Patriotism

[Dóchas]

I was talking to one of my friends recently while we were watching a rugby/football match (i cant remember) and because i wasnt that excited by the match he said "i wasnt patriotic enough". i was slightly taken aback and couldnt really think of anything to say to that. its been bugging me ever since. so i really just want to know two things

1. why is patriotism so bad?
2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

i think i have a good idea for both of the answers but i just want to see what others think about it. it obviously is on the road to nationalist beliefs but its it really that bad to be proad of your origins?

[LeninBalls]

Because patriotism usually gives a sense of superiority and that's a bad thing.

Secondly, "proud of your origins". Why should you be? Why should you be proud that you were born in a certain geographical region where certain inhabitants did a few certain events in that certain geographical you didn't choose to be born in?

[Dóchas]

Secondly, "proud of your origins". Why should you be? Why should you be proud that you were born in a certain geographical region where certain inhabitants did a few certain events in that certain geographical you didn't choose to be born in?

ye i was thinking of saying that but i wasnt sure if it was 100% right so i just left it out but it does make complete sense

[Daz]

I was talking to one of my friends recently while we were watching a rugby/football match (i cant remember) and because i wasnt that excited by the match he said "i wasnt patriotic enough". i was slightly taken aback and couldnt really think of anything to say to that. its been bugging me ever since. so i really just want to know two things

1. why is patriotism so bad?
2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

i think i have a good idea for both of the answers but i just want to see what others think about it. it obviously is on the road to nationalist beliefs but its it really that bad to be proad of your origins?
I have questioned patriotism myself but my conclusion is that patriotism is healthy and natural. As long as it is not imperialistic, I think everyone should be proud of their homeland. I sometimes call myself a Patriotic Socialist

[Dóchas]

I have questioned patriotism myself but my conclusion is that patriotism is healthy and natural. As long as it is not imperialistic, I think everyone should be proud of their homeland. I sometimes call myself a Patriotic Socialist

ye to be a bit pround isnt too bad but the guy i was talking to is pretty nationalist (mainly due to irelands history) but i find it pretty annoying and pointless to be honest

[Rjevan]

Secondly, "proud of your origins". Why should you be? Why should you be proud that you were born in a certain geographical region where certain inhabitants did a few certain events in that certain geographical you didn't choose to be born in?
That's it! Why on earth should I be proud because I was incidentaly born in this country. Why should I be proud because of some people, who were incidentally born here, too, who did great things centuries ago. Why should I be proud of the culture and achievements of this special country?
Had I anything to do with this? Were these my achivements? Hell, no, so why feel proud of them?

You could argue about patriotism being natural ( I don't think so), but "healthy" is it in no way!

[STJ]

Why be proud of where you born? Patriotism does not fit in with our communist ideas.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

1. why is patriotism so bad?

It isn't.

This discussion has been had before:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/patrioitism-t92041/index.html?t=92041

[Dóchas]

It isn't.

This discussion has been had before:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/patrioitism-t92041/index.html?t=92041

I think your link is broken

[Weezer]

1. why is patriotism so bad?

You love your country? Okay.

Loving your country isn't bad, feeling you or your country is superior is. That's Nationalism. Nationalism = bad.



2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

I'm sure others here can think of some.

[Dóchas]

You love your country? Okay.


i didnt say i did i said i thought it was stupid

[Decolonize The Left]

I was talking to one of my friends recently while we were watching a rugby/football match (i cant remember) and because i wasnt that excited by the match he said "i wasnt patriotic enough". i was slightly taken aback and couldnt really think of anything to say to that. its been bugging me ever since. so i really just want to know two things

1. why is patriotism so bad?

Patriotism is dangerous because it can be used to justify morally unacceptable actions.


2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

In the other thread regarding patriotism, mikelepore made an excellent post which answers your question:

I consider it a superstition. A person is born at some space-time coordinates. These coordinates have no inherent meaning, but an imagined importance may be assigned to them. If you believe your life should be ruled by the time coordinate of your birth, that's called astrology. If you believe your life should be ruled by the space coordinates of your birth, that's called patriotism.


i think i have a good idea for both of the answers but i just want to see what others think about it. it obviously is on the road to nationalist beliefs but its it really that bad to be proad of your origins?

