Jesus was the first Socialist!!!!

[CheFighter777]

What many don't realize is that Jesus was the first socialist, as were his early followers.

Here's proof:

Acts 4:32-32 Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. 33 With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. 34 There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. 35 They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

What you see today around the world is false Christianity, because Christianity in its heart is socialist!!!!

[mykittyhasaboner]

Who cares.

[Pirate Utopian]

In it's heart it's dogmatic nonsense.
The bible also says lots of shit that's homophobic, sexist and racist.

And Jesus didnt exist.

[Kassad]

Christianity still preaches submission to 'God' or an omnipotent deity. That means that Christ's followers must reject scientific observation, in favor of a surrealist and undocumented faith based on something no one can properly observe through the use of the five senses. At its core, theology is blind submission; the equivalent of submitting to any other authority figure, such as a president or ruler. Christianity and religious dogma are abhorrent and counterproductive to everything revolutionary emancipation and class struggle stand for.

[Tommy Oakes]

Who cares.I'd say a good amount of westerners care.

[CheFighter777]

Christianity and religious dogma are abhorrent and counterproductive to everything revolutionary emancipation and class struggle stand for.

True, but in its pure, early form, it was the opposite.

[Bitter Ashes]

Sounds pretty reasonable to me until the clergy ruin it

[Pirate Utopian]

True, but in its pure, early form, it was the opposite.
You mean religion once wasnt about putting faith in something you cant prove?
News to me.

[mykittyhasaboner]

I'd say a good amount of westerners care.
No, all those "westerners" whom happen to be christian have been conditioned by fear to submit to god, and don't care at all about christianity some how being described as socialist.

Whats the point of socialism if life is just about doing everything for god?

[Kassad]

True, but in its pure, early form, it was the opposite.

Yeah. Back then, they just beat women, stoned homosexuals and killed heretics. It was a better time.

[CheFighter777]

I'd say a good amount of westerners care.

And that is the main problem, and they have been my biggest enemies, as they see me as a leftist, communist, revolutionary that needs to be hanged.

Even when I prove to them from scripture that show socialism, they flat out ignor it, and reject it.

[CheFighter777]

Yeah. Back then, they just beat women, stoned homosexuals and killed heretics. It was a better time.

The Jews did do this, but when Jesus came, he rejected doing all that, and even said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!" when the women was caught in adultery.

I guarantee you that if Jesus was on earth physically right now, he'd condemn 95% of the Christianity you see all around you!!!

[Pirate Utopian]

"He who is without sin cast the first stone!" when the women was caught in adultery.
He did!? Well fuck me. What a revolutionary!
What does this even mean?

Seems to like he's saying, she cheated (threw the first stone) became sinful then she needs to get her pelted with stones.

[Bitter Ashes]

The Jews did do this, but when Jesus came, he rejected doing all that, and even said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!" when the women was caught in adultery.

I guarantee you that if Jesus was on earth physically right now, he'd condemn 95% of the Christianity you see all around you!!!
Yeah. The Church really has manipulated those Christians. If they were actualy following what Jesus is reported to have said then I'd have a lot more respect for them. Unfortuantly, the majority seem more intrested in what The Church (tm) has to tell them

[Bitter Ashes]

He did!? Well fuck me. What a revolutionary!
What does this even mean?

Seems to like he's saying, she cheated (threw the first stone) became sinful then she needs to get her pelted with stones.
Actualy, he was saying that nobody should be throwing any stones because they've all sinned at some point. Therefore, stoning the woman would make them hypocrites and he condemned it. Lol. I never thought I'd see the day I was sticking up for a fictional character! :P

[CheFighter777]

Lol. I never thought I'd see the day I was sticking up for a fictional character! :P

Now that is pretty funny, that this fictional characters teachings were soo deep, that it cause even rich men, to give up what they had, sell it, and give the money to the apostles who then gave it to the poor in need.

If only we had more of these today!!!!! :)

[Vendetta]

Jesus supported slavery.

No thanks.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Jesus wasn't a socialist for the same reason he wasn't a facist - because neither of those ideologies existed at the time he allegedly existed.

[CheFighter777]

Jesus supported slavery.

No thanks.

Really? Show me where he said this???????

[CheFighter777]

Jesus wasn't a socialist for the same reason he wasn't a facist - because neither of those ideologies existed at the time he allegedly existed.

Who you think invented Socialism, Jesus Christ.

Did you not read the quote from Scripture I should you on my very first post???????

[Vendetta]

Really? Show me where he said this???????

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you.
You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property.
You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."
– Leviticus 25.44

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." - Luke 12.47

Very socialist.

[Pirate Utopian]

Really? Show me where he said this???????
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

[LOLseph Stalin]

Who you think invented Socialism, Jesus Christ.

Did you not read the quote from Scripture I should you on my very first post???????

I just thought I would point out that Jesus didn't invent Socialism. The general ideas of it existed among Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, even earlier than Jesus!

[Vendetta]

http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

That too.;)

[CheFighter777]

"And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." - Luke 12.47

Very socialist.

This verse is Jesus talking about what was going to happen to him, beaten with the whip when he was taken to be hung on the cross. Has absolutely nothing to do with slavery, but everything to do with the kind of punishment he would endure upon his death.

The other verse you quoted was Old Testament given to Moses. Jesus brought a new way to live. Old Testament taught eye for eye, tooth for tooth, Jesus taught to turn the cheek. Complete opposite.

[Brother No. 1]

How did Jesus Invet Socialism? Socialism or its idea has existed long before him. by greeks,romans,ect. I dont know if Jesus existed or not but he didnt create Socialism. Its like saying "god" created humans.

[CheFighter777]

But, there are other versus, which Jesus DID NOT say, but it was the Apostles who wrote them that does talk about Slavery. This I do acknowledge, and honestly, those are probably the only versus in the New Testament that I'm against.

Jesus did not live long enough to address all the issues of his time, because the ones he did address of Jewish society got him killed!!!!

[LOLseph Stalin]

How did Jesus Invet Socialism? Socialism or its idea has existed long before him. by greeks,romans,ect. I dont know if Jesus existed or not but he didnt create Socialism. Its like saying "god" created humans.

I just said this above. ;)

[Brother No. 1]

Well then I guess 2 great minds think alike eh comrade. Still Jeuse, if he existsed, didnt create Socialism. He may have been a Socialist if you look at it a ceratin way but he didnt creat the system. A system can be as old as humans but given a name and a purpose by a humans. For example some native american tribes worked together and shared the working from it. Females were given rights and were equal to men to be the tribe leader. the tribe councile would vote on who should be the leader and why should they be the leader. But can you explain how you think Jeuse created Socialism?

[Vendetta]

But, there are other versus, which Jesus DID NOT say, but it was the Apostles who wrote them that does talk about Slavery.

I don't think Jesus wrote anything in the bible.

Bit buzzed, but I don't think I'm wrong.

[Brother No. 1]

The Preists wrote in the so called "holy bible" and said "The great jeuse has said these words." Thus Christains believe in the bible for they think their "savior" wrote in the simple book.

[CheFighter777]

Well then I guess 2 great minds think alike eh comrade. Still Jeuse, if he existsed, didnt create Socialism. He may have been a Socialist if you look at it a ceratin way but he didnt creat the system. A system can be as old as humans but given a name and a purpose by a humans. For example some native american tribes worked together and shared the working from it. Females were given rights and were equal to men to be the tribe leader. the tribe councile would vote on who should be the leader and why should they be the leader. But can you explain how you think Jeuse created Socialism?

I only said that he created socialism in the sense that its one of the oldest recorded models of communal living. But, you right in what you said.

The point of me starting this thread can also be used as model to fight Capitalist, who claim to follow Jesus, yet flat out reject the model of socialism embraced by Jesus early followers.

Show them that verse in Acts, and watch their jaws drop in disbelief. 85% of Christian have no real clue to what the bible teaches and only go by what their Pastors tell them as blind sheep.

In the thousands of people I've meet who claim to be Christians, only a handful have even read the whole Bible.

[mikelepore]

Another problem with Jesus is that obviously someone is going to be performing the labor to produce the food, but it's not going to be his followers. They will expect others to feed them. This isn't a reasonable economic plan for general use. This isn't socialism, but the hippie dropout movement.

Copying Matthew 6:25-34 from the New International Version ...

25 Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? 28 And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

[CheFighter777]

I don't think Jesus wrote anything in the bible.

Bit buzzed, but I don't think I'm wrong.

You 100% correct.

His apostles wrote down what Jesus said and did. The first four books of the New Testament, "The Gospels", are four sometimes different accounts on what when on in Jesus life.

Four, real life Testimonies.

[Decolonize The Left]

You 100% correct.

