Right-Wing Revolution; or American Revolution 2.0

[IcarusAngel]

It has begun.

The right-wing has started converging in titty bars and TGI Friday's across the country to implement the new revolution. (I had no idea this is civic participation the founders had in mind.)

Their demands?

That all taxes on business be eliminated.
That all Communists be purged from the government and Universities.
That we withdraw from the UN - we invade who we want, when we want. (And here I thought that beloved revolutionary, Thomas Paine, who helped spearhead the American revolution, believed we are all "citizens of the world"?)
That abortion be ended.
That we prostrate ourselves and worship before the corporations.

Truly the revolution of patriots, spearheaded by the one and only Glenn Beck. With help from Bill O'Reilly, etc.

This Wednesday, across the country, right-wingers in America are having numerous boston tea party meetings (the naming of these things is always so awkward) to discuss the revolution. Some of these meetings have already taken place. The proof is in the pudding:

kwdOwgD5OsY

ktijKFURdPg

These guys aren't all talk, either. Some of them have taken dramatic action:

9GvNXWE4bTc

Your mind on Glenn Beck and Alex Jones: These guys actually believe the police are working with the communist government rather than protecting the interest of property. Convinced revolutionaries.

(Not that I have much of a problem with their target, cops, but, as North Eastern Federation of anarchist-communists points out, they were probably targeted because they were black (http://www.nefac.net/en/node/2475), which I do have a problem with.)

By the way,in the first video, book burning is mentioned, specifically "communist" University and evolutionary books. Which begs the question, which books are burned?

According to human events, these are evil books:

"Silent Spring" by Rachel Carlson, "On the Origin of Species" by Charles Darwn and "Unsafe at Any Speed" by Ralph Nader, and of course, The Communist Manifesto. These are the most "dangerous" books of the twentieth century, in the mind of right-wingers. I shit you not.

Has anybody here ever thought about becoming a counter-revolutionary?

[Kassad]

Sounds like something Ron Paul would engineer. Tools.

[mykittyhasaboner]

A bunch of right wing nut jobs, what else is new?

[Kassad]

Well, shit. These bastards have a good 600+ people claiming to be joining a march on the statehouse in my city. When did these bastards start wielding influence?

[mykittyhasaboner]

Well, shit. These bastards have a good 600+ people claiming to be joining a march on the statehouse in my city. When did these bastards start wielding influence?

Shit, really? That's incredibly disturbing.


What organization is planning the march?

[IcarusAngel]

A bunch of right wing nut jobs, what else is new?

Well it is true that these guys are just modern day John Birchers, but I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Alex Jones crowd has nothing to do with the left despite some people even here praising his work.

[IcarusAngel]

Well, shit. These bastards have a good 600+ people claiming to be joining a march on the statehouse in my city. When did these bastards start wielding influence?

Keep in mind that these guys have a lot of meda coverage too, and, unlike the John Birchers of yesteryear, pretty much a whole network that helps fuel this kind of stuff (Neal Cavuto, Glenn Beck, etc.). Notice how the guy in the video talks of "Glenn Beck" etc.

So, given that Fox News reaches a lot of people it was only a matter of time before something like this happened, as Fox sees it as a chance to give the Obama people another issue to deal with.

They claim they are going to start a revolution or at least take a couple of states like New Hampshire and break it off from America (like the confederacy).

It's interesting they picked New Hampshire, which is on the east coast, and not a Southern state like Texas, Alabama, Mississipi, etc.

It should also be pointed out that their nuttiness far surpasses even the John Birchers - some of them believe the police are working for the communists etc.

[Kassad]

Shit, really? That's incredibly disturbing.


What organization is planning the march?

http://shotsonthehouse.com/?page_id=1334

A group called 'Americans for Prosperity.' I've never heard of them, but they're planning a march for the 'Columbus Tax Day Tea Party.' Because somehow paying less taxes will end government debt.

[Bud Struggle]

It's interesting also, that for all of the Communists talking about Revolution--these right wing guys are not only talking actually DOING something about it. Now I don't think it will come to anything--but isn't this what the Communists and the Socialists and the Anarchists should be doing?

People are listening to them. I'm not on their side--but I do admire them for getting up off their butts and protesting.

[mykittyhasaboner]

http://shotsonthehouse.com/?page_id=1334

A group called 'Americans for Prosperity.' I've never heard of them, but they're planning a march for the 'Columbus Tax Day Tea Party.' Because somehow paying less taxes will end government debt.

:lol: Their going to accomplish a lot with their little "tea party" aren't they?

[IcarusAngel]

It's interesting also, that for all of the Communists talking about Revolution--these right wing guys are not only talking actually DOING something about it. Now I don't think it will come to anything--but isn't this what the Communists and the Socialists and the Anarchists should be doing?

People are listening to them. I'm not on their side--but I do admire them for getting up off their butts and protesting.

No argumet on this side of the table. These right-wingers are far more active than the left here in the US.

They are even killing cops now, and so on.

However, the left used to do this all the time in the US in the 20s and 30s, and they didn't just kill cops for no reason, it was for retaliation or self-defense. And they had some success - it's debatable whether the labor riots brought the attention needed to the American people for them to start favoring a change in the working conditions, which was eventually completed. "Workers' rights" is something that had to be fought for.

This is all "American history."

Example:
Sacco and Vanzetti were

A: Migrand workers
B: Socialists
C: Anarchists

The Novel, the Jungle, was written by which socially conscious American novelist?

A: Ernest Hemingway
B: Sinclair Lewis
C: Upton Sinclair

Who killed Republican President William McKinley?

A: John Wilkes Booth
B: Leon Czolgosz
C: Richard lawrence

Answers:
C. C. B.


Whether this right-wing populist movement actually changes American history remains to be seen.

But, it doesn't look too good for the "cultural warriors" like Bill O'Reilly and Focus on the Family.

Recently, James Dobson, cultural warrior, has admitted defeat to the atheists, lesbians, communists, etc.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017709.php

[mykittyhasaboner]

It's interesting also, that for all of the Communists talking about Revolution--these right wing guys are not only talking actually DOING something about it.
Now I don't think it will come to anything--but isn't this what the Communists and the Socialists and the Anarchists should be doing?

They aren't doing anything except spreading misinformation and stirring up hype about their little "tea parties". Surely you aren't suggesting that the left is all talk and no walk when compared to these morons right? Communists should not be organizing marches for lower taxes or whatever else these libertarian, "constitutionalists" are doing; and stead we should be fighting the class struggle.

[Bud Struggle]

They aren't doing anything except spreading misinformation and stirring up hype about their little "tea parties". Surely you aren't suggesting that the left is all talk and no walk when compared to these morons right? Nope--I'm just saying that these guys are out there doing all this stuff.



Communists should not be organizing marches for lower taxes or whatever else these libertarian, "constitutionalists" are doing; and stead we should be fighting the class struggle.

