need to exploit other contries to maintain wealth in a society without money. All people across the world can get these things under communism



We are using top speed internet connections to discuss communist ideas. Most of us probably drink coca cola and go to McDonalds.

The fact of the matter is that these things could be everywhere (except McDonalds, they should be DESTROYED!!!!)


Most of the things we enjoy in life are down to the capitalism which we seek to destroy.

I have the strangest feeling that Monarchists were saying this about Thomas Jefferson and Marat. These things (cheeseburgers and computers) don't disappear under communism, they are still used and most likely improved.


I love the ideology behind communism. I think capitalism is wrong in almost every area however opening my eyes around me just re-enforces the fact that communism ain't never gonna happen my friends.

Capitalism and Bourgeose Democracy failed in France multiple times before they worked. It takes time and failure before we succeed.

[graffic]

I'm not wealthy. I'm broke and just getting another job so that I can afford food to eat. Thank god my parents can feed me during the interim (this isn't too pathetic, i'm 19)

You are wealthy. Compared to the rest of the world you are probably in the top 25%. (I'm guessing you live in the US or Europe).


[LIST=1]All people across the world can get these things under communism


How does that work?

Look at the history of America. It surged to the front the world economy because big business exploited cheap European labour and went on Imperial missions in South America.

Exploitation is the key to "God bless America". I suppose from a philosophical point of view you have to exploit to win, there has to be failure for victory.


[LIST=1]Capitalism and Bourgeose Democracy failed in France multiple times before they worked. It takes time and failure before we succeed.

I agree, communism will happen in the future. And yes, communism has a terrible track record so far.

[RGacky3]

You are wealthy. Compared to the rest of the world you are probably in the top 25%. (I'm guessing you live in the US or Europe).

Its relative first of all, second of all he's still part of the 90 or 95% that control none of the capital and resources of society.


Look at the history of America. It surged to the front the world economy because big business exploited cheap European labour and went on Imperial missions in South America.

Exploitation is the key to "God bless America". I suppose from a philosophical point of view you have to exploit to win, there has to be failure for victory.

Under Capitalism? Yes, you have no idea that Capitalism is the only way to enjoy this, infact in almost all the places where Socialism has taken place or socialistic reforms have taken place, standards of living and comfort have gone up. I'm in Norway now, and its freaking comfortable, for almost everyone.

Yes th eeconomy goes up under exploitation for the exploiter, and of coarse some of that might trickle down to the underclass of the exploiter country. But you hav'nt shown how luxuries and comfort are ONLY possible under those conditions. Infact I think more comfort and luxuries overall would be possible under communism.


And yes, communism has a terrible track record so far.

No it does'nt, Leninism does.

[Kronos]

Communism or no, current level of economic development are ecologically unsustainable.

This is the strongest case against capitalism. Now I am under the impression that behind the global, governmental curtain there are people with extraordinary power who have this very concern; that it is quite possible the world becomes ecologically unsustainable if the free-market is not stopped.

Conspiracy theorizing aside, suppose for a moment that this is true. What, if anything, would the proper political alternative be? Global socialism? In such a system, minimalist principles could be exercised to control the growth of industry and even population. And although these prospects stink of fascism to people like us, here and now, you must imagine at some point such outlandish ideologies are no longer outlandish, but accepted as the rational steps toward making the world better for the human species.

As Nietzsche suggested, are not all revolutionary movements in the world first considered "evil" by the masses, and then after becoming settled, the following generation, having not lived during the period of radical change and therefore without the experience of it, has no conception of the history of that evil?

Certainly there were periods all over the globe during the inception of capitalism that were plagued by war and oppression, no? And yet today the history of capitalism is irrelevant.

Nonetheless, I would hope that those few who have the necessary power might look long into the future and understand that global capitalism will jeopardize life, eventually.

I was just reading about this "Bilderberg Group", apparently one of those "powers behind the curtain" I mentioned, who have this idea of converging the entire north american continent into one union.

I must say this is a step in the right direction and I would suspect Marx would approve of it.