The idea of "Perfection: and Society

[revx]

Hello all,

Whenever communism/socialism are discussed, people always criticize their unrealistic approach to solving the world problems and how its main objective seems nothing more than a dream that can never become true. I personally heard countless times in my arguments for these ideologies that they both are too good to be true. This triggered my curiosity to further analyze the lives of those whom say so.



The main thing here that I want to share with you all is that I asked the same people of what they thought of religion and faith. Their answer is that it should be followed exactly so that societies can prosper and improve out lives overall. They also admitted that religion is perfect concept given that it asks people to do no sin and rather avoid them. So in one condition they admitted that no perfection and that it is impossible to live for it yet they follow religion because they believe it is the way to perfection and no doubt in that.


We all accept without doubt that we are imperfect by nature. Although these people accept this fact they still think they will be able to follow perfection. I do not really see how imperfect creatures can implement a perfect system. And if yes it is possible, then why don't we give the chance to socialism and at least live in the path rather at the end of it?



currently I am writing an essay for my personal interest about this matter and that's why I wanted to discuss this here.



Thanks,

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

Look, sunshine: preaching is disallowed at RevLeft.

Here are the rules:


I heard you have rules against preaching, is this true?

Yes.

1) Justifying religious hierarchy, Preaching to or converting other members is not tolerated and religious ideas belong in religious discussions.

2) If any religious sentiments are expressed, they obviously belong in the “Religion” sub forum in OI.

3) Personal beliefs/positions on religion/spirituality should not affect an individuals overall status on RevLeft if kept within the Religion forum. Though this is not to say people won't be held accountable for otherwise unacceptable behaviour.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/faq.php?faq=restrictions#faq_thisperson

Any more and you stand a real chance of being restricted.

Can a mod move this to OI, please?

[Sentinel]

The main thing here that I want to share with you all is that I asked the same people of what they thought of religion and faith.

Then this belongs in Religion. Moved.

[Hit The North]

I've moved this to Learning because the OP is highlighting the inconsistency of those who seek perfection through the mumbo-jumbo of religion and yet state that socialism is infeasible because it would demand perfection:
So in one condition they admitted that no perfection and that it is impossible to live for it yet they follow religion because they believe it is the way to perfection and no doubt in that.
Rosa, you might want to read more closely before you weigh in with your size ten boots!

This is the nub of the post:


We all accept without doubt that we are imperfect by nature. Although these people accept this fact they still think they will be able to follow perfection. I do not really see how imperfect creatures can implement a perfect system. And if yes it is possible, then why don't we give the chance to socialism and at least live in the path rather at the end of it?
Revx, these people you speak of are pedalling a common misconception: that an equal and rational society (socialism) requires some level of human perfection which we are incapable of reaching. But the reality is that people already possess the abilities and qualities required to build such a society and we can observe this every day in a myriad of of different ways in people's everyday activity.

Socialism doesn't demand human perfection; it demands the abolition of class society.

[revx]

I don't know why the rules were cited and the whole thing moved. I was barely using religion as a way of justifying the point nothing else. wasn't speaking of specific religion
and did not express personal view on one.

[Lynx]

To my knowledge no rules were broken.

revx, the people you asked might see religion as fulfilling another purpose, a purpose not served by socio-economic systems like communism or capitalism. Their objection shouldn't be whether communism requires perfection, but to ask if it can be made to work better than capitalism.

[revx]

Lynx, yes true that religion is not best served under these political ideologies but the general practice of religion shouldn't be affected by politics anyhow nor vice versa. I should add that people I know seem to look at perfection of capitalism as its ability to give the basics and also supply the wants of the people. It can make dreams come true, although explicitly speaking that dream is not shared by everyone but rather everyone have their own dreams. I am a believer myself and I see that ideologies such as the ones being discussed are not so different than so many rules religion itself set. It is just that people have more wants now and looking for social phenomena to justify those wants.

[Decolonize The Left]

The main thing here that I want to share with you all is that I asked the same people of what they thought of religion and faith. Their answer is that it should be followed exactly so that societies can prosper and improve out lives overall. They also admitted that religion is perfect concept given that it asks people to do no sin and rather avoid them. So in one condition they admitted that no perfection and that it is impossible to live for it yet they follow religion because they believe it is the way to perfection and no doubt in that.

Perfection is impossible as it is an ideal.


We all accept without doubt that we are imperfect by nature.

No, we don't. I deny the concept of perfection in itself.


Although these people accept this fact they still think they will be able to follow perfection. I do not really see how imperfect creatures can implement a perfect system. And if yes it is possible, then why don't we give the chance to socialism and at least live in the path rather at the end of it?

Bob the Builder has covered this well here:

Revx, these people you speak of are pedalling a common misconception: that an equal and rational society (socialism) requires some level of human perfection which we are incapable of reaching. But the reality is that people already possess the abilities and qualities required to build such a society and we can observe this every day in a myriad of of different ways in people's everyday activity.

Socialism doesn't demand human perfection; it demands the abolition of class society.

- August