What do you guys

[Pogue]

Think of the general area of philosophy/sociology/politics (although I think philosophy is what it'd come closest too) put across by Bill Hicks in his 'Its just a ride' speech, which has similarities to the ideas put forward by Tyler Durden in Fight Club and arguably by alot of the participants in the may 1968 events in Paris?

Sorry if you struggle to see the link as I do. I mean the general perspective of 'Step back and take a look at life' ideas. Its hard to define them but I think my fellow thinkers will understand what I mean.

[Yehuda Stern]

If to judge from the Fight Club ideas, then as much as I love the movie, I must say it's a classically petty-bourgeois outlook. Durden complains that he and his fellow fighters were told all their lives that they'd be able to get their share of bourgeois wealth and fame - that they'd all become rock stars or something of the sort. He's pissed not about the exploitation of the working class, not about the oppression of minorities and the third world, not even in liberal terms of rich vs. poor or of how horrible racism and chauvinism are - what he's pissed off about is that he's not in on it.

Using that as an example, I think the ideas you're discussing represent the frustrations of the middle class and upper middle class at not being able to become part of the ruling class. They are contemptous of the working class for being supposedly mindless, because they don't rise up against oppression, but all they do basically is commit random acts of vandalism and violence that are meant to piss off the bourgeoisie but can't really threaten its power.

[Post-Something]

If to judge from the Fight Club ideas, then as much as I love the movie, I must say it's a classically petty-bourgeois outlook. Durden complains that he and his fellow fighters were told all their lives that they'd be able to get their share of bourgeois wealth and fame - that they'd all become rock stars or something of the sort. He's pissed not about the exploitation of the working class, not about the oppression of minorities and the third world, not even in liberal terms of rich vs. poor or of how horrible racism and chauvinism are - what he's pissed off about is that he's not in on it.

Using that as an example, I think the ideas you're discussing represent the frustrations of the middle class and upper middle class at not being able to become part of the ruling class. They are contemptous of the working class for being supposedly mindless, because they don't rise up against oppression, but all they do basically is commit random acts of vandalism and violence that are meant to piss off the bourgeoisie but can't really threaten its power.

He's talking about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95kX_EP2Nk) by the way.

[Pogue]

If to judge from the Fight Club ideas, then as much as I love the movie, I must say it's a classically petty-bourgeois outlook. Durden complains that he and his fellow fighters were told all their lives that they'd be able to get their share of bourgeois wealth and fame - that they'd all become rock stars or something of the sort. He's pissed not about the exploitation of the working class, not about the oppression of minorities and the third world, not even in liberal terms of rich vs. poor or of how horrible racism and chauvinism are - what he's pissed off about is that he's not in on it.

Using that as an example, I think the ideas you're discussing represent the frustrations of the middle class and upper middle class at not being able to become part of the ruling class. They are contemptous of the working class for being supposedly mindless, because they don't rise up against oppression, but all they do basically is commit random acts of vandalism and violence that are meant to piss off the bourgeoisie but can't really threaten its power.

I think thats unfair. They don't want to be the ruling class. They want to make life meaningful again and seek some sort of cause after consumerism (capitalism) has stolen everything form them. The vision is a sort of post-capitalist primitivist utopia that they dream of, as well as simply trying to live life. They don't hate the working class, and they most certainly don't like the ruling class. They actually say at one point 'We need a general strike so we can re-distribute the wealth of the world'. Although of corse theres the bit when Tyler gets lairy to the union guy, but I think its meant to represent a union official who doesn't give a shit.

Its certainly not anti-working class or pro-ruling class. Its more left wing thean anything, but its about more than politics, its about living ones life to the full potential and not caring. I think you've completely misinterepreted the film or at least applied your own incorrect ideas to it.

Also the core idea is that it does threaten the bougeoisie because they are everywhere. I really think you've either not seen the film, read the book, not payed attention or simply decided to completely distort its message.

[couch13]

If to judge from the Fight Club ideas, then as much as I love the movie, I must say it's a classically petty-bourgeois outlook. Durden complains that he and his fellow fighters were told all their lives that they'd be able to get their share of bourgeois wealth and fame - that they'd all become rock stars or something of the sort. He's pissed not about the exploitation of the working class, not about the oppression of minorities and the third world, not even in liberal terms of rich vs. poor or of how horrible racism and chauvinism are - what he's pissed off about is that he's not in on it.

Using that as an example, I think the ideas you're discussing represent the frustrations of the middle class and upper middle class at not being able to become part of the ruling class. They are contemptous of the working class for being supposedly mindless, because they don't rise up against oppression, but all they do basically is commit random acts of vandalism and violence that are meant to piss off the bourgeoisie but can't really threaten its power.

This is really not at all what Tyler's saying. He's saying that they're beginning to understand that the American Dream is a bunch of bullshit. Not every man rises from the ghetto to be a famous rapper or comes from the trailer park to become a sudden movie star. This isn't anti-working class, this is a realization that life isn't that good under capitalism.

If anything, Project Mayhem is very working class. When threatening the police chief Tyler says stuff like "we cook your meals, we walk your dogs, wash your clothes, we guard you while you sleep. Do not fuck with us." He's showing the police chief that they are the working class and they have power over his life.

[couch13]

Think of the general area of philosophy/sociology/politics (although I think philosophy is what it'd come closest too) put across by Bill Hicks in his 'Its just a ride' speech, which has similarities to the ideas put forward by Tyler Durden in Fight Club and arguably by alot of the participants in the may 1968 events in Paris?

Sorry if you struggle to see the link as I do. I mean the general perspective of 'Step back and take a look at life' ideas. Its hard to define them but I think my fellow thinkers will understand what I mean.

To a certain degree, yes. Bill Hicks' speech is saying that if we step back and look at it all, we can realize that life is a ride and we can make it better so long as we decide to make it better. Tyler Durnan is saying that if we step back and look at it all, we realize how pointless most of life is, and we need to create a new point to living.

So yes, in it of that they both think life is just ride (though Tyler's view on it being a ride is negative, while Hicks' is positive).

No, in that Hicks is calling for people to strive for a society of socialism that would have people working together in harmony while Durnan is calling for them to destroy society and go back to a primitive world.

[VanDoodah]

Hicks was God.:D