"...Or Barbarism"

[trivas7]

Having just started 'Earth Abides (http://www.amazon.com/Earth-Abides-George-R-Stewart/dp/0345487133/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239462473&sr=8-1)' by George R. Stewart I'm again reminded of the silly policy here on RevLeft contra primitive anarchists. First published in 1949, this is the story of a post-apocalypse America where the remnants of humankind gradually revert back to hunting-gathering status. Many reviewers on Amazon note how prescient this story is, especially in its depiction of human psyches all too common today -- lacking purpose, focus, and exhibiting low survival skills when pressed (as your typical lib arts graduate and child of the 60s I plead guilty). If this is a real possibility then it's just a matter of psychological denial not to consider what this outcome might look like. Primmies too, I would remind you, want to bring down capitalism as much as you.

[Bud Struggle]

How are the primatives different from the Anarchists that usually populate this place?

Just wondering.

[trivas7]

How are the primatives different from the Anarchists that usually populate this place?

Vide here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitivist_Anarchism).

[PRC-UTE]

primitivism is just an expression of alienation. just ask tyler durden.

[trivas7]

primitivism is just an expression of alienation. just ask tyler durden.
I haven't a clue what you mean, except to dismiss anarcho-primitivism w/o a thought.

[PRC-UTE]

I haven't a clue what you mean, except to dismiss anarcho-primitivism w/o a thought.

modern society produces alienation because workers are not in control of production. since materialists claim that what you do is what you are, being alienated from what you do produces mental anguish. the idea of primitivism and getting back to nature is a way to escape that alienation. a primitive economy would put producers in direct control of their toil.

of course the other explanation is simply that primitivists are simply clueless, privileged spoilt eejits

[Bud Struggle]

Thanks for the link
.
Well, 8 billion nomads wandering around the world may cause a traffic jam or two--but I kind of like the idea. I mean, I don't think it's really workable, but it's interesting.

[trivas7]

the idea of primitivism and getting back to nature is a way to escape that alienation. a primitive economy would put producers in direct control of their toil.

But this is exactly what UNalienated society looks like according to Marx, no? So I don't take your meaning that anarcho-primitivism is an expression of alienation. In class divided society, everything is an expression of alienation, no?

[Dimentio]

But this is exactly what UNalienated society looks like according to Marx, no? So I don't take your meaning that anarcho-primitivism is an expression of alienation. In class divided society, everything is an expression of alienation, no?

Try to look into serious alternatives (http://en.technocracynet.eu) how a post-capitalist society might look like.

[Verix]

i think primitivism is a great idea!....untell one guy finds a gun and procedes to masscare half the world who are only armed with rocks and sticks theres a rule of the human race those with power will always fuck over the person weaker then them, the native americans are great example of this......

[Jimmie Higgins]

I like literacy and travel and communication and eating without having to work 20 hours for it. I also like not worrying that one year's drought means that I will die.

Primitiveists are basically calling for the death of most of the population of the earth. Also it's Utopian, how do you get there? Wait for a natural disaster and hope that such a catastrophic event doesn't just cause the military to be your new boss.

It's like ludditeism: your oppression doesn't come from machiney, it comes from your relationship to that machiney - you can still be exploited if there's capitalism but you're using a butter-churn. However, if we get rid of capitalism and have worker's power, then you can have all the best machinery and use it to make yourself work less.

Primativists should simply support a worker's revolution and then go grab some land after the revolution and live their fantasy while the rest of us enjoy power over our own jobs, healthcare, and better food, awesome movies and music made by radical film and music collectives inspired by the revolution.

[trivas7]

Try to look into serious alternatives (http://en.technocracynet.eu) how a post-capitalist society might look like.
IMO Technocracy is as utopian as one gets. Besides the usual socialist perennial question w/ no answer -- how do you get there? -- it's just the dream that technology will solve all problems. Capitalists of all ilks believe the same. Barbarism, like it or not, is more likely our species future.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

IMO Technocracy is as utopian as one gets. Besides the usual socialist perennial question w/ no answer -- how do you get there? -- it's just the dream that technology will solve all problems. Capitalists of all ilks believe the same. Barbarism, like it or not, is more likely our species future.

In that case I suggest you save yourself from considerable anguish and kill yourself. Now.

[trivas7]

In that case I suggest you save yourself from considerable anguish and kill yourself. Now.
You fear to the point of suicide the way your ancestors lived for tens of thousands of years. How sad. :(

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Primitivism is perfectly legitimate - if it's kept to the individual and not forced on others. Perhaps your neighbor doesn't want to live like a nomad 20,000 years ago. Perhaps he wants to live like a nomad 8,000 years ago. :D

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You fear to the point of suicide the way your ancestors lived for tens of thousands of years. How sad. :(

We abandoned it with good reason. Stagnant barbarism is unkind to both the species as a whole and the individuals within it.

[bcbm]

It's like ludditeism: your oppression doesn't come from machiney, it comes from your relationship to that machiney - you can still be exploited if there's capitalism but you're using a butter-churn.

This isn't really what the Luddites were struggling about. They didn't believe the oppression came from the machines; they destroyed the machines because they threatened their livelihoods.

[trivas7]

We abandoned it with good reason. Stagnant barbarism is unkind to both the species as a whole and the individuals within it.
According to Marx the division of labor came about through settled agriculture and the development of productive forces. Kindness had nothing to do w/ it.