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View Full Version : KKK rebrands for the mainstream -Newsweek article



coda
28th April 2009, 23:21
http://www.newsweek.com/id/195085


Rebranding Hate in the Age of Obama
With an African-American president and the economy in bad shape, extremist groups are trying to enter the mainstream—and they're having some success.


Eve Conant
NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated May 4, 2009

It's not about hate, it's about love. Love of white people. That's the message in songs, speeches and casual conversation during a weekend retreat in Zinc, Ark., sponsored by the Christian Revival Center and the Knights Party, an offshoot of the Ku Klux Klan. There's no overt threat of violence here. No cross burnings (or "lightings," as the KKK prefers to call them). The only fire at the grassy compound, located at the end of a long, rocky road circled by turkey vultures, is a bonfire for the Knights youth corps to roast their s'mores. The kids draw pictures of white-hooded Klanspeople and sing songs about the oppressed Aryan race; rousing sermons are read from Bibles decorated with Confederate flags. Aryan souvenirs are for sale, including baseball caps proclaiming IT'S LOVE, NOT HATE and advertising THE ORIGINAL BOYZ IN THE HOOD.

This would all be funny (Jon Stewart, where are you?) if it weren't so disturbing. "Do you know why people are so afraid of us?" asks Thomas Robb, the soft-spoken national director—don't call him grand wizard!—of the Knights. "Because we're so normal." In his speeches, Robb is more likely to make a joke about his short stature than he is about minorities. His Web site includes careful statements about nonviolence, green energy and women's rights. But among his ideological kin, Robb equates minorities to fleas and favors a program for "voluntary resettlement" to home countries. Illegal immigrants, as well as blacks serving time in prison, should be deported, he says. "Why is it that when a black man wants to preserve his culture and heritage it's a good thing, and when a white person wants the same thing, we're called haters?" he says.



Some of the roughly 50 attendees at the Arkansas lovefest wear Knights uniforms with Confederate flags and, along with their children, raise their arms "Heil, Hitler"–STYLE to shouts of "white power!" Robb sometimes dons his white robe and hood and doesn't see why that carries any baggage: "Why do judges wear robes? It's tradition." The Klan's past is misunderstood, he insists—no history of brutal lynchings, torture and intimidation; it's gotten a bad name from, for example, federal provocateurs who instigated violence. While Robb questions the authority of other Klan groups, he happily notes that "a rising tide lifts all ships."

It's hard to conduct accurate surveys of racists, who tend to exaggerate their strength and importance. But it's fair to say that in the Age of Obama, there's growing concern. This spring, the Southern Poverty Law Center released its annual "Year in Hate" report, which outlines that in 2008 the number of hate groups rose to 926, up 4 percent from 2007, and 54 percent since 2000. (The SPLC doesn't measure the number of members in the groups.) An April Homeland Security intelligence report states that "the economic downturn and the election of the first African-American president present unique drivers for right-wing radicalization and recruitment." Home foreclosures, unemployment and an inability to obtain credit "could create a fertile recruiting environment," the briefing adds, and extremist groups are aiming to "broaden their scope and appeal through propaganda." The haters are doing their best, in other words, to move out from the fringe and toward the mainstream—and they're boasting some success.

Indoctrination often starts on the Internet. Some crazies posting on MySpace, for instance, have called for armed revolution; at least one has referred to Barack Obama as "a dead man." But many leaders of white-supremacist groups and Web forums are toning down their rhetoric. The aim is to attract the kind of person Robb describes as "the guy down the road who until now had his plasma TV and car in the garage, but just lost his job and won't find a new one because some illegal already has it."

Don Black, a 56-year-old former KKK grand wizard, says he no longer has any formal affiliation with the Klan because "it just got so demonized and attracted the wrong people; it just got to be impossible." But that doesn't mean he's given up the struggle. As the founder of ***************, he has the white-supremacist world at his fingertips, all from the comfort of his West Palm Beach, Fla., home. Last spring Black made it a policy for the site to "have no swastikas and Third Reich symbols to turn off first-time visitors."