There's nothing "bad" about it necessarily - it's just dangerous because it's unfounded.

- August

[Dóchas]

Patriotism is dangerous because it can be used to justify morally unacceptable actions.




im guessing you are talking about a country going to war?

[Mujer Libre]

im guessing you are talking about a country going to war?
Among other things, I would guess.

Mistreatment of refugees/asylum seekers. "Border security" motivated by love of country.

Racism toward immigrants and guest workers etc.

Authoritarian government policies and practices. All for your protection of course.

Besides which, the whole idea of considering your country as more valuable than anywhere else is just ridiculous. For sure, you can appreciate its good points, but surely value is a subjective thing- and to impose te irrational overvaluing of your country over others is sure to elad to bad things- some of which I outlined above. Not to mention that it's completely incompatible with communism/anarchism, which are all about equality and unity of workers and oppressed peoples. How can we be expected to defeat the ruling class and maintain a functioning society if people from different backgrounds/races/countries/regions spend all their time bickering?

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Patriotism is dangerous because it can be used to justify morally unacceptable actions.

So has "the good of the people." Capitalists use all sorts of concepts to justify their actions. It doesn't make the concept wrong, it makes their use of it wrong.


In the other thread regarding patriotism, mikelepore made an excellent post which answers your question:
And Chegitz made an excellent response to that:


By this logic, you shouldn't love your parents or the rest of your family. You should have no special affection towards the people around you as you grow up, since it is merely an accident of birth that you are associated with them. Nothing has any inherent meaning. Meaning is simply a value placed on things by human beings.

[Decolonize The Left]

So has "the good of the people." Capitalists use all sorts of concepts to justify their actions. It doesn't make the concept wrong, it makes their use of it wrong.

I never said it was wrong, I said it was dangerous.


And Chegitz made an excellent response to that:

Not really:

By this logic, you shouldn't love your parents or the rest of your family. You should have no special affection towards the people around you as you grow up, since it is merely an accident of birth that you are associated with them. Nothing has any inherent meaning. Meaning is simply a value placed on things by human beings.


Your parents are individual human beings who have made choices (namely, conceiving and caring for you) to better your existence. Your "country" isn't anything tangible - it's a flag and lines drawn arbitrarily in the ground. Hence the analogy isn't apt.

- August

[JohnnyC]

And Chegitz made an excellent response to that:


By this logic, you shouldn't love your parents or the rest of your family. You should have no special affection towards the people around you as you grow up, since it is merely an accident of birth that you are associated with them. Nothing has any inherent meaning. Meaning is simply a value placed on things by human beings.

There is a clear difference between family and coordinates you were born in.Your family, unlike the coordinates, can communicate with you, love you, and do million other things while the coordinates can really give you nothing more but the excuse to have less sympathy for the people who were born in different place than you.

Here is also my post in that topic.


You can be "patriotic" about your neighbors and your neighborhood, but it's stupid to be patriotic and proud of "your country" and "nation".If you live in London for example, what connects you with someone who lives in Liverpool? (Beside maybe culture and the imaginary country you both belong to)You can love and be proud of only what you see and know, and since none of us met all members of his nation or seen his whole county he can only feel "patriotic" about humans he know and the places he saw.

Also, beside having no logical reason to exist, patriotism also serve to divide working class people with imaginary boundaries made by the ruling class.Patriotism is completely reactionary in all its forms and should have no place in connected global communist society.

Workers have no country
-Marx & Engels-

[Marx22]

1. why is patriotism so bad?

Patriotism often times gets hijacked by capitalists, nationalists/jingoists, and other right-wingers to justify their actions; let it be supporting free-market policies, capitalism itself, giving massive tax cuts to the wealthy, or funding the military-industrial complex, you'll often see clear illogical arguements of "well if you support this you're not a patriot" or "if think capitalism is the best, you're un-patriotic" (or Un-American if you're in the US) as just a tool for their own measures, to benefit them, not the actual workers or for rest of society. As SocialismOrBarbarism pointed out, they use everything in the book to try to make their actions just, and use patriotism to create this "us vs them" scenario that pin people against eachother.

