Would Communism be liked if name was changed

[commyrebel]

I have come across this recently people do have communist views but don't know it. Others just hear the word communism or socialism and blank the truth because of the killing and fascist views of past leaders. I have had communist views for along time, when i was a kid i didn't know that i was communist till what i learned what communism was. So I am asking would communism succeed if we changed the name but not the views.

[LOLseph Stalin]

That's an interesting thought, but I do really think the name does make a difference. Many people do seem to sympathize with the ideas until they hear the name. The name "Communism" seems to have so much stigma attached to it.

[Brother No. 1]

Changing the name of a system doesnt do anything. Communism has the attachments that Marx put on it. If name was changed people still would not like it in Capitalist nations. For they listen to the Capitalist propaganda. If I changed my name i would still be name and no different then before. If you change the name of something it doesnt have really much of a effect.

[dez]

its not about the name (or a movements current image), but ideas and actions within the movement.
The image, we change.

[Nils T.]

I've got a certain tenderness, even a fetichism for this word. Not enough so that I'd prefer it to its actual realization. I know what I don't want : for example, enclosing my ideas into a word. I don't need identity, and usually I let to the people whom I resist the chore to define me. But I always try to have the first hand; they follow and gather the rubble.

Puttings words like communism before the reality is in every situation (even if the word is promising instead of repulsive for the people concerned) a ball and a chain at our feet. If our language takes more importance than our lives, we sink in the depths of ideology and that's how revolutions are lost.
But if we were to give more importance to our enemy's language than to whatever drives us (be it desires of freedom and equality or just some words), then there will be no revolution to be lost at all.
We should not accept the domination of the capitalists over the words we can use. Names, as all other elements of communication, are of a great political importance. We can't let it be controlled. The fear of this word was created because we let it be separated from the everyday life by the attempts of the leninists and social democrats to control it - until they lost to a party that was naturally more efficient we it come to control things. We have to give it back its factual sense, remove the stigma. We have to subvert it until it is uncontrollable.

[CHEtheLIBERATOR]

Yes they would fully accept here's why ...

1.A study showed that 1/3 americans know what communism really is.
2.The media (even liberal) potray communism as evil
3.The sypathy of communism is frowned upon
4.Schools teach communism is evil

So because of this propaganda they (the bourgeoise) have successfuly crippled the thought,teaching and belief of communism in the commonman

[robbo203]

There is arguably not much point in changing the name. What needs to be done is to disassociate communism from the state capitalist regimes that have besmirched the name.The problem is that there still many on the left who are still attached to the state capitalist ideal

[Rebel_Serigan]

People will shut down when you say the "evil C word" but what you have to do is use elequence and make them understand what they already know before you tell them what they are talking about. Nearly every single person i have talked to about our pathI have talked to them about the theory and ideals behind it while neglecting to tell them the name of the system until the end of the conversation. Most didn't know they liked Communism or Socialism until I came and talked to them for a few minets and made them realize they were socialist. Words can bring about fear as well as respect, but the latter will only come to our word if the person knows what it is before they know the name that has been pinned on it.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I enjoy pointing out Communist or Marxist ideas to people, and getting them to agree with me without knowing realizing what they are. My understanding of Marx is only pretty basic, but it still feels rewarding.

For example, I recently ad this conversation with a friend who's shopping for a car:

Me, "So, you know that now the government will give you $3000 to trade in your used car, so that more people will buy cars."

"Yeah, but I hate the idea. It's a slap on the free-market idea and keeps the price of used cars artificially high."

"Exactly, it's a subsidy for those companies that built too many cars."

"Yeah, but, well, if it wasn't for that then I guess all those people would be out of work, since they already built so many and nobody wants to buy a new car. It almost hurts them that they built so many."

"Yes, one could call it a, oh, Crisis of Overproduction perhaps."

"Yeah, that's a good name for it."


hehehe victory is mine.

[Q]

I enjoy pointing out Communist or Marxist ideas to people, and getting them to agree with me without knowing realizing what they are. My understanding of Marx is only pretty basic, but it still feels rewarding.

For example, I recently ad this conversation with a friend who's shopping for a car:

Me, "So, you know that now the government will give you $3000 to trade in your used car, so that more people will buy cars."

"Yeah, but I hate the idea. It's a slap on the free-market idea and keeps the price of used cars artificially high."

"Exactly, it's a subsidy for those companies that built too many cars."

"Yeah, but, well, if it wasn't for that then I guess all those people would be out of work, since they already built so many and nobody wants to buy a new car. It almost hurts them that they built so many."

"Yes, one could call it a, oh, Crisis of Overproduction perhaps."