His apostles wrote down what Jesus said and did. The first four books of the New Testament, "The Gospels", are four sometimes different accounts on what when on in Jesus life.

Four, real life Testimonies.

Not quite. They weren't written during the time that Jesus allegedly lived... and hence weren't eye-witness testimonies. Furthermore, given that eye-witness testimonies are perhaps some of the most unreliable, when you consider that the Bible was constructed from word-of-mouth after supposed eye-witness testimonies, it's tough to call it a testimony at all....

- August

[CheFighter777]

Not quite. They weren't written during the time that Jesus allegedly lived... and hence weren't eye-witness testimonies. Furthermore, given that eye-witness testimonies are perhaps some of the most unreliable, when you consider that the Bible was constructed from word-of-mouth after supposed eye-witness testimonies, it's tough to call it a testimony at all....

- August

Sure, that is the argument that atheists, and Muslims have been saying for ages!!!

[LOLseph Stalin]

Sure, that is the argument that atheists, and Muslims have been saying for ages!!!

It's simply more believable to say that the Bible was compiled by several different people over years rather than by god himself.

[Vendetta]

Sure, that is the argument that atheists, and Muslims have been saying for ages!!!

Have you considered they might be right?

[Brother No. 1]

The bible= a book created by people teling lies and false hope.
Conculsion:The bible isnt holy and wasnt written by god. Was only written by some humans who wanted power and control over the masses. They got the ones that believed them. the Bible is the same as the Koran and other "holy" books. Just created by people with a strange understanding that there was a Invisable man in the sky who sends us to a bad place if we do wrong but he still loves us. This invisable man calls us sinful,bad, and evil yet Still loves us. It seems strange for soemone to love another after telling them their sinful,evil, and wrong.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Polish Soviet, religion is hypocritical. Not only in the ways you've mentioned either.

[Brother No. 1]

Religion is Hypocritical. I was just explaining that with what I was saying.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Who you think invented Socialism, Jesus Christ.

No mention of Jesus Christ here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Origins).


Did you not read the quote from Scripture I should you on my very first post???????

Communalism =/= socialism.

[StalinFanboy]

The other verse you quoted was Old Testament given to Moses. Jesus brought a new way to live. Old Testament taught eye for eye, tooth for tooth, Jesus taught to turn the cheek. Complete opposite.

Maybe so, but it was still dumb.

By the way, his teachings may be in the First Testament, but Christians follow the ENTIRE Bible.

[Revy]

"The New Testament is not as bad" is a tired old myth. What does Jesus think of the Old Testament anyway?

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law (Torah), or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:17

There are lots of passages, in the New Testament, said by Jesus and others, which have been used to support cruel injustices, prejudice and discrimination.

Need I mention the insanity that is the Book of Revelation? Billions being killed in Armageddon?

[Hit The North]

This thread belongs in Religion. Moved.

[Jazzratt]

Render unto Caesar and fuck off. Also the first socialists were real.

One of the wonders about the writings of the alleged apostles is that one can read whatever the fuck one wants into them. Jesus was socialist? Yep! Jesus was gay? Sure! Jesus was white? Certainly! Jesus hates fags? Of course! Quite why anyone would base their day to day lives, much less their political allegiance on such a vague and malleable bunch of bollocks is quite beyond me.

[Dean]

Jesus was a terrorist under a police state.

[NecroCommie]

I am a hardcore atheist, and condemn christianity and organized religion completely. Even so, I dare claim that anyone who says Jesus (imaginary or not) was anything else than a leftist is out of his/her mind!

I dont care what other parts of christianity teaches, but Jesus basically just wished complete equality and justice. Sure he believed in god, but then who didn't at that time? Sure he did not understand class struggle, but then again class struggle intensified only at the 19th century.

Biggest problem we communists should have with the character of Jesus is his pacifism.

People can judge the Gospels all they like, but when viewed against the surroundings they were born in, Jesus was(?) a swell guy. For modern day they are a poor guide though.

[Kassad]

The people who claim that Jesus was a socialist or some sort of supporter for the rational planning of society's resources use the same arguments that people claiming Hitler was a socialist use. Socialists are rational thinkers who resist and reject the political and monetary hierarchy that capitalism creates. One of the core aspects of socialism is the rejection of total authority. Once you accept authority, you embrace a form of social hierarchy. Jesus Christ (though I think Alice in Wonderland has more primary sources for its existence) preached common prosperity among the people; where the homeless, the sick and the disenfranchised would live in luxury with the bourgeos elite in society. Regardless, this ideology is thinly veiled by the acceptance of 'God,' which is seen as an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient deity. God is all-powerful and all-knowing, thus we must embrace him and his teachings if we ever seek to get into Heaven. This should strike you as odd already, as what Jesus taught people to do was embrace authority. He may, like us, have said that we must reject the political and social hierarchy of society, but he would, in the same sentence, tell us to embrace the spiritual hierarchy of God, the Holy Spirit and their kingdom.

This proves with no middle ground that Jesus totally contradicted himself, as embracing authority is abhorrent to revolutionary struggle and the emancipation of the worker.

[Chapter 24]

The Jews did do this, but when Jesus came, he rejected doing all that, and even said, "He who is without sin cast the first stone!" when the women was caught in adultery.

I guarantee you that if Jesus was on earth physically right now, he'd condemn 95% of the Christianity you see all around you!!!

Maybe you could fucking stop referring to "the Jews" as some homogenous entity that all hold the same beliefs and act the same way - and on top of that perhaps quit making excuses for Christianity by labeling modern-day Christians as being "fake" Christians.
Wait, actually, the No True Scotsman fallacy is actually pretty familiar to a lot of Christians. Never mind.

[Hoxhaist]

Religion in general is SO far removed from any philosophy remotely related to Socialism, Communism, or Anarchism. Instead of trying to reinvent Jesus as a Socialist (being the first or not doesnt matter, it isnt some kind of race), just admit that social vanguadism wasnt Jesus' mission. His mission was totally rooted in idealism not scientific socialism. As a communist, I dont really care what the Bible, Koran, Buddha, Dalai Lama, or any other religious figure has to say on socialism or vanguardism. Their task and role is to comment on a spiritual afterlife that has no bearing on the struggle for workers' progress in this world. Some communists are believers, some arent; some fascists are believers, some arent. As long as religion stays out of the way of progress it is harmless and its just what Marx said, "the sigh of the oppressed masses." If God exists then he would support the Communist hope for the best possible life on this earth, if He doesnt then we are doomed. If He doesnt even exist, then our hope for progress is the only hope of the human race. In the revolutionary struggle it doesnt matter what someone believes about something that really has no bearing on revolution, so comrades, this debate is really too sectarian to try to force beliefs in a sphere of thought that has no real bearing on scientific socialism. Whether Jesus was a Socialist or not doesnt matter because his teachings have nothing to do with Socialism.

[CheFighter777]

Jesus said:

Luke4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.

Don't socialist want this????????????

[Pirate Utopian]

Damn it, get it through your mind that most of us here are atheist and we dont care about what your fairytale godbook says.

We dont want no damn spirit of any lord to proclaim shit, what the hell do we care about the year 19?
We gotta do this ourselves, aint no god over us.

[CheFighter777]

Damn it, get it through your mind that most of us here are atheist and we dont care about what your fairytale godbook says.

We dont want no damn spirit of any lord to proclaim shit, what the hell do we care about the year 19?
We gotta do this ourselves, aint no god over us.

Thats the problem. Maybe you can't do it by yourselves!!!

Name one 100% accomplished socialist state in the world, that is successful?

[Brother No. 1]

(Quote)Name one 100% accomplished socialist state in the world, that is successful?
(Quote)


How is this invisable man in the freaking sky going to help us to create a Socialist state? I'm atheist and can accept other peoples oppions but you keep preaching about your god and jesus and I really dont give a damn for either. What has god done for me and for my dieing friend who has a brain tumor?

But in anycase I dont how your Religion,your god, you "savoir" can possible help us since god doesnt exist and jesus is a fair tail. I'd rather believe in the eastern bunny then jesue.

[commyrebel]

Thats not true because the fact is humans when first developing civilization were socialist in nature

[Kassad]

Thats the problem. Maybe you can't do it by yourselves!!!

Name one 100% accomplished socialist state in the world, that is successful?

Name one capitalist state that is 100% successful. Name any state that is 100% infallible in its economic production and social welfare. There are none. Obviously, you've shown us that the working class and the emancipation of the proletariat is secondary to religious enlightenment and submission to God. As I've said and you've ignored quite conveniently multiple times, you are rejecting physical slavery in favor of spiritual and religious shackles. It's an affront to everything revolutionary socialism stands for.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Even when I was a religious utopian socialist in high school, I knew that the historical Jesus and his followers weren't pioneers. Try reading the accounts of the "Late Prophets" of the Bible (before the Babylonian exile).