Black had to upgrade his server after it crashed Nov. 5 along with another white-supremacist site, the Council of Conservative Citizens, according to the SPLC. "I knew we'd get a surge in interest [after the election], but I didn't expect so much; we couldn't handle it," says Black. In the 24 hours following Obama's victory, he says, 2,800 new users signed up. He claims 150,000 registered users and says he gets about 50,000 unique visits a day. (It's impossible to confirm the figures independently; the SPLC thinks the numbers are slightly higher, but civil-rights groups may also have an interest in exaggerating the phenomenon.) Stormfront has some 50 active forums, including venues for dating, financial advice, gardening and homemaking. Black has 65 volunteer moderators and three administrators.

One moderator, who goes by the alias Truck Roy, is a clean-cut 32-year-old who wouldn't give his real name for fear of losing his job. During the Knights weekend in Arkansas, Roy, a guest speaker, advised white recruiters to "keep it subtle. Don't hit 'em with anything too hard right off the bat or you will shock them. Find a chink in their armor and make friends. If you are too radical, they won't listen."

The Nationalist Coalition, a small outfit based in St. Petersburg, Fla., claims it has seen a jump in new members in just the past few months. In March, the Arizona chapter held a family "spaghetti night" meet and greet. Members also blanketed a Phoenix suburb with fliers depicting a white toddler and the word MISSING—an attempt to show that the future of the white race is in trouble. One of its national chiefs, Todd Weingart, says the group does not condone violence and is composed of doctors and lawyers as well as blue-collar workers. "If it was only immigration or the economy or a nonwhite running the country, there wouldn't be this interest. We know that," he says. "It's the combination that is getting people to stand up and get interested." Winston Smith, a host of the white-supremacist radio show "The Political Cesspool" in Millington, Tenn., says, "The emphasis is different now. We don't talk as much about what blacks have done to us; we're more focused on ourselves and our own culture."

At least one group has become more fashion-conscious. The National Socialist Movement—a descendent of the American Nazi Party—tweaked its uniform last year, switching from Nazi brown shirts to a more Italian Fascist look. "The uniforms we wore before were even more out there, more extreme," says "commander" Jeff Schoep, who, like the Knights' Robb, hails from Detroit. "Last April we adopted the black [uniforms]; it's part of our modernization project. We don't want to look like throwbacks to 1935. But we are not trying to trick people; there are enough white groups now trying to soft-pedal people into joining."

At one recent meeting in Springfield, Mo., a dozen NSM members wore black from chin to steel-toed boot. Some sported swastikas and tattoos and wore bomber jackets with cloth patches: NO HABLA ESPAÑOL, A––HOLE and a Jewish star being dumped in the trash. Their local leader, Cynthia Keene, has a half-shaved head and multiple piercings. She started the meeting with a 14-word pledge to secure the future of the white race. There was discussion of the "Holohoax" and the warrior nature of Aryans.

They know they're being monitored. It probably makes them feel important. Keene warns her followers, "We have to be careful what we do and say and stay out of their line of sight," referring to groups like the Anti-Defamation League and the SPLC. One recent recruit, 31-year-old Melissa Cipcic, says she's upset about Americans losing jobs to illegal immigrants. She used to think of white-power groups as scary, she says, "but no one here advocates violence. So much more can be done with conversation."

The ADL's Mark Pitcavage says it is very difficult to track hate-group numbers because the organizations often splinter. What he tries to track is anger levels, and those, he warns, are rising—despite any superficial sweet talk: "The white-supremacist movement has been at red-hot anger levels for a long time. When I get concerned is when they get to white hot, where you see large bomb plots or talk about race wars. Right now we're at very red hot, and are concerned we might reach white hot again." He points to the MySpace account of "88Charles88" as an example of what he's seeing (88 is code for "Heil, Hitler" in the white-power world). "Charles" attacks Obama and says, "Now it's time to fight." "There is a lot of anger out there," says Pitcavage, "and these groups are trying to stoke it, to get someone like 88Charles88 to take the next step. What we're seeing is not a softening, but a hardening of attitude."

Pitcavage says current rhetoric resembles that of the early '90s (including conspiracy theories about FEMA concentration camps and gun confiscations), just before the outbreak of the white-militia movements. While some leaders of extremist groups may use softer recruiting tactics, "their membership is not toning down at all," says Pitcavage. For every NSM member, there is a nonaffiliated skinhead posting entries to hate blogs. If Stormfront has tried to tone down, that has only inspired a competing site—Vanguard—to showcase violent alternatives.

