Sex Strike in Kenya

[Pawn Power]

They may not call themselves feminists, but the Kenyan women on a sex strike to try to stop government infighting are heroic
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/01/kenya-sex-politics-women)

Women's activist groups in Kenya have slapped their partners with a week-long sex ban in protest over the infighting plaguing the national unity government. The Women's Development Organisation coalition said they would also pay prostitutes to join their strike. The campaigners are asking the wives of the Kenyan president and the prime minister to join in the embargo.


What do you think about the sex strike in Kenya?

[brigadista]

FGM is a bigger problem

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Interesting that we were just talking about Lysistrata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata) in Chit-Chat :lol:

Interesting tactic, hope it works.

[TC]

It takes a profoundly patriarchal society to generate the notion that such a strike would make sense (though it might in that context).


There is definitely nothing "feminist" about it though. Someone who was empowered and involved in a non-oppressive egalitarian relationship wouldn't think to have a 'sex strike' against their partner because 1. they wouldn't be partnered to someone they have such an adversarial relationship with that they'd take 'industrial action' against 2. wouldn't sex as a transactional/service interaction that might be subject to industrial action 3. would find the loss of sex from their partner as much leverage against them as leverage against the other, otherwise they wouldn't be in the relationship.

[Rascolnikova]

It takes a profoundly patriarchal society to generate the notion that such a strike would make sense (though it might in that context).


There is definitely nothing "feminist" about it though. Someone who was empowered and involved in a non-oppressive egalitarian relationship wouldn't think to have a 'sex strike' against their partner because 1. they wouldn't be partnered to someone they have such an adversarial relationship with that they'd take 'industrial action' against 2. wouldn't sex as a transactional/service interaction that might be subject to industrial action 3. would find the loss of sex from their partner as much leverage against them as leverage against the other, otherwise they wouldn't be in the relationship.

Wait. . . . so it's impossible for someone to take feminist action from within a non-egalitarian relationship? It wouldn't be feminist to stop doing excessive amounts or housework, because if they were liberated they wouldn't have to be doing excessive housework to start with?

How does this make any sense?

[Rascolnikova]

I have to say, TC, I'm mightily impressed with the way you respond to an honest question with negative rep and an accusation of stupidity. Clearly you're dedicated to contributing and maintaining a high level of discourse.

Since TC will apparently not be responding to my question, I would love to hear from anyone else who understands her point of view; particularly, why the phrase "there's nothing feminist about it" would apply.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I agree with you Rascolnikova. If the definition of feminism is one which only applies to women who are in relationships in which they are equals to their spouse then it is largely a first world phenomenon. I say this because, in many cases, it is only in the first world where ideas such as "love" and "good sex both partners enjoy equally" matter at all in determination of one's spouse. In many areas of the third world (I am not sure of Kenya) marriage is still viewed, at its most basic level, as a business transaction (ditto for having children).

But to go with what was said, if feminism can only apply to women who are in relationships in which sex is not meted down from the man upon the wife, which would give reason for resistance, nor applies to women in relationships who would feel the loss of sex any less than a man, nor applies to women who see sex as a transaction...

Then what word should be used to describe the American womens movement born out of the 1950s in which the woman, whether she wanted to or not, was pretty much at the whim of the mans sexual desires?


On the side, I think every woman I've ever dated has enjoyed sex less than I did, or at the least, wanted to engage in it a lot less (with a few exceptions that were certainly not real relationships). Not that I'm sub-par in bed but men and women, in my experience, see sex as a very different thing and to say that a woman in a relationship shouldn't be in it if she'd miss sex any less than her partner would probably result in a 98% lesbianism rate among women. Just sayin.

[brigadista]

this strike is quite significant given 50 percent of women in Kenya are subject to FGM

and 70 percent of women are not literate.