"Yeah, that's a good name for it."


hehehe victory is mine.

Nice :lol:

[Invariance]

People tend to forget that is has undergone a number of name changes; socialism, scientific socialism, communism, Marxism, revolutionary Marxism, social democracy, blanquism, Leninism, Marxist-Leninism, Maoism, Trotskyism, Titoism, Revisionism, Left Communism, anarchism, Hoxhaism, Menshevism, Council Communism, Juche, anarcho-communism, Euro Communism, Neo-Communism, workerism, Bolshevism, Luxemburgism, De Leonism and so on and so on. Sure, most of them identify as communists, and wish to achieve a communist society, and have named themselves (or history has named them) according to their views on those and numerous other issues. But were their successes or failures owing to their names?

Still, call me cynical, but I'm wondering if another name is what we really need... I'm not necessarily opposed to it (Lenin did a similar thing after the term social democracy got caught up in the mud of the Second International) I just wonder how effective it will be. By all means, come up with an aesthetically sounding name.

[robbo203]

I enjoy pointing out Communist or Marxist ideas to people, and getting them to agree with me without knowing realizing what they are. My understanding of Marx is only pretty basic, but it still feels rewarding.

For example, I recently ad this conversation with a friend who's shopping for a car:

Me, "So, you know that now the government will give you $3000 to trade in your used car, so that more people will buy cars."

"Yeah, but I hate the idea. It's a slap on the free-market idea and keeps the price of used cars artificially high."

"Exactly, it's a subsidy for those companies that built too many cars."

"Yeah, but, well, if it wasn't for that then I guess all those people would be out of work, since they already built so many and nobody wants to buy a new car. It almost hurts them that they built so many."

"Yes, one could call it a, oh, Crisis of Overproduction perhaps."

"Yeah, that's a good name for it."


hehehe victory is mine.

Yes, but what has that got to do with communist or marxist ideas? All you are doing is encouraging the idea of the state interventionism in the capitalist economy. This could easily be passed off as Keynesian demand management

Now if you persuaded them about the need for or desirability of a non-market and non-statist without giving it a name (pssst its called communism ;)) we might really be making progress!

[mosfeld]

Once we've changed imagery/name the media will just demonize our new reinvented movement and we're back to where we started. It's pointless.

[Pogue]

Communism is an idea...you should never walk up to people and hope you can convince them to be 'communist'... Its irrleevant. Its a set of ideas. You shouldn't even use an ism it puts people off. We're nott rying to make everyone suddenly become a communist politico, we just want them to become class conciouss and gain revolutionary ideas.

[Pogue]

Communism is an idea...you should never walk up to people and hope you can convince them to be 'communist'... Its irrleevant. Its a set of ideas. You shouldn't even use an ism it puts people off. We're nott rying to make everyone suddenly become a communist politico, we just want them to become class conciouss and gain revolutionary ideas.

[ZeroNowhere]

I have come across this recently people do have communist views but don't know it. Others just hear the word communism or socialism and blank the truth because of the killing and fascist views of past leaders. I have had communist views for along time, when i was a kid i didn't know that i was communist till what i learned what communism was. So I am asking would communism succeed if we changed the name but not the views.
Apparently it doesn't do much (http://www.newunionparty.org/).

[OneNamedNameLess]

In a time when Obama is considered a socialist I would have to say no.

[Bitter Ashes]

The stigma associated with these words is very clear. What I've been finding in my surveys is that workers are very unhappy with capitalism and are very open to the the solutions that communism can offer. At no point did I refer to these things as anything other than "Workers' rights". I've even got some contact details from a number of them intrested in finding out more. I dont believe that if I'd used the words that have been tarred and feathered by the bourgeois, it would have been succesful. At some point though, I am planning on getting in touch with these people again , teaching them a little more about what communism can offer them and then, at the end, letting them know it's name. I honestly do think that they'll be suprised. :P

[Sean]

It didn't help the seakittens (http://www.peta.org/Sea_Kittens/about.asp) did it? On the other hand, the BNP wouldn't have as much support as they do if they had called themselves the No Darkies Club. Its a fascinating thought experiment with successes and failures on either side. A dissident IRA faction decided to call themselves "The Real IRA", obviously so that in order to refer to them you had to declare them the originals and the originals the fakes (who werent the originals but the provisionals but thats another story). Didn't work, every news reporter mentioning them generally prefix their name with "the so-called" making the very utterence of their organisation a little cringeworthy. Of course it isn't just about name changes though, you'd have to do a really good PR job and reinvent your party into something else, but as an ideology "communism" cannot be anything else. It has a bad rap, as much as anarchist is synomymous with punk kids knocking over bins and shouting "fuck you mom!". The language is loaded and unless you can knockout or shout louder than the media which is the source of the negativity, you'd have as easy a time redefining freedom or terrorist.