[Brother No. 1]

Please comrade give up your Religious shackles its for the best. I mean really if you believe in "god" then tell me when has god ever helped you? when has he ever helped you in your time of need? when has he helped Humanity in its time of need? answer: he hasnt and he never well. Why? because he Doesnt exist. Hes a fairy tail. A myth, a legend, a folk taie, anything you want to call it he doesnt exist.

[Pirate Utopian]

Thats the problem. Maybe you can't do it by yourselves!!!

Name one 100% accomplished socialist state in the world, that is successful?
Name one 100% accomplished theocracy in the world, that is successful?

I mean how close to god can you get?

[Pogue]

Who cares.

I love you for this.

[Bud Struggle]

Name one 100% accomplished theocracy in the world, that is successful?

I mean how close to god can you get?

Islam has a billion ardent followers. They will die for their faith. Socialism is slipping away into Capitalism by the second from Communist China as it did from Russia.

If Capitalism and Communism want to join together they MAY have a chance at beating Allah.

Those bastards want to take over the world--and they unlike Communism--have the means and the people.

[Brother No. 1]

(Quote)Communist China (Quote)

Oh the Irony. didnt you hear that Socialist China died in the 1970's and that no communist goverment has ever been formed?



(quote)Islam has a billion ardent followers. They will die for their faith.(quote)

Maybe its because their forced to obey 'allah" and now take it as a blessing to say 'praise to be allah" every day for 5 times of that day. Key word is its been forced on them for centuries and now theive gotten used to it.

[Bud Struggle]

Maybe its because their forced to obey 'allah" and now take it as a blessing to say 'praise to be allah" every day for 5 times of that day. Key word is its been forced on them for centuries and now theive gotten used to it.

Indeed thay have!

And now Islam (of the feudal sort) is the real enemy of world Communism--not Capitalism.

What's your answer to them?

[Brother No. 1]

Islam is just like christainity. Same invisable man but different understanding. I could care less about the Religious people and what they think of me personaly.

[Bitter Ashes]

Indeed thay have!

And now Islam (of the feudal sort) is the real enemy of world Communism--not Capitalism.

What's your answer to them?
I'd say that it's well spotted that you see theocracy as a threat TomK. That said though, it cant be used to undermine the accountability of capitalism for creating those theocratic societies and continuing to support them. Both capitalism and theocracy are equaly dangerous, although in slightly different ways.

The best hope for abolishing theocracy is through a unified workers' collective. Radicalised Islam will have it's time to be challenged, dont worry about that, but first the workers of the world who are not under theocratic rule need to stand together before they can stand against the clerics and shine a beacon of hope to the decieved workers in these places.

[bleh]

Islam has a billion ardent followers. They will die for their faith.

piss off you twat


but first the workers of the world who are not under theocratic rule need to stand together before they can stand against the clerics and shine a beacon of hope to the decieved workers in these places.

white people have a bad track record on providing "beacon[s] of hope" to the intellectually inferior races of the world

[Pirate Utopian]

Intellectually inferior races?.... I'm just gonna go click report...

[Brother No. 1]

intellectually inferior races


Um...that is just..wrong in so many ways.

[CheFighter777]

No mention of Jesus Christ here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Origins).



Communalism =/= socialism.

Ahh, I think I need to update that. There is a movement growing in the USA that does believe Jesus is socialist which I'm a part of.


No, Jesus is not a socialist
A group of self-described "progressive" Christian evangelicals calling themselves "Red Letter Christians," and led by the left-oriented Sojourners magazine and left-oriented religious pundits like Jim Wallis and Tony Campolo, has recently emerged in the body politic. These self-proclaimed "progressives" have been making a lot of noise recently complaining about the ties that other Christian evangelicals have long held with the conservative movement in the United States, including the conservative movement in the Republican Party.

One policy under attack by these "progressives" is the conservative effort to "cut programs to the poor." They say that such a policy goes against Jesus Christ's commands in chapter 24 of the book of Matthew to feed those who are hungry.
These "Red Letter Christians" are making a lot of noise, but they are just a bunch of clanging cymbals – and the love that they claim to spout has no truth in it whatsoever.

What these misguided religious zealots conveniently fail to note is that nowhere in the New Testament or the other books of the Bible do Jesus Christ, His apostles, God the Father, the Holy Spirit, Moses or the Hebrew prophets command the government to take money from its citizens and transfer it to poor people. In fact, the Bible says just the opposite.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52402
Render unto Caesar and #$$% off. Also the first socialists were real.How do socialist fund their social programs???? TAXES, thats why Right-Wing Capitalist HATE US. So, Jesus supported the idea of paying taxes, because he knew socialist would rise up in the future to better the world!!!! :) I say tax the crap out of the rich!!!!!!

[Jazzratt]

Indeed thay have!

And now Islam (of the feudal sort) is the real enemy of world Communism--not Capitalism.

What's your answer to them?

See this is the problem with the "make it up as you go along" approach you have to politics, you come up with questions about figments of your addled imagination. While theocracy is part of the opposition to communism identifying it as the enemy (especially as opposed to capitalism) is utterly moronic. Islam isn't, at the end of the day, the reason that the worker's do not control the means of production. Making massive questions out of side-issues is part of the modern capitalist agenda, the sideshows that stop us from seeing the whole fucking three ring circus.


piss off you twat

white people have a bad track record on providing "beacon[s] of hope" to the intellectually inferior races of the world

Yeah, the "intellectually inferior races" thing? Not cool. In fact I suggest you "piss off[,] you twat".

Edit. May as well reply to moron777:


How do socialist fund their social programs???? TAXES, thats why Right-Wing Capitalist HATE US. So, Jesus supported the idea of paying taxes, because he knew socialist would rise up in the future to better the world!!!! :)

1. I find it hilarious you felt the need to retroactively censor my post, that was the icing on the jebus-cake.

2. Socialists don't "raise money for social programs". Social democrats and liberals do that shit. We want to tear down the whole rotten structure and put workers in control. While there is utility in paying taxes the complete submission to capitalist governments/imperial rome (depending on your era) are not part of socialism.

3. Right-wing capitalists hate socialism because a conscious workforce is unlikely to continue being their workforce, their plaything. That's why there is so much time spent pretending that the various flavours of capitalism are different enough to warrant bothering with (as exemplified recently where Obama is presented as being far better than anything that's come before).

[Rosa Provokateur]

Christianity still preaches submission to 'God' or an omnipotent deity. That means that Christ's followers must reject scientific observation, in favor of a surrealist and undocumented faith based on something no one can properly observe through the use of the five senses. At its core, theology is blind submission; the equivalent of submitting to any other authority figure, such as a president or ruler. Christianity and religious dogma are abhorrent and counterproductive to everything revolutionary emancipation and class struggle stand for.

That's only if you go on Empiricism; if you apply empirical thought to everything then you've got to question whether or not I even exist. You cant see me, hear me, touch, taste, or smell me and yet you believe I exist even when I'm not on the forum.

Not so because with blind submission you are following without reason where-as I follow G-d based on reason and with purpose.

[Rosa Provokateur]

I just thought I would point out that Jesus didn't invent Socialism. The general ideas of it existed among Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, even earlier than Jesus!

Well he atleast practiced it; Rome occupied Israel at the time, its possible that these philosophers influenced him.

[Kassad]

That's only if you go on Empiricism; if you apply empirical thought to everything then you've got to question whether or not I even exist. You cant see me, hear me, touch, taste, or smell me and yet you believe I exist even when I'm not on the forum.

Not so because with blind submission you are following without reason where-as I follow G-d based on reason and with purpose.

But I can see that you're typing something. I see that you are presenting text to me which means that someone is there typing text. You can't follow 'God' through reason, as theology is totally unreasonable. The core of theological teachings relates to faith, which means that you are placing your faith in something. That, by definition, means that logic and reason would refute such a belief, but you believe it anyway because you are 'faithful.' I mean, I'm sorry we have to break words down into black and white here, but faith literally means believing or supporting something that is either illogical, fallible or potentially flawed.

[Rosa Provokateur]

The Preists wrote in the so called "holy bible" and said "The great jeuse has said these words." Thus Christains believe in the bible for they think their "savior" wrote in the simple book.

So simple that owning a copy will get you killed in North Korea, crazy how "insignificant" fiction can be:tongue_smilie:

[Rosa Provokateur]

But I can see that you're typing something. I see that you are presenting text to me which means that someone is there typing text. You can't follow 'God' through reason, as theology is totally unreasonable. The core of theological teachings relates to faith, which means that you are placing your faith in something. That, by definition, means that logic and reason would refute such a belief, but you believe it anyway because you are 'faithful.' I mean, I'm sorry we have to break words down into black and white here, but faith literally means believing or supporting something that is either illogical, fallible or potentially flawed.