Some civil-rights activists are more worried about the racists they can't see than the showboaters trying to draw attention to themselves. "We're not going back to the '50s," says Mark Potok of the SPLC. "The country has moved forward in remarkable ways. But with that breakthrough comes something of a backlash." It's the loners, he says, who are most worrisome: "The lone-wolf idea is much scarier than the big-plot idea. Big plots don't succeed because these guys cannot keep their mouths shut."
As local law enforcement tells it, Cynthia Lynch was an Internet loner who tried to become a white activist and failed. She was recruited online to travel from Oklahoma last November to join a reputed Klan group in Bogalusa, La. The group called itself the Sons of Dixie. But after meeting the members, the 43-year-old Lynch had second thoughts and tried to back out during an extended initiation ceremony. She was shot dead and buried in the backwoods of St. Tammany Parish.

The Sons of Dixie were rounded up after two of them asked a Circle K clerk how to remove blood stains from clothing, authorities said. Their alleged leader, Raymond (Chuck) Foster, had a history of Klan involvement and was in the SPLC database, but no one had previously heard of the Sons of Dixie. As it turned out, Foster, who has been indicted for second degree murder, lived just more than a mile away from Bogalusa's mayor, James McGehee. "I thought I knew everyone here, but I guess I didn't," says the mayor. "I think these were Klan wannabes."

The mayor and local law-enforcement officers have spent the past few months working with the FBI to rule out further Klan activities in the area and meeting with local black churches to discuss the problem. As a child, McGehee grew up hearing about the Klan and watching civil-rights marches, he recalls. "The Klan was obviously here then. But I hadn't really heard that word in 25 years," he says. Cynthia Lynch might also have thought the old racists had softened with time; on Foster's MySpace page, according to the SPLC, he listed Jesus Christ as his hero and said he'd like to meet "honest loyal people who are devoted to things and take them seriously." She might have thought the Sons of Dixie would provide something—a sense of community or pride —that her life was missing. She didn't learn otherwise until it was too late.


URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/195085

© 2009

JimmyJazz
29th April 2009, 00:18
This is definitely not news to anyone who monitors Stormfront and similar sites, and it sure didn't just start with Obama's election. Portraying themselves as the antidote to political correctness and "multitcultural madness" is their favorite trick and has been for years.

"Blacks can't be proud, Latinos can be proud, why can't whites be proud?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Jb-lLa960

So yeah, fucking Newsweek shows how clueless it is yet again.

Here's a good place for monitoring Klan and other White Nationalist groups:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1027

Melbourne Lefty
30th April 2009, 07:34
"Blacks can't be proud, Latinos can be proud, why can't whites be proud?"


and in a nutshell why left wingers campaigning for identity politics is a bad idea.

Melbourne Lefty
30th April 2009, 07:35
Not that the Klan is going to go anywhere of course... I mean cmon!:rolleyes:

Vendetta
30th April 2009, 11:01
Some of the roughly 50 attendees at the Arkansas lovefest

Ahahahaha. What a group.

redSHARP
1st May 2009, 08:35
well how do we combat the usual "why cant we be proud of being white?"?
what is a good way to shoot down these "love whitiey" nazis?

JimmyJazz
2nd May 2009, 23:36
well how do we combat the usual "why cant we be proud of being white?"?
what is a good way to shoot down these "love whitiey" nazis?

I think Melbourne Lefty already answered that.

Identity politics are a bad idea for any nationality, and the more advanced groups have realized this (for example, the Black Panther leaders consistently said that they were for socialist equality rather than black nationalism).

Melbourne Lefty
4th May 2009, 08:43
(for example, the Black Panther leaders consistently said that they were for socialist equality rather than black nationalism).


Thankfully yes.

But I dont see many class aware ethnic minority identity politics groups out there these days. Just people grouping together on the basis of ethnicity so that they can fight for the interests of their ethnic group, regardless of the class status.

Poor Mexicans in the USA are more likely to feel closer to middle class or wealthy mexicans than they are to poor blacks or whites.

