gay fascists

[reddevil]

an astonishing article on the link between homosexuality and fascism: two seemingly irreconcilable states of mind
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html

[Holden Caulfield]

(no time to read the article but i will say this)

You can have gay fascists, jewish fascists, disabled fascists, whatever kind of fascist you could think of could exist.
This is because the nature of fascism is the class collaboration, counter revolution, and other such things, the particular prejudices they choose to throw around aren't part of the ideology, they are cultural dressings to play on existing stereotypes. They are all in context of time and place, and so are by their very nature will change from epoch to epoch, from place to place.

[Sean]

[T]he idea of a gay fascist seems ridiculous. Yet when the British National Party - our own home-grown Holocaust-denying bigots - announced it was fielding an openly gay candidate in the European elections this June, dedicated followers of fascism didn't blink. The twisted truth is that gay men have been at the heart of every major fascist movement that ever was - including the gay-gassing, homo-cidal Third Reich. With the exception of Jean-Marie Le Pen, all the most high-profile fascists in Europe in the past thirty years have been gay. It's time to admit something. Fascism isn't something that happens out there, a nasty habit acquired by the straight boys. It is - in part, at least - a gay thing, and it's time for non-fascist gay people to wake up and face the marching music.I can't help but think that this guy is taking too much credit (if the term may be applied!) on behalf of the gay community. All the article did was list lots of fascists that were gay, and since he didn't put forward even a flimsy hypothesis on the correlation it just sounds like gossip. Pointless, at least from a hetrosexual stand point. Any gay members get anything more from this?

[DreamWeaver]

Watch 'Manner helden; schwule nazis', a film about gay people in the German neo-nazi movement. It's very entertaining to think about being homosexual in one of the most masculine (macho) movements today. It's like every leather-lover's wet dream :)

[h0m0revolutionary]

Of course gay fascists do exist, and we shouldn't be shocked at all.

As Holden says this is because fascism isn't intrinsically a homophobic ideology, first and foremost it is a nationalistic and corporatist ideology. The rhetoric of national, cultural and racial unity are a vehicle to gain momentum for fascism. But this rhetoric is empty and as such, open to opportunistic change and exemptions.

Take both the Austrian Freedom Party and the Alliance for the Future of Austria, both of whom had Jorg Haider in influential positions. Now although Jorg Haider never confirmed his homosexuality (i'd suggest this can't the case anyways, more likely he was attracted to people of both sexes) it is telling that neither orginisation had an explicit policy of note that condemns homosexuality, unlike for example their British counterparts.
You still can't have an openly gay leader and be a fascist i'd imagine, but it's telling that the Austrian fascists can let their anti-homosexual principle slide when the homosexual in person, is their leader.

Fascism then can and does accommodate homosexuals, and as I say we shouldn't be shocked by this. Homosexuality does not usurp a persons life and identity, for some people, homosexual, heterosexual or otherwise, their sexual identity if a significant part of their life, but for many more it isn't. So LGBTQ people, even in full knowledge that the orginisation is homophobic, may still feel inclined to join the BNP/National Front or whatever, because their sexuality isn't a pressing matter, but they feel passionately about an issue such as immigration, strong national identity etc.

I've spoken to BNP members who are homosexual (although i've only ever encountered two) and an outline of how homophobic the BNP is isn't going to make them leave. We deal with homosexual fascists with as little sympathy as we must deal with any other fascist. They are often not confused, not in the wrong orginisation, not a militant left winger in the waiting, but are (self-loathing?), anti-worker reactionaries.

I think the whole premise of the article is therefore wrong and this isn't surprising coming form the Liberal press.
They want to portray homosexuality as something that can de defined above and beyond sexual expression, they also want to give it a coherent and universal political ideology and the fact is homosexuals can in come in all shapes and forms and fascism is one of them. Generalising that homosexuals are "strange strange strange" for becoming fascists is to assume homosexuals are all the same, and it's just bollocks.

It is convenient for capitalism to label the LGB community as similar, this way gays and lesbians can continue to go to their gay-only gyms, dance at their gay night clubs and buy their LGB commodities (pink pound!). But many homosexuals do not fit the stereotype that market capitalists have painted upon the LGBTQ community.

