Jordan: Israel Faces War If It Does not Agree to Arab Terms

[Yazman]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/131050


(IsraelNN.com) Israel faces all-out war within 18 months if it does not come to terms with the Arab world and allow the establishment of a new Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem, according to Jordan’s King Abdullah II.


The Hashemite monarch also declared on America's Meet the Press television program Sunday that threats from Iran and Al Qaeda will fade away once Jerusalem is divided.

His position basically echoed the Palestinian Authority (PA) stand that its demands are a condition for peace and are not a matter for negotiation, despite diplomatic and media language about Israel and the PA each making concessions.

What does everybody think of this? Could we have another repeat of 1967?

[Elway]

I do not believe the next 5 years will go by without a Palestinian State being declared and acknowledged.

The people of the world are angry on SO many levels, AND many believe it is time to risk much more to achieve ends.

The devil will be in the details, though; specifically in the notion of WHAT the lines of demarkation will be when it comes to the capital city. That's my opinion, anyway.

Also, Iran and Al Qaeda will probably NEVER accept Israel in any way, and will move against it at any opportunity. This will of course cause the miitary involvement of the United States, and, if Iran is not careful, bring about the end of Iran as a religious state.

The world is in support of a Pal. State, AND Israel. Only a minority are against either. So the threat is on Iran and Al Qaeda to accept Israel, or there will continue to be war, and on the doorstep of Iran.

[STJ]

Its hard to know.

[jake williams]

I very much doubt the Jordanian government would declare war against Israel without the world becoming a very different place. Unless I'm mistaken, the point being made is that Israel's actions are incompatible with general peace in the region - with the Palestinians, with the people, with other countries it might invade, etc. I don't really view this as a threat per se.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Of course it isn't a threat, they are talking out of their asses. If they are ready to take on Israel and the possibly even the US, simply by themselves then maybe they are serious, but they couldn't do it with out the support of Egypt, Syria, and the like. I highly doubt they want to risk another 6 day war, along with more territorial losses. the Jordanian government seems to just be trying to put pressure on Israel, I wouldn't bet on anything coming of this threat in particular.

[h0m0revolutionary]

No we couldn't is the simple answer.

All threats coming from Iran, Jordan, Occupied Palestine etc are empty.
For all the rhetoric from Ahmadinejad and open hostility from newly elected Netanyahu for example they are both fully aware who holds the military capability to destroy whom. Israel has at least 200 nuclear weapons, has the backing of the world hegemon the United States and as a settler state established with the backing of the imperialists, has nothing to fear. Iran might not be militarily backward, it is suspected for example of having Sunset Missles (which have the capability to 'go under' radar), but Iran even with the backing of the Middle Eastern goverments cannot fight an Israel so heavily backed.

Ahmadinejad in Iran, King Abdullah in Jordon and Bashar al-Assad in Syria all pay lip service to the Palestinian cause, but each of them are as complicit in the genocide of Palestinians as are the Middle East puppet regimes in Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc. They speak much, but do little and the reason is that their anti-zionist rhetoric is what gets them elected.

The Jordanian and Syrian ruling class especially use pan-arab sentiments to unite the working class and their oppressers. In Iran, of course not an arab country, this is less true. Instead Ahmadinejad and the clerics use anti-zionism as a facade to portray themselves as anti-american and therefore anti-imperialist.

Of course the sad thing is that every government within the Middle East is using the Palestinians question to bolster their own image, lest we forget in 1967 those arab governments that came to the aid of the Palestinian people had only their own expanionist ambitions in mind. The middle east can loosely be divided into two sets of governments on this question, each as complicit in the murder of Palestinians as the next.

The first set as lapdogs of american imperialism and help support the racist state of Israel.
The second appear on the international stage and cry out against Israel but in practise do nothing, they use Israel as an ever-present threat and justification for crushing workers movements in their respective countries.