Thats doesnt mean EVERYONE feels that way, but a big chunk do. And if you are a poor white kid growing up in Northern England, or the rust belt in the US or western Sydney and you see everyone else showing ethnic solidarity to give themselves an identity and being listened to all of a sudden you might just ask "Why not me too?"

Esp if there was no-one around to explain class based politics to you. And by and large these days there is not.

A whole generation of kids from all ethnic backgrounds are growing up seeing race or country as the only valid identity choices. Class doesnt come into it anymore because all the "left" groups are too busy talking about race.

This is a disaster for left wing politics, but if you talk about it on the main board here people sneer at you and accuse you of being a part of the racist conspiracy.

If people dont think of themselves in terms of class then the fash dont need to exist, we have already done the capitalists jobs for them. We have divided the working class on the basis of race.

Holden Caulfield
4th May 2009, 10:37
A whole generation of kids from all ethnic backgrounds are growing up seeing race or country as the only valid identity choices. Class doesnt come into it anymore because all the "left" groups are too busy talking about race.

This is a disaster for left wing politics, but if you talk about it on the main board here people sneer at you and accuse you of being a part of the racist conspiracy.

You should join the SP, we are a better bunch.
I know what you mean though some left groups are annoyingly 'PC' about things, namely the SWP: Anybody who tells me not to arrange a small meeting in a pub because it could offend Muslims who want to go (with the only muslim who doesn't drink being a friend of mine who i had often been in a pub with) is a fool. I find this attitute patronising and it goes for many other things as well.

Class War not Race War!

Melbourne Lefty
5th May 2009, 02:37
You should join the SP, we are a better bunch.
I know what you mean though some left groups are annoyingly 'PC' about things, namely the SWP: Anybody who tells me not to arrange a small meeting in a pub because it could offend Muslims who want to go (with the only muslim who doesn't drink being a friend of mine who i had often been in a pub with) is a fool. I find this attitute patronising and it goes for many other things as well.


Thank god!

I dispair of finding any left wing group in the anglophone world that is not obsessed with identity politics and actualy has a class basis without being totalitarian.

Maybe thats being picky, but damnit I dont really care.

Palmares
5th May 2009, 03:15
Melbourne Lefty:



But I dont see many class aware ethnic minority identity politics groups out there these days. Just people grouping together on the basis of ethnicity so that they can fight for the interests of their ethnic group, regardless of the class status.

Poor Mexicans in the USA are more likely to feel closer to middle class or wealthy mexicans than they are to poor blacks or whites.

Thats doesnt mean EVERYONE feels that way, but a big chunk do. And if you are a poor white kid growing up in Northern England, or the rust belt in the US or western Sydney and you see everyone else showing ethnic solidarity to give themselves an identity and being listened to all of a sudden you might just ask "Why not me too?"

I don't think it is as clear cut as that (although, I see your point). Take these examples from a friend of mine:

On one occasion, he was in jail and a black guy asked him, "What's your background?" My friend replied, "My mom is from Puerto Rico." The black guy smiles and answers, "Ah hell, you're one of us."

On another occasion, once again, in jail, he is speaking to a black guy and the black guy sneers at him, "You talk like a white man."


I don't really want to get into the iPolitics discussion, that belongs in a new thread, in the Discrimination forum.

An interesting place to explore this though, is of course to follow the opinions of people of colour (especially black people) in regards to Barrack Obama. Unfortunately, it is evident many actually think there is hope in that man. But you know, over time, with failure after failure, maybe people will see... a black president don't mean shit.

Skin_HeadBanger
5th May 2009, 06:28
This is definitely not news to anyone who monitors Stormfront and similar sites, and it sure didn't just start with Obama's election. Portraying themselves as the antidote to political correctness and "multitcultural madness" is their favorite trick and has been for years.

"Blacks can't be proud, Latinos can be proud, why can't whites be proud?"

Q1Jb-lLa960

So yeah, fucking Newsweek shows how clueless it is yet again.