And that is the real, and wholly more sinister, point of this article, wishing to portray fascism as something counterpoised to homosexuality as if homosexuality were something monolithic and without hybridity.

The article, written by a gay man or not is borderline homophobic, it labels all these fascist people as 'gay' even though the only proof is that they are rumored to have had sex with a male (As if bi-sexuals don't exist and as if you HAVE to be gay if you have ever experienced attracted to another male).

It's nothing but pissy-liberal garbage, we don't have to explain or excuse gay fascists anymore than we excuse other types of fascist, fascists, whether they're gay, black, yellow or fucking polkadot need to be combated and writing 60,000 words about their "shocking" existence is as much a waste of time as it is boring.

[Dimentio]

an astonishing article on the link between homosexuality and fascism: two seemingly irreconcilable states of mind
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html

Sexuality is not a basis for political movements generally speaking. What is a basis for political movements is economic interests.

[Lamanov]

Remember Night of the Long Knives, 1934?

Röhm was arrested by the SS while he was in bed with another man (or at least that's what I read in W. L. Shirer).

[Partizani]

it isnt that its weird to be gay and fascist, its just that they join organisations that promote hatred of gays.

[Holden Caulfield]

it isnt that its weird to be gay and fascist, its just that they join organisations that promote hatred of gays.

Nope, as we said the prejudice will change with the context (of location and time). It would be contradictory to be a Jewish Fascist in most people's opinions yet we find them in Italian Fascism and in the modern day there are Jewish supporters of the BNP.

Also check what H0m0revolutionary wrote,

[teenagebricks]

Indeed, there are plenty of Jewish BNP supporters, I believe they've also been touting a gay candidate for the EU elections this June. I think what is most shocking about gay people and fascism is that we can generally rely on the LGBT community to be a bit more open minded about things, it really makes you think about the problems we face when minorities are being turned against one another.

[Dr Mindbender]

I don't think it's fair to say that Fascism and homosexuality exclude each other.

Serpents current pet project, Soonic the hedgehog clearly shows this is not the case.

I think what would be more remarkable to find incidences of being both gay and national socialist.

[Partizani]

I think what would be more remarkable to find incidences of being both gay and national socialist.

Ernst Rohm.

[Dr Mindbender]

Ernst Rohm.

Well, he didnt tow the party line then.

[Melbourne Lefty]

(no time to read the article but i will say this)

You can have gay fascists, jewish fascists, disabled fascists, whatever kind of fascist you could think of could exist.
This is because the nature of fascism is the class collaboration, counter revolution, and other such things, the particular prejudices they choose to throw around aren't part of the ideology, they are cultural dressings to play on existing stereotypes. They are all in context of time and place, and so are by their very nature will change from epoch to epoch, from place to place.

Hit the nail on the head there.

Anyone who thinks that fascism is simply a white male hetero thing is closing off their mind. Its a class thing, it changes from society to society.

[Sasha]

I think what would be more remarkable to find incidences of being both gay and national socialist.

not realy:

ernst rohm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm)

edmund heines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Heines)

karl ernst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Ernst)

nicky crane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicky_Crane)

michael kuhnen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_K%C3%BChnen)

michel caignet

thomas brehl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Brehl)

are a few of the prominent ones.

i cant find a copy online but kuhnens brochure "nationalsocialism and homosexuality" is very interesting

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Well, he didnt tow the party line then.


Nope he was killed in th Night of the Long Knives. But Hitler was more worried about the threat he posed to his power as Rohm led the strong SA paramilitary, the fact that Rohm wanted to unite the SA with the army which Army officials hated and Rohm lead the "left wing" of the party and wanted to nationalise a few big companies (this of course threatened Hitlers cash supply from the Capitalists who feard the KPD/SPD) than the fact that he liked men.

[redSHARP]

try being gay in the US fascists movement! most US nazi groups are strict heterosexual, white, protestant (sometimes very anti-religious, but worship Norse runes and shit like that)

[reddevil]

try being gay in the US fascists movement! most US nazi groups are strict heterosexual, white, protestant (sometimes very anti-religious, but worship Norse runes and shit like that)

the strangest story i've ever heard is that of jewish neo nazi daniel burros.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Burros