Under such duress I would support women using any means at their disposal ..


http://www.afrol.com/Categories/Women/profiles/kenya_women.htm


Although experiencing relative political stability, poverty and traditionalism remain two serious obstacles to women's equal rights in Kenya. Government policy, legislation and the media favour women's rights, but the traditional low status of women is hard to overcome in Kenyan society. Kenya is however one of the African countries that has gone farest in addressing women's rights.
Violence against women is a serious and widespread problem.
Traditional culture permits a man to discipline his wife by physical means and is ambivalent about the seriousness of spousal rape. There is no law specifically prohibiting spousal rape.
Continued incidents of rape of refugee women remain a problem.
The problem of child rape and molestation is growing. There are frequent press reports of rape of young girls by middle-aged or older rapists. There were repeated reports of molestation or rape of children by schoolteachers, mostly in rural areas.
70% of illiterate persons in the country are female.
Most customary law disadvantages women, particularly in property rights and inheritance. Under the customary law of most ethnic groups, a woman cannot inherit land, and must live on the land as a guest of male relatives by blood or marriage.
The practice of Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is widespread. About 50% of females nationwide have suffered FGM. Women in Kenya averagely give birth to 3,66 children (2000 est.)

[RedAnarchist]

On the side, I think every woman I've ever dated has enjoyed sex less than I did, or at the least, wanted to engage in it a lot less (with a few exceptions that were certainly not real relationships). Not that I'm sub-par in bed but men and women, in my experience, see sex as a very different thing and to say that a woman in a relationship shouldn't be in it if she'd miss sex any less than her partner would probably result in a 98% lesbianism rate among women. Just sayin.

Then they would be celibate rather than change their entire sexuality, surely?

[TC]

My point is that the sex-for-reformist-political-compromises idea isn't 'heroic' its participating in their own oppression by normalizing as it implicitly recognizing that their husbands are entitled to an unequal sexually exploitive relationship under normal conditions when they're not 'agitating'. That to me isn't that progressive. These women should leave their husbands if possible and if impossible for financial reasons as is likely the case they should organize to attain their own emancipation.

To participate in the very mechanisms that support patriarchy as a way of attaining some goal other than undermining patriarchy, from a perspective uncritical of the patriarchy, actually reinforces the patriarchal ideology. That to me, isn't 'feminist'. Its not necessarily reactionary given the limited freedom of personal and political movement but it should not be made out into something its not. Its like if a woman in a beauty contest wore a button reading "politicians should get along!", the fact that she's a woman, and doing something that women do to much greater extent then men, doesn't make it a feminist, and the fact that she's using her participation on the beauty contest as a platform for the gesture without criticizing the platform, makes it even less so.


p.s. and off topic: I give neg rep to people who deliberately misinterpret my posts for the sake of rhetorical advantage. I don't respond to those who do. If you want to advance your position through intellectual dishonesty at my expense I wont encourage it by helping you do it.

[Rascolnikova]

My point is that the sex-for-reformist-political-compromises idea isn't 'heroic' its participating in their own oppression by normalizing as it implicitly recognizing that their husbands are entitled to an unequal sexually exploitive relationship under normal conditions when they're not 'agitating'. That to me isn't that progressive. These women should leave their husbands if possible and if impossible for financial reasons as is likely the case they should organize to attain their own emancipation.

To participate in the very mechanisms that support patriarchy as a way of attaining some goal other than undermining patriarchy, from a perspective uncritical of the patriarchy, actually reinforces the patriarchal ideology. That to me, isn't 'feminist'.

See, that's an answer; thank you.

Here's what I don't get; how is this element fundamentally different from a normal strike, which also recognizes an exploitative relationship as "normal," and supports it as a means of attaining a goal? Or are you against unions as well?



Its not necessarily reactionary given the limited freedom of personal and political movement but it should not be made out into something its not. Its like if a woman in a beauty contest wore a button reading "politicians should get along!", the fact that she's a woman, and doing something that women do to much greater extent then men, doesn't make it a feminist, and the fact that she's using her participation on the beauty contest as a platform for the gesture without criticizing the platform, makes it even less so.




p.s. and off topic: I give neg rep to people who deliberately misinterpret my posts for the sake of rhetorical advantage. I don't respond to those who do. If you want to advance your position through intellectual dishonesty at my expense I wont encourage it by helping you do it.