Of course! But you see these guys are fighting the class struggle, too--but only in the opposite direction.

[IcarusAngel]

2_nfBEPm9eI

"I thought I was here to talk about sex in the city."

I'm sorry but these right-wing guys are just hilarious. :laugh:

I think their goal is to kill us off with laughter.

And what do they mean that digital TV is mind controlling device (Alex Jones stuff?)

I think that technology is getting so complicated, and hard to manage, that they are starting to fear that too.

[CheFighter777]

The truth is these F-ers are nothing more than racist, wanting the US to be run by a White Only majority. They are loosing their power as minorities educate themselves and rise up.

And now that the US has a Black President, they are going crazy, calling for a idiotic revolution, putting their nut jobs in power.

[Bud Struggle]

No argumet on this side of the table. These right-wingers are far more active than the left here in the US.

They are even killing cops now, and so on.But these people are not the cop killing Stormfronters--we have to differentiate here a bit. These people are average Americans that are few up with government giveaways to Corporations and the like. they are fed up with welfare to people that don't work--they want lower taxes--and that is something that translates well to people. They want to have money to pay their mortage. And the right is doing a good job recruiting people playing on these key issues. What I am saying that couched in other terms--the radical left could play upon these same unhappinesses. The Right is focusing in on what people care about most, leaving the Left out in the cold. Remember: Obama is being portrayed as a "Socialist."


However, the left used to do this all the time in the US in the 20s and 30s, and they didn't just kill cops for no reason, it was for retaliation or self-defense. And they had some success - it's debatable whether the labor riots brought the attention needed to the American people for them to start favoring a change in the working conditions, which was eventually completed. "Workers' rights" is something that had to be fought for. Right, but "worker's rights" seems vague and distant--lower taxes is much more palpable. These guys are talking, "worker's struggles" all right--they are just using a vocabulary that the average American understands--lower taxes. These guys don't care about AIG or Lehman Brothers--they care about making their next car payment. these is something that the Left could connect with--if they had a vocabulary that the average American could connect with. "Struggle against the Bourgeois oppressors" ain't gunna cut it.





Whether this right-wing populist movement actually changes American history remains to be seen.

But, it doesn't look too good for the "cultural warriors" like Bill O'Reilly and Focus on the Family.

Recently, James Dobson, cultural warrior, has admitted defeat to the atheists, lesbians, communists, etc.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017709.php

Nope. I think Dobson was rallying the troops here.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Of course! But you see these guys are fighting the class struggle, too--but only in the opposite direction.
Eh, I wouldn't say they are class conscious in the least, in fact they probably don't even acknowledge the existence of class struggle. These "tea parties" are all just a bunch of stupid conservative protesters who think communists have infiltrated the US government. Which to me shows that they have complete lack of historical or any otherwise scientific analysis of classes, and are simply just jumping on a moronic bandwagon.

If anything, they are fighting the class struggle simply on behalf of the bourgeoisie. This wouldn't be surprising since the capitalists are prone to convince one half of the working class to kill or conspire against the other half, time and time again. But then if we accept this then were back to good ole square 1 with the workers against the bosses (except some workers have are simply conditioned to be misguided, or some simply have their price :):rolleyes:).

[danyboy27]

all i know is, if they dare using force against the us governement, its gonna end up bad for them.

[mykittyhasaboner]

all i know is, if they dare using force against the us governement, its gonna end up bad for them.
:lol: They wont use force, they are just going to keep having tea parties until they realize how useless they are. What makes you think these people are going to take up guns and shoot at military or police? Most of them "support the troops", and wouldn't want to be shot as a traitor against their beloved country.

[griffjam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_rattle

[commyrebel]

What a bunch of dumb ass right wingers all they do is complain about and say there marching but i don't think many realize that ya Obama is president but he doesn't have that much power we still have the senate and house and the rich lobby and pay off the politicians to pass things for them. There just scared because they lost there head. Dam rich conservatives

[Kassad]

How could the left be seen as idle in protest form? Organizations like the ANSWER Coalition, World Can't Wait and Code Pink are busting their ass around the clock and organizing protests that pull in thousands of people. Frankly, the right wing lunatics will continue protesting until the system collapses, and then some. How someone can look at this recent crisis, ignited by reckless spending and speculating on the part of American corporations, and say that deregulation is necessary is totally ignorant. There's absolutely no way to rationalize the argument for lower corporate taxes, as well as higher military spending. That means... more debt. That means... deeper recession. Are we starting to see a pattern here? In truth, one day, I expect Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter and all those neo-fascist morons to come on their programs and just say "Shit, guys. We were just fucking with you! Deregulation? Free markets? What are you, nuts? You all bought it too! Dumb fucks."

If only.

[#FF0000]

It seems like these right wing guys only look more active because they get air time.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

It seems like these right wing guys only look more active because they get air time.

Great point. Of course the media, controlled by the wealthy, will give credibility to views that support capitalist domination.

[MMIKEYJ]

Sounds like something Ron Paul would engineer. Tools.

You dont have to worry about Ron Paul engineering anything, it doesnt work like that.

And I doubt any Ron Paul people would support burning books... Burning books is always a bad idea.

[WeiWuWei]

I was going to post a much longer post, but I think it would be more sufficient to just say that I seriously want to punch Glenn Beck in the face.

[Jazzratt]

Revolution is much easier when you're already in charge, in seems.

[Communist Theory]

Damnit, I'm at school and these videos won't show up.
Maybe I should join the RevRight. :lol:

[Jazzratt]

Damnit, I'm at school and these videos won't show up.

When you get home I heartily recommend you watch them.

My favourite parts include the main speaker in the first video declaring that everything happening today is a result of communist infiltration of American government in the '50s (yes, really), that he wasn't going to pay any more taxes (yeah, sure) and that people should take their kids out of education (this elicited applause and a a joyous shout of "yeah, burn the books". The shout was later clarified to be about "brainwashing books" like "all that evolution crap" - truly the cream of the intellectual crop on board for this "revolution"). I also liked the reasoning the bloke in the 3rd video gave for starting an armed siege - he believed the Obama was about to take away his guns, the obvious course of action must then be to do something stupid with his firearms collection to make it harder for the pro-gun camp. The video a little later in the thread is pure Glenn Beck genius, complete with "facts" pulled straight from his arse, overblown theatrics and incoherent ranting. If this is the face of the misanthrope revolution I'm astonished that anyone is a big enough dumbfuck to go with it.

[Communist Theory]

When you get home I heartily recommend you watch them.