Here's a good place for monitoring Klan and other White Nationalist groups:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1027 (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=1027)


I'm very on the fence about that video of Phil. He was so drugged up at that point, he probably didn't even know what the fuck he was saying, and at the end he says stuff about how everyone should be proud of who they are no matter what race. But at the same time, it's not exactly good politics. I always took it as him telling everyone "fuck what others think about you, be proud of who you are."

All said, I know what he said ain't right, and drugs are no excuse for it, but idk if he meant what he said, or even knew what he said.

TheCultofAbeLincoln
5th May 2009, 07:34
First of all, The Southern Poverty Law Center is one of those groups this country simply cannot do without.

Secondly, I don't believe the contemporary Klan to be much of a threat anymore. There is certainly a violent element, however the vast majority of that organization is peaceful and much of it vehemently anti-neo-nazi.

Compared to the uzi-hoarding Aryan compounds in northern Idaho they are kindergartners.

Melbourne Lefty
5th May 2009, 07:59
An interesting place to explore this though, is of course to follow the opinions of people of colour (especially black people) in regards to Barrack Obama. Unfortunately, it is evident many actually think there is hope in that man. But you know, over time, with failure after failure, maybe people will see... a black president don't mean shit.


Yup.

I dont think that overall encouraging black communities in the US to vote along racial lines was a good thing. For one thing it probably encourages other communities [including white ones] to think the same way.

Hopefully if Obama screws up so big it cant be ignored then, as you say, black communities in the US might start to question whether policy is more important than skin colour.

From there its a quantum leap to radicalisation but it would be a step in the right direction.

Holden Caulfield
5th May 2009, 10:26
is peaceful and much of it vehemently anti-neo-nazi.

Again lets have a history lesson. Its the early 1920's the fascist NSDAP try to assume control of the state through a coup/putsch, their violent methods fail and so they change their image, become a respectable parliamentary party and assume control of the state through appointment by the political elite. Now its the early 1990's, the fascist BNP try their hand at street politics as a way of buidling support, they get beaten off, they drop their violent image go from 'boots to suits' and grow in power as a 'respectable parliamentary power.

The KKK didn't get far as violent nazi thugs, most pople recoil at the thought of it, and so they rebrand themselves, people like David Duke start to talk about 'zionists' instead of 'Jews' and they stop wearing white sheets. However they are the same party, their party contains dangerous people and hateful ideas.

Melbourne Lefty
5th May 2009, 10:36
However they are the same party, their party contains dangerous people and hateful ideas.

Nope. They are still performing the same class FUNCTION but they are not the same party.

Griffin seems to have genuinely renounced anti-semitism and throws out anyone who doesnt take the new line. The average BNP member in 1999 was an aging, male, balding, unemployed or semi skilled, loser.

The average member now is middle class in their outlook and lifestyle, if you change the class basis of a party you change that party.

The BNP is still p[laying the same part that fascist groups have traditionally played, of being a pressure valve for working class concerns, but they are doing it in a far different way.

The trend is the same, the method [and the party] is radically different.

Holden Caulfield
5th May 2009, 11:04
^ You're a complete bastard correcting me with my own lines, :lol:
You are right, i've just woken up is my only excuse.

They are very different, it would be foolish to suggest otherwise, but just the like now repectable BNP, the KKK will attract in nutters, who might well go off and form splinter groups, but the role of the main respectable party will still be central. Psycho was saying the other day, just think of the major far-right attacks and they are usually but ex-'respectabe fascist party' members.

My point was they are still a danger, not they are the exact same party they were.

Also Griffins anti-semitism has nothing to do with him realising he was wrong, he probably doesn't think he is wrong to be anti-semetic, but he is smarter than to push outdated prejudices such as this, it serves no point. The BNP are anti-muslim not anti-jewish as a party, they are opportunistic and can change like this from time to time,

hippiedude94
11th June 2009, 21:58
Whites have nothing to be proud of. They are in no position to be proud of their race when all they have done is antagonize other races. I'm white myself, by the way.

P.S.: how does the quote thing work? I can't seem to figure it out.

Melbourne Lefty
14th June 2009, 05:08
Whites have nothing to be proud of.


Saying this while saying that other "races" do have something to be proud of is why the BNP has grown in the first place.

Until no "race" is proud but people are proud of their class instead racial tensions will continue.

Which is why identity politics is one of the stupidest things a left wing group can ever get involved in.

