Substitutionism

[Die Neue Zeit]

"The emancipation of the working class must be the work of the working class itself."

Given the political activity of Marx and Engels, is it substitutionist to suggest that the emancipation of labour must be the [representative] work of the worker class [movement] itself?

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

What sense of 'substitutionism' are you working with? One where the working class substitutes for itself?

[Forward Union]

What they meant was that people act in their self interest. Any liberation should be initiated by the group that wants liberating. It's fairly obvious.

[el_chavista]

In backward countries where there is a very small working class, Che spoke about "other classes appropriating the ideology of the proletariat". Is this a kind of substitutionism?

[Stranger Than Paradise]

In backward countries where there is a very small working class, Che spoke about "other classes appropriating the ideology of the proletariat". Is this a kind of substitutionism?

What does that mean?

[Aurora]

It means countries in which capitalist development has largely been stopped like russia 1917 which had a tiny working class or cuba 1959.In these countries the majority of the population were peasants. They were backward in relation to the advanced capitalist countries like britain or germany were the majority is proletarian.

Jacob i dont understand the question, it seems to be a recurring theme with your posts :p

[Die Neue Zeit]

My apologies:

To what extent of "the class" (as a whole, per those leaning towards spontaneity) does "the [class] movement" encompass? The greater the extent, the more direct and the less representative the class movement becomes. The lesser, however, the more representative and the less direct the class movement is (hence the potential "substitution" of "the [class] movement" for "the class").

Why has much of the left jettisoned the notion that the Marxist "party" form is - beyond mere media organs (newspapers) through militias, cooperatives, educational organizations, recreational clubs, and cultural societies - the direct merger of socialism and the worker-class movement?

[el_chavista]

I'm even not sure about which is the right choise: vanguardism or spontaneity. It is the working class' revolution but its ideology comes from petty bourgeois intelectuals.
[Hopefully you'll figure out my "spanglish"]

[MilitantWorker]

The theory, like the revolution, and communist society comes from the class struggle. Not any one individual class or person.

[InTheMatterOfBoots]

Why has much of the left jettisoned the notion that the Marxist "party" form is - beyond mere media organs (newspapers) through militias, cooperatives, educational organizations, recreational clubs, and cultural societies - the direct merger of socialism and the worker-class movement?

In a word - Lenin. It's very rare to find modern Marxist party's that don't pay some homage to Lenin or Leninism. Lenin didn't believe that the working class were capable of forming a revolutionary consciousness and had to be led by a class conscious vangaurd formed into a communist party. In light of this analysis why bother "merging" with the working class movement when it has nothing to offer but "trade union consciousness"? You should only need to agitate for its leadership. And yes, this is a form of subsitutionism and accounts for much of the introspectiveness and petty infighting that can be found in the trad. left.