Heres my reasoning: the Universe had a beginning and thus had to have had a beginner, cause and effect. It's too complex to say it came from nothing thus some kind of intelligent force must've been behind it.

Then theres the complexity of DNA and well... if it bleeds it leads.

[Kassad]

But wouldn't that naturally infer that 'God' or whatever deity you worship also had to have a beginning? Did God merely wake up one morning and was 'alive' in the divine sense? What did he do before he created humanity? If everything must have a beginning, where was God's beginning?

The only answer you can respond with is that God is above human time and we cannot rationally comprehend his existence and his action. The problem with this argument is that it totally forsakes human logic, for you are sacrificing your mind, your abilities of deducation and your logic and saying that something is above you; a total submission to authority.

You totally fail to grasp any kind of human development and I'm a few moments away from guessing you're a creationist, which I honestly wish we could restrict people for. A defining moment in the universe set humanity in its earliest, likely single-cell stages. The earliest humans (in that sense) adapted and were forced to rapidly evolve and change to consistently survive. That process took billions of years, but is still happening. We still adapt, physically and emotionally, to put an end to humanity's ails and consistently promote our survival. This is a logical interpretation of human development, whereas yours is not only fallacious, but it is also blind to human logic and totally submissive. This is totally contradictory to Marxist materialist obervation and interpretation, as well as the fact that you reject political and bourgeois authority, only to replace it with that of spiritual and metaphysical tyranny.

[Chapter 24]

Alright... it appears that the "Christian radicals" can't take any evidence from seperate posts alone, so how about let's put all (or at least most) of the points already made in one post and then they can attempt to refute them one by one.

1) Jesus couldn't have been a socialist anymore than Rome could have been imperialist, as neither socialism nor imperialism existed in the absence of capitalism.

2) For every "socialist" verse one finds in the Bible, one will also find 100 reactionary ones.

3) To Jesus, all humans are equal... except when it comes to worshipping an invisible figure who lives in the sky that is omnipotent and all-powerful.

4) Marx called religion an opiate for a reason. To put it very simply, if humans actually lived decent lives with their basic needs met (i.e., food, water, healthcare, housing, a safe, free enviornment, etc), their truly would be no need to put all of your faith in a magical afterlife that is free of suffering.

5) Christians are Christians. There's not a goddamned way to get out of it - if some Christians are being "un-Christian" in their actions, they are still Christians! If I gave you two bananas - one that was still slightly green but mostly yellow, the other being ripened with some brown spots - they are still two bananas. Please stop this cop-out bullshit about some Christians not "truly" being Christians.

6) There's more to socialism than paying taxes. I mean, WTF, does anyone here honestly believe that paying higher taxes in a country is a sign of socialism in practice?

[Decolonize The Left]

Heres my reasoning: the Universe had a beginning and thus had to have had a beginner, cause and effect.

No... it didn't. You are positing that it has a beginning, you have no evidence or proof for this claim.


It's too complex to say it came from nothing thus some kind of intelligent force must've been behind it.

Too complex? For what, our human minds?

You've committed two great errors in this claim:
1) Assuming that human minds can understand everything, or that we are the highest development of reason/logic/understanding, etc.. in the universe. Once again, you have no justification for these assumptions.
2) The universe did not come from "nothing." As far as I understand, it came from an infinitely small point (a singularity) with infinite density... read some physics.


Then theres the complexity of DNA and well... if it bleeds it leads.

I don't understand "if it bleeds it leads," but whatever. You're pathetic argument of "complexity" has long since been debunked and dismissed as weak attempts to cram the existence of god into the unexplained. Allow me an example:
Believer: "The stars are gods!"
Non-believer: "Well, we thought they were until we discovered they were giant balls of hydrogen."
Believer: "Oh... well... then god exists behind the stars! He made the stars!"
Non-believer: "Well, no. The stars were formed over very long periods of time by different chemicals and dust collecting in various parts of space."
Believer: "Oh... well... the god put those chemicals there!"
Non-believer: "Well, no. The chemicals came from other stars and space debris, etc..."
Believer: "Oh... well... then god put all of it into motion."
Non-believer: "Well, it's possible, but highly unlikely."

See how far god gets crammed out of the situation? Yet you still think "complexity" is 'proof.' It isn't. It's a weak attempt to stuff a totally insane and ridiculous belief system into and onto reality.

- August

[CheFighter777]

See how far god gets crammed out of the situation? Yet you still think "complexity" is 'proof.' It isn't. It's a weak attempt to stuff a totally insane and ridiculous belief system into and onto reality.

- August

You only see the USA Evangelicals believe like this, thinking the earth is only 6 thousand years old, and that dinosaurs where here 4,000 years ago. These are the Sarah Palin Right-Wing Christians.

Progressive Christians DO NOT believe like this, and use science as a means to believe more.

I believe the earth is billions of years old, but believe in delayed Creationism thoughout those years. The chronological order of the Genesis story supports the order even in which humans came last on the scene.

Dinosaurs are further proof of the earth being at least a couple billions years old.

[Pirate Utopian]

Progressive christians. lol.

Your still believing in a omnipotent creature that hasnt been proven for thousands of years. Not when they called Ra, not when they called it Jehova, not God, not Allah.

There is nothing progressive about that.

[CheFighter777]

Athiest will NEVER rule over mankind, EVER!!!! So no matter how good your social, communist, etc... agenda will be, without a belief system in a high power, the masses of 4 BILLION PLUS people of faith will NOT by it.

Best hope for the USA is Progressive Christians convincing the masses of Millions of Catholics and Evangelicals that the Right-Wing Capitalistic form of faith is anti-Jesus.

Many are leaving the right-wing circles to join the new progressives.

So whether you like it or not, you atheist will NEVER stop us!!!!!

[Pirate Utopian]

Resistance is futile! We are the RELIGIOUS!!! We crush you atheist rebels!
You will never win! :lol:

Funny shit. Bullshit though.
As society advances the dependence on religion drops.
There used to be a god for everything we couldnt explain, the more we figured out, the less gods there were and the less important they became.

But never mind the bollocks, here's the question again... How earth can you be a progressive christian if you cant even progress beyond outdated beliefsystems?

[CheFighter777]

But never mind the bollocks, here's the question again... How earth can you be a progressive christian if you cant even progress beyond outdated beliefsystems?

If I told you, you would never believe me anyways, so no use trying to tell you.

But many of us who know Jesus have had a personal experience with Christ.

Like they say, religion is the opium of the people. There is some truth to that when you truly experience Jesus.

[Pirate Utopian]

I'm not asking you why you waste your life on religion.

I'm asking what on earth makes a progressive christian.

[CheFighter777]

I'm not asking you why you waste your life on religion.

I'm asking what on earth makes a progressive christian.

Oh, basically when you view Jesus going after the poor, and caring for the poor.

Some call it the Social Gospel of Jesus, which is totally opposite of that of the Evangelical version of Christianity who only care about the rich.

[Kassad]

Pirate Utopia, you're right on the money, but I can tell you that you're wasting your time. Let's bring this whole debate down to one simple concept: religion is contradictory to logic, as it relies on faith to sustain its surrealist ideology. So, tell me this? How is faith in Jesus Christ and God any different than saying you have 'faith' in the fact that electrons don't exist?

Me: But... there's no proof or logical reasoning behind your assertion. You haven't proven to me that God is there through your abilities of deduction or the five senses, so how can you prove it?
Christian: Well, it comes down to faith. I have faith in God.

Me: But... how can you say that? Hundreds and thousands of years of research has evolved a proper model of the atom that we can now prove is made up of protons, electrons and neutrons that orbit a nucleus through a magnetic field. How can you say that electrons don't exist, especially when you don't provide me with any facts?
Skeptic: Well, I have faith that electrons do not exist.

It doesn't make a lot of sense when you paint it in black and white, does it? Your argument can be used to say anything does or does not exist, regardless of time or place. You can deny the existence of gravity or even the existence of sperm cells without justification and you rationalize it with 'faith.' At the end of the day, faith is synonymous with malinformed and illogical opinions that have no real standing in the world today. CheFighter777, your posts have shown multiple times that whenever you are backed into a corner with logic, you either say that you can't convince us that we're wrong or that it's a waste of your time. You can believe in whatever imaginary deity you choose, since your life obviously has a void that should be filled with logic and unconditional love, but is instead filled with outlandish reasoning. Regardless, your theories and the concept of Christianity, based on the existence of God and Jesus Christ, are totally unfounded when applied rationally to the scientific method and the consistent evolution of humanity's abilities of deduction.