ÑóẊîöʼn
16th June 2009, 12:00
Umm... so, fascist capitalists come into being from leftists saying stupid things? Have material conditions/ruling class ideologies gone for a walk?

I take it you missed all the discussion where everyone else was talking about leftists mucking about in identity politics?

Skin_HeadBanger
18th June 2009, 07:00
Whites have nothing to be proud of. They are in no position to be proud of their race when all they have done is antagonize other races. I'm white myself, by the way.

P.S.: how does the quote thing work? I can't seem to figure it out.

That, in its self is racist. Thats what the fascists thrive off of. And to me, excusing yourself as being white at the end is a cop out. Its like making a black joke and saying "its ok, I have black friends."

Melbourne Lefty
19th June 2009, 05:04
Umm... so, fascist capitalists come into being from leftists saying stupid things? Have material conditions/ruling class ideologies gone for a walk?

Material conditions and ruling class ideologies have always been with us.

The justification the BNP uses to organise people along ethnic lines is that other ethnic communities also organise to protect and promote their own interests.

The BNP and other far right groups in europe say that since the left says that "non-white" ethnic groups can organise themselves along racial lines but the BNP cant then the left is discriminating against white people and is two faced.

To a poor white person the argument sometimes makes sense.

Which is why in my opinion identity politics and the lefts involvement in identity politics is what has given the far right its most powerful modern argument.

The argument is wrong of course, but it is all to easy to see how a large chunk of the population that would otherwise be the heartland of the left could be swayed by it.

In my opinion [which doesnt count for that much I know] its time for a radical rethinking of left wing politics.

The far right is not going to take power in europe but the rise of the far right parties should come as a wake up call for the radical left.

The refromist left has completely abandoned the "white working class" [as well as most of the rest of the working class as well] in favour of identity politics where ethicity or religion forms more a part of a persons Identity than class.

As this happened the far right, sometimes just racist but sometimes openly fascist have slipped into many of the communities that have been left to rot. While this massive chance was going by most of the left [with a few very notable exceptions in continental europe] has bunkered down in the universities and debated more and more involuted sophistries.

The only group in the British left I see doing what the BNP is doing, or even talking about it, is the IWCA. Others may of course be doing it I just have not heard about it.

Instead of attacking the BNP, its time to start copying them, and building a locally focussed machine to tear their support base apart and make it ours instead.

Chambered Word
23rd June 2009, 14:20
Whites have nothing to be proud of. They are in no position to be proud of their race when all they have done is antagonize other races. I'm white myself, by the way.

P.S.: how does the quote thing work? I can't seem to figure it out.

'Whites' have pioneered a shitload of technology, philosophy etc although they have antagonized other races. Hell, Karl Marx was a German Jew - I guess you could call him white. I just don't see how shouting about how great your race is - black, white or otherwise - and how you're proud of it is preserving culture at all. All that crap about us interbreeding and never having a white race again is such bollocks. I once heard of a guy on one of the *chans during one of the raids on Hal Turner saying something like 'You're the kind of daughter-raping white trash that makes intellectual racists ashamed.' Intellectual racists! :lol: What an incredible oxymoron.

There's really nothing wrong with being proud of your culture but I think these people are a bunch of redneck dumbarses with nothing better to do than blame others for their failure - culture is more than just skin deep, I mean German culture is so much different to Russian or British, but they seem to consider it all 'white'. These people obviously have no culture at all, and are just afraid of black culture due to their lack of male genitalia. That said, I find it amusing that Russia has alot of Nazis. I would like to tell one that I totally agree with Hitler's argument that the Slavs are subhuman animals. :lol: Then again, I'd probably get stabbed.


-L

Melbourne Lefty
24th June 2009, 03:39
These people obviously have no culture at all, and are just afraid of black culture due to their lack of male genitalia.


