Iceland moves furthest left in its history

[cyu]

Not amazingly left, but a good step anyway.

Excerpts from http://english.aljazeera.net//news/europe/2009/04/2009426186748807.html

Johanna Sigurdardottir, the prime minister and leader of the pro-EU Social Democratic Party, has claimed victory in Iceland's first general elections.

With 42 per cent of votes counted, projections from state television showed her Social Democrat/Left-Green alliance would win 35 seats, a majority of four in the 63-seat parliament.

The conservative Independence Party leader conceded defeat in what is likely to be the worst election score in the party's history after having resigned in January amid massive protests.

Estimates showed his party took only 22.9 per cent of votes, far below its previous all-time low of 27 per cent from 1987.

The win by the Social Democrat/Left-Green alliance marks the first time centre-left parties have held such a strong position in Iceland.

The previous government fell in January, when protesters took to the streets after the country's three main banks buckled under huge debts run up in order to fund their overseas expansion into financial services.

The protests pushed the government to resign and the left-wing Social Democrats formed a caretaker government in coalition with the Left-Green party and called the early election.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Iceland#Political_parties_and_election s

Social Democratic Alliance: 29.8%
Independence (conservatives): 23.7%
Left-Green Movement (socialism, environmentalism): 21.7%
Progressive (agrarian, centrist): 14.8%

[Revy]

It looks like Iceland might leave NATO now.
It's great the Left-Green Movement got so much votes. Not so great that the party decided to be in a coalition with the Social Democrats.

[Agnapostate]

I'm inclined to regard liberal and social democratic capitalism as greater foes of socialism than Anglo-Saxon capitalism, to be honest. They have a capacity to achieve economic stability in a capitalist economy through welfare programs that maintain the physical efficiency of the working class whilst simultaneously appeasing worker militancy through utilization of those programs and preventing the acceptance of "subversive" ideologies. Rightists' capacity to guarantee the eventual destabilization of the capitalist economy thus ironically serves as an ally of socialism.

[BIG BROTHER]

It will be interesting what happens. Will the masses push the party? Will the party sabotage and slow the struggle of the masses? or Will a revolution do away with all that?

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

It looks like Iceland might leave NATO now.

Where did you hear this?

It would be quite a bold move, as US bases employ thousands and because Iceland doesn't have a standing army.

[Revy]

I'm inclined to regard liberal and social democratic capitalism as greater foes of socialism than Anglo-Saxon capitalism, to be honest. They have a capacity to achieve economic stability in a capitalist economy through welfare programs that maintain the physical efficiency of the working class whilst simultaneously appeasing worker militancy through utilization of those programs and preventing the acceptance of "subversive" ideologies. Rightists' capacity to guarantee the eventual destabilization of the capitalist economy thus ironically serves as an ally of socialism.Au contraire, I think the further right politics moves, the further right the Left (including the radical left) are forced to move.

Look at the Communist Party USA. It is infamous for its unabashed support for the Democratic Party. But before 9/11 and the post-9/11 era that followed:


Our Party is committed to and actively working for greater political independence of the working class and all the progressive forces. We are working for the establishment of a united multiracial labor-based independent people's electoral party that could ultimately challenge and win against the dominant capitalist parties, in every state in the union. We consider it a necessary goal, on the road to Socialism. While we have real progress towards such a goal and some promising 3rd party developments, we do not have such a party today. - "Political Independence" - speech given at the 27th Communist convention, July 2001

[Revy]

Where did you hear this?

It would be quite a bold move, as US bases employ thousands and because Iceland doesn't have a standing army.

I didn't hear it, but with the left making gains it seems likely.

In 1949 there were riots by mostly leftists in Iceland opposed to Iceland's entry in NATO.

Yes, it would be a bold move. That's why I'm looking forward to it.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I wouldn't hold your breath. But hey, maybe.

Though, not to sound pessimistic, these gains by the Left are most easily attributed by the incompetence of the right-winged government that totally fucked Iceland up.

[RedArmyUK]

I wouldn't hold your breath. But hey, maybe.

Though, not to sound pessimistic, these gains by the Left are most easily attributed by the incompetence of the right-winged government that totally fucked Iceland up.

Iceland dug their own grave, let them lie in it.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Iceland dug their own grave, let them lie in it.

I understand what you're saying, and in Iceland's case I can share some sentiment. But it's the right-wing bullshitters who talked them into it, Icelanders should be forcing those fuckers to dig their own graves. Literally.

I am pretty cynical too, but saying that the average person should suffer because of the right wing's actions is a bit of a stretch for me. At least they are now doing something about it.

[Agnapostate]

Au contraire, I think the further right politics moves, the further right the Left (including the radical left) are forced to move.