I'm vetoing changing any group's name to "The Share Bears" though, just in case the PETA twit that came up with seakittens is reading. ;)

[Andropov]

The best way to tackle the stigma arising from the word Communism is solid community work, not name changes.
Make your politics relevant to your working class community and what the papers and media vomet at them will be disregaurded.

[el_chavista]

Engels to Karl Kautsky, 13 February 1894 (Marx-Engels Collected Works, Volume 50, p. 269):

"I do not consider the term ‘communism’ suitable for general use today; rather it should be reserved for cases in which a more exact description is required and even then it would call for an explanatory note having virtually fallen out of use for the past thirty years."

[Dimentio]

Engels to Karl Kautsky, 13 February 1894 (Marx-Engels Collected Works, Volume 50, p. 269):

"I do not consider the term ‘communism’ suitable for general use today; rather it should be reserved for cases in which a more exact description is required and even then it would call for an explanatory note having virtually fallen out of use for the past thirty years."

We should focus on what we want to do, instead of our name.

[teenagebricks]

More people would be open to communistic ideas if they didn't associate it with people like Mao and Stalin, so in that sense, yes.

[ZeroNowhere]

Engels to Karl Kautsky, 13 February 1894 (Marx-Engels Collected Works, Volume 50, p. 269):

"I do not consider the term ‘communism’ suitable for general use today; rather it should be reserved for cases in which a more exact description is required and even then it would call for an explanatory note having virtually fallen out of use for the past thirty years."
Well, technically, right now, 'socialism' is equally misused. Still, I'd say that either with a 'libertarian' at the beginning would at least confuse people enough for them to ask about what the hell you're talking about. I generally stick to 'socialism', but use 'communism' if necessary to avoid confusion.

[Alex Libman]

All forms of collectivism (tribalism, monarchy, nationalism, socialism, fascism, communism, theocracy, democracy, republicanism) are indistinguishable to me. One will morph into the other depending on cultural and economic factors. All must be opposed in favor of the only rational system: one based on individual self-ownership (negative rights of life, liberty, property), and the non-aggression principle.

[Alex Libman]

America is far from perfect, but it is the wealthiest nation on earth. Only a handful of nations have higher per-capita GDP, and in most cases they are tiny states with vast natural resources. There are only three exceptions to that: Ireland, Hong Kong, Singapore - the three nations that happen to be as economically free and pro-business as the United States. (I'm usually in the habit of hyperlinking what I say to reference sources, but I'm new here and links aren't allowed until I reach 25 posts. I hope I won't be banned until then...)

Your spelling of America with the K's attempts to imply association with the Ku Klux Klan, while in reality nothing is further from the truth. I am an individualist. I have friends of many different ethnic origins, and I have many friends who I know online and I've never felt the need to inquire what their ethnicity is. There is only one race as far as I'm concerned, human.

[STJ]

Thats a very interesting idea. People tend to like our ideas until you say communism it tends to turn them off.

[NecroCommie]

I usually force people to question their understanding of the word "communism". I do this by telling the ideas first, and if they agree with me I tell them the name later. They usually go like: "Well... ummm... I guess its OK"

As to the real topic: Perhaps it would make the ideas more popular, but if we change the name of the idea we should propably be forced to abandon the history of communism too. This is because if we talk about some "global collectivism" (for example), and refer to its history by taking examples in the history of communism, we would "reveal our true hides" to the listener, who might feel a bit cheated. I also think that we should have nothing to apologize for, so even if name change would make us more popular, I would feel as if betraying my comrades who are accuded because of being communist.

[Die Neue Zeit]

In uninformed public opinion, the term "Marxist" is generally separated from "Communist" (generally associated with Soviet-style/"Leninist"/Comintern organization and what not). For example, the National Post called the social-democratic Solidaire party in Quebec a "Marxist" party but not a "communist" party.

What is really needed is a political alternative to the word "Marxist," such as "class-strugglist." The ultimate ideology can be "proletocratic"/"ergatocratic"/"commonwealth-ist" or "social-proletocratic"/"social-ergatocratic"/"social-abolitionist," depending on one's view of "social labour."

[Red Rebel]

What would a skunk smell like if we changed the name?

People have been associating Communism with negative thoughts as a result of capitalist propaganda since 1848, if not before that. The workers revolution is the awakening of class conscious individuals, I have faith in the workers that they'll come to an understanding over one word.