(Begging from UAF) Euro Elections

[Holden Caulfield]

We need to act urgently to stop the Nazi BNP. Please donate now!

The British National Party (BNP) is planning to stand in the European elections in June 2009 and will be organising activities across the country.
The BNP is a fascist organisation, and its leader Nick Griffin was convicted in 1998 of incitement to racial hatred after denying that the Holocaust - the murder of 6 million Jews and millions of others – took place. Recent votes received in several regions, including the North West (where Nick Griffin is heading the BNP list), Yorkshire and Midlands, indicate a real danger of the BNP gaining seats to the European Parliament. This would represent a major electoral breakthrough and would allow them huge resources, influence, greater respectability, and the ability to work with other far right and fascist parties in Europe.

Please donate funds now to help stop the BNP gaining seats in the European elections. This will help fund days of action, rallies, large events and press adverts to reach millions in the run-up to these elections.


Again this is a brilliant example of how not to build a movement, its like they go down a check list:

- call them nazi's
- mention the Holocaust and Griffins jew hating past
- give no analysis or class based political message
- offer no alternatives
- call for people to vote against them (vote Labour why the fuck not eh?)
- honestly think that a few chants at a few rallies will stop the BNP from appealing to the working class


Anybody have any other thoughts on this?

(UAF site (http://www.uaf.org.uk/))

[Holden Caulfield]

bump:blink:

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

UAF seems more like a middle class moral crusade which bourgeois politicians latch onto to win votes rather then an organization seriously committed to fighting fascism.

[bellyscratch]

I agree with some of the stuff you say, but I want to put my efforts into limiting the progress of the BNP and I can't see any other group aimed at doing this. Surely its better than doing nothing, right?

[teenagebricks]

No other group? (http://www.antifa.org.uk/)

[rednordman]

Again this is a brilliant example of how not to build a movement, its like they go down a check list:

- call them nazi's
- mention the Holocaust and Griffins jew hating past
- give no analysis or class based political message
- offer no alternatives
- call for people to vote against them (vote Labour why the fuck not eh?)
- honestly think that a few chants at a few rallies will stop the BNP from appealing to the working class


Anybody have any other thoughts on this?

(UAF site (http://www.uaf.org.uk/)) Its funny this. Where I work, someone had put a leaflet on the noticeboard which stated for people not to vote for the BNP..but for labour instead. It was an actual official leaflet aswell, not something someone had drawn up using crayons. Obviously its better people vote labour than the BNP but these kinds of tactics are only going make people think that they are getting told what to do. Anyhow, why should they stop the BNP by voting for the party that is indirectly responsible for its rise?

[bellyscratch]

Antifa? no thanks, they have no chance of attracting any sort of large movement as they have no means to connect with the majority of the working class

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

We want to build a large socialist movement not a large anti facist one. Antifa is just to keep the fuckers in check.

[bellyscratch]

I don't really see the point in Antifa...

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

It stops our meetings getting attacked and stops fash having influence on our streets. The whole "winning the working class over" needs to be done by a socialist movement not an antifascist one.

[bellyscratch]

It stops our meetings getting attacked and stops fash having influence on our streets.

How does it do this then?

[teenagebricks]

A lot of people write UAF off as a product of Labour, not very progressive when you consider that we are trying to win the support of the public.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Attacking meetings and intimidating members of the community is hard to do with broken legs or the fear of getting broken legs.

[MilitantAnarchist]

I don't really see the point in Antifa...
Antifa is a reaction to fascist action... I dont see the point in the organisation you support :- 'stop the war coalition', how many years has it been now? The feeble approach used for that just satisfies the state....
Antifa uses direct action against fascism, it is a uniting force, without anarchistic organisations like it, we'd just have tossers like UAF and the traitors at Searchlight... thats the point in Antifa

[teenagebricks]

UAF is the same as Stop The War, two great causes which are more than worth making a stand against, but what have they really achieved? Problems like fascism and war are growing, organisations like these are supposed to be out there dealing with issues that matter, not sitting around a table listing to Billy Bragg or jerking off over pictures of Ken Livingstone.