If Israel concedes to 1967 borders it will be forced to concede ever more, that is the reality. There is no such thing as a two state solution, not when one is armed with 200 nuclear warheads and one nation is armed with rocks and stones. Israel therefore will not concede anything, any Palestinian state that we see in the future will effectively be a three state solution, with the West Bank and Gaza remaining under control of different authorities and the Palestinian people being dividied and without security accordingly.

The lesson then that King Abdullah doesn't get is that anything less than the complete destruction of the racist state of Israel is an imperialist adventure; it is allowing for a settler colonial, imperialist state to continue its existance.

Clearly then the only force capable of tacklig zionism seriously is the working class, not just of the Middle East but of the world over. The ruling classes of the world do nothing to help the Palestianians, least of all the up-and-coming Palestinian bourgeoisie in the sway of Hamas or Fatah. Capitlaism cannot accomodate a 'free' Palestine, as it cannot accomodate a Middle East outside of the influence of American imperialist hegemony. It's reductionist, but simple; only communism can liberate the peoples of Palestine.. and the world over.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I understand what Abdullah is saying, he never claims that Jordan is going to go to war with Israel but that Israeli oppression of Palestinians may lead 'some protagonist' may attack Israel. It would be suicide for Jordan to go to war with Israel.


Israel has at least 200 nuclear weapons.....The lesson then that King Abdullah doesn't get is that anything less than the complete destruction of the racist state of Israel is an imperialist adventure; it is allowing for a settler colonial, imperialist state to continue its existance.

I think Abdullah gets the lesson of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which I'll be the first to say should guide the actions of his own country when he chooses not forcing nuclear confontation for a foreign cause.

I agree with you that the racist implications of the state of Israel need to be removed completely, however.

[Hoxhaist]

Respect to Abdullah for standing up to Israel!! Jordan's position is driven by the fact that 2/3 of Jordanians are Palestinians are descended from refugees of the Nakba or post-1967 (including the queen). Abdullah ought to take more steps to empower Palestinian resistance so people like Ahamdinejad and Bin Laden do that in his place

[h0m0revolutionary]

Respect to Abdullah for standing up to Israel!! Jordan's position is driven by the fact that 2/3 of Jordanians are Palestinians are descended from refugees of the Nakba or post-1967 (including the queen). Abdullah ought to take more steps to empower Palestinian resistance so people like Ahamdinejad and Bin Laden do that in his place

Yeah got to love Abdullah, king of Jordon. The same Jordon where:
- Women have no right to divorce
- There are a variety of restrictions on freedom of speech, press, assembly and association
- Has had a peace treaty with Israel since 1994 as well as a
- Agreement of trade and economic cooperation with Israel since 1995

Jordanian workers have it extremely hard, we don't collude with dictators just because they oppose Israel. Our enemy's enemy is not our friend :/

[Pogue]

:closedeyes: Anyone else bored of the tiresome games bourgeois leaders play? The people of Palestine will be free if we can carry out a social revolution with them, with them creating their own emancipation along with all the workers of all the world, not by threats from a monarch.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

It's a turf war on a global scale

[saintlysocalist]

Israel will more than likly win again. They always do. They hav the best Air Force in the world and one of the best Militarys overall. They hav the Merkava tank. This tank has been made with Israel in mind. The warplanes they hav r much better than the form soviet bloc aircraft the arab states hav. These people hav been going to war since the establishment of Israel.:closedeyes:

[Sasha]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/131050



What does everybody think of this? Could we have another repeat of 1967?

quite simply NO, king abdullah is just paying lip service to the feelings of the angry jordan people to prevent any opposition.

[STJ]

quite simply NO, king abdullah is just paying lip service to the feelings of the angry jordan people to prevent any opposition.
Exactly comrade.

[la lucha sigue]

Before we all get carried away and think that Jordan has suddenly reversed its policy of peace with its friendly neighbour, look at the source that is quoted in this thread. Israel National News. There is an agenda going on here, but it is not a Jordanian one, it is a zionist one.

Look at the exact quote from abdullah

"there will be another conflict between Israel and another protagonist". The first part of the sentence is not in quotations, so we don't know exactly what he said would be responsible for such a conflict. I have no doubt that we could be looking at another conflict in the middle east within the next 18 months, but its likely that israel will be doing the invading.