My favourite parts include the main speaker in the first video declaring that everything happening today is a result of communist infiltration of American government in the '50s (yes, really), that he wasn't going to pay any more taxes (yeah, sure) and that people should take their kids out of education (this elicited applause and a a joyous shout of "yeah, burn the books". The shout was later clarified to be about "brainwashing books" like "all that evolution crap" - truly the cream of the intellectual crop on board for this "revolution").
I went to a gunshow awhile back and all the guns there were way overpriced and the reasoning behind that was that and I quote the words of the redneck selling some guns. "Well you see the reason this gun right here is $500 is because when Obomber becomes president hes gonna take away all your guns so buy em while you can boy." He was trying to sell me a SKS in horrible condition.

[#FF0000]

You dont have to worry about Ron Paul engineering anything, it doesnt work like that.

And I doubt any Ron Paul people would support burning books... Burning books is always a bad idea.

There are a lot of Ron Paul people on Stormfront, you know.

[freakazoid]

lol. Wow. You guys seem to have no idea what they believe in.


I went to a gunshow awhile back and all the guns there were way overpriced and the reasoning behind that was that and I quote the words of the redneck selling some guns. "Well you see the reason this gun right here is $500 is because when Obomber becomes president hes gonna take away all your guns so buy em while you can boy." He was trying to sell me a SKS in horrible condition.

The reason all firearms and ammo had gone up, not sure if the prices are still up, is because once it was known that Obama was going to be president then people started buying guns and ammo because Obama is extremely anti-gun and it is extremely likely that he will try to ban firearms. And because of all the buying that created a shortage in supply.

[Jazzratt]

lol. Wow. You guys seem to have no idea what they believe in.

Then explain, because it seems to be the same old shit the right-wing in america has always argued for. Only now they're being louder about it.



The reason all firearms and ammo had gone up, not sure if the prices are still up, is because once it was known that Obama was going to be president then people started buying guns and ammo because Obama is extremely anti-gun and it is extremely likely that he will try to ban firearms. And because of all the buying that created a shortage in supply.

I've not actually seen much that suggests Obama is anti-gun. From what I understand he has been reticent to introduce stricter controls on guns. Regardless, hysterical stockpiling is not the way forward.

[CheFighter777]

:lol: They wont use force, they are just going to keep having tea parties until they realize how useless they are. What makes you think these people are going to take up guns and shoot at military or police? Most of them "support the troops", and wouldn't want to be shot as a traitor against their beloved country.

I have a buddy who's a hard core Ron Paul supporter and he calls me a traitor because I don't believe like him. He wants a full on revolution, and kill the pirates who have taken over the White House.

These Ron Paul supporters are serious nut jobs! He called Pres. Obama by the N word. They are serious racists who literally want to see the USA like it was in the days of black slavery, and Jim Crow laws!!!

[trivas7]

There are a lot of Ron Paul people on Stormfront, you know.
If you're saying that many Ron Paul people are racist white assholes, I just don't buy it. Ron Paul doesn't promote nor endorse racism.

[CheFighter777]

If you're saying that many Ron Paul people are racist white assholes, I just don't buy it. Ron Paul doesn't promote nor endorse racism.

Maybe so, but his followers sure do, and they want an all White Only, English Only America!!!! They want to kick all immigrants out of the USA.

[Kassad]

If you're saying that many Ron Paul people are racist white assholes, I just don't buy it. Ron Paul doesn't promote nor endorse racism.

Of course Ron Paul doesn't endorse racism. All he does is endorse the 10th Amendment of the United States Constitution, which means that all issues not listed in the initial nine rights are to be left to the states. So if Georgia wants to legalize lynching of minorities? That's their right. States must also have the right, then, to allow discrimination in the workplace, meaning that minorities could be paid lesser wages and have their benefits removed. In truth, it's a blank slate. Anything and everything could be legalized. The Ron Paul types are the kind that would have allowed slavery to continue to this day, since banning it would be 'big government' and 'tyrannical.'

Racist? Nah!

[#FF0000]

If you're saying that many Ron Paul people are racist white assholes, I just don't buy it.

Really? Because from what I've seen, they are overwhelmingly white, racist, and assholes. And like I said, Stormfront was absolutely enamored with the guy.

Though, of course, that isn't to say all Ron Paul supporters are racist, so nobody here should go thinking I'm accusing them of something.


Ron Paul doesn't promote nor endorse racism.

Debatable. Some pretty disgusting, racist articles bearing his signature have surfaced. I figured everyone sort of knew of that by now.

[CheFighter777]

Whats funny is that Alex Jones is telling his followers that Obama has FEMA Camps ready to imprison millions of Americans!!!!

[redSHARP]

god these people are dumb!!

what happens when the books do begin to burn?

[synthesis]

I have a buddy who's a hard core Ron Paul supporter and he calls me a traitor because I don't believe like him. He wants a full on revolution, and kill the pirates who have taken over the White House.

These Ron Paul supporters are serious nut jobs! He called Pres. Obama by the N word. They are serious racists who literally want to see the USA like it was in the days of black slavery, and Jim Crow laws!!!

Yeah, like this guy.

S3KgKGxeY0c

Only one of the Ron Paul supporters I know in real life (out of maybe six or seven) is white, and he's a leftist in pretty much every other aspect of his politics. I don't think supporting Ron Paul automatically makes you a villain.

[Kassad]

Ron Paul's campaign managed to pull in significant support from on-the-fence leftists who truly don't realize half of what they claim to support. One thing about Ron Paul supporters is that their arguments and rationalizations usually come word for word from his debate performances and speeches. They rely on key phrases that you have to know how to combat, but they also use fear tactics; claiming that center-left liberalism is socialist and progressive reforms like a living wage and socialized healthcare are 'big government.' I mean, Ron Paul supporters really need to sit down for an hour and look at what they're saying. Do you really want to leave corporate power totally unchecked?

Here's the one question that stumps them every single time: Ron Paul is a supporter of the Founding Fathers, right? Well, through their classical liberal and Enlightenment philosophy, they formulated a government based on checks and balances, where each branch of government looks over the other. Makes sense, I suppose. So riddle me this: why, since constitutionalists support the Founders, would Ron Paul supporters and libertarians want to leave corporate power totally unchecked? Doesn't that contradict the Founders' ideology of 'checks and balances?'

[JimmyJazz]

I'm not on their side--but I do admire them for getting up off their butts and protesting.

Well that's incredibly stupid.

[Jack]

If you're saying that many Ron Paul people are racist white assholes, I just don't buy it. Ron Paul doesn't promote nor endorse racism.

Stormfront had a fundraiser for Ron Paul, and refused to endorse John McCain when he won, still maintaining support for Ron Paul.