[CheFighter777]

Regardless, your theories and the concept of Christianity, based on the existence of God and Jesus Christ, are totally unfounded when applied rationally to the scientific method and the consistent evolution of humanity's abilities of deduction.

Tell that to the 4 BILLION PLUS people of faith around the world!!!!!

[Kassad]

Okay, all I can say now is "go fuck yourself." I've given you ample opportunities to present logical arguments. Guess what? There were millions of National Socialists who supported Hitler. Does that justify their logic or actions because they had massive support? The Crusades and the Inquisition had the support of millions. Does that rationalize them? Why don't you actually address my post with logic? Has your malleable, ignorant mind forgotten how to use logic and reason after so many years of blindly submitting before the crucifix?

[F9]

Tell that to the 4 BILLION PLUS people of faith around the world!!!!!

Where MOST of them, consider your "god" as a liar, an unexisted person, or an existed moron, ask all those 4 billions what they have to say about 3 gods which are one, you know what they will say?LOOOOOL
Naiveness is a bad thing, no matter if 4 people have it. or 4 billion, you just stay and afraid of the grandpa(or wait is the son, or maybe the "holy" spirit, but but all those are one:rolleyes:) up in the sky, the next time someone kicks you, turn the other side, you know have a pc right?Then WHY THE FUCK you dont cut it in the middle to give it to the others dont have?Your home?Let people in to live who dint have a house.No?You wont do that?I know, because you are all fucking hypocrits, who say that you all "love" each other, and the only thing to do, is opress people with your "religion" get naives money, make church the biggest business around, and all this for what?For that grandpa in the air?Pshhh.Go ask all those people what they think about your religion....Then you wont like the answer, not us, we do know that people are too naive or scared to admit that there isnt an old man in the sky to control all the people, be anywhere etc.

Fuserg9:star:

[CheFighter777]

I've dealt with people like you many, many times, so its no use trying to convince you of anything.

I don't deny science, and actually like science very much. There is so much out there to explore that we don't even know yet.

I was recently watching the Discovery Channel that said some scientist believe there might be as much as 11 parallel universes.

[Kassad]

Then why are you here? If you don't want to convince us or persuade any of us to comprehend your line of thought, why are you here? Instead of spending so much time dodging the question, refusing to acknowledge logic and totally ignoring the scientific method, why don't you enlighten us? Frankly, you've said many times in the short time you've been here that there's 'no use trying to convince [us] of anything.' Well, I do apologize for shattering the sanctuary of ignorance in which you take up residence, but why don't you address the topic of faith a couple posts back and prove to us that you aren't totally devoid of logic?

[Jazzratt]

You only see the USA Evangelicals believe like this, thinking the earth is only 6 thousand years old, and that dinosaurs where here 4,000 years ago. These are the Sarah Palin Right-Wing Christians.

There is a member here that claims to be leftist and support all that bollocks (literal bible and everything). Uses the same rhetoric as you.


Progressive Christians DO NOT believe like this,

True scotsmen DO NOT put sugar on their porridge.


and use science as a means to believe more.

Every scientific discovery pushes god further out of the equation. God, in the minds of a lot of theists, seems to exist only to fill gaps in our knowledge.


I believe the earth is billions of years old, but believe in delayed Creationism thoughout those years. The chronological order of the Genesis story supports the order even in which humans came last on the scene.

Humans didn't "come last on the scene", though. You're just making shit up as you go.

[CheFighter777]

You athiest are no different than Capitalist in your quest to eliminate faith from the world, as Capitalist want to control the world.

How can you claim to be for the good of mankind in a social utopia, but yet try to destroy the faith of Billions of people.

Sounds like Anti-Humanity to me.

[Kassad]

Would you please shut the fuck up and address my posts, instead of addressing what is convenient for you?

[#FF0000]

You athiest are no different than Capitalist in your quest to eliminate faith from the world, as Capitalist want to control the world.

Capitalists own the means of production and have immense power over resources. Atheists don't believe in God. Some think that religion does more harm than good and are very passionate about science. I don't see the comparison.

Capitalists also just want profit. This isn't some comic book.


How can you claim to be for the good of mankind in a social utopia, but yet try to destroy the faith of Billions of people.

Well it's actually rather consistent if you take into consideration the fact that we believe religion is harmful to society.


Sounds like Anti-Humanity to me.

You should stop being so dramatic. Maybe go outside. Head to the store and pick up some perspective. Then maybe catch a movie. Make a day of it. It'll be fun.

[CheFighter777]

Well it's actually rather consistent if you take into consideration the fact that we believe religion is harmful to society.So whats the atheist "Final Solution" then? hmmmm Anything like Hitlers?

To burn Billions of Korans and Bibles, and imprison all Pastors, and Ministers of any sort in your quest to rid the world of religion, for your perfect little atheistic conquest of world dominance?

[bcbm]

Can I have some of whatever you're on?

[#FF0000]

So whats the atheist "Final Solution" then? hmmmm Anything like Hitlers?

To burn Billions of Korans and Bibles, and imprison all Pastors, and Ministers of any sort in your quest to rid the world of religion, for your perfect little atheistic conquest of world dominance?

no

[CheFighter777]

I have no scientific formula for you atheist as a way to prove God. And yes, it does sound illogical, and maybe even neanderthal type of thinking to believe in the great, "Sky God" Creator.

But that doesn't take away my personal experience that I've had in Jesus.

Its like using cocaine, you won't know what its like unless you try it!!!

Just a word of caution, becarefull because you might like it after first use!!!! :D

[Decolonize The Left]

Athiest will NEVER rule over mankind, EVER!!!! So no matter how good your social, communist, etc... agenda will be, without a belief system in a high power, the masses of 4 BILLION PLUS people of faith will NOT by it.

Best hope for the USA is Progressive Christians convincing the masses of Millions of Catholics and Evangelicals that the Right-Wing Capitalistic form of faith is anti-Jesus.

Many are leaving the right-wing circles to join the new progressives.

So whether you like it or not, you atheist will NEVER stop us!!!!!

When the fuck did this turn into some sort of battle for world supremacy? I thought we were debating the realities of religion...

Let's get a couple of your 'arguments' out of the way quickly, shall we?

1. A bunch of folks believe in some sort of a god, hence god exists.
Reality: Nonsense. A bunch of folks believe in a lot of things which are non-existent (example: the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, Jesus, etc...) Furthermore, the "billions" all believe in different gods, each which is said to be the sole god. Hence, you've got yourself a problem: if one of you is right, billions are wrong... then your argument (which isn't logical) falls to pieces as the numbers decrease significantly.

2. Religion is compatible with science because you are religious and watch the discovery channel.
Reality: Religion is a denial of the scientific method. The scientific method is based upon repeatable observation by any independent observer. Religion is based upon faith - belief without evidence.

3. Religion is progressive because Jesus may have said some stuff about helping poor people.
Reality: Religion is reactionary, and hence, not progressive. It is reactionary because all religions are based upon some sort of sacred text. This text is believed to be the truth, and hence cannot be altered. You can see where this is going (maybe), but I'll explain it anyway.
If the text cannot be altered, and is considered truth, all attempts to initiate change in terms of equality and freedom (i.e. to be progressive) are met with stern reaction (i.e. to be reactionary) for they contradict the text.

4. Atheists don't have a 'solution.'
Reality:In the first place, you haven't stated any problem - hence, there cannot be a solution. In the second place, if the problem is world poverty, etc... the 'atheist solution,' at least on this forum, is to empower the working class and enable said working class to change their material conditions thereby empowering themselves. Far fetched? Quite the contrary - very real. Believing that a magical man will come down from the clouds and save us all is fucking far fetched.

5. Atheists are no different than capitalists, wanting to eliminate faith.
Reality: Aside from being a terribly ignorant statement, it is simply illogical. Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Capitalism is an economic system based upon exploitation. They are totally different things... but, since you are speaking of faith, you're also just wrong. Capitalism encourages all sorts of faith: faith in the market, faith in the consumer, faith in the corporations, faith in material possessions, etc...

6. Destroying faith is bad.
Reality: Coming from a theist, this is a pretty laughable statement. But, since you made it honestly, I'll address it likewise. What is faith? It is belief without evidence. What would happen if we had faith in everything? Faith that our lights would turn on on their own? Faith that our car would start without our turning the ignition? Faith that food would appear in front of us if we prayed? Faith that dictators would simply give up? Faith that airplanes would be built without people? Faith that streets would be cleaned? Faith that global warming would simply stop regardless of our actions?
We'd all die.

Faith provides nothing but security for those who cannot confront reality. It is escapism and it is weak.

- August

[bcbm]

Its like using cocaine, you won't know what its like unless you try it!!!

Just a word of caution, becarefull because you might like it after first use!!!! :D

I've tried both and I definitely liked cocaine better.