[bellyscratch]

Antifa is a reaction to fascist action... I dont see the point in the organisation you support :- 'stop the war coalition', how many years has it been now? The feeble approach used for that just satisfies the state....
Antifa uses direct action against fascism, it is a uniting force, without anarchistic organisations like it, we'd just have tossers like UAF and the traitors at Searchlight... thats the point in Antifa

If it wasn't for StWC then I'm pretty sure the protests this year in solidarity with the people of Gaze would not of been as big...

When I've been involved with UAF we've actually gone and confronted the BNP on the streets. We've found out we're they planned to do have stalls on the streets, then set up nearby to counteract what they're doing.

Maybe there is a need for an organisation like Antifa, but without an anti-fascist organisation thats prepared to work in the open doing something at the same time, then I don't think its going to be too effective..

[MilitantAnarchist]

If it wasn't for StWC then I'm pretty sure the protests this year in solidarity with the people of Gaze would not of been as big...

When I've been involved with UAF we've actually gone and confronted the BNP on the streets. We've found out we're they planned to do have stalls on the streets, then set up nearby to counteract what they're doing.

Maybe there is a need for an organisation like Antifa, but without an anti-fascist organisation thats prepared to work in the open doing something at the same time, then I don't think its going to be too effective..

But dont you work with the authorities? as apposed to against them?
Antifa does do 'non-violent' action against BNP, because i do it. I pass out home made leaflets on BNP truths, and by talking to people ext... We just add the element of violence to combat the violent ideal the fascists have.
The Stop The War Coalition is a waste of time... Marching up and down aint changed a thing has it. You have followers like Tony Benn and Lindsey German, its just another load media friendly, celebrity pr raising, do-gooder hippy shit! StWC is fucking dead now. But they aint the issue here. UAF are just the same though, you can shove all your MTV comerical type, tshirt wearing, spice girl supported bollocks right up your fucking arse! Your helping no one but your own self awareness....

[Pogue]

UAF is what you expect in this political age, where class struggle is low but there is a large pervading idea of social liberalism mixed in with a lack of talk about class based alternatives or militant struggle.

UAF is trying to be a broad based group who peacefully rally everyone possible against the BNP based on the more radical liberal analysis that fascism has no place in a liberal democracy because it threeatens free speech and equality of all people regardless of colour, gender, etc. To this ends UAF tries to rally *everyone* including business people, Conservatives, the whole lot in an 'acceptable' (to the ruling class and many people in wider society) against the BNP, but in their fashion.

Because they don't have a revolutionary socialist or class based perspective naturally they're not going to be all 'Fascism is an extension of capitalism' or 'Fascism divides workers amongst themselves instead of their real enemies' in their rhetoric, and because they're broad based they're not going to say 'Vote Greens' because then they'd get no support from everyone else and vice cerca.

I think people are quite unfair with their attacks on UAF. Naturally in a period of low class struggle, all struggles which should be conducted from a socialist perspective will be done from a reformis, liberal or social democratic perspctive. For example, most workers trust reformist unions instead of their own radical self-organisation, or vote for one of the big three. The UAF leaders are not revolutionaries and so its not a revolutionary organisation.

What they're doing is what you'd expect from people without revolutionary class conciousness.

But what we thus then remember in this is that its the leadership who are naff. The people who make the organisation, like with all reformist groups from the TUC to the Stop the War coalition are good people with good morals and ideas who usually get fucked off by the leadership (i.e. UAF leadership leading people away from the Nazis to prevent people being able to get the fascists off the streets, and the leadership colluding with the police).

So we'd expect this sort of stuff and we'd hope to fight against it and get organised militant workers resisting them in a mass, revolutionary left wing organisation.

Antifa doesn't claim to be the supreme force of Anti-fascism. If you read their website they're quite humble about themselves. People misunderstand Antifa. Its just a collection of people who feel a need to fight fascism physically because they're aware of fascism's physical agenda throughout history. They are needed because there are loads of fascists who would do damage in terms of fists and kicks and also in terms of being in power and attacking everyone who opposes them.

Antifa shouldn't be looked at a solid organisation, its a collection of like minded individuals working together from a class based militant perspective. They support a mass revolutionary libertarian socialist movement against capitalism and the state and organise along those lines, i.e. by not supporting Searchlight etc, and also want to build a mass movement against fascism, from propoganda work. They do this, but are limited in their effect by their size. Their size and current capabilities is best suited to being physical combatants of the very real physical fascist threat in the UK and worldwide. Antifa is anarchist/communist in orientation so it *does* have a mass, class based perspective and ideology but is sadly not very big at the moment.

[teenagebricks]

Fascists need to be scared to leave their homes because they don't want to get their heads kicked in. At present fascists simply aren't scared of bureaucrats and LMHR festivals, maybe when they are, I will make time for UAF.

[bellyscratch]

But dont you work with the authorities? as apposed to against them?
Antifa does do 'non-violent' action against BNP, because i do it. I pass out home made leaflets on BNP truths, and by talking to people ext... We just add the element of violence to combat the violent ideal the fascists have.
The Stop The War Coalition is a waste of time... Marching up and down aint changed a thing has it. You have followers like Tony Benn and Lindsey German, its just another load media friendly, celebrity pr raising, do-gooder hippy shit! StWC is fucking dead now. But they aint the issue here. UAF are just the same though, you can shove all your MTV comerical type, tshirt wearing, spice girl supported bollocks right up your fucking arse! Your helping no one but your own self awareness....

Chill out :blink:

Like I said before I have problems with UAF as I do with StWC and just about every political organisation I've come across in one way or another. But I agree with the basic aims of these organisations so I'll do my best and work with them.

Where I live, Sunderland, is neglected and full of apathy. Everything gets sucked into Newcastle. If I want to do something political then it seems like I have to go there to do it. But I shouldnt have to go there all the time, and so I do my best in the conditions i'm in, and those conditions consist of the SWP being the only active group in my area and its either work with them or do things by myself. I don't agree with them on everything and I will voice my opinions where I need to.

[Holden Caulfield]

Good post HLVS,

small point from me: the use of physical force doesn't have to be kicked peoples heads in, it can be other things. UAF's action against the BPP at Leeds - to physically occupy the place they wanted to be - was a brilliant tactic and something i would wholeheartedly support, however UAF ruin it for themselves when they do things like turn up to RWB to chant a few slogans, wave a placard or two and then take a photo of it all and fuck off.

UAF should be a united front with sound class based politics and with good analysis that goes further than accusations of the BNP being nazis, supported by bourgeois politicians. The fact is, it is not. Therefore antifa must exist.

As for appealing to the workers, antifa is just that ANTI-fascist, its members are part of other organisations that offer alternatives to the working class be that Afed, Classwar, the SP or other leftist groups

[Wanted Man]

It's sad to see this. How does the train of thought even work? "They're gaining electoral seats! Let's just call them nazis and beg people for money and to vote Labour!" :confused:


UAF is the same as Stop The War, two great causes which are more than worth making a stand against, but what have they really achieved? Problems like fascism and war are growing, organisations like these are supposed to be out there dealing with issues that matter, not sitting around a table listing to Billy Bragg or jerking off over pictures of Ken Livingstone.
Who listens to Billy Bragg, anyway? :tt2:

[Vanguard1917]

Unite Against Fascism represents, in a slightly more militant form, the idiotic outlook of the establishment. There's very little to be supported about its irrational, hysterical and pro-establishment positions.

[Melbourne Lefty]

- call them nazi's
- mention the Holocaust and Griffins jew hating past
- give no analysis or class based political message
- offer no alternatives
- call for people to vote against them (vote Labour why the fuck not eh?)
- honestly think that a few chants at a few rallies will stop the BNP from appealing to the working class


Think you got it down pat there HC...

UAF is copying the BNPs begging bowl tactics. This has worked well for the BNP so they assume that it will work well for them.

The only problem is that the supporters of the BNP believe they are winning a fight against the forces of evil and that the entire political establishment is against them. Thats the mentality that has been bred into the rank and file membership.

The UAFs supporters are being asked to give money to support... what? A group that doesnt stand for elections themselves and then tells others how to vote?

Its a touch bizarre to say the least.

Antifa is there to make sure the BNP and groups like it keep their head down.

Lets not pretend that its to protect left wing meetings, the BNP has restructured and even if it wanted to couldnt construct a campaign like that. It has spent the last 9 years turning itself into a conventional political party. Antifa is there to make sure that venue owners and BNP organisers remain scared.

If groups like antifa and other squadist groups were not around then the BNP would almost certainly be able to publicly advertise its meetings in many areas. This would almost certainly lead to a massive boost in both its membership numbers and confidence.

Antifa, on reflection, is probably doing more good against the BNP with a few dozens than all the UAF marches there have been.

That doesnt mean that Antifa and groups like it are a long term solution, they are not. The only way to stop groups like the BNP is to kill off their base by providing a different analysis of the world to the people it wants to influence. UAF is not doing this, it is herding uni students and nothing more.

As such in the field of combatting far right extremism in the UK the antifa way is the only way that is so far producing anything in the way of concrete results.

[bellyscratch]

I've just got back from the Sunderland UAF launch meeting via a few alcoholic beverages in town, and I've got to say it was the most promising political meeting I've ever attended in my 2/3 years living in Sunderland. It seemed to bypass many of the criticism in this thread.

Anyway, I'll give more info on what happened once the alcohol is out of my system :D

[Patchd]

I've just got back from the Sunderland UAF launch meeting via a few alcoholic beverages in town, and I've got to say it was the most promising political meeting I've ever attended in my 2/3 years living in Sunderland. It seemed to bypass many of the criticism in this thread.

Anyway, I'll give more info on what happened once the alcohol is out of my system :D

Well hopefully this will be a good thing, although I'll be skeptical of any philosophical or tactical shift by the UAF, I'll have a read when you've sobered up :p :D

[bellyscratch]

Right... I've sobered up now so I'll give a bit more details about what went on.

42 people from different backgrounds (marxists, anarchists, activists, students (domestic and 'foreign'), trade unionists, teachers, muslims, musicians etc) attended the meeting, which may not sound a lot to people on here, but for Sunderland this is something that has not happened for many, many years. After the meeting actually finished it must of taken at least another half an hour for people to leave the room because everyone was so enthusiastic about how things have started and just wanted to network.

Throughout the meeting there was a strong anti-capitalist/anti-neoliberalist and pro-working class message coming through. I think the general message that will come out from us is that the current state of capitalism and the govenment is to blame for the problems that are happening in the north east (For people who don't know the north east was one of the worst affected regions of the decline of heavy industry in Britain. It was a very big mining and ship building area with a strong community)

We're going to come up with our own leaflets, giving out the message that not only are the BNP not what the legitimate party they are trying to portray themselves to be, but also combat the general anti-immigration and anti-multicultural arguments that they are putting forward.

We're also going to go out into the most neglected parts of the city, the many estates in Sunderland, which don't have the most friendly reputations and have a strong BNP support, to put our message across.

People were wanting to do some 'more creative' propaganda and there were also suggestions that a bit of 'civil disobediance' is a tactic that could be used, if we know of any fascists in our area ;)

A steering committee was set up from the meeting, as well as a University based group who have organised a follow up meeting to discuss activity on campus. Not only that but there were people from around Bishop Auckland who are planning on getting some work done around that area.

This was just a launch meeting, but hopefully this can just be the start of more general left wing political activity in the area.