This is typical zionist propaganda aimed at encouraging the war mentality amongst its settlers, and perhaps setting the scene for some form of israeli aggression against jordan in the not so distant future.

[Wanted Man]

Pure scare-mongering from a bunch of far-right hacks. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arutz_Sheva)

[Yehuda Stern]

The conception that Israel cannot be defeated is outdated and has more to do with pessimism regarding the capability of the Arab masses to overcome it than with anything real. Israel has already been defeated in all its recent wars by guerrilla armies.

[Martin Blank]

I saw the interview with Abdullah on Meet the Press. This article is full of inaccuracies and (false) assumptions about what Abdullah meant, designed to stoke fear among its readers. He never spoke about dividing Jerusalem (Jordan has historically favored the "open city" plan contained in the 1947 partition mandate). He never mentioned an 18-month deadline. And the "threat" of war was more abstract -- along the lines of, "If these issues are not resolved, there will inevitably be another war".

[h0m0revolutionary]

The conception that Israel cannot be defeated is outdated and has more to do with pessimism regarding the capability of the Arab masses to overcome it than with anything real. Israel has already been defeated in all its recent wars by guerrilla armies.

That's just not true now is it?

Israel might have been humiliated in the Lebanon in 2006, at least to some extent, but they lost nothing.
They might have withdrawn from Gaza, but they still strangle it under occupation.

Israel will not be defeated militarily by Arab countries alone, what a silly concept. The United States would never allow such a thing to happen, there is a reason that America arms Israel to the teeth and that's because Israel's destruction isn't something Western imperialism can or will afford.

[Yehuda Stern]

That's funny. I'm pretty sure that when an army fails to meet a single one of its stated goals and actually strengthens its opponents politically, it has lost. But then, maybe some people find it more comforting to believe Zionist propaganda.

[h0m0revolutionary]

That's funny. I'm pretty sure that when an army fails to meet a single one of its stated goals and actually strengthens its opponents politically, it has lost. But then, maybe some people find it more comforting to believe Zionist propaganda.

oh please..

Israel spoke about how it 'took the Lebanon back 20 years economically'
and it pretty much did, although it did indeed strengthen internatonal opinion of Hizbollah, the price was te infrastructure of Southen Lebanon which was flattened.

That's not zionist propaganda, that's fact.
Just as it's not zionist propaganda to alledge the arab masses, in isolation cannot defeat an Israelw itht he backing of the imperialist first world nations.

[Yehuda Stern]

Israel spoke, and you, apparently, have listened. While certainly Israel can always wreak havoc upon other nations, recent wars have shown that it is far from impossible to defeat. Your perspective is just pessimistic towards the working class and its capacity to overthrow Zionism. I don't know what causes it - however, it's not the first time I've seen "anti-Zionists" scared at the prospect of an Israeli defeat.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

While certainly Israel can always wreak havoc upon other nations, recent wars have shown that it is far from impossible to defeat.

Really? When has Israel been defeated? Not forced to withdraw from a foreign country, but actually been defeated and forced to give concessions?

The victory for Hezbullah, and Hamas, is that they survived an Israeli onslaught. That is a far cry from defeating Israel.

By the same logic,

The United States has been unable to win in Afghanistan against guerrilla forces, and has in fact strengthend those movements it claims to be at war with. The United States can be overthrown and estimations of its military stregnth are greatly exagerated.

Unless, of course, you aren't talking about military stregnth and capabilities (?)

[Yehuda Stern]

As I said before, I think that having the world's fourth strongest army not able to reach its goals because of the resistance of guerrilla groups counts as a defeat. Obviously, Hizb Allah can't conquer Israel, nor do I think it wants to. What I meant was that we have seen that the power of the masses can, at the right time, be used effectively against Israel.

[AvanteRedGarde]

Like Che said, "one, two, three, many Vietnams."