Patriotism is also used by/easily attaches the un-educated or ignorant who get that "I'm/we're the best" attitude from the bourgeois and use the term without knowing what it really means, associating with meaningless things. Like your friend; there is nothing patriotic about football and you should've followed him up on that and questioned his logic. Its like people who bash communism/anarchism/socialism but when you start to question them on the subject, you find out they know nothing at all about any of it.

2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

Patriotism like I pointed out gets used by right wingers and turn it into nationalism and/or jingoism; they use it to pin people against eachother at the hopes of getting some sort of profit for them, not necessarily for the greater good.

[Chicano Shamrock]

That's it! Why on earth should I be proud because I was incidentaly born in this country. Why should I be proud because of some people, who were incidentally born here, too, who did great things centuries ago. Why should I be proud of the culture and achievements of this special country?
Had I anything to do with this? Were these my achivements? Hell, no, so why feel proud of them?

You could argue about patriotism being natural ( I don't think so), but "healthy" is it in no way!
Well that's just it you probably got really lucky to be born there and not in a war torn country. That's certainly something to be proud of or grateful for. I am proud of where I am from including the state and city not really the country.

Like my sig says:

[Pogue]

I was talking to one of my friends recently while we were watching a rugby/football match (i cant remember) and because i wasnt that excited by the match he said "i wasnt patriotic enough". i was slightly taken aback and couldnt really think of anything to say to that. its been bugging me ever since. so i really just want to know two things

1. why is patriotism so bad?
2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

i think i have a good idea for both of the answers but i just want to see what others think about it. it obviously is on the road to nationalist beliefs but its it really that bad to be proad of your origins?

Where you came from, is, as Bill Hicks put it, where your parents had sex. Why on earth would you be proud of that? Its not as if you had much say in it.

Its a fucking rock for christs sake. You've probably only ever been to about 5% of it max. Whats to be proud of? Its so artifical and forced, and yes, aggressive. Its inherently got an nature of dividing people. I belong to my local communitie(s), places I actually spend time in and engage in. The furhtest I could probably form some reigonal identity on is South London, and that doesn't make me a flag waving south london patriot (although i do have a bit of fun cos everyone knows the dutty south is the best but you know). Patriotism is rubbish and baseless and a dead end for the working class.

Class not country. We don't want a fucking repeat of WW1 do we?

[Mindtoaster]

I have questioned patriotism myself but my conclusion is that patriotism is healthy and natural. As long as it is not imperialistic, I think everyone should be proud of their homeland. I sometimes call myself a Patriotic Socialist

I can agree with this sentiment

If I lived in a more progressive country, with a culture I liked more, I would probably be somewhat of a patriot.

I feel proud to be from New Orleans and Louisiana. Why? Because it makes me different from you; i was raised differently, grew up in a different environment, grew up around different music, etc, etc. Where patriotism becomes wrong is when you take that feeling of pride in being different from others and morph it in chauvinism.

[mykittyhasaboner]

1. why is patriotism so bad?
2. what are the arguments against patriotism?

i think i have a good idea for both of the answers but i just want to see what others think about it. it obviously is on the road to nationalist beliefs but its it really that bad to be proad of your origins?

It's quite difficult to answer these questions until we ponder what conditions from which patriotic sentiments come from. Say for example, a country is under military occupation and the native population is brutally oppressed and subjected to numerous crimes (perfect example Gaza Strip). Nationalism or patriotism is simply bound to gain influence among oppressed nationalities because of the severe reality to which they are presented with, and the only solidarity they can find among other oppressed groups is their shared heritage. It's simply a dire situation where people are broken down to their last links with their families, friends, and their homes.

However, if we are dealing with common patriotic tendencies/sentiment present in the US for example, then its a whole different story (I'm guessing this is the kind of patriotism you meant since you were referring to a sports team). Simply put, "patriotism" in this sense, is just a huge distraction. 'Patriots' like to play on emotions and ideals, rather than logically and rationally examining reality; which can potentially lead to horrific distortions of reality among national chauvinists/patriots. Like for example, the unrelenting and banal support of the coalition invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, which is fundamentally based on the idea of "bringing freedom and democracy" to those countries. Obviously "bringing freedom and democracy" is not a very realistic (let alone scientific) way of looking at the nature and context of said invasions; so it is plainly obvious that patriotism simply deludes individuals from consciously observing and studying the nature of class society and class conflict. Feeling pride for 'your country' or whatever is one thing (unfortunately I simply cant understand, on a personal or emotional level, how people feel like this because I happen to hate where I live/grew up, so maybe I'm just biased) but patriotism shows a recurring tendency to descend into downright chauvinism and racism.