Why would that make someone afraid of black culture?:confused::laugh:

9
24th June 2009, 04:51
I think culture is a beautiful thing, to be explored, embraced, and expanded upon as opposed to being swept under the rug as I sometimes see others on the Left attempting to do. That a group may be founded with a common culture at its core does not necessarily mean that it seeks to advance causes which are only advantageous to its own culture. And the claim that groups such as blacks or latinos embracing their respective cultures is the driving force behind racist nationalism is absurd, it is merely an excuse racist nationalists use to justify their existence (and if it weren't this excuse, it would just as easily be another). Xenophobia and hatred is the basis of racist nationalism and the suggestion that cultural identity among those on the Left is instigating the resurgence in popularity among hategroups is to scapegoat a preponderance of respectable people rather than attacking the genuine origin (far more complicated matters like hatred and ignorance) of the problem.

Chambered Word
24th June 2009, 13:38
Why would that make someone afraid of black culture?:confused::laugh:

I didn't neccessarily imply that, but I would guess they're envious or something along those lines. I just seem to notice how it's mostly just the white trash who want to be 'proud of their white culture'. I think they're just having a BAWWWWW over the fact that they really have none.

Anyhow, 10+ points for anyone who beats up an 'intellectual racist' :laugh:

Partizani
24th June 2009, 16:40
Anyhow, 10+ points for anyone who beats up an 'intellectual racist'

Never met an Intellectual Racist, hardly surprising as most unemployed educated people dont simply look at thier Dole money and go "ITS THE ASIANS FAULT".
It would be VERY hard for the KKK to go mainsteam, mainly because everyone knows who the KKK are and what they have done in the past.
Saying that whites cant be proud is exactly what those supremacists want to hear, "LOOK THE LEFTIES ARE RACE TRATIORS" etc etc. Its just that White Pride isnt what it says on the tin, its not pride, its supremacism.

Melbourne Lefty
25th June 2009, 06:44
And the claim that groups such as blacks or latinos embracing their respective cultures is the driving force behind racist nationalism is absurd,


Really?

Go and talk online to the people that are embracing {white} ethnic nationalism and ask them their reasons.

Why is it such a strange idea that cultural or ethnic pride in poor minority ethnic groups can provoke a strong response of cultural or ethnic pride in other groups? Makes sense really.

If you are a poor latino kid growing up in the US and you feel that no-one is looking out for you and that you are discriminated against by the wider society and that other minority groups seem to have made advances by sticking together in pride and ethnic solidarity, then natuarally you are going to assume that this will work for you and your "people" as well.

And if you are a poor white kid a few streets over who sees that when black kids and latino kids band together along ethnic lines they become stronger than before you will look apon it with a sense of envy.

And if someone comes along to this white kid, be it in LA or Paris or Yorkshire, and tells this kid that he can have what the other groups have, and that the evil left wingers are trying to deny them the chance to do what all the other groups do you might feel a little lightbulb.

If a person with no class consiousness sees other ethnic groups in his society gaining advantage by banding together and getting applauded for it, and sees that when his own ethnic group tries to do the same they get yelled down as racists by the same people who were previously applauding, then you get growth room for groups like the BNP.

Without class based analysis how the hell is a left wing person supposed to knock on a white working class voters door and tell him or her that they have no right to act collectively as an ethnic group but all the other groups are?

THIS is why I say that the abandonment of class in favour of ethnic minority identity politics will be the death of the left. And perhaps the rise of something far more sinister.

9
25th June 2009, 20:46
Really?

Go and talk online to the people that are embracing {white} ethnic nationalism and ask them their reasons.

Why is it such a strange idea that cultural or ethnic pride in poor minority ethnic groups can provoke a strong response of cultural or ethnic pride in other groups? Makes sense really.

If you are a poor latino kid growing up in the US and you feel that no-one is looking out for you and that you are discriminated against by the wider society and that other minority groups seem to have made advances by sticking together in pride and ethnic solidarity, then natuarally you are going to assume that this will work for you and your "people" as well.

And if you are a poor white kid a few streets over who sees that when black kids and latino kids band together along ethnic lines they become stronger than before you will look apon it with a sense of envy.

And if someone comes along to this white kid, be it in LA or Paris or Yorkshire, and tells this kid that he can have what the other groups have, and that the evil left wingers are trying to deny them the chance to do what all the other groups do you might feel a little lightbulb.

If a person with no class consiousness sees other ethnic groups in his society gaining advantage by banding together and getting applauded for it, and sees that when his own ethnic group tries to do the same they get yelled down as racists by the same people who were previously applauding, then you get growth room for groups like the BNP.

