BNP 'threat' to Labour in Europe

[KurtFF8]

Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7993595.stm)




http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45653000/jpg/_45653635_006993269-1.jpg Harriet Harman says the BNP may challenge Labour in Europe

The British National Party could pose a major threat to Labour in the upcoming European elections, Labour's deputy leader Harriet Harman has said.
The BNP "are a bigger threat than they have been before", she told the Independent newspaper in an interview.
She also outlined Labour's efforts to counter the BNP ahead of elections for the European Parliament in June.
Labour is "focused on the BNP in this election in a way it hasn't been previously," she added.
'Below the radar'
Labour is using the slogan "fairness not fear" in areas where there is heavy BNP activity, instead of its national banner "winning the fight for Britain's future".
It is also working with anti-fascist groups and using anti-BNP "battlebuses".
Ms Harman, who is also leader of the Commons and Labour's chairman, was speaking after a campaign visit to north-west England, where BNP leader Nick Griffin is a candidate.
"Most people are not aware the BNP is standing," she said. "It is below the radar. There is very low public awareness of these elections.
"For us, it is a question of pointing out the dangers of the BNP, which now wears suits but whose ideology is as pernicious as ever."
While obviously we shouldn't be too caught up in the Labour Party's politics (although they are somewhat important at times), this does show that (as many have been saying) the right can capitalize on economic downturns as well and the left needs to be better organized.

[h0m0revolutionary]

"Fairness not fear"

yup! that'll beat the BNP

Goooooooooooooooooooo Labour! (away)

[teenagebricks]

I'm all for Labour working against the BNP, I'd probably even consider giving them my vote if it kept the BNP out, but I hardly think Harriet Harman is the best person to spearhead this (or any) campaign.

[h0m0revolutionary]

I'm all for Labour working against the BNP, I'd probably even consider giving them my vote if it kept the BNP out, but I hardly think Harriet Harman is the best person to spearhead this (or any) campaign.

Labour have brought in immigration regulations that BNP members have wet dreams about.

A vote for Labour is condoning their record in Government, a record of war, privitisation and consistent attacks of working class living conditions.

If you're going to vote then that's up to you, but don't be fooled into tihnking Labour can or will ever tackle fascism seriously.

[teenagebricks]

I don't believe Labour can tackle fascism, maybe in the 1970s they might have had a chance, but not anymore. While I understand that Labour are useless when it comes to immigration, I know the BNP would only make it worse, I also support Labour's other policies more than I support the BNP's. Basically I'd rather have a misguided social capitalist representing my country than a fascist. To be quite honest though I don't even know who else is standing in the Euro elections so obviously I'm in no position to say who I support, I don't really take electoral politics too seriously.

[communard resolution]

I'd probably even consider giving them my vote if it kept the BNP out,

That's the sole point of Labour's ludicrous campaign. Don't be fooled.

[communard resolution]

Labour have brought in immigration regulations that BNP members have wet dreams about.

A vote for Labour is condoning their record in Government, a record of war, privitisation and consistent attacks of working class living conditions.

Spot on, 100% agreed.

[teenagebricks]

That's the sole point of Labour's ludicrous campaign. Don't be fooled.
Not in the least, like I said, I don't even know who else is standing, so it's impossible for me to make an informed decision. However if it came down to just those two parties, I know who I would vote for.

[Sam_b]

While I understand that Labour are useless when it comes to immigration, I know the BNP would only make it worse

That implies that the BNP are in a position to put a credible campaign together to challenge for government. They've not though, and especially at Euro elections level have no real say in changing anything. They will use it as a platform and to try and force local measures through.

We don't fight fascism by campaigning for the lesser evil. We focus our attacks on the BNP rather than supporting Labour. Nobody wins in 'lesser evil' politics.

[robbo203]

That implies that the BNP are in a position to put a credible campaign together to challenge for government. They've not though, and especially at Euro elections level have no real say in changing anything. They will use it as a platform and to try and force local measures through.