[Robert]

All he does is endorse the 10th Amendment of the United States Constitution, which means that all issues not listed in the initial nine rights are to be left to the states. So if Georgia wants to legalize lynching of minorities? That's their right. States must also have the right, then, to allow discrimination in the workplace, meaning that minorities could be paid lesser wages and have their benefits removed. In truth, it's a blank slate. Anything and everything could be legalized.Gosh, so many problems there:

1. What do you mean he " 'endorses' the 10th Amendment?" That statement is neither right nor wrong because it doesn't mean anything. The Tenth Amendment is in the Constitution whether Ron Paul can see it or not. Maybe you mean he recognizes its existence? (I would hope so.) Or do you mean perchance that he supports a reading of the Amendment you find dangerous?

2. "All issues"? It's neither "all" nor is it "issues." It's "powers," and not all powers, but some powers. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

3. The first nine rights in the Bill of Rights have nothing to do with federal powers, like the power to regulate commerce or to print money. The framers weren't trying to give Georgia the right to lynch blacks when they enacted the 10th Amendment. (Whether Ron Paul wants the states to have this power I can't imagine.) They were simply recognizing the existence of the states and the residual power of the people to govern themselves. What else could they do? Would you really want it presumed that the federal government can do absolutely anything it wants whether the power is expressly delegated to it or not?

4. Georgia does have the inherent power as a state to punish murder with the death penalty, but I wouldn't worry too much about lynching. The Eighth Amendment would prevent that as a form of punihsment. But maybe you mean private lynch mobs? If the state allowed its citizens to run amok lynching blacks under the Tenth Amendment, that would create problems addressed and remedied by another Amendment (XIV).

5. No, minorities can not be paid lesser wages under the 1oth Amendment or otherwise. The power to set minimum and equal wages is clearly with the federal government under the commerce clause, so your 10th Amendment wouldn't kick in in the first place, and even if it did, the equal protection clause and Equal Pay Act and on an on would trump it.

6. Anything and everything could be legalized? Like murdering the President? I don't think so.

But hey, you guys want a stateless society, right? No state, no laws. Power to the people. You're closer to Ron Paul than you think.:lol:

Don't get all pissed off, now. I'm just having fun, and Ron Paul is as likely to become the next president of the USA as Adolf Hitler was to become the chancellor of ... uh ... uh ... now you just hold on a damned minute!

[trivas7]

Stormfront had a fundraiser for Ron Paul, and refused to endorse John McCain when he won, still maintaining support for Ron Paul.
Wow, that surely makes RP a white racist.



Here's the one question that stumps them every single time: Ron Paul is a supporter of the Founding Fathers, right? Well, through their classical liberal and Enlightenment philosophy, they formulated a government based on checks and balances, where each branch of government looks over the other. Makes sense, I suppose.
This is garbage learned in high school civics. Anyone who knows anything re how government works knows that government at all levels often works at cross purposes for disparate political constituencies; the left hand doesn't know or care what the right hand is doing as long as it covers one's institutional ass, e.g. the drug "war".

[#FF0000]

Wow, that surely makes RP a white racist

I don't think anybody here claimed that. We just said that he has a lot of racists in his cheerleading squad.

[Hoxhaist]

This right wing revisionism of the American Revolution and fearmongering about the present and look at the results: a paranoid, racist gunman. glenn beck and other rightists should feel responsible for the shootings because their vitriolic ravings provoked it

[Kassad]

Robert the Great, I'll address your numbered points in basic paragraphs.

First of all, it is totally irrelevant whether an amendment is there or not. One has to believe in it, or at least express consent towards it, or it has no meaning. Ron Paul supports the application of the 10th Amendment, but the federal government doesn't recognize the same thing. Therefore, it is totally irrelevant whether it is in the Constitution or not. Powers are not delegated to the states, or else there would be no federal legislation. Your second point is irrelevant, for it's the exact same concept. On to your third topic, you're presenting an incredibly narrow-minded assertion. I'm not suggesting that the Founders should have given absolute power to the federal government, but I am merely pointing out what strict interpretation of the Constitution is. Strict interpretation suggests that anything, anything at all, not listed in the previous nine amendments is given to the state government to be debated, voted on and either accepted or rejected. Of course, I don't think all the Founders expected people to read the text like it was the fucking Gospel, but some people choose to do that. It's dangerous.

Are you fucking serious? The 8th Amendment would prevent 'cruel and unusual punishment,' much like it prevented the torture of Japanese citizens after Pearl Harbor? The Constitution is a worthless piece of text to me, but it is the same to even those government officials who claim to uphold it. Don't sit here and pretend like government officials give a damn about the Constitution or what is says. Regardless, in your next point, you totally ignore the point again. Any and all laws passed by the federal government could be seen as unconstitutional by a strict interpreter of the Constitution, as all powers are delegated to the states. That means that minimum wage legislation could be rendered void through this strict interpretation argument, thus it is totally irrelevant.

I'm calling for a centrally planned economy with a democracy at the central core of the proletarian state. I'm not calling for the abolition of laws, but merely the abolition of bourgeois law. Ron Paul is advocating reactionary barbarism that wants to rid the nation of any and all progress, including progressive reforms. Ron Paul is calling for a corporate state. There's a big difference, but I can't say I expect you to see it.

[Bud Struggle]

Well that's incredibly stupid.

What's stupid? That the Right is doing a great job of organizing the middle class of that the Left isn't? :D

The people going to "Tea Parties" could just been just as easily supporting Leftist causes. as a matter of fact, economically they have much more in common with the Left than the Right.

But the Left is still caught up in 19th Century catch phrases and its backroom politics (that is the back room of Mom's house) to have a clue about what to do.

[Communist Theory]

Wow I wonder what they would do if a few Communists showed up at their tea party? Probally run around in circles while we tried to show them how to use their brains.

[Plagueround]

Don't make the mistake of thinking the Right has gained a massive amount of momentum like TomK has (or is at least baiting people into responding to). These protests are nothing compared to the number of people that show up at leftist protests, they're just getting a lot more attention in the media.

[Bud Struggle]

Don't make the mistake of thinking the Right has gained a massive amount of momentum like TomK has (or is at least baiting people into responding to). These protests are nothing compared to the number of people that show up at leftist protests, they're just getting a lot more attention in the media.

Well that's a pretty unprovable assertion. :lol:

[Communist Theory]

TomK why is your avatar so hideous?
Looks like Emperor Palpetine

[Dimentio]

It has begun.

The right-wing has started converging in titty bars and TGI Friday's across the country to implement the new revolution. (I had no idea this is civic participation the founders had in mind.)

Their demands?

That all taxes on business be eliminated.
That all Communists be purged from the government and Universities.
That we withdraw from the UN - we invade who we want, when we want. (And here I thought that beloved revolutionary, Thomas Paine, who helped spearhead the American revolution, believed we are all "citizens of the world"?)
That abortion be ended.
That we prostrate ourselves and worship before the corporations.

Truly the revolution of patriots, spearheaded by the one and only Glenn Beck. With help from Bill O'Reilly, etc.