Without class based analysis how the hell is a left wing person supposed to knock on a white working class voters door and tell him or her that they have no right to act collectively as an ethnic group but all the other groups are?

THIS is why I say that the abandonment of class in favour of ethnic minority identity politics will be the death of the left. And perhaps the rise of something far more sinister.

Again, your reasoning is confused. Do you seriously think that KKK-style groups are forming as a response to cultural pride among minorities? Because frankly, they were a hell of a lot stronger when blacks in America were stripped completely of their heritage and threatened with lynching for expressing any sentiment of cultural pride.
No. It is a response to economic decline and immigration. They need to find a reason (that somehow ignores any white people) for why they're losing their jobs and the reason they come up with is that minorities are immigrating illegally into the country and taking their jobs from them.
I suppose you will argue, too, that the Shoah wouldn't have happened if the Jews had just tried a little harder to assimilate themselves into the broader German culture:rolleyes:
Anyone with a thinking mind should see that KKK-style groups are not about culture, regardless of their claims to the contrary. Nobody (except for you, maybe) would object to white people embracing their Irish or Swiss or German cultures. It is "WHITE" culture that is the problem, because we all known there is no such thing as "white" culture and that it is a front for racism.
Aside from all this, you are making the assumption (again, entirely false) that someone who embraces their culture must desert class consciousness. Because the proletariat is too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, right?

Melbourne Lefty
26th June 2009, 06:22
Do you seriously think that KKK-style groups are forming as a response to cultural pride among minorities?


Nope. The KKK in its various incarnations was a product of other forces, the force holding it up these days I reckon would be nostalgia.:laugh:

When it comes to highly organised neo-fascist/right-populist parties in europe thats a different story.

I dont doubt that there is a response in the US amongst working class whites to the affirmation of cultural pride and solidarity displayed by other groups, but because there is no real mainstream far right group in the US this doesnt really show.

Plus I am led to believe that many channel the feelings of insecurity sometimes caused by such affirmations into the Republican party.


No. It is a response to economic decline and immigration. They need to find a reason (that somehow ignores any white people) for why they're losing their jobs and the reason they come up with is that minorities are immigrating illegally into the country and taking their jobs from them.

Thats a catalyst for deeper underlying tensions in my opinion. My country as well does not have a respectable mainstream far right party or group and as such I am aware of many of the cultural outbursts that can occour.


suppose you will argue, too, that the Shoah wouldn't have happened if the Jews had just tried a little harder to assimilate themselves into the broader German culture

Nope the Nazis were insane people who believed in a conspiracy theory in which Jews controlled the world. Much as the KKK today are.

To compare that to the sense of insecurity caused by the highly visual cultural solidarity of your neighbours in which you are not included is a mistake. The insecurity may be based on nothing but ignorance, but it is not a highly developed conspiracy theory that purports to explain the problems of the world.



Anyone with a thinking mind should see that KKK-style groups are not about culture, regardless of their claims to the contrary. Nobody (except for you, maybe) would object to white people embracing their Irish or Swiss or German cultures. It is "WHITE" culture that is the problem, because we all known there is no such thing as "white" culture and that it is a front for racism.


Yikes....:blink:

I hate to tell you but what you have just said could easily be applied to the celebration of "Black" culture.

How in the hell is the celebration of an over-culture for europeans as a source of pride different to the celebration by groups like the BNP of a "british" culture?



Aside from all this, you are making the assumption (again, entirely false) that someone who embraces their culture must desert class consciousness. Because the proletariat is too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, right?


Sigh....

If your first identity is to your culture and your ethnic group then you will see your interests as being the same or similar to those of the members of that ethnic or cultural [or religious] group.

As the bad book says, you cannot serve two masters equally.

Preference for members of your own ethnic group over those of other ethnic groups is a product of the celebration of ethnic or cultural identity over that of class.

A black man walking in a black pride march is making asign to the world that he considers his identity to be "black"; which means he identifies with black people over other people of the same class as him.

If you cant see how this could possibly be a problem then I suggest you use some of that amazing brain which you seem to believe you have to work on the problem some more.:rolleyes: