Problems with the communist experiment? How to change communism for the better..

[nightcrowred]

I've watched several documentary on the fallen USSR, and have noticed the few problems that lead to its demise. First was MAJOR censorship, not only on the press, and people in general, but in history and the way they wrote it in the books. Also not a "Free market" so as to have nothing driving its economy. It seemed almost as if there was no progression. Also it seemed to me that what was supposed to initially be a centralized democracy was only for a selected few, and power was not given to the people, until the late USSR's final years. This, only lead to people discussing the crimes committed by the government, and leading to despising its leaders with full distrust. How can we be sure (Here in the USA, and other western countries) to correct such mistakes, giving back to the people of this country, and ensuring that fate never leaves the hands of its people. How can we use democracy to achieve our goals. (Goals being, universal health care, censorship lines, social programs for the already poor, ensuring economic growth, while maintaining true communistic ideals.) Sorry that some of my history may be off, or that my full political view isnt in focus, however I have just joined the CPUSA, and am still trying to grasp how help the movment here. But I don't want the things that happened to the USSR, and I dont want to live like the North Koreans. I want a better country, one that cares for its people and has people before profits. But again I dont want to live like North Korea, and I would hate to see this country torn apart. Anyone with a plan? Ideas? or just plain comments?

[Comrade Dante]

Russia was never Communist!

The soviet union was a socialist country, and essentially state capitalist.

[StalinFanboy]

Leave the CPUSA and read Malatesta.

[NecroCommie]

We agree that the lack of democracy was a propblem, however I would not say that any kind of democracy existed in USSR after the very first years. The "democracy" of the last few years was parliamentarism, which is more of a joke than democracy. And I dare to disagree that the lack of central planning is a problem, since central planning is undemocratic. This ofcourse depends on what you mean by central planning.

There is little anyone can do to stop degeneration of a workers country. USSR degenerated due to material and political needs rather than some evil plot. The best thing to prevent this is propably to spread revolution to all of the world, since most problems in the soviet russia was due to its backwardness and poverty (even before the revolution). The revolution needs combined effort of all areas of expertise to work.

Also, not anything personal but I think that CPUSA is more of a social democratic party than a communist one.


EDIT: Oh... I would prefer to live in Stalins USSR rather than america of the same era. Freedom of speech and material posession (or lack of it) are not all there is to life.

[Q]

I've watched several documentary on the fallen USSR, and have noticed the few problems that lead to its demise. First was MAJOR censorship, not only on the press, and people in general, but in history and the way they wrote it in the books. Also not a "Free market" so as to have nothing driving its economy. It seemed almost as if there was no progression. Also it seemed to me that what was supposed to initially be a centralized democracy was only for a selected few, and power was not given to the people, until the late USSR's final years. This, only lead to people discussing the crimes committed by the government, and leading to despising its leaders with full distrust. How can we be sure (Here in the USA, and other western countries) to correct such mistakes, giving back to the people of this country, and ensuring that fate never leaves the hands of its people. How can we use democracy to achieve our goals. (Goals being, universal health care, censorship lines, social programs for the already poor, ensuring economic growth, while maintaining true communistic ideals.) Sorry that some of my history may be off, or that my full political view isnt in focus, however I have just joined the CPUSA, and am still trying to grasp how help the movment here. But I don't want the things that happened to the USSR, and I dont want to live like the North Koreans. I want a better country, one that cares for its people and has people before profits. But again I dont want to live like North Korea, and I would hate to see this country torn apart. Anyone with a plan? Ideas? or just plain comments?

You've been seeing a lot of capitalist "documentaries" I notice. For to understand the real causes of the demise of the Soviet Union, I suggest you use a clear scientific approach. Marxism provides the tools for an analysis of what went wrong in the USSR and The Revolution Betrayed (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm) is still a very good read on this subject.

Welcome to the forum!

[InTheMatterOfBoots]

Marxism provides the tools for an analysis of what went wrong in the USSR and The Revolution Betrayed (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1936/revbet/index.htm) is still a very good read on this subject.


Tbh, I wouldn't bother. It's very dull and doesn't really provide any answers apart from, "we could make this centrally operated state work even more efficiently!".

If you really want a true history of the origins of the USSR and the reasons why it failed I suggest you read these - The Russian Tragedy (http://libcom.org/library/the-russian-tragedy-alexander-berkman) , The Bolsheviks and Workers Control (http://libcom.org/library/the-bolsheviks-and-workers-control-solidarity-group)and The Ukranian Makhnovist Movement (http://libcom.org/history/1917-1921-the-ukrainian-makhnovist-movement)

[NecroCommie]

Nightcrowred: Please do notice how the last two (three?) writers are trying to subtly offer their own political schools of thought by interpeting history through their respective theories. Nothing wrong with that exactly, just wanted you to notice.

[teenagebricks]

Changing communism for the better is pointless, Kim Il-sung tried to change communism, look what happened there.

[Vendetta]

Changing communism for the better is pointless, Kim Il-sung tried to change communism, look what happened there.

So what do you think they should do then?

[teenagebricks]

Nothing, I'm quite happy with my ideas the way they are.

[NecroCommie]

Whaaat? Your ideas are not communism. They might be communist, but not communism. I bet that you too want to change communism for the better. At least the mainstream idea of communism, and at least what you think is better.

[Vendetta]

Nothing, I'm quite happy with my ideas the way they are.

Your ideas? What are they?

[InTheMatterOfBoots]

Nightcrowred: Please do notice how the last two (three?) writers are trying to subtly offer their own political schools of thought by interpeting history through their respective theories. Nothing wrong with that exactly, just wanted you to notice.

Yeah but at least the article I gave represent historical accounts of the period leading up to the revolution. If these facts represent a subjective bias i'd be interested to hear how.
Trotsky's "The Revolution Betrayed" on the other hand is an openly biased analysis of the Soviet Union (he makes very clear his political objectives) after he lost his struggle for the parties bureaucracy.

[NecroCommie]

Yeah but at least the article I gave represent historical accounts of the period leading up to the revolution. If these facts represent a subjective bias i'd be interested to hear how.
Trotsky's "The Revolution Betrayed" on the other hand is an openly biased analysis of the Soviet Union (he makes very clear his political objectives) after he lost his struggle for the parties bureaucracy.
You know very well that giving facts is not a quarantee of non-biased argument. Facts can be chosen and iterpreted.

This however, is not a place to argue this (biased or non-biased argument). And I dont exactly think that having a bias is a bad thing. What I think is that those bias should be open and reviewed by everyone.

[teenagebricks]

Your ideas? What are they?
Ideas for what specifically? I generally dislike labels, they tend to detract from the meaning of their ideologies so I'm not going to call myself a Castroist or a Maoist or a Stalinist if that is what you are expecting of me.

[Vendetta]

Ideas for what specifically? I generally dislike labels, they tend to detract from the meaning of their ideologies so I'm not going to call myself a Castroist or a Maoist or a Stalinist if that is what you are expecting of me.

Well, you said 'I'm quite happy with my ideas the way they are.' So what ideas are those?

[Hoxhaist]

Stalin's USSR was what it should have stayed only when revisionism set in did the USSR weaken until struck with Gorby's coup de grace of glasnost

[teenagebricks]

Well, you said 'I'm quite happy with my ideas the way they are.' So what ideas are those?
Like I said, if you want to discuss my opinions of a specific matter, please give me some indication of what matter it is, because first of all I have no idea what this has to do with the topic at hand, and second I have no idea why I am being challenged over this. Also I can not answer a question I haven't been asked yet, what do you want to know? Do you want me to explain my views on immigration? Would you like to know if I support worldwide socialism? You want my ideas on the theory of evolution? What is it you want to know?

[Jack]

You joined the wrong group then. CPUSA throughout most of its existance was just a Moscow front organization. It supported Stalin when he was in power, Kruechev when he was in power etc etc etc.

Pick up some Kropotkin!