Bask in the glory that is Objectivism.

[Communist Theory]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukJiBZ8_4k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMTDaVpBPR0&feature=related
I don't understand it.
Let's discuss.

[mykittyhasaboner]

What a load of bullshit.

[Communist Theory]

Haha I know and she was a homophobe but it's okay! because she used reason.
Oh btw look at this intellectual I found
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG2tQfJFQUU&feature=related

[STJ]

Ayn Rand = total fucking nut job.You wont find any glory there.

[GracchusBabeuf]

Rand rejected evolution.:laugh:

[Pirate Utopian]

Man, I'm convinced.
Objectivism ftw!

[STJ]

The only thing crazy Ayn's books are good for is wiping your ass thats it.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

The only thing crazy Ayn's books are good for is wiping your ass thats it.

Wiping your ass with shit seems self defeating...

[STJ]

LOL :laugh: Yes it does.

[Jack]

Wiping your ass with shit seems self defeating...

Best post ever.

I plan to make a video called A Day In The Life Of An Objectivist, I'm going to drive around yelling at poor toddlers, telling them to get off their ass and work.

[mykittyhasaboner]

You should also go around telling couples they don't deserve each other, as well as some guy who just got his welfare check that he shouldn't get that money.

[STJ]

And we need to throw those useless old people out of there homes.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Lol, I mean whats the point of keeping old people alive if they can't work for themselves right?

Someone with the power to, move this to chit-chat.

[STJ]

Exactly comrade they are useless old and need to die.

And i think those bastard kids shouldn't be in school but forced to get jobs and then we can close those useless schools down and save money.

[Communist Theory]

I still don't get how objectivism works

[khad]

I still don't get how objectivism works
If there's one thing I took from Ayn Rand books, it's that all women love being raped by manly man ubermensch.

:rolleyes:

[bcbm]

I still don't get how objectivism works

It doesn't.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Rand's basic argument that forced selfishness implies servitude makes some sense, but she loses track of the complex nature of property relationships, going so far as to insist that if I construct a twenty-foot wall around you, that you are immoral for climbing over it without my consent.

That's because the ownership of property is an action that directly affects others. The only way to truly extinguish servitude is to destroy class differences, and, as a consequence, hierarchy. Rand inevitably had to defend the state, knowing that without such authority those caught in sticky situations could exercise their own authority to dispute property claims - a business owner who treats his employees well might be able to maintain his capitalist-esque enterprise, but inevitably the plurality (workers) would uproot capitalism wherever possible because (ironically) the workers are "selfish." Keep in mind Rand wants to think her definition of "selfish" is limited: at its core, you don't have to lift a finger to help another person, nor should they be forced into doing something. That's "alright," but then she starts defending sovereignty rights over the earth and contradicting herself - well, the landlord can tell you what to do if you're on his property.

A leftist (or even social democrat) would respond that it's not about "who" makes you act. If the government did successfully prevent landlords from forcing their workers to not leave the boundaries of their estate, that's better than having no government and watching people become serfs. An Objectivist would argue that since the landlord (allegedly) put his labor into that parcel of earth, anyone not obeying that landlord's command is virtually "stealing" from their labor.

At least on whether or not capitalism requires a state she was more honest than Rothbard (after his conversion to the right).

[Pirate Utopian]

I still don't get how objectivism works
It works because of reason!

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Fucking crazy nutter.

[Old Man Diogenes]

What the fuck is with that woman? In her ideal society it sounds as if everyone would become emotionally numb, selfish beyond compare, incredibly poor, hungry and eventually dead. No one can be that selfish, she makes it sound as if she liked kicking tramps in the street and beating up small children and destroying their schools. Some people actually like helping other people not necessarily because they are told but because they think it is the right thing for them to do, the notion that we shouldn't help each other is ridiculous. Is she saying we should sit and watch while people suffer and starve? I could not do that as everybody needs to be helped once in a while, I mean if she ever became unemployed what would she do, she doesn't want people to get money to support them while they're unemployed she'd probably starve, not that that'd be a bad thing since she is an evil, selfish fuck face. And she supports laissez-faire capitalism, so not state tyranny but coporate tyranny this women is fucked up seriously.

[F9]

Moved

[Sean]

Wiping your ass with shit seems self defeating...
Slight derailment but I accidentally deleted the 5 or so thanks for this post. Who puts the Remove all button beside the Thanks button?. Sorry!
EDIT: Wait, scratch that, It was moved to chit-chat actually. Wasn't me after all!

Anyway: They're breeding. (http://www.theatlasphere.com/dating/index.php?page=sign_in)

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Slight derailment but I accidentally deleted the 5 or so thanks for this post. Who puts the Remove all button beside the Thanks button?. Sorry!
EDIT: Wait, scratch that, It was moved to chit-chat actually. Wasn't me after all!