This Wednesday, across the country, right-wingers in America are having numerous boston tea party meetings (the naming of these things is always so awkward) to discuss the revolution. Some of these meetings have already taken place. The proof is in the pudding:

kwdOwgD5OsY

ktijKFURdPg

These guys aren't all talk, either. Some of them have taken dramatic action:

9GvNXWE4bTc

Your mind on Glenn Beck and Alex Jones: These guys actually believe the police are working with the communist government rather than protecting the interest of property. Convinced revolutionaries.

(Not that I have much of a problem with their target, cops, but, as North Eastern Federation of anarchist-communists points out, they were probably targeted because they were black (http://www.nefac.net/en/node/2475), which I do have a problem with.)

By the way,in the first video, book burning is mentioned, specifically "communist" University and evolutionary books. Which begs the question, which books are burned?

According to human events, these are evil books:

"Silent Spring" by Rachel Carlson, "On the Origin of Species" by Charles Darwn and "Unsafe at Any Speed" by Ralph Nader, and of course, The Communist Manifesto. These are the most "dangerous" books of the twentieth century, in the mind of right-wingers. I shit you not.

Has anybody here ever thought about becoming a counter-revolutionary?

If the Constitution Party and the Libertarian Party starts to go up, that could be good news for the Democrats. Because these right-wing parties will steal right-wing votes.

If we say that we have a right-wing county in the mid-term elections of 2010. About three forths of the populations is right-wing.

If it divides like this:

DEM's: 28%
REP's: 24%
LIB's: 24%
CON's: 24%

The Dems would have won anyway, due to the "first pass the post system in the US". It seems like the Republicans are badly divided.

[Bud Struggle]

TomK why is your avatar so hideous?
Looks like Emperor Palpetine

Close. It's Khruchshev. :)

[Communist Theory]

Close. It's Khruchshev. :)
Why would you want that for an avatar?
*Shivers*
Lenin save us.

[Plagueround]

Well that's a pretty unprovable assertion. :lol:

I seem to recall leftist protests shutting down entire cities.

[Robert]

There's a big difference, but I can't say I expect you to see it.

Oh.

As to your substantive points:



First of all, it is totally irrelevant whether an amendment is there or not.


Totally irrelevant to what? You can't just look at the provisions that appeal to you any more than Ron Paul can.


Powers are not delegated to the states, or else there would be no federal legislation.

I don't claim the contrary. The states have their own constitutions, and their powers are subordinate to the federal law where they conflict.


you're presenting an incredibly narrow-minded assertion.


I don't think so. (Now what?)


Of course, I don't think all the Founders expected people to read the text like it was the fucking Gospel, but some people choose to do that. It's dangerous.


Any extreme view can be dangerous. Your view is as scarier than theirs, to wit: The Constitution is a worthless piece of text to me. I think you're exaggerating at best. I'll bet you care plenty about those parts of the Constitution that you like. Like the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments.


The 8th Amendment would prevent 'cruel and unusual punishment,' much like it prevented the torture of Japanese citizens after Pearl Harbor?


You might at least have invoked something more current, like the waterboarding at Guantanamo. But to answer your question, I think that yes, today, the Supreme Court would on balance rule that lynching by a state government violates the 8th Amendment. There are always interpretations of vague clauses like "cruel and unusual" that I will disagree with. I would think a decision to the contrary imprudent, but the wording is so vague that it's hard to prove either way. Some think that life imprisonment is cruel and unusual. Maybe it is, it's a matter of opinion, right?


Any and all laws passed by the federal government could be seen as unconstitutional by a strict interpreter of the Constitution, as all powers are delegated to the states. That means that minimum wage legislation could be rendered void through this strict interpretation argument, thus it is totally irrelevant.

I started to ask before editing why you care since you're a revolutionary, but you coherently answer in the next paragraph. But again, it is not "all powers." It's some. And Ron Paul won't be making the decision of what is and what isn't reserved to the people. Judges will. I know, I know, when the worthless constitution is thrown out, we won't have judges. Yikes!


I'm not calling for the abolition of laws, but merely the abolition of bourgeois law. Ron Paul is advocating reactionary barbarism that wants to rid the nation of any and all progress, including progressive reforms


Well, we reactionaries continue to wonder at how the stateless society your comrades envision will have no laws at all, so I give you credit for not being utopian. You and I are just arguing around the edges of nothing, as neither of us supports Ron Paul anyway.


I'm calling for a centrally planned economy with a democracy at the central core of the proletarian state.


Centrally planned? And worldwide, no doubt. I don't think you need me to tell you the problems with that vision.

Oh, and this "any and all progress" business? Ron Paul graduated from Duke Medical School. (Any idea how smart you have to be to get admitted to that med school?) So I doubt he's against "any and all progress."

[Dimentio]

I have seen the clips now.

About 30% of the attendants in that particular meetings looked like cranks.

[Bud Struggle]

I seem to recall leftist protests shutting down entire cities.

Maybe, but unlike the people on the right no one had a clue what the people on the Left were protesting about.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Maybe, but unlike the people on the right no one had a clue what the people on the Left were protesting about.

Oh come on, do you really think that? First when you say "nobody knows what people on the Left protest about" your making a gross generalization that all leftists cannot convey their message through protests or demonstrations. This is clearly disproven through many events in history where large popular protests or general strikes have crippled an entire metropolitan eras or perhaps a even an entire country. You cant do that without people knowing what your pissed off about. Secondly, it should be blatantly obvious what most leftist protests are aimed towards: imperialist wars, or the failing capitalist economy.

Where as we have the "tea parties" which could be a combination of racist groups to crazy free market libertarians. So I'd say they are rather inconsistent and to unorganized to be conveying their "message" any better than we do.

[Bud Struggle]

Oh come on, do you really think that? First when you say "nobody knows what people on the Left protest about" your making a gross generalization that all leftists cannot convey their message through protests or demonstrations. This is clearly disproven through many events in history where large popular protests or general strikes have crippled an entire metropolitan eras or perhaps a even an entire country. You cant do that without people knowing what your pissed off about. Secondly, it should be blatantly obvious what most leftist protests are aimed towards: imperialist wars, or the failing capitalist economy.

Where as we have the "tea parties" which could be a combination of racist groups to crazy free market libertarians. So I'd say they are rather inconsistent and to unorganized to be conveying their "message" any better than we do.

Well, yea. I think not many people had a clue what the Anarchists in London had to say. I mean exactly what the anarchists point was never was really stated. Same for the protests in Greece.

On the other hand the objectives of the "Tea Partiers" are pretty well documented and stated.

I don't see them being overtly racist, though. It's a tax protest.

[Robert]

I mean exactly what the anarchists point was never was really stated.

Their point is that capitalism, cops, money, and imperialism are bad. And we shouldn't have them. And they won't go away. And we don't like it.

Can I be in the commie club now?