Maybe I just need to try snorting Jesus.

[CheFighter777]

I've tried both and I definitely liked cocaine better.

Maybe I just need to try snorting Jesus.

Or you need a good injection of the Holy Spirit!!! :D

That's how I did it. Once that sucker enters your body, you'll never be the same!!!

BTW, me too, I've tried both plenty of times!!!! :ohmy:

Those white lines go way back!!!!!

[bcbm]

Can you freebase holy spirit or only inject it? I don't like injecting hard drugs.

[CheFighter777]

Can you freebase holy spirit or only inject it? I don't like injecting hard drugs.

Sorry, you can't twist this sucker around like the Evangelicals do. If you want the pure form, you need to inject this sucker!!!! :redstar2000:

[Decolonize The Left]

CheFighter777, why didn't you respond to my last post?

- August

[CheFighter777]

Faith provides nothing but security for those who cannot confront reality. It is escapism and it is weak.

- August

Faith is a tool to which people can have comfort reality.

While you sit there, hopeless, dying of cancer, the person of faith can be happy, be at peace, knowing they will be with Jesus when they die, enjoying the remaining days they have left.

There is no hope and peace for the atheist. They are scare of death when faced with the reality of it.

[Decolonize The Left]

Faith is a tool to which people can have comfort reality.

Reality is comfortable for the strong, there is no need for a tool to help.


While you sit there, hopeless, dying of cancer, the person of faith can be happy, be at peace, knowing they will be with Jesus when they die, enjoying the remaining days they have left.

1. This person "can" be happy, but is not guaranteed happiness.
2. This person "knows" nothing.
3. This person cannot "be with Jesus" when they die, for "they" will be dead and hence unable to be with anyone.
4. Enjoyment is not dependent upon faith.


There is no hope and peace for the atheist. They are scare of death when faced with the reality of it.

I am an atheist, and I am not scared of death or reality. Fear has certain characteristics which arise in a fearful person's behavior. One of these characteristics is irrational and illogical thinking - a cornerstone of religion.

It is religion which is rooted in fear - fear of death. After all, if one wasn't afraid of death, why would one need to make up stories about an afterlife?

- August

[Brother No. 1]

[quoteThere is no hope and peace for the atheist.[/quote]

Strange for I have peace and hope for things and I'm atheist.
Just because I dont believe in your Religion and your "god" doesnt mean I can have hope and peace.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Faith is a tool to which people can have comfort reality.

While you sit there, hopeless, dying of cancer, the person of faith can be happy, be at peace, knowing they will be with Jesus when they die, enjoying the remaining days they have left.

It's a false comfort because it's utterly without evidence. There are real sources of comfort, like friends and family.


There is no hope and peace for the atheist. They are scare of death when faced with the reality of it.

Why should I be scared of death?

[CheFighter777]

I am an atheist, and I am not scared of death or reality. Fear has certain characteristics which arise in a fearful person's behavior. One of these characteristics is irrational and illogical thinking - a cornerstone of religion.

It is religion which is rooted in fear - fear of death. After all, if one wasn't afraid of death, why would one need to make up stories about an afterlife?

- August

You say this now, but just wait till the time comes when your confronted with death. Many people have deathbed conversions.

[CheFighter777]

Strange for I have peace and hope for things and I'm atheist.
Just because I dont believe in your Religion and your "god" doesnt mean I can have hope and peace.

I didn't mean in general, but upon being confronted with death, such as thru sickness.


Why should I be scared of death? You shouldn't, but most people are.

[Decolonize The Left]

You say this now, but just wait till the time comes when your confronted with death. Many people have deathbed conversions.

I've been confronted with death - we all have. It's a part of life.

Death isn't scary. What's scary is somebody telling you that some magical being is waiting to judge you for every single action you've ever done - especially when this person has no evidence or proof for their mystical claims.

I guess death is scary to someone who is afraid of life. And I guess someone who is afraid of life needs to believe in an afterlife. But that seems awful weak to me...

- August

[Brother No. 1]

Death is just another part of life. I've face it,Agust faced it,hell maybe we have all faced it at one time or another. Its no scary but whats scary is a
'mystical being" telling you that your always sinful and wrong..yet loves you.
Last time I checked Hate doesnt = love. Also "god" is basicly used by the Capitalists as another way to control the masses. Organized Religion is another Capitalist front and Religion is one of the tools Capitalists use to control the innocent people of the world and turn them into Extremists,Fanatics,ect. Religion has made humanity attack its self for idiotic reasons. such as:who is the more faithful severant of "god.",which Religion is better,who should control the "holy land", and so on. I havent seen what Religion has done to humanity that has good effects.

[Dr Mindbender]

I'm looking forward to reading a thread charting the progressive merits of muhammed and buddha.

[CheFighter777]

Also "god" is basicly used by the Capitalists as another way to control the masses. Organized Religion is another Capitalist front and Religion is one of the tools Capitalists use to control the innocent people of the world and turn them into Extremists,Fanatics,ect.

I agree with you 100% on this statement, which is what I try to fight when dealing with Right-Wing Christians.

[CheFighter777]

I'm looking forward to reading a thread charting the progressive merits of muhammed and buddha.

Now with Mohammad, you get like 100 virgins or something like that when you die in Jihad!!!

With Buddha, you get to turn into a grasshopper!! :D

[CheFighter777]

Now how cool is this!!!!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz83qFFwJP4/RoAA-AElcRI/AAAAAAAABJE/7ZmRbCzAFKU/s400/buddy.jpg

[Decolonize The Left]

Now how cool is this!!!!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz83qFFwJP4/RoAA-AElcRI/AAAAAAAABJE/7ZmRbCzAFKU/s400/buddy.jpg

It's revolting.

Aside from it's disgusting Disney-like appearance, I have a hard time believing that Jesus, a man who preached asceticism, would support the commercialization of his message... don't you?

- August

[Pirate Utopian]

Now how cool is this!!!!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz83qFFwJP4/RoAA-AElcRI/AAAAAAAABJE/7ZmRbCzAFKU/s400/buddy.jpg
To be honest I never liked Dogma.
Think it's one Kevin Smith's lesser movies.

[mykittyhasaboner]

To be fair I think Buddy Christ is hilarious, and I consider it a fine mockery of christianity.

[CheFighter777]

I think I figured it out. Its you white folks that are athiest who think your superior to all others.

But us Latino's, will always have faith, and be leftist!!!!!!!

...and Latino America will always believe in Cristo el libertador!!!!!!

Viva La Revolution papa siempre!!!!!

http://cristianos.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/1475-10-27-08-chavez.jpg

[Kassad]

Congratulations. You're a racist.

[#FF0000]

CheFighter, what do you think of homosexuals? I don't know if it was discussed yet...

[mykittyhasaboner]

Congratulations. You're a racist.

As well as an elitist christian.

[CheFighter777]

CheFighter, what do you think of homosexuals? I don't know if it was discussed yet...

They deserve equal rights just as anybody else.

As Jesus himself said, "He who is without no sin cast the first stone!"

[CheFighter777]

As well as an elitist christian.

Didn't know elitist fought for the poor!!! :confused:

[Brother No. 1]

Didn't know elitist fought for the poor!!!

.... The Elite never fought for the poor.

[LOLseph Stalin]

"He who is without no sin cast the first stone!"

By the Christian definition there definitely wouldn't be very many stones thrown since everybody would have sinned in some way. :) Nobody is absolutely "pure".

[Brother No. 1]

"He who is without no sin cast the first stone!"

Yet Religious and Capitalists cast the first stones always. Besides the word "sin" means you have done something 'un-holy" or "evil." Yet the Religious leader always say their "un-sinful" or "good." Capitalists,Elite,Religious leaders,ect they always cast the first stones so this quote isnt really required. Besides Christainity has done countless "sins" as you would call them. Remember your "holy Crusade."

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I think I figured it out. Its you white folks that are athiest who think your superior to all others.

My atheism has nothing to do with my skin colour. I don't think in terms of race.

And religion is equal-opportunity mind-rot. Whether it's white Christians in America shooting doctors or black Christians in Africa setting fire to children (for being "witches"), the effects of letting faith guide ones actions are overwhelmingly negative.


But us Latino's, will always have faith, and be leftist!!!!!!!Latinos should take this as a grave insult. Apparently you're all mindless clones.

[Bright Banana Beard]

Latinos should take this as a grave insult. Apparently you're all mindless clones.

Shush, I take it as insult. Apparently, you are a mindless creature. :)

[Bitter Ashes]

Okay. I think everyone needs to step back and take five and let thier hackles calm down for a moment. I've had a quick skim through the recent posts and to be honest, I think both sides have said some stuff that's based a lot on assumption and a distinct lack of tollerance. Bieng an atheist does not mean you're automaticly in terror at the thought of your own end and bieng Latino does not automaticly mean you believe in a Flying Spagetti Monster, likewise, bieng Christian does not automaticly make you homophobic, or creationist. Both of those statements were made based on assumptions and hopefully, everyone can see that this sort of attitude isnt actualy getting us anywhere.

My thoughts on the matter is all about secularism. I dont like religion, fine. That's my personal opinion. There's plenty of personal opinions that say that they do like religion too. Which is right? Well, unless the clouds part and God/Jenova/ Allah/whatever deciedes upon a press conferance then there'll always be doubt on either side and most likely there'd be a debate a few thousand years down the line whether that actualy happened too.

So, what it boils down to is whether you consider thought crime to be something to be concerned about or not. Well, surely not. If somebody commits a crime under the influence of narcotics then it's not the fault of the drugs, but the individual who committed the crime. You cant just shirk responsibility for an attack by saying "I was drunk" any more than Fred Phelps can shirk responsibility for saying "I thought I was doing what God wanted". You cant "convert" the world to atheism overnight, but as pointed out, theism will probably die out when more tangible solutions become more available to them. So, it begs the question, why all the closed doors to individuals who hold religious beliefs right now? Because you disagree with thier personal opinion, or because you have a list of people who shirked the responsibility for thier own actions and used religion as an excuse to commit crimes? We wouldnt shut a door in the face of somebody who drinks, or takes drugs, so why somebody under the influence of theism?

If this guy wants to go and be a revolutary in his own way and has ways that Christians (a substantial part of the working class) can move towards Communism, then that's great! You're not going to get anywhere without the Christians on your side bieng honest and if you want to wait another few generations in the gamble that atheism might become the state religion of all these places first then I think you're bieng a bit silly.

*holds out her arms*
Everyone hug now!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Okay. I think everyone needs to step back and take five and let thier hackles calm down for a moment. I've had a quick skim through the recent posts and to be honest, I think both sides have said some stuff that's based a lot on assumption and a distinct lack of tollerance. Bieng an atheist does not mean you're automaticly in terror at the thought of your own end and bieng Latino does not automaticly mean you believe in a Flying Spagetti Monster, likewise, bieng Christian does not automaticly make you homophobic, or creationist.

The facts of the matter are that the majority of atheists are not consumed by some form of existential terror, but how can you deny that religiosity is positively correlated with with forms of prejudice such as sexism, homophobia?


Both of those statements were made based on assumptions and hopefully, everyone can see that this sort of attitude isnt actualy getting us anywhere.I beg to differ.


My thoughts on the matter is all about secularism. I dont like religion, fine. That's my personal opinion. There's plenty of personal opinions that say that they do like religion too. Which is right? Well, unless the clouds part and God/Jenova/ Allah/whatever deciedes upon a press conferance then there'll always be doubt on either side and most likely there'd be a debate a few thousand years down the line whether that actualy happened too.Nonsense. There's no debate about the existance of Zeus, because everyone now realises he was just a myth.

Gods can be killed.


So, what it boils down to is whether you consider thought crime to be something to be concerned about or not. Well, surely not. If somebody commits a crime under the influence of narcotics then it's not the fault of the drugs, but the individual who committed the crime. You cant just shirk responsibility for an attack by saying "I was drunk" any more than Fred Phelps can shirk responsibility for saying "I thought I was doing what God wanted".The problem is faith itself - he (and it's almost always a he) who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

In other words, by surrendering one's critical faculties in one area (deliberately or otherwise), it negatively effects one's critical faculties in other areas also.


You cant "convert" the world to atheism overnight, but as pointed out, theism will probably die out when more tangible solutions become more available to them.It's unlikely that the world will turn atheist in my lifetime, but that doesn't mean I can't help the process along in my own small way.


So, it begs the question, why all the closed doors to individuals who hold religious beliefs right now? Because you disagree with thier personal opinion, or because you have a list of people who shirked the responsibility for thier own actions and used religion as an excuse to commit crimes? We wouldnt shut a door in the face of somebody who drinks, or takes drugs, so why somebody under the influence of theism?What's all this talk about closed doors in aid of? I see pathetic arguments being demolished, but no doors slamming.


If this guy wants to go and be a revolutary in his own way and has ways that Christians (a substantial part of the working class) can move towards Communism, then that's great!People are "moved towards" communism because they are workers first and foremost, not because they're Christian. Christianity teaches submission to authority.


You're not going to get anywhere without the Christians on your side bieng honest and if you want to wait another few generations in the gamble that atheism might become the state religion of all these places first then I think you're bieng a bit silly.Speaking of silliness, atheism can't become a "state religion" since it isn't a religion. Much like a tomato can't become a national animal.

[#FF0000]

Much like a tomato can't become a national animal.

It can if it dreams big.

[Sean]

Speaking of silliness, atheism can't become a "state religion" since it isn't a religion. Much like a tomato can't become a national animal.
Actually, the more I think about "New Atheism", by which I mean converts via Dawkins et al's religion can only be evil and must be wiped out view, the less I'm convinced of that. Its an atheism that really holds itself together as a negation of religion, and many of these new militant recruits are obsessed with conversion to atheism because of the evils of all religious belief. Its very much more like Satanism now, a nontheistic religion, what with its mock religious rights like unbaptism, denying the existence of the holy spirit on youtube etc. Hell, what with the little logical answers and refutations of arguements given by challengers to Atheism, I'm sure some even could be said to know tajweed of the proper replies to Christians and muslims! It doesn't have fully circular reasoning of course, but does exude the same kind of pressure of blind faith by basically saying that you cannot be intelligent or a good person if you are not an atheist.

While I do enjoy debate, and mocking fundies is good sport, I'm not all that bothered by superstitious people. I just don't like the organisations themselves that manipulate the people. So yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that mine is the one true atheism, and all others are infidels who will burn in-oh wait, we don't have a hell, I'll just push you fuckers under a bus instead!:D

[Bilan]

Jesus invented socialism?
No, no he didn't. A few poetic scriptures do not constitute the basis for socialism, and never will.

[Patchd]

Viva La Revolution papa siempre!!!!!

http://cristianos.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/1475-10-27-08-chavez.jpg

What has Chavez got to do with anything? He isn't a revolutionary!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Actually, the more I think about "New Atheism", by which I mean converts via Dawkins et al's religion can only be evil and must be wiped out view, the less I'm convinced of that.

Some atheists come to that conclusion, but most atheists (including "New Atheists") that I've seen either don't want to eradicate religion or don't think it's possible.


Its an atheism that really holds itself together as a negation of religion, and many of these new militant recruits are obsessed with conversion to atheism because of the evils of all religious belief."Obsessed with conversion"? How many atheist missionaries have you seen?


Its very much more like Satanism now, a nontheistic religion, what with its mock religious rights like unbaptism, denying the existence of the holy spirit on youtube etc.None of which are necessary to be an atheist. I haven't been debaptised (was never baptised in the first place), and I've never put up a YouTube video, let alone one in which I deny the holy spirit.


Hell, what with the little logical answers and refutations of arguements given by challengers to Atheism, I'm sure some even could be said to know tajweed of the proper replies to Christians and muslims!Reasoned arguments (which have to be constantly trotted out because the god-botherers hardly ever come out with new arguments) are on the same level as scriptural recitals now?


It doesn't have fully circular reasoning of course, but does exude the same kind of pressure of blind faith by basically saying that you cannot be intelligent or a good person if you are not an atheist.I've yet to meet an atheist who seriously believes this, but I suppose there are some. In any case, it doesn't make atheism a religion.

[Sean]

"Obsessed with conversion"? How many atheist missionaries have you seen?

How many unmolested threads on the topic of religion have you seen?

None of which are necessary to be an atheist. I haven't been debaptised (was never baptised in the first place), and I've never put up a YouTube video, let alone one in which I deny the holy spirit. Nothing is necessary to be an atheist, thats how we're born.

[Bitter Ashes]

"Obsessed with conversion"? How many atheist missionaries have you seen?
http://www.politics.co.uk/photo/christian-challenges-atheist-bus-advert-$7020184$300.jpg
Dont get me wrong. The Christians did it too with thier "Alpha course" stuff.

[Sean]

http://www.politics.co.uk/photo/christian-challenges-atheist-bus-advert-$7020184$300.jpg
Dont get me wrong. The Christians did it too with thier "Alpha course" stuff.
In defense of that, it was actually a protest against Christian bus ads that linked to a website threatening people with damnation.

[CheFighter777]

In defense of that, it was actually a protest against Christian bus ads that linked to a website threatening people with damnation.