Anyway: They're breeding. (http://www.theatlasphere.com/dating/index.php?page=sign_in)

I couldn't imagine dating an Objectivist. What a dull outlook on life.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

What the fuck is with that woman? In her ideal society it sounds as if everyone would become emotionally numb, selfish beyond compare, incredibly poor, hungry and eventually dead. No one can be that selfish, she makes it sound as if she liked kicking tramps in the street and beating up small children and destroying their schools. Some people actually like helping other people not necessarily because they are told but because they think it is the right thing for them to do, the notion that we shouldn't help each other is ridiculous. Is she saying we should sit and watch while people suffer and starve? I could not do that as everybody needs to be helped once in a while, I mean if she ever became unemployed what would she do, she doesn't want people to get money to support them while they're unemployed she'd probably starve, not that that'd be a bad thing since she is an evil, selfish fuck face. And she supports laissez-faire capitalism, so not state tyranny but coporate tyranny this women is fucked up seriously.

If I'm understanding her "philosophy"/religion correctly, it's not "wrong" to help someone else, as long as you're not compelled to do so. However (and you might want to talk this with a grain of salt), I've also read that she thought reciprocation was the "moral" position one should take: namely, don't simply help a starving man, but tell him he has to do something in return.

[GracchusBabeuf]

Randism is the easiest caricature of capitalism to debunk.

Its the other "mainstream" capitalism apologists we should train our guns on now.

Let us see: liberals, conservatives, fascists etc most of whom have never heard of Rand or her cult.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Randism is the easiest caricature of capitalism to debunk.

Its the other "mainstream" capitalism apologists we should train our guns on now.

Let us see: liberals, conservatives, fascists etc most of whom have never heard of Rand or her cult.

Many fascists and conservatives that I've encountered actually look up to Ayn Rand. I once had an amusing conversation with a conservative friend of mine as she tried reconciling her Catholic beliefs with Objectivism.

[mykittyhasaboner]

she tried reconciling her Catholic beliefs with Objectivism.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Angry Young Man]

Why did she condemn homosexuality? I thought she was a libertarian?

I don't know anything about Ayn Rand. I don't really fancy reading Atlas. A friend read it. When he told me he bought it, I say "why would you buy that?" After he read it, he said (sarcastically (I hope at least)) it was an appraisal of the virtues of selfishness

[GracchusBabeuf]

Why did she condemn homosexuality? I thought she was a libertarian?

As libertarian as:
"In a covenant concluded among proprietor and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, no such thing as a right to free (unlimited) speech exists, not even to unlimited speech on one's own tenant-property. One may say innumerable things and promote almost any idea under the sun, but naturally no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very purpose of the covenant of preserving private property, such as democracy and communism. There can be no tolerance towards democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They -- the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centred lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism -- will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order." [Democracy: the God that Failed, p. 218]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe

Libertarians are fucked up reactionaries.

[Angry Young Man]

Odd...

I'd always thought libertarians were all along the lines of Robert Nozick.

[GracchusBabeuf]

[...]whether a free system will allow him to sell himself into slavery. I believe that it would.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Nozick

[Invincible Summer]

Sadly, one of my "libertarian" friends has taken a liking to Rand, primarily because his favorite band is Rush and Neil Peart (the drummer) is a Randroid.

[superiority]

Peart is not so much. He wrote some Rand-y lyrics back in the '70s, but nowadays he describes himself as a "left leaning libertarian", and says he is "nobody's disciple". Cf (http://www.theadvocates.org/celebrities/neil-peart.html).

[Revy]

The first video was actually quite interesting, and she made some good points.
I had to stop watching during the second video, that's when she got political....

[Stranger Than Paradise]

What Rand said of Homosexuality:
"if you want my really sincere opinion, it's disgusting.”

She is a sorry excuse for a human being.

[Klaatu]

It is quite clear that Ayn Rand was a Satanist. Her philosophy is extrapolated upon in the Satanic Bible.


"The Satanic Bible was written by Anton LaVey in 1969. It is a collection of essays, observations
and basic Satanic rituals, and outlines LaVey's Satanic ideology. The author claims the influence
of Ragnar Redbeard and Ayn Rand among others."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible

[Bilan]

I still don't get how objectivism works

It's basically self-centered elitism (in terms of philosophy) and free market capitalism. For the seperation of 'politics and economics' and so on.
She lives like a transaction.

[ZeroNowhere]

It is quite clear that Ayn Rand was a Satanist. Her philosophy is extrapolated upon in the Satanic Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_BibleNah, the 'Satanists' are probably worse. They do compare themselves to Rand, though differing somewhat. See here (http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/SatObj.html). But anyways, they're not real Satanists, they're basically posers and as such should leave the hall.

[deLarge]

Her definitions of selfishness and altruism are interesting, but other than that she comes off as... off. I never got the logic:

a=a, therefor socialism is bad and you should feel bad

[deLarge]

It is quite clear that Ayn Rand was a Satanist. Her philosophy is extrapolated upon in the Satanic Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible

LaVeyan satanism was influenced by Ayn Rand, not vice-versa.

Note that Satanism (and the Left Hand Path in general) is an extremely diverse field, and LaVey does not hold monopoly over it. Some types of Gnostic Luciferianism, for instance, can be compatible with socialist politics, as can a large number of the post-LaVeyan splinter sects, which tend to form more pluralistic ideals (a comparison might be drawn between the unitarian universalists and the orthodox christians). As far as comparability between LaVeyan satanism and socialism goes, if it is in one's self interest to be a socialist (for instance, if one is working class and wants a better life), or in the self interest of those one cares about (e.g. others of the same class, children, grandchildren, friends, or even all of humanity), then the two positions are again compatible. If one's chief motivation is the acquisition of wealth and the domination of the weak, then obviously their take on LaVeyan Satanism would not be compatible with socialism. The point is that it is largely an open-ended philosophy, and how much of the Satanic Bible (or other such documents) that one subscribes to is up to the individual. Generally speaking, the underpinning of the philosophy is that "life is the great indulgence, death the great abstinence", and that we need to work in the here-and-now of this world in order to better things, as opposed to investing in "spiritual pipe dreams", as LaVey put it. This, of course, is not diametrically opposed to socialism either. Many of the aspects of Satanism (LaVeyan or otherwise) can be seen as more dressed-up humanism than anything.

Beyond the strict LaVeyan point of view, it may also be enlightening to look at the specific judeo-christian mythologies surrounding the figure of 'satan', as there are a number of 'satanists' (atheistic or otherwise) who revere the archtype of Satan as one who thought that humans were the equals of the gods, and were deserving of knowledge. This sort of gnostic approach to the Satan myth is actually fairly common within the LHP community, and is quite compatible with socialist politics. It may also be useful to compare the mythical figure of 'Satan' to Prometheus or Icarus. The most common view of the Satan archetype is that of essentially an externalization of human motivation, potential, worldly needs and desires, an explicit rejection of spiritual subservience to external deities, and turning a critical eye to all institutions.


But anyways, they're not real Satanists, they're basically posers and as such should leave the hall.
Did you expect them to sacrifice goats or something?

[ZeroNowhere]

Her definitions of selfishness and altruism are interesting, but other than that she comes off as... off. I never got the logic:

a=a, therefor socialism is bad and you should feel bad
This (http://andrej.com/objectivism/) could help.

[deLarge]

This (http://andrej.com/objectivism/) could help.

My problem is mainly in how she uses her metaphysics as an 'objective' underpinning for her political philosophy.

[Bilan]

a=a, therefor socialism is bad and you should feel bad

:lol:

[S.O.I]

everyone is all like, wtf is objectivism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

fucking look it up you ass!

now will someone please explain to me what this means, because i didnt bother reading it. (i think it has something to do with egoism, and that its actually good, and everyone else is wrong. amirite?)

[GracchusBabeuf]

now will someone please explain to me what this meansRand wanted to bring the capitalist version of Soviet Commisarocracy to America. She never saw beyond the Soviet bosses or the American capitalist bosses and, like a typical conservative, totally ignored the working class struggles. Her current followers are among the most rabid totalitarian wackos supporting genocides in Iran, Iraq and other "mindless savage" or "socialist" countries.

[S.O.I]

Rand wanted to bring the capitalist version of Soviet Commisarocracy to America. She never saw beyond the Soviet bosses or the American capitalist bosses and, like a typical conservative, totally ignored the working class struggles. Her current followers are among the most rabid totalitarian wackos supporting genocides in Iran, Iraq and other "mindless savage" or "socialist" countries.

the leader of the second largest party in norway, FRP's Siv Jensen, actually pays tribute to her in many debates on TV.

[GracchusBabeuf]

the leader of the second largest party in norway, FRP's Siv Jensen, actually pays tribute to her in many debates on TV.:ohmy: They must be capitalist fanatics then.

[Girl A]

Wiping your ass with shit seems self defeating...

I laughed out loud at this.

[Angry Young Man]

I just watched the first half. I don't want to sound thick, but what she was saying didn't really make much sense.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Thats because it doens't make sense.

[Girl A]

Lol! It really doesn't.