[mykittyhasaboner]

Well, yea. I think not many people had a clue what the Anarchists in London had to say. I mean exactly what the anarchists point was never was really stated. Same for the protests in Greece.
Er, I could imagine they were protesting the participants of the G20 summit? I think thats fairly obvious. The Greek protests were also very clear in what the protests were about; obviously they were protesting state repression (the killing of a 15 year old in cold blood), and their shitty economy.


On the other hand the objectives of the "Tea Partiers" are pretty well documented and stated.Right, because they get coverage on the evening news that actually shows there protests; where as in Greece all that was shown by media were rioters firebombing police.


I don't see them being overtly racist, though. It's a tax protest.They aren't explicitly racist as a group, meaning that the "tea parties" don't endorse any racist agenda. But I'm sure many of them are overtly racist since they are right-wing/ Ron Paul supporters.

[IcarusAngel]

I have no idea what these right-wing idiots are really advocating. Their philosophy is confusing and contradictory.

Furthermore, their numbers are inflated by Robert the Great's News Source:

http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/story/live_mic_catches_fox_host_inflating_crowd_estimate _by/

[IcarusAngel]

As Kassad pointed out, the founders believed in a system of checks and balances. It doesn't matter if we've strayed from that - the point is, why should corporations not be checked and balanced? Thomas Jefferson, for example, even advocated "crushing" corporations.

And what about all the tax hikes that had to happen because of Bush's war and Bush's refusal to do anything about corporate off-shore tax escapes?

These right-wing nuts are illogical, irrational, and stupid. Socialists should never lower themselves to the level of lies, propaganda, and ignorance like burning books - even if it meant our numbers increased. Socialism is about a revolution of freedom, not about worshipping before corporation.

[Jack]

Robert, Paul graduated from Duke to become an OBGYN. I think I've made my point.

[RGacky3]

I think not many people had a clue what the Anarchists in London had to say. I mean exactly what the anarchists point was never was really stated. Same for the protests in Greece.

blame CNN not the anarchists.

[AvanteRedGarde]

I think its funny how much bad mouthing occurred towards this section of the so-called "working" class. People act as if they themselves are enlighten and the "tea" people are either fools, morons or worse. And then people here moan about is how all we need to do is show up and enlighten them and prove how much better our plan is. But of course, this is never really going to happen (how many people here really went to one of these things to help raise the "consciousness" of these "misguided" "workers."?)

But when I suggest that the American working class is historically reactionary, I'm the bad guy.

[Bud Struggle]

blame CNN not the anarchists.

In the end it's the responsibility of the Revolutionaries to get out the Revolution--not CNN. These tea Parties are well oragized and well publicized. They are peaceful and orderly. They are all about getting information out and spreading the membership. No so much with anarchists riots. You Communists might not understand where these guys are comming from--but the average worker does. And that's what's important.

But I'm getting off message myself here so back to the point. I guess as a Capitalist I view these Tea Parties as a missed sale. These people at these Tea Parties are WORKERS; they are the Socialists and the Communist's client base yet they seem to be doing the bidding of the Bourgeoise. They have the Class Concisiousness of factory owners (even though they are workers in the factories.) The Capitalists are doing one hell of a job getting their message out. This is a missed opportunity for Communism.

[RGacky3]

No so much with anarchists riots.

Riots are an extreamly small part of what anarchists do, most of it is organizing, rallying support for specific goals, unionizing, food drives, non-government aid, things like that. Problem is, CNN does'nt cover that, they cover riots.

Glen beck is on Fox news, because CLEARLY his ideas are more friendly too the ruling class than anarchists.


This is a missed opportunity for Communism.

I agree, Capitalists ar edoing a great job of making it seam the government and the State is the enemy. problem is, they also have the educational system, the media, and polititions on their side. Communists just have themselves, and they have to fight against all of that, and they are fighting against assumptions put in by the ruling class.

[OneNamedNameLess]

This is all rather sad. If Communists were organisng such events and rallying with 600 marchers, a new red scare would no doubt be triggered.

[cb9's_unity]

Praise be to Glenn Beck! For is it not only he who will piss out the alloe to heal america's wounds!

On a serious note i can only only wish that us leftists had the same media power behind us that these right wing "revolutionaries" have. The only reason any of this shit gets the attention it does is because the capitalist media supports it.

[Bud Struggle]

On a serious note i can only only wish that us leftists had the same media power behind us that these right wing "revolutionaries" have. The only reason any of this shit gets the attention it does is because the capitalist media supports it.

As a Capitalist I keep in thinking: If I could think up a way to get the Communists message out to everyone so the people could bring in a Communist government--I'd make a million dollars! :D

[Robert]

Robert, Paul graduated from Duke to become an OBGYN. I think I've made my point.


What point is that? That he likes looking at naked women or something? Beats looking at naked men for a living. :thumbup1:

Seriously, I hope you aren't denigrating obstetrics or gynecology, or belittling the rigorous course requirements of Duke med students regardless of specialty.

[Dimentio]

Well, yea. I think not many people had a clue what the Anarchists in London had to say. I mean exactly what the anarchists point was never was really stated. Same for the protests in Greece.

On the other hand the objectives of the "Tea Partiers" are pretty well documented and stated.

I don't see them being overtly racist, though. It's a tax protest.

Well, the media works a lot to try to distort or ignore the message of large anti-globalisation protests. What most people are seeing are riots, not the message.

[Communist Theory]

I'm going to watch Glenn Beck tonight to see what hes going to say about yesterdays tea parties.

[mykittyhasaboner]

In the end it's the responsibility of the Revolutionaries to get out the Revolution--not CNN.
Obviously, and that's what revolutionaries do; they organize among the working class winning them over from bourgeois politics which is contradictory to their class interests. But it doesn't exactly help when media outlets actually give these non-radical tea fuckers coverage; meanwhile left wing protests are made out to be mindless riots or otherwise wanton displays of violence. Its not exactly fair is it?



These tea Parties are well oragized and well publicized. They are peaceful and orderly. They are all about getting information out and spreading the membership. No so much with anarchists riots.First of all, leftists don't always simply riot; the bulk of anarchist, communist, otherwise socialist organizing is comprised of supporting worker's struggles, protests/demonstrations, and alternative media/news. Many radical organizations and communist parties have very well publicized, organized, and orderly events; even in the US.



You Communists might not understand where these guys are comming from--but the average worker does. And that's what's important.
Is there a need for your patronizing comments, really? Because as far as I know, communists ARE average workers; and surely you know this too. I completely understand where these protests are coming from. They come from the false sense of freedom and democracy that most of these people thought they had, before the big bad "socialists" came along and took it all away. This type of stuff has been going on for a while now, and its not new or interesting in any way.


