Who was worse, Caligula? Or Nero?

[The Author]

I figured I would start a different topic on history that doesn't revolve around the Cold War, communist tendencies, actions of 20th century political figures, etc. which have been seriously done to death in the history forum.

So, my question in this thread is this: Who do you believe to be the worse of the two Julio-Claudian Roman emperors, Caligula? Or Nero?

Caligula I have a good impression of in film through the portrayals by actor Malcolm McDowell in the film Caligula and John Hurt in the TV mini-series I, Claudius. Unfortunately, I have yet to read Tacitus or Suetonius, and I haven't read any other primary or secondary material on this historical figure.

Nero, I have to admit, I know much less about except again, what I see on film- although in this case, that only goes for sparse documentaries I might eye on the History Channel. In terms of literature, as with Caligula I have yet to read Tacitus or Suetonius, and again I haven't read any other primary or secondary material on this historical figure.

All I can say is that they were both corrupt. Thoughts?

[Dimentio]

I figured I would start a different topic on history that doesn't revolve around the Cold War, communist tendencies, actions of 20th century political figures, etc. which have been seriously done to death in the history forum.

So, my question in this thread is this: Who do you believe to be the worse of the two Julio-Claudian Roman emperors, Caligula? Or Nero?

Caligula I have a good impression of in film through the portrayals by actor Malcolm McDowell in the film Caligula and John Hurt in the TV mini-series I, Claudius. Unfortunately, I have yet to read Tacitus or Suetonius, and I haven't read any other primary or secondary material on this historical figure.

Nero, I have to admit, I know much less about except again, what I see on film- although in this case, that only goes for sparse documentaries I might eye on the History Channel. In terms of literature, as with Caligula I have yet to read Tacitus or Suetonius, and again I haven't read any other primary or secondary material on this historical figure.

All I can say is that they were both corrupt. Thoughts?

All the Julio-Claudian emperors were hated by the senatorial land-owning class, since they originally were populist usurpers who relied primarily on the Roman proletarii (the unemployed underclass of freedmen), their loyal veteran legions and an army of informers.

Some information suggests that Livia carried a defect gene which causes neurological damage. Caligula and Claudius are suspected for having suffered from tourette's syndrome.

Caligula was mostly known for demanding absolute unquestioning loyalty, and openly insulting and humiliating the senators. He also took on some of the aspects of divinity. It is unclear whether he was insane or simply tested the boundaries of his power.

His rule was cut short by assassination.

Nero was a more able emperor than Caligula, but lost control over his government after the Great Fire of Rome. In his rebuilding programme, Nero centralised all power to himself and started to proscript lands owned by his political opponents. That provoked the armies of Gaul and Spain into revolt and meant the end of Nero's rule and the Julio-Claudian dynasty.

I would personally claim that Caligula was a worse emperor, because he was largely unproductive and childish. Nero was somewhat stronger, but Nero's fall wrought worse consequences for Rome than the fall of Caligula.

Here's a rather good documentary about Nero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUEMJtUyn3w

But remember, most of the Roman historians who have written about the Julio-Claudian dynasty were reactionary land-owners who wrote about the Julio-Claudians after the fall of the dynasty.

The Flavian and Nervan-Antonine dynasties following the Julio-Claudians did not built their power upon the proletarii, but were rather classical military dictators who protected the land-owning classes.

Therefore, it is advised that you take everything written about the insanities of the Julio-Claudians with one or two grains of salt.

[mikelepore]

Caligula (Gaius) was just nuts. Declaring war on the god Neptune and then sending the army to the beach to collect seashells. Threatening to make his horse a consul. Cutting his sister open to remove a fetus and then eating it. There's can be no understanding of "Little Boots" except that he was nuts.

Nero was different. He was decidedly repressive. Making Christians into torches to illuminate his garden parties, it's not simply nuts, but there's a plan there, it's consciously politically repressive. It's nuts also, but not only that.

[Dimentio]

Caligula (Gaius) was just nuts. Declaring war on the god Neptune and then sending the army to the beach to collect seashells. Threatening to make his horse a consul. Cutting his sister open to remove a fetus and then eating it. There's can be no understanding of "Little Boots" except that he was nuts.

Nero was different. He was decidedly repressive. Making Christians into torches to illuminate his garden parties, it's not simply nuts, but there's a plan there, it's consciously politically repressive. It's nuts also, but not only that.

Caligula made a failed invasion of Britain, or possibly just a scouting expedition. It remains ambiguous whether or not he impregnated his sister and later murdered her, but the truth is he got very depressed when she died (either by health reasons or murdered by him). He actually declared her into a goddess after her death, which fueled rumours.

[Pirate Utopian]

Caligula I have a good impression of in film through the portrayals by actor Malcolm McDowell in the film Caligula
Good movie, I really dont see why it's critised so much. I loved it.

mikelepore makes a decent point.
Does anyone know how christians were treated under Caligula?

[Dimentio]

Good movie, I really dont see why it's critised so much. I loved it.

mikelepore makes a decent point.
Does anyone know how christians were treated under Caligula?

No one knows how christians were treated under Nero either. All we have is probably forged accounts.

Don't think there were any christians in Rome under Caligula's reign. I know he persecuted druidists though. There, he had the support of the establishment.

[saintlysocalist]

That is a hard choice. Id hav to go with Nero. Fing baldy.