That wasn't my precise point, which was related to the role of Anglo-Saxon capitalism in bringing about economic instability (and therefore an increase in worker militancy in response to the failures of rightist capitalism), not the specific nature of the political spectrum.


Look at the Communist Party USA. It is infamous for its unabashed support for the Democratic Party. But before 9/11 and the post-9/11 era that followed:

To be honest with you, Sam Webb's CPUSA isn't especially representative of the policies of most socialist and communist parties in this regard.

[RedArmyUK]

I understand what you're saying, and in Iceland's case I can share some sentiment. But it's the right-wing bullshitters who talked them into it, Icelanders should be forcing those fuckers to dig their own graves. Literally.

I am pretty cynical too, but saying that the average person should suffer because of the right wing's actions is a bit of a stretch for me. At least they are now doing something about it.

I went there 2 years ago, The average person there seemed to be living a very relaxed life so Fuck em

(£8 for a Mc Meal!!!!, the place was packed with middle classes throwing money at the till)

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Never been. Maybe you're right.

[JohnnyC]

Does anyone know how strong revolutionary socialist movement is in Iceland?Real left should use this current distrust for neoliberal politics to gain further support in Iceland.

[RedArmyUK]

I went there 2 years ago, The average person there seemed to be living a very relaxed life so Fuck em

(£8 for a Mc Meal!!!!, the place was packed with middle classes throwing money at the till)


Oh boy,,Opened a can of worms here an,t I.
I,m just waiting now for the great non-believer Sam_b to ask "Got a source for your claim"

[STJ]

A step to the left is always welcome.

[rednordman]

Not bad to be fair. Iceland has had it very very good for a long time now and had gotten very deluded over the longevity of their prosperity. In a nutshell, they thought it would last forever. And guess what, They got hit buy the recession worse than most. Sadly though for the left, as cult of abeL said, I think this is more of reaction to the dire complacency and arrogance of the right. I think as in most countries during this recession, the people are trying to sweep the obvious need for change under the carpet, intill it looks bright again (probably an optomistic assumption by them)

[Angry Young Man]

I went there 2 years ago, The average person there seemed to be living a very relaxed life so Fuck em

(£8 for a Mc Meal!!!!, the place was packed with middle classes throwing money at the till)

That was 2 years ago. You do remember from reports how quickly and drastically Iceland went tits-up?

[al8]

Why are you speaking as if a nation is a person? Iceland did this Iceland does that. It's not like that. Iceland is a class devided society and most people have no power over their situtations or national agendas. Representative democracy is a farce after all. It is the wealthy that truly rule everything of significance through their means, not the common people.

[cyu]

I went there 2 years ago, The average person there seemed to be living a very relaxed life so Fuck em

(£8 for a Mc Meal!!!!, the place was packed with middle classes throwing money at the till)


If everyone was living a good life, including the cleaners and servers at the local McDonalds, then good for them. If the people at the bottom of a society are well off, then the society is a good one - unless the people there supported exploiting poorer people in other societies, in which case, "Fuck em" would be warranted.

[Andropov]

I studied the political parties of Iceland and this indeed was a historic election.
But surely the mass mobilisation of the icelandic working class in over throwing the governent was far more noteable than some soft left social democrats gaining one up on their parliamentary rivals.
If the media and indeed even the left over state the "magnitude" of the social democrats election then we will risk falling into the trap of vindicating them as an alternative to the economic crisis when in reality the only solution to the crises was when the workers marched on the streets and not merely stopped at over throwing the conservatives but the whole rotten system, breaking the gilded prison bars which they reside behind and limits their political scope intentionally.
It is a worrying trend for the left in general that the funnelling of popular support into hamstrug constitutional politics which only perpetuate the problem.
Such actions nuter the working class.

[al8]

There was an anarchist group member that shat in the voting booth and wiped him/herself with the ballot which s/he then diligently put in the ballotbox. "Giving the election (farce) the shit" as the Icelandic saying goes. A comparable saying would be "giving it the finger".

I agree with that sentiment.

Another reason people are saying its an "Historic" election is that there are now more women in parliament than ever, due to the gender quotas of two the Social Democratic parties. So now there are more women in parliament than any other country except Ruanda, Cuba and Sweden.

[fabilius]

Most of what has been said on this thread on Iceland is accurate.

The election is the furthest to the left in a long time. Arguably though there have been more left-leaning governments f.x. in 1954 when three leftwing parties governed. (One of them still exists but has become a centre right party today).

I am pleased that the social dems have become the biggest party instead of the ubernationalistic conservative party. (Independence party). Being an Icelander I have personal gains in it, seeing that in a worst case scenario the social dems won´t let people starve in the streets while you never really know with the right wing.

It´s not much progress though and if they are effective in making Iceland more like Norway and Sweden (which is their ultimate goal) then there is no possibility for radicalism in Iceland.

---

Just to dissapoint you though: Iceland is not leaving NATO. The left-greens have it on their agenda, but it´s not on the top of their wish list and they are the only party wishing so. A coalition government would never agree on it.

Ironically though I´m not sure what the results would be if Iceland would vote on whether to be a Nato country or not. Sometimes polls have shown a majority against it.

But the will of the people has never been respected, Iceland f.x. supported the invasion into Iraq while more than 90% of the population opposed it from the start.

---

I´m Icelandic btw.

[Spooky]

Iceland dug their own grave, let them lie in it.

If you understand exactly what happened to Iceland, you would also understand the that lackadaisical checks on the banking industry in the UK and in Benelux was one of the main causes for this enormous credit collapse that happened in Iceland: the UK and the Benelux was allowing them to give out EU-wide loans at an astonishing rate without forcing Iceland to show that their national bank could cover all this debt if the loans went south. And, as it turned out, the national bank didn't have enough capital to sustain the losses when people started defaulting on their loans, both in Iceland and in the UK.

So, it as much as Iceland's mess as it is for the UK. And seeing you are from the UK, don't you think your own country had some culpability? Let's not go pointing fingers and wiping your hands off, when its your own country and their fiscal policies that helped create the mess in the first place.

[Spooky]

Most of what has been said on this thread on Iceland is accurate.

The election is the furthest to the left in a long time. Arguably though there have been more left-leaning governments f.x. in 1954 when three leftwing parties governed. (One of them still exists but has become a centre right party today).

I am pleased that the social dems have become the biggest party instead of the ubernationalistic conservative party. (Independence party). Being an Icelander I have personal gains in it, seeing that in a worst case scenario the social dems won´t let people starve in the streets while you never really know with the right wing.

It´s not much progress though and if they are effective in making Iceland more like Norway and Sweden (which is their ultimate goal) then there is no possibility for radicalism in Iceland.

---

Just to dissapoint you though: Iceland is not leaving NATO. The left-greens have it on their agenda, but it´s not on the top of their wish list and they are the only party wishing so. A coalition government would never agree on it.

Ironically though I´m not sure what the results would be if Iceland would vote on whether to be a Nato country or not. Sometimes polls have shown a majority against it.

But the will of the people has never been respected, Iceland f.x. supported the invasion into Iraq while more than 90% of the population opposed it from the start.

---

I´m Icelandic btw.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge on the subject. It's good to get an Icelandic person's take on the issues.

[Pawn Power]

I'm inclined to regard liberal and social democratic capitalism as greater foes of socialism than Anglo-Saxon capitalism, to be honest. They have a capacity to achieve economic stability in a capitalist economy through welfare programs that maintain the physical efficiency of the working class whilst simultaneously appeasing worker militancy through utilization of those programs and preventing the acceptance of "subversive" ideologies. Rightists' capacity to guarantee the eventual destabilization of the capitalist economy thus ironically serves as an ally of socialism.

The problem with this argument is that it leaves out a vital component to revolution: power. A revolution that is not based on the power of the people (that is, working people) is doomed to reaction and despotism. The economic system will be 'destabilized' through its own contradictions and through the organized revolt of the people. A system which becomes destabilized merely through mismanagement does not guarantee mass class consciousness and thus working class power.

To be specific. We can't 'wait' or 'hope' for the system to fail we must organize now to dismantle it and create something new.

[Agnapostate]

The problem with this argument is that it leaves out a vital component to revolution: power. A revolution that is not based on the power of the people (that is, working people) is doomed to reaction and despotism. The economic system will be 'destabilized' through its own contradictions and through the organized revolt of the people. A system which becomes destabilized merely through mismanagement does not guarantee mass class consciousness and thus working class power.

To be specific. We can't 'wait' or 'hope' for the system to fail we must organize now to dismantle it and create something new.

Liberal democratic capitalism plays a role in providing a false alleviation for alienation through crude appeasement of worker militancy, though.

[RedArmyUK]

If you understand exactly what happened to Iceland, you would also understand the that lackadaisical checks on the banking industry in the UK and in Benelux was one of the main causes for this enormous credit collapse that happened in Iceland: the UK and the Benelux was allowing them to give out EU-wide loans at an astonishing rate without forcing Iceland to show that their national bank could cover all this debt if the loans went south. And, as it turned out, the national bank didn't have enough capital to sustain the losses when people started defaulting on their loans, both in Iceland and in the UK.

So, it as much as Iceland's mess as it is for the UK. And seeing you are from the UK, don't you think your own country had some culpability? Let's not go pointing fingers and wiping your hands off, when its your own country and their fiscal policies that helped create the mess in the first place.

This is why we are looking to move away from UK (and EU)