Basically, there's two ways to look at it. Neither are very hopeful.

[Ol' Dirty]

The general left position on patriotism (read: nationalism) is that it divides the working class with artificial boundaries. The current immigration problems in Mexico and the United States (my home) are deeply tied to nationalism and racism. One reason why so many working class people are against immigration (especially illegal immigration) is because "the spics are taking my job." The surplus army of labor increases in size, making jobs more difficult to find, increasing the difficulties of working people, especially poor whites.

[mikelepore]

(1) Suppose someone says: "I don't hate anyone, and I love the human race. I'm just especially devoted to the best interests of white men."

(2) Suppose someone says: "I don't hate anyone, and I love the human race. I'm just especially devoted to the best interests of people who were born north of the Rio Grande and south of 45 degrees north latitude."

How can people recognize the bigotry in the first case, but not recognize the bigotry in the second? The irrationality in both cases is of exactly the same type.

There's no escape from this conclusion. Whether people know it or not, to "love your country" is to be poisoned by a form of bigotry.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Your "country" isn't anything tangible - it's a flag and lines drawn arbitrarily in the ground.Because culture, history, language...those are all meaningless.


Its bad because it divides the working class along national borders created by the ruling classes. It has no relevance to class struggle.

No relevance?


Though not in substance, yet in form, the struggle of the proletariat with the bourgeoisie is at first a national struggle. The proletariat of each country must, of course, first of all settle matters with its own bourgeoisie.



It serves to justify bourgeois rule. It is a trick used by the bourgeois in parliamentary elections that help in consolidating their power. Patriotism is used by both left-wing and right-wing politicians, so it is not exclusively a right-wing thing, but a universal tool of parliamentary politicians.So does "democracy."


It is the last refuge of scoundrels (Samuel Johnson).

Interestingly, he seems to have shared the same view that I do:


This line was not, as widely believed, about patriotism in general, but the false use of the term "patriotism" by John Stuart, 3rd Earl of Bute (the patriot-minister) and his supporters; Johnson opposed "self-professed Patriots" in general, but valued what he considered "true" patriotism.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Patriotism can never be a good thing. Sure I like watching Scotland play football and rugby and I do get a bit worked up but that does not necesarily mean I am PROUD of where I am from. It really does not matter at all. Patriotism is something the Capitalists are happy to see continue. The myth that the Capitalists are doing things for the good of the country and that somehow we should all support them because we all happen to be from this piece of land known as a country. They use it all the time to brainwash people. Patriotism is always bad.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

What differentiates the proletariat as a class among different countries, pray tell. Marx's writings are not set in stone.

I dunno..perhaps the fact that they are in different countries? Before the proletariat can win the world they must first win in their respective countries. I'm not sure what's contestable about that statement.


If you think "democracy" as they use it is the democracy Marx is talking about, think again.That's the point. They distort the meaning of words to justify their actions. You can make the same argument against democracy because politicians use the fact that they were "democratically" elected to justify their rule.

[danny bohy]

It isnt bad to love your country. but if u love it stupidly you will support your oppresive government. patriotism also leads to nationalism which leads to racism.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

If I'm in the US, I should look to help and support only those above the Rio Grande and not those below it?

I think it only makes sense that as an American you would fight in American workers struggles.


Patriotism is a Marxist term distorted by the bourgeoisie?No, and neither is democracy. You ignored the point entirely.

You act as if being proud of your country means you can't be an internationalist.


No revolution can be made by a party, but By a Nation.


Long live socialism! Long live patriotism! Long live Internationalism!

[Daz]

That's it! Why on earth should I be proud because I was incidentaly born in this country. Why should I be proud because of some people, who were incidentally born here, too, who did great things centuries ago. Why should I be proud of the culture and achievements of this special country?
Had I anything to do with this? Were these my achivements? Hell, no, so why feel proud of them?

You could argue about patriotism being natural ( I don't think so), but "healthy" is it in no way!
Pride in your country and your people is something you either feel or you don't feel. Where you come from and the people you grew up around play a major role in who you are now. If you lose that special bond with them then you lose a part of your identity, which is not healthy at all.

[LeninBalls]

Because culture, history, language...those are all meaningless.

Sure, those are nice things that we can all enjoy. But why be proud of it? Did you make the language and create the culture? Even then, what single ounce of good does being proud of culture, history and language do?

I mean, I like Irish people. I like our history. I think our language is pretty neat too. At the same time, I love the French language, German history and I love British people. Why can't I be proud of them? Tell me why while refraining from not being born within the same imaginary boundaries of them.

[Daz]

Sure, those are nice things that we can all enjoy. But why be proud of it? Did you make the language and create the culture? Even then, what single ounce of good does being proud of culture, history and language do?

I mean, I like Irish people. I like our history. I think our language is pretty neat too. At the same time, I love the French language, German history and I love British people. Why can't I be proud of them? Tell me why while refraining from not being born within the same imaginary boundaries of them.
Pride does not always mean feeling superior or being the cause of something. Being proud of something you are a part of is a feeling of satisfaction and acceptance of where you belong.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Pride does not always mean feeling superior or being the cause of something. Being proud of something you are a part of is a feeling of satisfaction and acceptance of where you belong.

Where you belong? We belong on planet earth, we don't BELONG in a certain part of it. We all belong everywhere.

[LeninBalls]

Being proud of something you are a part of is a feeling of satisfaction and acceptance of where you belong.

And what relevance will that effect you or anyone else's life, ever?

[pastradamus]

Patriotism is supporting your government when it deserves it and not supporting it when it dosent.

[Cynical Observer]

Patriotism substitutes one class (the American/Mexican/German) for the traditional Proletariat vs bourgeoisie, in the end u still have dis-unity and a class system on a global scale. I oppose patriotism as adamantly as i oppose religion.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Why only American? why not Mexican or Canadian?

Because you live in America? Are you going to trek over to Mexico every day, participate in a strike, fly to Canada, speak at a rally, then come home? Why do you contest the idea that revolutions will first happen at the national level?


Democracy is a genuine goal for socialism, whereas patriotism is not.Again, you ignored the point completely.


I don't know what "'being proud" has to do with patriotism. Everyone is naturally proud of their family and the culture they were brought up with until they find out some nasty realities about those "cultures". So, my point is that while not forgetting your roots, it should be essential that you don't get mired in those roots. There can be no socialism in one country.Who brought up anything about socialism in one country?


Also Castro, Stalin, Kim Jong-il and other tyrants have long used patriotism to consolidate their power and control over their people. so don't throw Castro's quotes at me. This should prove that patriotism is indeed anti-democratic and a cover for tyranny.Castro is a tyrant? As I've pointed out before, everything has been used as an excuse for tyranny. Tyrants have commited genocide "for the good of the people." They justify wars because they're perpetrated by "democratically" elected leaders or trying to "establish democracy." It's idiotic to believe that the second a leader uses a word to justify some unacceptable action that the concept it refers to is automatically anti-democratic. If that were the case democracy itself would be anti-democratic.


Again, don't throw Marx's quotes to answer questions. Tell me what you think, instead of allowing Marx to think for you.That was in response to you throwing a Marx quote at me.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

In this case, though patriotism is used by tyrants, it has no relevance to socialism. Its not as if patriotism has been "tainted" because tyrants used it to justify their tyranny. It is always tainted.

I think it has plenty of relevance from a revolutionary standpoint. Wouldn't someone who likes their country be a lot more pissed to see it ravaged by capitalism than someone who doesn't, hates the people, the culture, and enjoys seeing it destroyed?

What would piss you off more, your home being destroyed or your neighbors?


The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who loves his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
Unless you accept the concept of modern bourgeois nation states as legitimate, patriotism is bogus. If you accept the current states as legitimate divisions of humanity, then perhaps you have to re-consider your understanding of Marxism/Anarchism.

I don't, and I don't think that is a requirement for someone to call themselves patriotic.


Among the ancient Greeks, patriotism consisted of notions concerning language, religious traditions, ethics, law and devotion to the common good, rather than pure identification with a nation-state.

[Brother No. 1]

1. why is patriotism so bad?

Patriotism got humanity into 2 world Wars so other then that it has dont other worse things. Patriotism in this Capitalist state is to be "proud and honored" of this nation. So Patrioism in America=Nationalism. Other then "American Patriotism" there is always the Patriotism that got All of the world into both WW1 and WW2. WW1 was all around Patrotism while WW2 only the axis were formed around Patrotism forged with Facism.





2. what are the arguments against patriotism?


for it gives a Nationalist view on ones country in my view here in Texas.

[Il Medico]

Patriotism is bad because it leads to nationalism and in itself is a sense of superiority. Nationalism leads only to fascism, racism, and genocide. Patriotism being the root is by far just as evil.
Remember my comrades, we are nothing but human. Our race, creed, nationality, or place of origin matters not. The only thing that matters is the brother or sister fighting along side you.
To revolution my friends!
Captain Jack.

[black magick hustla]

Patriotism is not "bad" but it is outside the sphere of socialist politics, for socialist politics concerns with international classes not the economic unit called the nation-state that became the basis for capitalism in the 19th century. To hell with the nation-state and all the flags. I think the nation-state will dissolve when capitalism, the final stage where there is exploitation of man by man, goes down.

[Eva]

There is a strong difference between patriotism and cultural identity. Patriotism entails citizenship, commitment and loyalty to a given community. Cultural identity refers solely to a community's distinguishing social characteristics. While cultural identity is natural and healthy, there is a direct correlation between patriotism and war propensity. Cultural identity is not attached in any way to patriotism.

[und]

I personally have family members who live in Turkey, and I'm proud that I was born in and live in a country (UK) which will not arrest myself or my father for being on the left. People under the age of 16 have been shot in Turkey for handing out leftist newspapers, and my father was arrested, tortured and held in prison for 2 years with no charge, for what? For being a communist. This country is what gave my parents refuge, away from those worries. The UK has given me more than I will be able to give back, and I'm proud that I live in a country where people are allowed to express their thoughts (more) freely. Does that make me a patriot? I think not.

Adding to that, I can't imagine what life must be like for open-minded people where there are religious or fascist regimes in place, preventing anything from changing.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

There is a strong difference between patriotism and cultural identity. Patriotism entails citizenship, commitment and loyalty to a given community. Cultural identity refers solely to a community's distinguishing social characteristics. While cultural identity is natural and healthy, there is a direct correlation between patriotism and war propensity. Cultural identity is not attached in any way to patriotism.

I agree. I think the people hwo have mentioned to be patriots on this board are really talking about having cultural indentity.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

I agree. I think the people hwo have mentioned to be patriots on this board are really talking about having cultural indentity.


I agree. I think the people hwo have mentioned to be patriots on this board are really talking about having cultural indentity.

Well, as I've tried to point out, the bourgeoisie have corrupted the term and separated it from its original meaning. They've done it with the word democracy, they've done it with the word libertarian, etc.


Among the ancient Greeks, patriotism consisted of notions concerning language, religious traditions, ethics, law and devotion to the common good, rather than pure identification with a nation-state. Scholar J. Peter Euben writes that for the Greek philosopher Socrates, "patriotism does not require one to agree with everything that his country does and would actually promote analytical questioning in a quest to make the country the best it possibly can be."

During the 18th century Age of Enlightenment, the notion of patriotism continued to be separate from the notion of nationalism. Instead, patriotism was defined as devotion to humanity and beneficence. For example, providing charity, criticizing slavery, and denouncing excessive penal laws were all considered patriotic. In both ancient and modern visions of patriotism, individual responsibility to fellow citizens is an inherent component of patriotism.

Many contemporary notions of patriotism are influenced by 19th century ideas about nationalism. During the 19th century, "being patriotic" became increasingly conflated with nationalism, and even jingoism. However, some notions of contemporary patriotism reject nationalism in favor of a more classic version of the idea of patriotism which includes social responsibility.