We don't fight fascism by campaigning for the lesser evil. We focus our attacks on the BNP rather than supporting Labour. Nobody wins in 'lesser evil' politics.

I thought you lot in the SWP used to say "vote labour but without illusions" while attacking organisations like the WSM refusing to support the "lesser evil". Have you now seen the folly of your ways?

[teenagebricks]

That implies that the BNP are in a position to put a credible campaign together to challenge for government. They've not though, and especially at Euro elections level have no real say in changing anything. They will use it as a platform and to try and force local measures through.

We don't fight fascism by campaigning for the lesser evil. We focus our attacks on the BNP rather than supporting Labour. Nobody wins in 'lesser evil' politics.
I agree, but I am by no means a Labour supporter, and I likely never will be, however if I get a vote then I am going to use it if it kills me, of course I rather would vote for a real socialist party, but if it happens that I don't have the option to do that then what should I do? Would you have me vote for the Tories instead? You would know, are the SWP standing in the Euro elections?

[Pogue]

If you want to vote against the BNP vote for 'No to EU Yes To Democracy', which is a European election group made up of the Socialist Party, Communist Party of Britain and a number of trade unionists. Its been endorsed by the SWP I believe.

http://no2eu.com/

[Sam_b]

I thought you lot in the SWP used to say "vote labour but without illusions" while attacking organisations like the WSM refusing to support the "lesser evil". Have you now seen the folly of your ways?

I don't want to derail the thread with such nonsense, but if you're trying to make any point out of this you won't. There maybe was a time where voting labour was an acceptable left position, but politics is certainly not a constant.

[h0m0revolutionary]

If you want to vote against the BNP vote for 'No to EU Yes To Democracy', which is a European election group made up of the Socialist Party, Communist Party of Britain and a number of trade unionists. Its been endorsed by the SWP I believe.

http://no2eu.com/

The NO2EU 'coalition' is a loose gathering of Stalinists (from the CPB, RMT etc) that has for reasons that are beyond me managed to attract some tailing Trotskyists =/

http://no2eu.com/

i'm glad you put that link, i urge everyone to actually go read some of the reactionary, right-wing garbage being carefully dressed up as left-wing policies.

They denounce the "so called 'free movement' of labour" within the EU and continue with an outcry against the "social dumping of exploited foreign workers in Britain". This is completely nationalist - a really sad attempt at the left to build on popularism and quasi-nationalism in a time of crisis, where we should be smashing rallying cries of nationalism, not echoing them!

Neil Cafferky, Socialist Party has said that the SP have 'reservations' about NO2EU, but are uncritical and every demo the SP have shown up to since late March they have been handing out NO2EU leaflets (including at an anti-deportation demo in Manchester without any irony!) - ok so they don't want to deport European migrants, but to restrict their freedom of movement? What on earth is left-wing here?

Ironically in the North West, where the BNP stands the best chance of being elected, the NO2EU vote will do nothing more than detract from the Green vote, this infact will be the story all accross the country and it's so sad to say this against a self-proclaimed left group, but NO2EU si to the right of the Green Party. The Green party might be pissy cross-class liberals but at least the Green Party don't want to limit the right of Europeans to cross through borders and nations. I'm so glad the rest fo the british left and indeed some Socialst Party comrades have woken up to realise what a thoroughly nationalist campaign they've put their names to.

Of course I don't appluad anyone voting Green, i'm an anarchist in fact, I wouldn't aplaud voting anyone, but any alternative to the BNP, Labour or any other anti-working class parties must be in the form of real class politics. How can NO2EU persuade people not to vote Green if the only policy difference of any significant note is that NO2EU resorts to chauvenism and something little short of an anti-immigration rant!