Mao said that it is the masses that are decisive. Because of this, aggressors are always at a disadvantage. Hizzbollah was able to capture the masses' energy and channel it towards defeating Israel.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

As I said before, I think that having the world's fourth strongest army not able to reach its goals because of the resistance of guerrilla groups counts as a defeat. Obviously, Hizb Allah can't conquer Israel, nor do I think it wants to. What I meant was that we have seen that the power of the masses can, at the right time, be used effectively against Israel.

Ah, I see, and I agree with your point.

[Yehuda Stern]

Mao said that it is the masses that are decisive. Because of this, aggressors are always at a disadvantage.

That is ahistorical nonsense. In the 70s and maybe even 80s Israel would face no such problems as it does today.

[FreeFocus]

Moreover, Israel is on the brink of dissolution this century simply because of demographics. I don't see Zionist imperialism maintaining its grip on Palestine much longer.

[khad]

Really? When has Israel been defeated? Not forced to withdraw from a foreign country, but actually been defeated and forced to give concessions?

The victory for Hezbullah, and Hamas, is that they survived an Israeli onslaught. That is a far cry from defeating Israel.

By the same logic,

The United States has been unable to win in Afghanistan against guerrilla forces, and has in fact strengthend those movements it claims to be at war with. The United States can be overthrown and estimations of its military stregnth are greatly exagerated.

Unless, of course, you aren't talking about military stregnth and capabilities (?)

To paraphrase one of the former US commanders in Germany, the IDF wouldn't have lasted 3 minutes in the Fulda Gap. Half of the Israeli military is just legend with a padded win column against incompetent opponents. They may be the regional military power, but for the Middle East that ain't saying much. Especially when you're talking about Arab militaries.

Look at the Iran-Iraq War. Iraq was getting thrashed even when it was outnumbering the Iranians 5:1 in tanks and almost 10:1 in aircraft.

[Guerrilla22]

Did King Abdullah really threaten Israel with war or is this being taken out of context?

[benhur]

As long as capitalism survives in any form, so will Israel. We have to see Israel-Pls problem in the proper context. Forget about Israel, and focus on the fight against capitalism. Once the latter is taken care of, the Israel problem will resolve itself of its own accord.

It's foolish to concentrate too much on the part to the exclusion of the whole picture. It's like wasting all the medicine on getting rid of your headache, when the real problem could be lack of sleep, and the headache merely a symptom.

Unfortunately, not only Islamic fanatics but even leftists don't seem to understand this.

[PRC-UTE]

That's funny. I'm pretty sure that when an army fails to meet a single one of its stated goals and actually strengthens its opponents politically, it has lost. But then, maybe some people find it more comforting to believe Zionist propaganda.

you're correct.

http://sanaei.com/photos/economist_nasrallah_wins_the_war.jpg

it's only ultra lefties that I've seen denying it for whatever reason.

[Yehuda Stern]

Unfortunately, not only Islamic fanatics but even leftists don't seem to understand this.

Few people have a mind like yours, which manages to understand all the wrong things.

[GX.]

As long as capitalism survives in any form, so will Israel.

:confused: The State of Israel has only existed for some 60 years, so what were the last 4+ centuries of capitalism?

[hero(W)IN]

Wow, big disappointment to see the same misunderstandings over the Israel-Palestine conflict as can be found amongst the mainstream "left" crowd.

Far from an "imperial" state, Israel had a long history of being by far the most progressive and socialist community in the middle east, until recent times when, after growing up with constant wars and threats of wars, the last generation has become understandably hardened. But the fact that Israel's communities presented people with socialism far beyond anything ever found anywhere from Turkey to Pakistan is something to acknowledge. Were their Kibbutz in Iraq?

Whoever believes in a "palestinian workers state" ought to be realistic. Hamas is not a communist organisation. The theocratic forces in the mideast are just as far from communist as are capitalists in the west.

Israel is doomed by leftists primarily for being guilty by association. The US and UK support it, therefore leftists uncritically oppose it. I prefer to think for myself, thank you. Israel is the most progressive society in the region, therefore it is a state worth supporting. Reforming the religious elements out of it will take time and an easing of threats from the surrounding, incomparably-far-more-religiocratic states. Israel is no more (and in fact, much less) "Racist" than any of the countries with Islam built into their constitutions. Attack all such elements equally, lest you prove yourselves to be anti-jewish (and let's not kid ourselves, between the venomous hatred towards Israel and the proliferation of 9/11 conspiracy theories blaming Jews, there IS a nefarious taint of anti-semitism running through most leftist movements, so don't accuse me here of merely playing the 'anti-semite' card, unless you enjoy denying reality).

[Sean]

This isn't a mainstream left website.
Noone believes "jews did 9/11".
Hamas not being communists does not legitimise Israels occupation of Palestine.
Telling someone not to make a point does not prevent them from doing so. You can't jinx/shotgun in a proper discussion. If you lack an argument you can't just say "its because you all hate the jews".

I can see you're going to be lots of fun. I say you'll get another 8-10 posts in until restriction.

EDIT: Actually, considering the fact that you think this is some kind of Obama fan club/"mainstream left" website, are you sure you're not lost?

[Yehuda Stern]

Far from an "imperial" state, Israel had a long history of being by far the most progressive and socialist community in the middle east

I myself have trouble deciding which is the most progressive and socialist element: the past murder and expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, or today's structural racism and national oppression.

[hero(W)IN]

I myself have trouble deciding which is the most progressive and socialist element: the past murder and expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, or today's structural racism and national oppression.

Can you offer any explicit, specific comparisons to prove that the societies before / around Israel are more progressive / socialist in any way?

Can you offer any non-biased sources for your blood-libel-esque accusation of the murder of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians? From the history I have read, the Israelis were peacefully immigrating, and some hostile, xenophobic, territorial, racist and reactionary locals (some, not all, of course) and their like-minded neighbours decided to use violence. This was well before the 'creation' of Israel, mind you. Would you support the use of violence by American citizens against Mexican immigrants, even if the immigrants were peaceful and came to provide social progress?

I'm not saying you are wrong, only that you are exagerrating some facts while minimizing others in order to create a false, black-and-white oversimplification of the issue, with Israel as the 'villain' and the Palestinians as the innocent victim.

And Sean, try reading my sentence a bit more carefully. I was comparing the opinions here with those found within the mainstream left.

[Yehuda Stern]

Can you offer any explicit, specific comparisons to prove that the societies before / around Israel are more progressive / socialist in any way?

Can you offer any evidence at all that Zionism is in any way progressive?


Can you offer any non-biased sources for your blood-libel-esque accusation of the murder of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians?

If by non-biased sources you mean Zionist sources, then no. Oh wait. Yes I can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Morris#The_Birth_of_the_Palestinian_Refugee_ Problem.2C_1947-1949).


From the history I have read, the Israelis were peacefully immigrating

The "history" that you have read was nothing but Zionist crap, no more real or any less racist than the anti-Semitic Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The Zionists always intended to drive the Palestinians out, and before they had the power to do so militarily, they did it by driving them out of workplaces and land. Therefore, your comparison with Mexican immigrants is as loaded as the rest of your post.

[#FF0000]

And Sean, try reading my sentence a bit more carefully. I was comparing the opinions here with those found within the mainstream left.

I remember I used to consciously go against what I thought was "mainstream" based only on the fact that it was, indeed, mainstream. Then I turned twelve.

By the way, maybe you should go take a look at what Obama and the rest of the "mainstream left" has to say about Israel. I think you're confused.

Oh and take this from a history major: you don't know what you're talking about.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Wow, big disappointment to see the same misunderstandings over the Israel-Palestine conflict as can be found amongst the mainstream "left" crowd.

Far from an "imperial" state, Israel had a long history of being by far the most progressive and socialist community in the middle east,

Stopped reading there. I didn't know stuffing Palestinians into one of the most densely populated and impoverished areas in the world, then bombing them for electing a government that doesn't like that was seen as progressive or something to be admired.:rolleyes:

Your pathetic.