Dangerous Threats and Pressure Against North Korea!

[China studen]

Dangerous Threats and Pressure Against North Korea!




Reprinted from The Worker, newspaper of the Workers Party, USA.




April 16, 2009




On April 5, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) launched a communications satellite into space. The launch of a communications satellite is part of the DPRK’s development of space technology and is its sovereign right.




U.S. imperialism reacted to the DPRK's announcement that it would launch the satellite by labeling it a “provocation” and began dangerously escalating its propaganda against the DPRK. The U.S. and its close ally Japan immediately began threatening military attack against the DPRK. After the DPRK announced the successful placement of the satellite into orbit, the U.S. and Japan began calling on the UN Security Council to impose tightened sanctions on the DPRK.




The U.S. is attempting to discard the principles of international law which are based on the sovereign equality of every country. The U.S. government has announced that the “DPRK can't be trusted” and because it has been judged and condemned by the emperors of Washington, D.C., the DPRK is not entitled to the same rights as those nations blessed by the U.S. U.S. imperialism is again declaring itself the judge, jury and executioner of the peoples. It is declaring that it alone can decide which countries are sovereign and entitled to develop space technology and which aren't.




This warmongering and pressure is a continuation of the U.S. government's 59-year war against Korea. Since 1950, U.S. imperialism has occupied the Korean peninsula with tens of thousands of troops and filled south Korea with every conceivable weapon, including nuclear weapons. By force of arms, U.S. imperialism has maintained the partition of Korea and carried out a continuous encirclement of the DPRK - militarily, economically, politically, diplomatically, etc.




In recent years, U.S. imperialism has increased its pressure and threats against the DPRK. Successive U.S. administrations have tried to create hysteria about the alleged “nuclear threat” from the DPRK, and branded it as a “rogue state” and part of the “axis of evil.” The U.S. government openly advertises its plans for nuclear strikes against the DPRK and regularly engages in “war games” based on these plans. The goal of the U.S. is to overthrow the existing economic and political system in the DPRK and assert its dictate over the country.




The struggle of the DPRK to develop its scientific and technological capacity and to defend its sovereign rights in the face of U.S. pressure is a just struggle which contributes to the defense of peace, international law and the rights of nations.




We demand an end to U.S. provocations, threats, and pressure against the DPRK!




We demand the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from South Korea and Asia!

[STJ]

Get those American troops out of every foreign country.

[Delirium]

The DPRK really doesn't face any threat from the united states. They know this, America knows it. North Korea has both nuclear weapons and a standing army of a million of the best trained soldiers in the world. Any military action against the DPRK by the united states would be disastrous for the united states and the ROK (likely japan also).

[travisdandy2000]

It is only because of the DPRK's nuclear capability and policy of putting the gun before the hammer sickle, that they are not attacked by western imperialism, if they had suffered under a capitalist-nationalist regime like Iraq they would be dust by now. Even under current condidtions of an alert and armed population in the DPRK it is absurd to think that a western threat does not exsist, ecspecialy with imperialist-capitalist Japan using the DPRK as an excuse to rebuild it's military and threaten attack.

[Delirium]

It is only because of the DPRK's nuclear capability and policy of putting the gun before the hammer sickle, that they are not attacked by western imperialism, if they had suffered under a capitalist-nationalist regime like Iraq they would be dust by now. Even under current condidtions of an alert and armed population in the DPRK it is absurd to think that a western threat does not exsist, ecspecialy with imperialist-capitalist Japan using the DPRK as an excuse to rebuild it's military and threaten attack.

I completely agree with you.

Economic warfare does pose a threat to the DPRK, though any military escalation would likely be detrimental to the US, ROK, and Japan. Any military conflict would risk bringing in China also.

[Revy]

North Korea is not socialist.
And I'm pretty sure I'd rather live in South Korea than North Korea.
It's obviously not a threat, I sure feel safer from Kim Jong-il than his people do.

[Yazman]

I would like to see evidence that it was a communications satellite or that it even got into orbit, because so far there's nothing thats been given.

I would also like to add that the most dangerous threats are coming straight from North Korea - they're the only ones threatening to start up the war again, and quite frankly I'm getting tired of the stupid empty threats.

[AvanteRedGarde]

Did you hear that everyone? Yazman, sitting from the comfort of his basement, is "getting tired" of the DPRK's threats.

Geez dude. You should be staffed on the Glen Beck or O Reilly show.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

The US wants to enslave the world, but they know they're too weak to do so.
They've lost the war against Vietnam, they are losing against Al Qaeda and in Iraq and they know they would be slaughtered if they attacked the North Koreans.
The North Korean army is one of the best trained in the world, well-equipped and extremely determined to fight and die for the People.

The US army would be slaughtered in a war against North Korea. No matter how strong any army is, if the People are truly determined they will always gain victory.

[Sasha]

The US wants to enslave the world, but they know they're too weak to do so.
They've lost the war against Vietnam, they are losing against Al Qaeda and in Iraq and they know they would be slaughtered if they attacked the North Koreans.
The North Korean army is one of the best trained in the world, well-equipped and extremely determined to fight and die for the People.

The US army would be slaughtered in a war against North Korea. No matter how strong any army is, if the People are truly determined they will always gain victory.

hail hail hail! long live empty rethorics!!! may the birds sing and the sun shine on the people and her glorious leaders! hail hail hail!

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

hail hail hail! long live empty rethorics!!! may the birds sing and the sun shine on the people and her glorious leaders! hail hail hail!
Okay? What's the problem?

I just say you can't possibly win a war if the People are strongly united in opposition against you.
Proves: USSR in WWII, Vietnam (peasants with old-fashioned rifles against the "best army in the world", FARC,...

[Salyut]

I would like to see evidence that it was a communications satellite or that it even got into orbit, because so far there's nothing thats been given.

Its currently in a sub aquatic orbit.


North Korea has both nuclear weapons and a standing army of a million of the best trained soldiers in the world.

Oh they have the numbers alright - but quality wise they're far, far below South Korea. They're also really short on fuel for tanks and stuff.

[Sasha]

@ wakasiki the idiot

next to empty rethorics and a simplistic understanding of the actual world (for example, since when does al-qaeda have the united people behind them?) you can only make the leap from the WW2 and vietnam to north korea presuming that "the people" actualy support the north korean regime... (wich they dont imho)

besides i think the german people backed the nazi's/wehrmacht in at least the same persentages as the russian people did the red army.

and the farc might not been defeated but they are not excactly wining "tha war" either now are they?

[Salyut]

@ wakasiki the idiot
besides i think the german people backed the nazi's/wehrmacht in at least the same persentages as the russian people did the red army.

The Red Army was also a professional military force - you can't really compare it to the NLF.

Now, Castro in Cuba...Thats a better example of a popular movement.

[STJ]

I am always suprised when leftists support the DPRK.

[LeninBalls]

I am always suprised when leftists support the DPRK.

How come

[Cumannach]

I would also like to add that the most dangerous threats are coming straight from North Korea - they're the only ones threatening to start up the war again, and quite frankly I'm getting tired of the stupid empty threats.
:lol:

They're a threat to global security right? Those damn axis of evil bastards.

[STJ]

;)
How come
Cuz of that mad man the Dear Leader in control of that country.

[Yazman]

:lol:

They're a threat to global security right? Those damn axis of evil bastards.

Right you moron, do not characterise me as some sort of fucking idiot who thinks they are "a threat." The same goes for the idiot up there who obviously tried to do the same thing (AvanteRedGarde).

What I said was that the vast majority of militaristic threats are coming from North Korea, and quite simply its quite pathetic. I don't really know what they hope to achieve by threatening total war with the South, and with their talk of launching nukes.

Its really fucking stupid and I'm tired of empty threats. They are desperately saying anything they can in the hopes of gaining an "edge" in negotiations, and they aren't going to get one because none of the imperialist powers, or south korea, have shown that they will cave to any of these threats.

What, then, are they hoping to achieve? Plunge the korean people into a horribly destructive war that they have no hope of winning? If they want to be able to present a much more credible case to other peoples and other countries, well they'd better quit making these ridiculous threats. Because I'm not going to support a regime that threatens nuclear war every time imperialists come knocking on their door.

[AvanteRedGarde]

I am always suprised when leftists support the DPRK.

I'm not really surprised anymore when leftist support the USA. Yazman sounds like a downright rightist nationalist, ranting about the 'threat' that North Korea poses and all.

The DPRK started out as a genuine revolutionary project, pitted against extreme forces of reaction. Obviously an external threat is going to result in the centralization of power. The conditions, material and subjective, inside North Korea are due more to its relation with the world, i.e. being under constant attack, than the leftist Great Man theory repackaged as a lay psychological breakdown of Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il. Obviously the DPRK is not socialist: they are not heading towards communism in any regard. However, the Northern Korean masses should be applauded for holding out so long against the insurmountable odds imposed on it by imperialism.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

@ wakasiki the idiot

next to empty rethorics and a simplistic understanding of the actual world (for example, since when does al-qaeda have the united people behind them?) you can only make the leap from the WW2 and vietnam to north korea presuming that "the people" actualy support the north korean regime... (wich they dont imho)

besides i think the german people backed the nazi's/wehrmacht in at least the same persentages as the russian people did the red army.

and the farc might not been defeated but they are not excactly wining "tha war" either now are they?
Obviously you do not understand the situation there, if you really believe the North Korean People would support an American invasion of their country.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

I am always suprised when leftists support the DPRK.
I am always surprised when leftists don't.

[China studen]

Get those American troops out of every foreign country.


South Korea in particular.

[China studen]

The DPRK really doesn't face any threat from the united states. They know this, America knows it. North Korea has both nuclear weapons and a standing army of a million of the best trained soldiers in the world. Any military action against the DPRK by the united states would be disastrous for the united states and the ROK (likely japan also).


However, the blockade of North Korea by the United States and serious hostility. This has constrained its economic construction.

[China studen]

North Korea is not socialist.
And I'm pretty sure I'd rather live in South Korea than North Korea.
It's obviously not a threat, I sure feel safer from Kim Jong-il than his people do.


Nonsense!

To judge a system based on the economic system. Public ownership and plans to implement the Korean economy, Korea is the most pure socialist country.

[China studen]

I would like to see evidence that it was a communications satellite or that it even got into orbit, because so far there's nothing thats been given.

I would also like to add that the most dangerous threats are coming straight from North Korea - they're the only ones threatening to start up the war again, and quite frankly I'm getting tired of the stupid empty threats.

1, North Korea is capable of breaking the imperialist threat. Finally, to launch satellites. This is the victory.

2, can be arbitrary and imperialist invasion of other countries. As the oppressed party, North Korea in order to surround the country. Does North Korea have no right to make threats of imperialism, it?

3, you are a stupid pug U.S. imperialism - not only to steal a horse to do anything!

[China studen]

Did you hear that everyone? Yazman, sitting from the comfort of his basement, is "getting tired" of the DPRK's threats.

Geez dude. You should be staffed on the Glen Beck or O Reilly show.

Yazman is out-and-out reactionaries!

[China studen]

The US wants to enslave the world, but they know they're too weak to do so.
They've lost the war against Vietnam, they are losing against Al Qaeda and in Iraq and they know they would be slaughtered if they attacked the North Koreans.
The North Korean army is one of the best trained in the world, well-equipped and extremely determined to fight and die for the People.

The US army would be slaughtered in a war against North Korea. No matter how strong any army is, if the People are truly determined they will always gain victory.

Korean people will struggle with the firm. Even if the invading imperialists will certainly fail.

[China studen]

hail hail hail! long live empty rethorics!!! may the birds sing and the sun shine on the people and her glorious leaders! hail hail hail!

I saw your head. I would have guessed you are reactionaries!

[China studen]

@ wakasiki the idiot

next to empty rethorics and a simplistic understanding of the actual world (for example, since when does al-qaeda have the united people behind them?) you can only make the leap from the WW2 and vietnam to north korea presuming that "the people" actualy support the north korean regime... (wich they dont imho)

besides i think the german people backed the nazi's/wehrmacht in at least the same persentages as the russian people did the red army.

and the farc might not been defeated but they are not excactly wining "tha war" either now are they?

You are an idiot dog.

If you really understand Korean, you will know the Korean people's love and loyalty to leaders is sincere. Even the bourgeoisie, when they come into contact with the Korean people, will be able to truly determine this fact.

[China studen]

I am always suprised when leftists support the DPRK.

I am surprised that - there are so many right dogs in here posing as leftist.

[China studen]

;)
Cuz of that mad man the Dear Leader in control of that country.

The great leader General Kim Jong Il. Only he has the ability and the acumen to defend and develop the socialist North Korea.

[China studen]

Right you moron, do not characterise me as some sort of fucking idiot who thinks they are "a threat." The same goes for the idiot up there who obviously tried to do the same thing (AvanteRedGarde).

What I said was that the vast majority of militaristic threats are coming from North Korea, and quite simply its quite pathetic. I don't really know what they hope to achieve by threatening total war with the South, and with their talk of launching nukes.

Its really fucking stupid and I'm tired of empty threats. They are desperately saying anything they can in the hopes of gaining an "edge" in negotiations, and they aren't going to get one because none of the imperialist powers, or south korea, have shown that they will cave to any of these threats.

What, then, are they hoping to achieve? Plunge the korean people into a horribly destructive war that they have no hope of winning? If they want to be able to present a much more credible case to other peoples and other countries, well they'd better quit making these ridiculous threats. Because I'm not going to support a regime that threatens nuclear war every time imperialists come knocking on their door.


Expectations of you what is it? The Korean people to abandon the revolution, and then you act as a slave of imperialism? !

Ridiculous!

[China studen]

I'm not really surprised anymore when leftist support the USA. Yazman sounds like a downright rightist nationalist, ranting about the 'threat' that North Korea poses and all.

The DPRK started out as a genuine revolutionary project, pitted against extreme forces of reaction. Obviously an external threat is going to result in the centralization of power. The conditions, material and subjective, inside North Korea are due more to its relation with the world, i.e. being under constant attack, than the leftist Great Man theory repackaged as a lay psychological breakdown of Kim Il Sung or Kim Jong Il. Obviously the DPRK is not socialist: they are not heading towards communism in any regard. However, the Northern Korean masses should be applauded for holding out so long against the insurmountable odds imposed on it by imperialism.


North Korea's socialism is in line with the country-specific - the Korean-style socialism.

[Sasha]

blah blah blah, now please refrain from spamming and calling people names and proof you can actualy think for yourself instead of belching out empty rethorics.

[Rusty Shackleford]

honestly, no state can exist independantly as a socialist one, the threat of imperialismleads to defensiveness and militarism. the need for a vanguard is justified by those proposing it on the basis that they need to defend communism form counter-revolutionaries and such.

i think the U.S. should just back the fuck off from DPRK. this constant barraging of "NK this, NK that" is making them very conservative(power wise) and destroying the ideals of socialism. and sadly because of this, the state has a large budget for the military just for self defense, instead of being able to work on infrastructure and so on.

if i seem misinformed please tell me.

[absurdao]

I'm actually a bit amazed to see people supporting the North Korean government - a government that starves its own people, jails and executes dissenters, etc. I'm weary of the US intervening militarily anywhere, but North Korea's government is one that needs to be overthrown... and hopefully will be by its own people. However, it won't be easy - their society is strictly monitored and cult-like.
One thing that should be noted about myself - I may be a leftist, but I'm much more anti-authoritarian than anti-right wing. I'm happy to be an American - sure, we have our problems (most notably, economic disparities), but we're a very open society, and I'm grateful for that. I have no respect for anyone who supports the bolsheviks, and I have contempt for those who would proclaim themselves Stalinists. I am against any closed, authoritarian society, whether it be right-wing or leftist in nature.

[absurdao]

You are an idiot dog.

If you really understand Korean, you will know the Korean people's love and loyalty to leaders is sincere. Even the bourgeoisie, when they come into contact with the Korean people, will be able to truly determine this fact.

You're the "idiot dog" - North Koreans are constantly trying to escape from the oppression of North Korea. Note the large North Korean refugee populations in South Korea, Thailand, Japan, China and Canada. The citizens of North Korea are trying desperately to escape, because escape from there means escape from poverty and misery.

[absurdao]

Also note that the leaders of places like North Korea ARE the bourgeoisie - they've just warped and mangled Marx's words in ways that fit their own desires. The same goes for Stalin, Mao, etc. - all of whom are mass murderers.

[Oktyabr]

Ugh, you would think that after coming close how many times to freaking nuclear war, the very thought of which mentally scarred our society forever, we would have enough sense not to try and provoke one.

And I have to agree with STJ, North Korea does'nt paint a very good portrait of the theories of Marx and Lenin, and plus with the totalitarian style of government, its not even close to direct democracy, which Marx himself hoped to see in a communist society.

[absurdao]

its not even close to direct democracy

Exactly. This is why I don't consider North Korea, the former Soviet Union, or Maoist China to be communist - they were just warped, totalitarian states under the false guise of bastardized pseudo-Marxist thought.

[Glenn Beck]

I may be a leftist, but I'm much more anti-authoritarian than anti-right wing. I'm happy to be an American

:laugh:

[hero(W)IN]

I'm happy to see that at least some people here do support the DPRK. The posters who do not have made no relevant points except to repeat the usual vague accusations which rightists make against every socialist state. If you're going to turn your backs on DPRK, why not Cuba? Why not listen to the sensationalistic propaganda against every socialist country, from Venezuela to Belarus?

I once had the same assumptions about North Korea as anyone else, because the default is to accept what we hear in the media unflinchingly. But after reading the history of the DPRK, particularly Bruce Cuming's The Origins of the Korean War, my educated opinion is that the DPRK is well worth standing up for, and that the current accusations against it are just the latest in a long line of false and/or hypocritical propaganda by the capitalist media and states. They are not now, nor did they EVER "starve their own people". The user who stated that should really think more about it, rather than leaving CNN on and allowing their brain to turn to uncritical mush. If you oppose the DPRK, maybe you think you are being "more leftist than leftist," but really you are turning your back on the socialist state which is in most dire need of international solidarity at this point.

Read and reflect on that country's situation. Don't just react.

Warning: this is the issue I care most about now, so if you respond, be prepared for a lengthy debate!

[absurdao]

:laugh:

I know that our society is becoming much more closed, and is clearly heading in a more totalitarian direction. However, as it is, we're much more open than many other parts of the world.

[absurdao]

I'm happy to see that at least some people here do support the DPRK. The posters who do not have made no relevant points except to repeat the usual vague accusations which rightists make against every socialist state. If you're going to turn your backs on DPRK, why not Cuba? Why not listen to the sensationalistic propaganda against every socialist country, from Venezuela to Belarus?

I once had the same assumptions about North Korea as anyone else, because the default is to accept what we hear in the media unflinchingly. But after reading the history of the DPRK, particularly Bruce Cuming's The Origins of the Korean War, my educated opinion is that the DPRK is well worth standing up for, and that the current accusations against it are just the latest in a long line of false and/or hypocritical propaganda by the capitalist media and states. They are not now, nor did they EVER "starve their own people". The user who stated that should really think more about it, rather than leaving CNN on and allowing their brain to turn to uncritical mush. If you oppose the DPRK, maybe you think you are being "more leftist than leftist," but really you are turning your back on the socialist state which is in most dire need of international solidarity at this point.

Read and reflect on that country's situation. Don't just react.

Warning: this is the issue I care most about now, so if you respond, be prepared for a lengthy debate!

Cuba and Venezuela are much better off than North Korea, that's obvious. If you don't think that much of North Korea is miserable, then you obviously haven't been listening to what the refugees have been saying. Don't believe the western propaganda, but also don't believe eastern propaganda. It all exists to support the corrupt authoritarian government systems, whether they be on the left or the right - though the ones that are supposedly on the left are actually much further to the right than I think anyone realizes. I agree that we need to send aid to North Korea, and be more supportive of the people. But that's just it: their government is corrupt, and I feel that it should be removed - not through war, but through sending the people of North Korea aid. I agree that the America propaganda machine unjustly demonizes places like Cuba and Venezuela, and I say this because many of the people in Cuba and Venezuela are very happy. There are human rights abuses in those places, but there are also human rights abuses in the US. However, I'm sure that the totalitarian North Korean government is incredibly cruel to its people. I don't know if I'm prepared or willing to debate you on this, but I would like to see your evidence for things over there "not being so bad".

[hero(W)IN]

Cuba and Venezuela are much better off than North Korea, that's obvious. If you don't think that much of North Korea is miserable, then you obviously haven't been listening to what the refugees have been saying [...] I'm sure that the totalitarian North Korean government is incredibly cruel to its people. I don't know if I'm prepared or willing to debate you on this, but I would like to see your evidence for things over there "not being so bad".

Where could I find some statements by these "refugees," and do you think they may be similar to the Cuban ex-patriots in Miami? All countries have emigrants. I doubt there are any more from North Korea than, say, Mexico.

I have never seen any evidence that North Korea's government is "incredibly cruel". The burden of truth lies with the accuser, so... I am all ears.:cool:

As you know, it's nearly impossible to access unbiased information about this country, but one of the closest to objective which I've seen is the documentary A State of Mind, which you can find on youtube. Unlike pretty much all other docs about the DPRK, it avoids sensationalism and lets the people and situations speak for themselves. Although at times, the narration still reads to much into things, laughably (watch, you'll see what I mean... a gymnast following orders from her instructor becomes, to the narrator, an example of Communism's "submission of the individual to the group"... if that's the case, should we bomb all the dance studios, and any other club or group which requires discipline and teamwork?)

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

If you're going to turn your backs on DPRK, why not Cuba? Why not listen to the sensationalistic propaganda against every socialist country, from Venezuela to Belarus?

I'm sorry, but...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I find it easiest to look to the dear leaders own writings instead of the media.


To acquire a revolutionary outlook on the leader means to devote oneself to the leader, with a correct understanding that the leader is the centre of the socio-political organism, and hold him in high esteem with a pure heart.

The leader is the centre of the socio-political organism and the top-intellect. The masses can make up a socio-political organism capable of independent existence only when they are united solidly behind the leader, both organizationally and ideologically.

In order to be loyal to the revolution with the Juche outlook on the revolution, officials must also have an unshakable revolutionary view on the leader.

Unless you are loyal to the leader, you cannot be loyal to the party, to the people or to the revolution. This is the very reason why a revolutionary attitude towards the leader is the nucleus of the Juche outlook on the revolution and why loyalty towards the leader is the lifeblood of the communist revolutionaries of the Juche type.

Is that indicative of a healthy proletarian democracy?

[JohnnyC]

I find it easiest to look to the dear leaders own writings instead of the media.


To acquire a revolutionary outlook on the leader means to devote oneself to the leader, with a correct understanding that the leader is the centre of the socio-political organism, and hold him in high esteem with a pure heart.

The leader is the centre of the socio-political organism and the top-intellect. The masses can make up a socio-political organism capable of independent existence only when they are united solidly behind the leader, both organizationally and ideologically.

In order to be loyal to the revolution with the Juche outlook on the revolution, officials must also have an unshakable revolutionary view on the leader.

Unless you are loyal to the leader, you cannot be loyal to the party, to the people or to the revolution. This is the very reason why a revolutionary attitude towards the leader is the nucleus of the Juche outlook on the revolution and why loyalty towards the leader is the lifeblood of the communist revolutionaries of the Juche type.

Is that indicative of a healthy proletarian democracy?
This sounds more like it was written by a sect leader than by a communist. :laugh:

[Blackscare]

Did you hear that everyone? Yazman, sitting from the comfort of his basement, is "getting tired" of the DPRK's threats.


You could use that line to make any one of us look silly in a discussion, because when you get down to it we're all just sitting in our respective comfortable locales discussing shit we for the most part have no part in.


Try using real arguments and defending your position next time.

Edit

I'm not really surprised anymore when leftist support the USA. Yazman sounds like a downright rightist nationalist, ranting about the 'threat' that North Korea poses and all.Who the fuck stated that they support the USA? And what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Also, Yazman was ranting about the pathetic "empty threats" of the North and the appearance of instability such behavior gives, not asserting that they WERE an actual threat. Far from rah-rah get-the-commie jingoism, like you make it sound.

Edit # 2

(Wishkazi something-or other, at psycho)

Obviously you do not understand the situation there, if you really believe the North Korean People would support an American invasion of their country.

He said that he didn't believe that the people of the DPRK really supported their government, which is very different from suggesting that they would invite invasion. It's not his duty to answer for your inane extrapolations.


I suppose any criticism of anything that calls itself socialist is unacceptable to some people.

[Rusty Shackleford]

i feel the DPRK would be MUCH better without a dear leader. or any type of authoritarian gov't.

i think the first step in rehabilitating DPRK is through international aid to the peolpe..
i think what would come next is the removal of Kim Jong Il. the man may very well be using his own nation for his personal benefit. even then though, hes going to die soon anyways.

i suppport the PEOPLE of DPRK and the average soldier, but no one in the heirarchy. if the things they say about their fanatacism is true, hope for the people could be lost for a generation. and the biggest fear is, that after a revolution in that nation, most likely capitalists will assume control. or ROK will unify.

[Glenn Beck]

Why does every discussion about Korea veer into an off-topic whine-fest between people who think their opposition to Kim Jong-Il matters and those who will brook no criticism of the 'Dear Leader'?

Can we, just once, actually have a discussion without it turning into a scene from Team America?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Why does every discussion about Korea veer into an off-topic whine-fest between people who think their opposition to Kim Jong-Il matters and those who will brook no criticism of the 'Dear Leader'?

Can we, just once, actually have a discussion without it turning into a scene from Team America?


well, thats a pretty respectable post.

along with the topic of pressure, the media is starting to gear up on the "theyre about to test nukes" and also, Hillary clinton said "no interest and no willingness to give North Korea further economic aid"
more http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-04-30-voa63.cfm

[Cumannach]

Why does every discussion about Korea veer into an off-topic whine-fest between people who think their opposition to Kim Jong-Il matters and those who will brook no criticism of the 'Dear Leader'?

Can we, just once, actually have a discussion without it turning into a scene from Team America?

The reason a discussion about North Korea usually degenerates is because many 'leftists' on here seem determined to play the role of Bill O'Reilly on revleft. I mean really, North Korea's jingoism?! North Korea's war mongering threats? This isn't serious, this is planet Fox.

[AvanteRedGarde]

Right on

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

The reason a discussion about North Korea usually degenerates is because many 'leftists' on here seem determined to play the role of Bill O'Reilly on revleft.

Or a North Korean propaganda minister...

[Cumannach]

:rolleyes: See what I mean?

[Blackscare]

:rolleyes: See what I mean?


So any criticism is uncalled for? Sorry, but many of us aren't willing to support anything that calls itself socialism, simply because it does. There's nothing particularly good about the government of the DPRK, so I'm not going to defend it out of some absurd duty to support anything calling itself socialist. If anything, the Left should be distancing itself from nutty shit like Juche and the DPRK's government, not defending it.

[China studen]

I'm actually a bit amazed to see people supporting the North Korean government - a government that starves its own people, jails and executes dissenters, etc. I'm weary of the US intervening militarily anywhere, but North Korea's government is one that needs to be overthrown... and hopefully will be by its own people. However, it won't be easy - their society is strictly monitored and cult-like.
One thing that should be noted about myself - I may be a leftist, but I'm much more anti-authoritarian than anti-right wing. I'm happy to be an American - sure, we have our problems (most notably, economic disparities), but we're a very open society, and I'm grateful for that. I have no respect for anyone who supports the bolsheviks, and I have contempt for those who would proclaim themselves Stalinists. I am against any closed, authoritarian society, whether it be right-wing or leftist in nature.

Fart!

Imperialist slander the socialist countries is often "closed." In fact, only the suppression of the Korean reactionaries. As the suppression of the capitalist countries was only the ruling class - the proletariat. Do you like the simple reason that the United States. Because you are a fully bourgeois reactionaries! An enemy of the proletariat!

[Sasha]

you can call a pile of dogshit a cupcake and even put some frosting and sprinkels on it but it will always remain shit and touching it will get your hands dirty.

north korea is just as socialist as the national socialists of the 3th reich where.

[China studen]

You're the "idiot dog" - North Koreans are constantly trying to escape from the oppression of North Korea. Note the large North Korean refugee populations in South Korea, Thailand, Japan, China and Canada. The citizens of North Korea are trying desperately to escape, because escape from there means escape from poverty and misery.

You are the most rubbish dog waste. Traitor to the socialist countries, you are pleased to applaud, and accused the government of socialist countries reactionary oppression it? 70 of China's 90 years have taken place in Cuba over the defection of the storm, you can attack these things because the socialist state government? !

[China studen]

Also note that the leaders of places like North Korea ARE the bourgeoisie - they've just warped and mangled Marx's words in ways that fit their own desires. The same goes for Stalin, Mao, etc. - all of whom are mass murderers.

Very good. Your face, that is, an anti-communist lackeys of the bourgeoisie. To fan the flames of your purpose here is obvious. Is trying to mislead the public in order to disrupt the unity of the leftist ideology.

[China studen]

Ugh, you would think that after coming close how many times to freaking nuclear war, the very thought of which mentally scarred our society forever, we would have enough sense not to try and provoke one.

And I have to agree with STJ, North Korea does'nt paint a very good portrait of the theories of Marx and Lenin, and plus with the totalitarian style of government, its not even close to direct democracy, which Marx himself hoped to see in a communist society.

Korean people have full democratic rights. Them to actively participate in the elections. You grew up in the decadent capitalist countries who may not understand. However, under the dictatorship of the proletariat is the people's democracy true democracy. Democracy is the most noble. Workers, farmers are key members of Congress, they are the masters of their own masters.

[China studen]

Exactly. This is why I don't consider North Korea, the former Soviet Union, or Maoist China to be communist - they were just warped, totalitarian states under the false guise of bastardized pseudo-Marxist thought.

Reactionaries continue to confuse people the despicable acts. Which country do you think is the socialist? U.S. imperialism is not a "totalitarian" it? Iraq's prisons, the Guantanamo prison, there are many people now do not know the dark underground prison. Marxism is the core of the revolution under the dictatorship of the proletariat. Reactionaries are determined to distort the dictatorship of the proletariat, denigrating it as "totalitarian", that is their abuses.

[China studen]

I'm happy to see that at least some people here do support the DPRK. The posters who do not have made no relevant points except to repeat the usual vague accusations which rightists make against every socialist state. If you're going to turn your backs on DPRK, why not Cuba? Why not listen to the sensationalistic propaganda against every socialist country, from Venezuela to Belarus?

I once had the same assumptions about North Korea as anyone else, because the default is to accept what we hear in the media unflinchingly. But after reading the history of the DPRK, particularly Bruce Cuming's The Origins of the Korean War, my educated opinion is that the DPRK is well worth standing up for, and that the current accusations against it are just the latest in a long line of false and/or hypocritical propaganda by the capitalist media and states. They are not now, nor did they EVER "starve their own people". The user who stated that should really think more about it, rather than leaving CNN on and allowing their brain to turn to uncritical mush. If you oppose the DPRK, maybe you think you are being "more leftist than leftist," but really you are turning your back on the socialist state which is in most dire need of international solidarity at this point.

Read and reflect on that country's situation. Don't just react.

Warning: this is the issue I care most about now, so if you respond, be prepared for a lengthy debate!


Do you have an independent, rational view. Hypocrisy of the capitalist world in life, you will be able to maintain objectivity.

:cool:

[China studen]

Cuba and Venezuela are much better off than North Korea, that's obvious. If you don't think that much of North Korea is miserable, then you obviously haven't been listening to what the refugees have been saying. Don't believe the western propaganda, but also don't believe eastern propaganda. It all exists to support the corrupt authoritarian government systems, whether they be on the left or the right - though the ones that are supposedly on the left are actually much further to the right than I think anyone realizes. I agree that we need to send aid to North Korea, and be more supportive of the people. But that's just it: their government is corrupt, and I feel that it should be removed - not through war, but through sending the people of North Korea aid. I agree that the America propaganda machine unjustly demonizes places like Cuba and Venezuela, and I say this because many of the people in Cuba and Venezuela are very happy. There are human rights abuses in those places, but there are also human rights abuses in the US. However, I'm sure that the totalitarian North Korean government is incredibly cruel to its people. I don't know if I'm prepared or willing to debate you on this, but I would like to see your evidence for things over there "not being so bad".

Make a false charge outrageous statement!

1,70 years, Cuba is to support the revisionist Soviet Union, Cuba retains traces of a market economy. Cuba, North Korea less than great.

2, how do you know that the Korean people against their government? Even if this is true, you can not know! Because you live in ignorance of the capitalist West! I also hope that you come up with some evidence.

3, I am pleased to tell you. The fact is that based on my 7 years on the North Korea's concern and research. I am aware that the absolute loyalty to the Korean people, they always support their country. Your evil will never be able to achieve the desire.

[China studen]

I'm sorry, but...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I find it easiest to look to the dear leaders own writings instead of the media.



Is that indicative of a healthy proletarian democracy?

North Korea is faced with the threat of imperialist invasion. In the special period, and strengthen the loyalty of the Revolutionary Command is to promote a good way of proletarian solidarity.

[marxistcritic]

Comrades, we should not argue about this. There is a degree of Socialism in the DPRK. That should be enough for leftists to stand up for it, because it has managed to maintain a decent amount of Socialism through so many years with the constant threat of military attack from a much larger country ever looming overhead.

[China studen]

This sounds more like it was written by a sect leader than by a communist. :laugh:


This reflects the world's great national unity of the socialist countries. This is a proletarian collectivism embodied in the most sacred.

[China studen]

i feel the DPRK would be MUCH better without a dear leader. or any type of authoritarian gov't.

i think the first step in rehabilitating DPRK is through international aid to the peolpe..
i think what would come next is the removal of Kim Jong Il. the man may very well be using his own nation for his personal benefit. even then though, hes going to die soon anyways.

i suppport the PEOPLE of DPRK and the average soldier, but no one in the heirarchy. if the things they say about their fanatacism is true, hope for the people could be lost for a generation. and the biggest fear is, that after a revolution in that nation, most likely capitalists will assume control. or ROK will unify.

Predicted imperialism: North Korea will collapse in the 90's. But these tragedies do not happen in future will not happen. The Korean people to emerge from the economic blockade, they are able to overcome any difficulties.

[China studen]

So any criticism is uncalled for? Sorry, but many of us aren't willing to support anything that calls itself socialism, simply because it does. There's nothing particularly good about the government of the DPRK, so I'm not going to defend it out of some absurd duty to support anything calling itself socialist. If anything, the Left should be distancing itself from nutty shit like Juche and the DPRK's government, not defending it.


North Korea is not a socialist country? This is a simple, economic and political system analysis. If you are opposed to the socialist North Korea. You no longer impersonating a communist. You can declare that he is right.

[China studen]

you can call a pile of dogshit a cupcake and even put some frosting and sprinkels on it but it will always remain shit and touching it will get your hands dirty.

north korea is just as socialist as the national socialists of the 3th reich where.


You are the parrots, living in the Bush family? Otherwise, what you say and how he does the same? Mad imperialist curse of communism, or even to compare communism with fascism. Anti-communist elements you learn the trick.

[Blackscare]

China Studen, I understand that you have points to make but if you're going to respond to every person's post, please use quote tags in one post of your own, rather than making an individual post for each response. It saves space and makes the thread more understandable.

[benhur]

You are the parrots, living in the Bush family?



:laugh::laugh::laugh:

And the parrot says: Saddam-WMD, Saddam-WMD, Saddam-WMD...