1) Sometimes I really am that dense, in real life also; you can ask Reclaimed Dasein, it's frustrating for him regularly. It has nothing (that I'm aware of, at least) to do with dishonesty. It may have to do with autistic characteristics that I hold; a lot of times it takes me a great deal of effort to get to the second layer of meaning in something, rather than taking it exactly at face value. Anyone who knows me well, on the board or off, will confirm this.

2) I wasn't the only person who found your stance confusing; I received positive rep on my post saying so.

I wish you would consider giving people the benefit of the doubt occasionally.

[Dr Mindbender]

They may not call themselves feminists, but the Kenyan women on a sex strike to try to stop government infighting are heroic
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/01/kenya-sex-politics-women)


What do you think about the sex strike in Kenya?


I don't think it will make a huge difference, we all know that politicians are a bunch of wankers.

Sorry I couldnt resist that. :D

[counterblast]

I have to say, TC, I'm mightily impressed with the way you respond to an honest question with negative rep and an accusation of stupidity. Clearly you're dedicated to contributing and maintaining a high level of discourse.

Since TC will apparently not be responding to my question, I would love to hear from anyone else who understands her point of view; particularly, why the phrase "there's nothing feminist about it" would apply.

Women withholding sexual favors from their husbands is somewhat contradictory and certainly not feminist... It may prove to be an effective protest method at achieving these womens' objectives, but it simultaneously reinforces traditional gender roles of man (as someone who is sex-crazed) and woman (as someone too preoccupied to have sexual needs).

[Rascolnikova]

Women withholding sexual favors from their husbands is somewhat contradictory and certainly not feminist... It may prove to be an effective protest method at achieving these womens' objectives, but it simultaneously reinforces traditional gender roles of man (as someone who is sex-crazed) and woman (as someone too preoccupied to have sexual needs).

I think I see your point, but I still don't see how the metaphor of a strike from housework or a general labor strike couldn't be criticized the same way. Do you feel these tactics are similarly problematic?

[rednblack]

Women withholding sexual favors from their husbands is somewhat contradictory and certainly not feminist... It may prove to be an effective protest method at achieving these womens' objectives, but it simultaneously reinforces traditional gender roles of man (as someone who is sex-crazed) and woman (as someone too preoccupied to have sexual needs).

I also see your point, but western cultures at least have long seen women as nymphomaniacal by nature, and it was that supposed aspect of womanhood that led to all manner of evils, FGM among them.

[Pawn Power]

I think I see your point, but I still don't see how the metaphor of a strike from housework or a general labor strike couldn't be criticized the same way. Do you feel these tactics are similarly problematic?

Not to speak for CB, but I think you are misunderstanding their point. Abstaining from sex, as apposed to domestic work, places woman's 'power' in sex (which they apparently don't desire) and not in labor. It also appeals to the authority of men and those in power as those who can make change- in case, supposedly after getting sexually frustrated.

Striking from domestic work or from general labor, while often appealing to power to meet certain demands, places power in the hands of the strikers as a collective force able to dictate conditions regardless of their gender.

[counterblast]

I think I see your point, but I still don't see how the metaphor of a strike from housework or a general labor strike couldn't be criticized the same way. Do you feel these tactics are similarly problematic?

I never said that the Kenyan Sex Strike was problematic, I simply said it seems to have contradictory motives, and therefore probably isn't feminist in nature.

A domestic work strike, is another great example, because while it seems to give women leverage to reach an objective goal, it simultaneously enforces implication that men need women to do housework.

In both instances, I see a contradiction between first-wave feminist (women need to be empowered) and second-wave feminist (gender roles should be scrutinized) theory, but I'm uncertain whether that means we should abandon these strategies altogether.