And lets have a breif skim of other policies:
- The platform opposes “EU directives that privatise our public services", but say nothing of domestic privitisation of servies such as our Royal Mail, Private Finance Initiative in our hospitals etc
- They say nothing about the actual working class, where is their opposition to capialism? Where is their opposition to the anti-Union laws that impede our ability to organise?
- They oppose "EU Militarism" but say nothing of troops home now, nothing about the decimation of Iraq, Afghanistan

We owe it to our class to link all these struggles together - the weapon with which we must do so is anti-capitalism! We can't hide that we oppose capitalism, nto for the sake of getting a few votes taken away from natioanlists. And we certainly shouldn't pursue elections under the guise of being a macho-nationalist, with vauge internationalist sentiments added as an afterthought to keep genuine leftists on board.

Opposition to the freedom of movement throughout the EU for all EU citizens? What?!?!

[YSR]

I'm not a Brit but last night I read a pamphlet called Bash the Fash: Antifascist Recollections 1984-1993 published by the Kate Sharpley Library. The author's perspective was that if you don't physically make life difficult for fascists to organize on the streets, a "no platform" policy, they will continue to grow. I agree. Simply spouting rhetoric at them isn't going to stop them. And its certainly not going to stop their recruitment of young proletarians, a group we should be focusing on as much as possible.

The author has some choice words about Labour, the SWP and other "professional radicals" and their absolutely lack of usefulness in the 80s of doing anything that actually hurt the National Front and the BNP.

[robbo203]

I don't want to derail the thread with such nonsense, but if you're trying to make any point out of this you won't. There maybe was a time where voting labour was an acceptable left position, but politics is certainly not a constant.


So it was OK to vote labour back then in the 1980s but now its not OK according to the SWP. How fascinating. Just what has changed apart from the egg sliding down your face, that is?

[MilitantAnarchist]

Whoever you vote for the government gets in, they're all the same, they all just tinker about with the laws a little bit here and there. Its taken Labour 11years to do what took the Tories 3years. But the BNP are a big threat and should by no meens be underestimaded. In the local elections round here (Leicestershire) BNP was THIRD! Third is still not first, but fuck me its a leap forward from none existant 15years ago. They are doing much more then the NF did, and its just because they are playing on the insecurity after 9/11 and July 7th ext...

[Hoxhaist]

Dont vote for BNP or Labour, organize and vote for a real revolutionary party

[MilitantAnarchist]

How can you vote in a revolution?
Voteing has never changed a thing and it never will, its not the party's thats the problem its the whole fucking system!

[robbo203]

How can you vote in a revolution?
Voteing has never changed a thing and it never will, its not the party's thats the problem its the whole fucking system!

Its not voting per se that changes anything ; its the consciousness behind the vote that matters. You cannot have socialism without a mjaority wanting and understanding it. Voting does have that advantage - as an indicator of the extent of socialist consciosness

[teenagebricks]

You can't win, MilitantAnarchist is right, putting all the blame on parties is just ignorance. Voting is a pain for people like myself who don't necessarily agree with or align themselves with organisations who participate in elections, but on the other hand I don't want fash on my council.

[Patchd]

I'm interested as to whether anyone supporting the NO2EU campaign can come back with a counter argument against h0m0revolutionary's last post. I'd like to hear their defence for this, just out of curiosity. :D

[teenagebricks]

By the sounds of it NO2EU are just a socialist UKIP.

[Saorsa]

I don't see how the SWP and the SP can justify giving electoral support to a front group that opposes Open Borders, talks about the "social dumping" of migrant workers on Britain and opposes the free movement of workers.

http://no2eu.com/workersrights.html

To ferry workers across Europe to carry out jobs that local workers can be trained to perform is an environmental, economic and social nonsense.

If ‘food-miles’ represent an unacceptably large carbon footprint, then ‘labour-miles’ and shunting human beings around Europe in the pursuit of profit is even more damaging.

Still, this isn't much different to the SWP backing Galloway with his opposition to abortion.

[rednordman]

Im getting the dreadfull impression that its a case of too little too late. In reality the labour party only has itself to blame here. Shame that we are the ones who are going to suffer.

[h0m0revolutionary]

By the sounds of it NO2EU are just a socialist UKIP.

:laugh: Lol just about =p