Funny, Jesus, as the first socialist threatened a Rich Capitalist the same way!!!! BURN CAPITALIST BURN!!!! :castro: :castro:

Luke 16:19 Jesus said,
19. There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed and who lived each day in luxury. 20 At his door lay a diseased beggar named Lazarus. 21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man's table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores. 22 Finally, the beggar died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Lazarus in the far distance with Abraham. 24 "The rich man shouted, 'Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in these flames.' 25 "But Abraham said to him, 'Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. Anyone who wanted to cross over to you from here is stopped at its edge, and no one there can cross over to us.' 27 "Then the rich man said, 'Please, Father Abraham, send him to my father's home. 28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them about this place of torment so they won't have to come here when they die.' 29 "But Abraham said, 'Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read their writings anytime they want to.' 30 "The rich man replied, 'No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will turn from their sins.' 31 "But Abraham said, 'If they won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't listen even if someone rises from the dead.'"

[mykittyhasaboner]

I will repeat what someone already rightfully said in this thread earlier.


Some poetic passages going on all about morals and idealism do not form any basis for socialism or socialist politics.

Get it through your fucking head that Jesus wasn't a socialist, and most likely didn't even exist.

[CheFighter777]

I will repeat what someone already rightfully said in this thread earlier.


Some poetic passages going on all about morals and idealism do not form any basis for socialism or socialist politics.

Get it through your #$$%% head that Jesus wasn't a socialist, and most likely didn't even exist.

Funny for a guy who didn't exist, so much has been written about him!!!!!!

Did that passage strike a nerve, because you defend the rich??????????

[Kassad]

Funny for a guy who didn't exist, so much has been written about him!!!!!!

Really? Give me one primary source that isn't the Bible that cites the existence of a man named Jesus, the son of Mary, who had a band of 12 followers, in which he performed miracles with. Show me the source that says this man was crucified and killed. You don't even need to show me he rose from the dead! Just one primary source that cites all of these things.

[Rosa Provokateur]

But wouldn't that naturally infer that 'God' or whatever deity you worship also had to have a beginning? Did God merely wake up one morning and was 'alive' in the divine sense? What did he do before he created humanity? If everything must have a beginning, where was God's beginning?

The only answer you can respond with is that God is above human time and we cannot rationally comprehend his existence and his action. The problem with this argument is that it totally forsakes human logic, for you are sacrificing your mind, your abilities of deducation and your logic and saying that something is above you; a total submission to authority.

You totally fail to grasp any kind of human development and I'm a few moments away from guessing you're a creationist, which I honestly wish we could restrict people for. A defining moment in the universe set humanity in its earliest, likely single-cell stages. The earliest humans (in that sense) adapted and were forced to rapidly evolve and change to consistently survive. That process took billions of years, but is still happening. We still adapt, physically and emotionally, to put an end to humanity's ails and consistently promote our survival. This is a logical interpretation of human development, whereas yours is not only fallacious, but it is also blind to human logic and totally submissive. This is totally contradictory to Marxist materialist obervation and interpretation, as well as the fact that you reject political and bourgeois authority, only to replace it with that of spiritual and metaphysical tyranny.

Agreed, I think that increased investigation into the universe's origins will point us toward what was going on before and possibly... what G-d was doing or where He came from.

Point taken. I see it as not total submission to anything but rather the recognition that something was behind my existence and the existence of creation.

I'm only a creationist in that I believe an intelligent force played a role in building the universe; I agree with evolution for the most part, I'm not a Marxist, and I see nothing tyrannical in my belief in the spiritual.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Really? Give me one primary source that isn't the Bible that cites the existence of a man named Jesus, the son of Mary, who had a band of 12 followers, in which he performed miracles with. Show me the source that says this man was crucified and killed. You don't even need to show me he rose from the dead! Just one primary source that cites all of these things.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/evidence.html

http://www.dublinvcc.org/Welcome/ValleyChristianCenter/NEXTSTEPS/AreYouaNewBeliever/QuestionsofJesus/IsThereEvidencethatJesusExisted/tabid/830/Default.aspx

[CheFighter777]

Really? Give me one primary source that isn't the Bible that cites the existence of a man named Jesus, the son of Mary, who had a band of 12 followers, in which he performed miracles with. Show me the source that says this man was crucified and killed. You don't even need to show me he rose from the dead! Just one primary source that cites all of these things.

Look up Josephus, the Jewish Historian of that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus

[Pirate Utopian]

Did that passage strike a nerve, because you defend the rich??????????
Stop making these stupid comparisments.
First with capitalists, then nazi's, then racists and now of pro-bourgeoise motherfuckers.

As for you hammering on about Jesus existing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=696492648668420724&ei=ujfmSZwjg4_4BpWnsJsD&q=the+god+that+wasnt+there&hl=nl&dur=2
A small bit from The God Who Wasnt There.

Also the scripture quotes, knock that shit the fuck off.
You're not converting anybody.

[Kassad]

Sorry. I'm not accepting links today. If you can't give me a description with quotes, sources and the like, I'm not going to respond to you. Also, Josephus is a debated source. There is no universal acceptance of his writings. Of course, a lot of things are debated, but literally no one accepts Josephus' words as total truth. There were dozens of other scribes who lived in that area during that time. What? Were they asleep when this fucker walked on water? You children have got to be kidding me.

[Bitter Ashes]

lol. Did Kassad really just use Zeitegiest as a source?:lol:

[Kassad]

lol. Did Kassad really just use Zeitegiest as a source?:lol:

...No?

[Hoxhaist]

I think I figured it out. Its you white folks that are athiest who think your superior to all others.

But us Latino's, will always have faith, and be leftist!!!!!!!

...and Latino America will always believe in Cristo el libertador!!!!!!

Viva La Revolution papa siempre!!!!!

I was willing to listen until you started stereotyping. Of all the things in the world, I hate racism, stereotyping, and racial chauvinism!! Sorry pal you lost me!!!!

[Hoxhaist]

Okay. I think everyone needs to step back and take five and let thier hackles calm down for a moment. *holds out her arms*
Everyone hug now!
Unlikely to happen unfortunately and this argument is unnecessarily divisive. :closedeyes:

[CheFighter777]

I was willing to listen until you started stereotyping. Of all the things in the world, I hate racism, stereotyping, and racial chauvinism!! Sorry pal you lost me!!!!

Somebody should do a poll for atheists to see what race they are, in comparison to non-atheist.

[Sean]

Somebody should do a poll for atheists to see what race they are, in comparison to non-atheist.
Somebody should know that racial profiling is liable to get them restricted or banned from this website.

[CheFighter777]

Lets vote, and see what the real deal on Atheists!!!!

POLL TRASHED. You're on thin ice, fucko. -Sean
(http://www.revleft.com/vb/you-atheisti-t106535/index.html)

[Pirate Utopian]

Your poll was fucking stupid.
It's borderline racist to assume that colored people are per definition religious.

[CheFighter777]

Sorry guys. Didn't mean to offend anybody.

Know that I agree with Leftist, Socialistic principles, which is the reason I came to this forum.

[Bitter Ashes]

Lets vote, and see what the real deal on Atheists!!!
Tell me he didnt.... tell me he didnt...
*sighs*
What were you thinking?! Seriously, that sort of behavior is neither socialist or non-clerical Christianity either.

[Hoxhaist]

this is all getting out of control...

[CheFighter777]

Tell me he didnt.... tell me he didnt...
*sighs*
What were you thinking?! Seriously, that sort of behavior is neither socialist or non-clerical Christianity either.

Well, honestly, being Hispanic, raised in a Republican county, I've face lots of discrimination in my lifetime.

Now just imagine being in my shoes being stopped by the police at least 30 times plus. It can have an effect on your world view!

[Brother No. 1]

so much has been written about him!!!!!!

Incorrect whats been written is the lies the Religious leaders want you to believe. Jeuse was not a Socialist and he didnt exist. Best thing to do is give up your Religious shackels that keep you from seeing the REAL truth and not the babled up lies that the Religious Elite and the Capitalists made up to control the masses another way.

Botton line to understand: Religion is a tool used by the Capitalists to control the masses.

Besides Religion seems to ignor common logic and seem to implant fair tales into your mind. Religion is a trick,a lie, a big lonny idea,ect. Religion makes you believe in a Afterlife and a before life. By Before life i mean that you started in Heaven then somehow magical came down to earth and you'll be in Heaven or hell by your choices. Now first off how can you be in this "heaven" if your a embyro in your mothers womb. Second off how can there be a heaven or hell is the person who dies merey decomposes in the ground. Third off how can there be "god" for we checked the skies and hes not there. Besides why would this "god" let so many awful things happen to humanity if he loves us so much. Answer: he doesnt exist.

[F9]

Why do we even let this thread open?:rolleyes::rolleyes:Purpose...?None
Soooo Closed