But I'm getting off message myself here so back to the point. I guess as a Capitalist I view these Tea Parties as a missed sale. These people at these Tea Parties are WORKERS; they are the Socialists and the Communist's client base yet they seem to be doing the bidding of the Bourgeoise.Actually, I have my doubts that all of them are workers. The majority of them are certainly "middle class" white people, which is utterly unsurprising. Our "client base" is with the workers, but not those who obviously wish to betray their own class for the bourgeois, and campaign for their interests.



They have the Class Concisiousness of factory owners (even though they are workers in the factories.) No they do not have class consciousness. Class to them, simply means how rich or poor you are; their "class consciousness" doesn't imply any sort of relevance to class relations to the means of production, nor how said relations are affected by the opposing class(es). They are simply protesting taxes; which is simply an utter waste of time.


The Capitalists are doing one hell of a job getting their message out. This is a missed opportunity for Communism. The capitalists surely are doing a great job, that's because they exert considerable influence over the majority of information and news that people hear and read everyday. While you say we "missed our opportunity"; we don't really have many opportunities to create a worker's movement.

[Bud Struggle]

Obviously, and that's what revolutionaries do; they organize among the working class winning them over from bourgeois politics which is contradictory to their class interests. But it doesn't exactly help when media outlets actually give these non-radical tea fuckers coverage; meanwhile left wing protests are made out to be mindless riots or otherwise wanton displays of violence. Its not exactly fair is it? No not fair. But what of it? Glen Beck was on his show today COMPLAINING of the unfairness of the media outlets. And he has a point--the media outlets aren't Conservative or Radical leftist. They are Modern Liberals--something quite different from both Beck and Communists.



First of all, leftists don't always simply riot; the bulk of anarchist, communist, otherwise socialist organizing is comprised of supporting worker's struggles, protests/demonstrations, and alternative media/news. Many radical organizations and communist parties have very well publicized, organized, and orderly events; even in the US. OK, I'll take your word for it. I just don't see it.



Is there a need for your patronizing comments, really? Because as far as I know, communists ARE average workers; and surely you know this too. My apologies--there was no intent to be patronizing. I read a number of comments above saying they didn't understand what the Tea Parties were protesting about. I responded to them.


I completely understand where these protests are coming from. They come from the false sense of freedom and democracy that most of these people thought they had, before the big bad "socialists" came along and took it all away. This type of stuff has been going on for a while now, and its not new or interesting in any way. I don't know about that--there was some real freedom going on, maybe there still is. I personally did the whole "growing up poor" thing and sarted a business and prospered just like the Capitalists say you did if you work hard, and all that. American Capitalism worked for me.


Actually, I have my doubts that all of them are workers. The majority of them are certainly "middle class" white people, which is utterly unsurprising. Our "client base" is with the workers, but not those who obviously wish to betray their own class for the bourgeois, and campaign for their interests. Nobody is betraying a class system they don't understand. It's the left's job to explain that system, and I just don't see it being done. for example, I see a few people on RevLeft (RGacky is a good example--and he's OI) working to expand class concsiousness, but even here--there's Stalin and Mao all over the place. Hardly the way to a working American's heart.



No they do not have class consciousness. Class to them, simply means how rich or poor you are; their "class consciousness" doesn't imply any sort of relevance to class relations to the means of production, nor how said relations are affected by the opposing class(es). They are simply protesting taxes; which is simply an utter waste of time. It's no waist of time if they could get taxes lowered and put more money in their pockets. It REAL to them.


The capitalists surely are doing a great job, that's because they exert considerable influence over the majority of information and news that people hear and read everyday. While you say we "missed our opportunity"; we don't really have many opportunities to create a worker's movement. Let me speak to you as a Capitalist: you have all the opportunities that you create for yourself. Personally, I think Communists would do lots better if they learned from Capitalists about how to be opportunists. ;)

[mykittyhasaboner]

I wrote out my whole reply, then my computer crashed. :closedeyes::bored: So unfortunately I'll have to be a bit more brief.

Lets start over...


No not fair. But what of it? Glen Beck was on his show today COMPLAINING of the unfairness of the media outlets. And he has a point--the media outlets aren't Conservative or Radical leftist. They are Modern Liberals--something quite different from both Beck and Communists.
Perhaps, but to consider that all media outlets are "modern liberals" would be pretty much false, considering that Beck himself is a media outlet, and hes a far-right conservative. Really, all shades of politics have their media; be it through newspapers, the internet, word of mouth whatever. The problem is that bourgeois politics dominates the airwaves and newsprint. It is so dominated by corporate media, that millions of people get their primary news and information from outlets like FOX or CNN. This is the type of influence I'm talking about - by making everyone think that Obama is some kind of socialist, will obviously make people scorn anything to do with socialism, just like Americans have been conditioned to since the first red scare.



OK, I'll take your word for it. I just don't see it.http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage - Imo, the PSL do some great work with ANSWER and whatnot, they even managed to get some decent interviews on TV (I reccomend you watch the videos)
http://marxistleninist.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/north-carolina-freedom-road-socialist-organization-hosts-regional-student-conference/
http://www.socialist.net/glasgow-schools-occupied.htm
http://libcom.org/news/electronics-workers-save-their-jobs-15042009





My apologies--there was no intent to be patronizing. I read a number of comments above saying they didn't understand what the Tea Parties were protesting about. I responded to them.No problem, I just found "you communists might not understand where they are coming fro" to be kind of offensive; considering that communists are working people who do sympathize with all other working and oppressed peoples in every corner of the world. I understand, these people are pissed because they are paying too many taxes that probably end up going to the military (not that they don't support the imperialist wars or anything; these are right wingers) and they have a right to be pissed because of that. But they have a completely skewed political outlook if they are blaming everything on "socialism". Its like the fuckin' boogy man, it comes and steals all of your money like a blood sucking parasite; thats what most people have been led to believe about socialism, and thats why it is incredbily difficult to break the ice when talking about achieving more political influence on the Left.


I don't know about that--there was some real freedom going on, maybe there still is. I personally did the whole "growing up poor" thing and sarted a business and prospered just like the Capitalists say you did if you work hard, and all that. American Capitalism worked for me.Congratulations, too bad the majority of people living in america won't find the same success.


Nobody is betraying a class system they don't understand. It's the left's job to explain that system, and I just don't see it being done. for example, I see a few people on RevLeft (RGacky is a good example--and he's OI) working to expand class concsiousness, but even here--there's Stalin and Mao all over the place. Hardly the way to a working American's heart.Well sure its our job to create class consciousness, but just because there are anti-communist and banal nationalist sentiments among some sections of the working class, is hardly evidence that the left is nonexistent or not doing their job.

About "stalin and mao all over the place"; Americans aren't the only people in the world, many people in the "third world" view Stalin and Mao as heroes. But if your only concerened with how to win workers over in the US, well then its necessary to point out just how extensively figures like mao and stalin are slandered and accused falsely. Workers should also educate themselves about the history of communist politics as well, which means breaking the barriers of anti-communist propaganda.



It's no waist of time if they could get taxes lowered and put more money in their pockets. It REAL to them.If you want to improve your economic security and the amount of money in your pocket, I would advise one to protest capitalism entirely, not just taxes.


Let me speak to you as a Capitalist: you have all the opportunities that you create for yourself. Personally, I think Communists would do lots better if they learned from Capitalists about how to be opportunists. ;)What I meant by "not given the opportunity" was that its not as simple as quickly seizing the opportunity. Communists should be very thorough and have well organized plans when it comes to organizatino and direct action. Sure, its quick and easy for a bunch of right-wingers to come protest taxes, because thats all they are trying to do, is protest taxes - rather than building a militant worker movement. You have to realize the difference.

[StalinFanboy]

THE TELEVISIONS ARE BRAINWASHING US!

I was waiting for him to say that Jews did 911. What a joke. Just a bunch of angsty white people.

"OH NOES THERE R NO WHITE PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE"

[Dust Bunnies]

I didn't read the 2nd page, only the 1st and 3rd. My opinion on this is simple.

If they do get the courage to go and do something revolutionary the moment the police start waving around guns at least half of them will give up and stop it. But if they do manage to cause some Anarchy maybe leftists can benefit, in the big fight between right wingers (fascists would probably jump in too), leftists can come in and fight too, like one big mosh pit (except people die in it).

[Havet]

It has begun.

The right-wing has started converging in titty bars and TGI Friday's across the country to implement the new revolution. (I had no idea this is civic participation the founders had in mind.)

Their demands?

That all taxes on business be eliminated.
That all Communists be purged from the government and Universities.
That we withdraw from the UN - we invade who we want, when we want. (And here I thought that beloved revolutionary, Thomas Paine, who helped spearhead the American revolution, believed we are all "citizens of the world"?)
That abortion be ended.
That we prostrate ourselves and worship before the corporations.

forbidden books:

"Silent Spring" by Rachel Carlson, "On the Origin of Species" by Charles Darwn and "Unsafe at Any Speed" by Ralph Nader, and of course, The Communist Manifesto. These are the most "dangerous" books of the twentieth century, in the mind of right-wingers. I shit you not.

Has anybody here ever thought about becoming a counter-revolutionary?

whatever they claim themselves to be, some things they demand are absolutely RIDICULOUS, even for some with an opposing ideollogy like me

That all taxes on business be eliminated - Only on businesses? If we are to eliminate taxes, then it must be on individuals as well.

That all Communists be purged from the government and Universities. - just because someone has different views than what they have, doesn't mean they should kick them out. If they think they are wrong then talk to them.

That we withdraw from the UN - we invade who we want, when we want. - I think the UN has failed as a decent organization to promote peace and the resolution of conflicts. Whether the US is in the UN or not, it should never invade any country under any circumstance. I go by the non-agression principle, which means that in the US case, they would only be legitimate if any country tried to attack them, which in the past 233 years, none has! (except the attack on their ships in WWI and pearl harbor in WWII)
That abortion be ended. - that is so fucking stupid i'm not even going to bother on this. PRO-LIFErs ARE ANTI-WOMANs. people should have as most freedom as possible, especially since the fetus hasnt even developed the connections to experience pain, and it is barely alive, it would be just as immoral to kill it as jacking off or removing a cancer.
That we prostrate ourselves and worship before the corporations

i don't have anything wrong with corporations who conduct in honest business, but i have something wrong with someone telling me what to worship and whom to submit to. Whether it is religion, government, corporations or any organization (including unions and communes) that has ever existed, to say that i have to bow before someone means that i do not own my life.

about the books, same as i said earlier: FREEDOM OF SPEECH
i may not agree with that it is written, but it just isn't rational to attack by removing their liberty instead of discussing ideas freely.

[Bud Struggle]

whatever they claim themselves to be, some things they demand are absolutely RIDICULOUS, even for some with an opposing ideollogy like me Well it's a little more complicated than that. I don't agree with all of what they say--but it doesn't hurt to understand what their points are.


That all taxes on business be eliminated -The point they have is that taxes on businesses are double taxation for individuals. Businesses don't pay taxes--they just COLLECT taxes from individuals and pass the meney on to the government. (Side note--as a business owner myself--they have a point. I collect what's owed and send a check to the government--I could care less what the business taxes are. I'm just a collection service for the IRS.)


That all Communists be purged from the government and Universities. If this is true--it is a bit harsh. Radical Leftests and Radical Rightists have done a good job keeping each other in check over the years.


That we withdraw from the UN - we invade who we want, when we want. The US invades who it wants to now--with or without the UN approval. Nothing much would change here. (Though getting th UN out of New York would seriously ease the illegal parking problem.) The UN besides for it's little gadfly issues is really a non entity in the world of American imperialism.



That abortion be ended. That, of course, is up for debate--a moral and philosophical one. Some people think a fetus is a human life, some not so much.


That we prostrate ourselves and worship before the corporations

i don't believe they really say THAT! :D

[RGacky3]

Workers should also educate themselves about the history of communist politics as well, which means breaking the barriers of anti-communist propaganda.

Why? Why should it matter to either the AMerican worker, the Mexican worker or the Etheopian worker what some Georgian leader of RUssia was doing in the 1930s. It does'nt matter, what matters is what they can do to liberate themselves in their situations, and that does not include following some guy that models himself out of a Russian Dictator.

The problem with this right wing nut jobs is that they have absolutely no idea about how Capitalism, imperialism, and ultimately socio-economic power structures work today, and thus they are basing all their resonings an a very ignorant understanding about how the world works.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Why? Why should it matter to either the AMerican worker, the Mexican worker or the Etheopian worker what some Georgian leader of RUssia was doing in the 1930s

More importantly why would the vast majority of workers give a shit , they woudlnt I dont blame them. Politics have to be interesting if your politics are boring there shit they can be interesting by being relevant or entertaining. Obviously the first one is something that should be focused on. Union work for example is relevant because if your family get to eat decent food or happy meals is much more important to you then the 1927 agricultural centralization reforms or whatever.

If your politics are boring - there shit.

[IcarusAngel]

cP1o0VpmJkE

[Die Neue Zeit]

Who are those costumed persons?

[Unclebananahead]

I like how they shot themselves in the foot with their unfortunate, self-imposed name of, 'teabaggers' Way to go right wingers.

[Bud Struggle]

Who are those costumed persons?

Well I didn't listen to the entire message, but the speaker said that America should not bail out companies that made bad mistakes--and he's right. You or I make a mistake--we don't get bailed out, why should some company?

I don't agree with everything here, I'm sure--but stuff like that is OK. I rather bail out a million poor bastards that lost their jobs and can't pay their mortage than one AIG.

[nightazday]

its not a revolution its a group of whiners and children