If Cuba's so great, why do people leave?

[Lolshevik]

Let me clarify before I go on: as a Marxist-Leninist, I firmly support revolutionary Cuba and the gains it has made as a proletarian democracy under the constant threat of violent imperialism a mere 90 miles from its shores. So naturally, when the topic of socialism comes up with people who have been fed only bourgeois propaganda on all things Marxist, one of the questions I get usually goes, "Well if Cuba's so great then why do people leave for Florida so much?"

My response usually has to do with the fact that the U.S. government grants asylum to any Cuban who reaches American soil, including the criminal element. I also try to mention that the remnants of the bourgeois and petty-bourgeois classes find it more advantageous to live in America, as the Cuban economy is an economy for the proletariat, and not profit.

What types of arguments do other RevLefters deploy when defending Cuba? Nothing too detailed is going to gain much hold; these people are typically very flippant and arrogant about the whole thing, and my responses have to be short and to the point if I expect to make any headway at all.

[Communist Theory]

The people that leave are the ones that want to "pull themselves up by their bootstaps" but when they get to America they see how great Capitalism is and be poor and broke in the gutter. :scared:

[Charles Xavier]

Because Cuba is a developing country with lower living standards than the imperialist countries, Cubans get permanent residency for just landing in America.

Socialism isnt some magical system that makes developing countries as materially wealthy as the imperialist countries. Socialism represents progressive development of the economy and a more just system for the people.

Cuba is better off in a lot of Latin America but there are shortages from the embargo.

The rest of Latin America has their people leave their countries as well, but unlike the Cubans when they reach US soil unless they are rich, the only way they can stay is as an undocumented worker.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

Let me clarify before I go on: as a Marxist-Leninist, I firmly support revolutionary Cuba and the gains it has made as a proletarian democracy under the constant threat of violent imperialism a mere 90 miles from its shores. So naturally, when the topic of socialism comes up with people who have been fed only bourgeois propaganda on all things Marxist, one of the questions I get usually goes, "Well if Cuba's so great then why do people leave for Florida so much?"

My response usually has to do with the fact that the U.S. government grants asylum to any Cuban who reaches American soil, including the criminal element. I also try to mention that the remnants of the bourgeois and petty-bourgeois classes find it more advantageous to live in America, as the Cuban economy is an economy for the proletariat, and not profit.

What types of arguments do other RevLefters deploy when defending Cuba? Nothing too detailed is going to gain much hold; these people are typically very flippant and arrogant about the whole thing, and my responses have to be short and to the point if I expect to make any headway at all.

When I'm too lazy to talk about the embargo or the fact that many Cubans have family over here I usually just ask "why do so many South Koreans come to the US?" or "why do so many Canadians come to the US?" or the same question involving some other such developed country where we get a lot of immigrants from.

[Rjevan]

As it has been said before, the constant US embargo had a hand in the lower living standards and as people from the former soviet states did, many Cubans think that "everything will be better" under capitalism. They heard from friends about the higher living standards, saw wonderful pictures of the average American's life in the TV or on the internet and think that they will be wealthy as soon as they arrive in the "promised land". But after arriving many of them may realise that the grass always looks greener on the other side, that capitalism has not only good sides and that their old life was maybe better, after all.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Tupac is correct, except I would bet that Cuba has higher living standards than in Miami (while it might be in the imperialist heart-land, the only section of it that is really developed is south beach and the main district, the rest is horrible).

All those people leave and when they get here, they realize that Little Havana is mostly an impoverished shit hole, filled with violence, police repression, narcotics, thousands of forclosures, and ever increasing property rates (as if property in South Florida wasn't high enough :rolleyes:). It's a real shame that they waste their time and risking their lives, when they could have just stayed in Cuba, where you at least have some type of economic security.

[Jack]

Both because of things previously mentioned, but also because of repression in Cuba.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I remember there was two times that Castro said people can leave Cuba to go to other nation. I guess how many people will leave if that happen to third-world country. I can positively sure that it will be bigger than Cuba.

[CheFighter777]

If the US didn't have an embargo against Cuba, I bet people would be allot better off.

Then again, Che didn't agree on the way the way the Revolution started playing out, so Castro cast him off around the world.

Look how well developed China is now!!!!

[mykittyhasaboner]

I remember there was two times that Castro said people can leave Cuba to go to other nation. I guess how many people will leave if that happen to third-world country. I can positively sure that it will be bigger than Cuba.

Could you imagine if the rest of Latin America were given legal status if they simply step foot on US soil?

[mykittyhasaboner]

If the US didn't have an embargo against Cuba, I bet people would be allot better off.
The embargo is very harmful, but Cubans are still well off enough for them to not need to seek exodus. Most of the Cubans who leave Cuba to come to South Florida have family here, (that were most likely loyal, or in some way benefiting from the US backed dictatorships in Cuba) who left right after the revolution.


Then again, Che didn't agree on the way the way the Revolution started playing out, so Castro cast him off around the world.
Er, that's quite an oversimplification, if not outright false. Che certainly agreed with many of the actions and accomplishments of the Cuban revolution, there's no doubting that. Che left on his own accord, to pursue revolutionary change in other countries.


Look how well developed China is now!!!!
I don't see the relevance.

[CheFighter777]

Er, that's quite an oversimplification, if not outright false. Che certainly agreed with many of the actions and accomplishments of the Cuban revolution, there's no doubting that. Che left on his own accord, to pursue revolutionary change in other countries.


So you really think that Che left on his own, after fighting so hard in the Revolution, and even becoming Cuban citizen? There's no real way to prove it, especially since Che is now dead.


I don't see the relevance.

US doesn't hold an embargo against China like it does against Cuba.

[Charles Xavier]

So you really think that Che left on his own, after fighting so hard in the Revolution, and even becoming Cuban citizen? There's no real way to prove it, especially since Che is now dead.



US doesn't hold an embargo against China like it does against Cuba.


Yes, there is because Che did leave on his own accord and said so in his speeches and diaries.

I mean if you took 5 seconds to read his journals you would know this.

[CheFighter777]

Yes, there is because Che did leave on his own accord and said so in his speeches and diaries.

I mean if you took 5 seconds to read his journals you would know this.

Ahhh. Can't say I truely have. So maybe your right!!!! :D

[mykittyhasaboner]

Farewell Letter from Che to Castro (http://marxists.org/archive/guevara/1965/04/01.htm)

[manic expression]

Could you imagine if the rest of Latin America were given legal status if they simply step foot on US soil?
Exactly.

The US government gives 20,000 visas to Cuban immigrants each year. That's more than they provide for any other country on the face of the planet. Factor in the "dry foot" policy and it becomes incredible that relatively few Cubans try to emigrate.

Also, emigration from Cuba was at its highest in the early Special Period, during which Cuba was literally besieged and isolated from the rest of the world.

[CheFighter777]

Looks like Obama has just made some policy changes regarding Cuba, allowing families to visit more and sending money. But, I really don't see it going more than that.

IMO Obama is nothing more than a Republican with some liberal views.

Just look at how he condemned Hugo Chavez as a supporter of terrorism, and a destabilizer of Latin America.

[CheFighter777]

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama sends special agents to assassinate Chavez, so his big banker buddies can gain control of Venezuela again.

[Invincible Summer]

Ahhh. Can't say I truely have. So maybe your right!!!! :D

Yet your username is "CheFighter"... how ironic.

[Psy]

The biggest reason is that Cuba is not a industrial nation and still primarily an agricultural economy, one that actually to de-industrialize its agricultural production when the U.S.S.R fell as Cuba lost its supply of crude oil to refine into fuel for its machines.

[Charles Xavier]

One word money you make more money here than you there.

I count 9 words.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I count 9 words.
Actually, it 11 words.

[Dominicana_1965]

People all over the world rush to the industrialized "First World" nations, not just Cubans. Dominicans, Haitians, Mexicans, Hondurans, Salvadorans, and countless others leave their homelands to ultimately reach the United States or the privileged European ones. Take also into consideration that Cuban migrants have historically received a far more "legal" friendly environment in the U.S. thanks to acts like the "Cuban Adjustment Act". The U.S. is well known for promoting illegal immigration by withholding visas and brutally decreasing the number of Cubans that actually leave the country.

Cuba has a better standard of living than most countries in Latin America, matter of fact it was the first country in Latin American history to wipe out illiteracy in two years (1959-1961), has free health care (when many in Latin America don't have access to health care), have a rationing system that even the U.N. claims has prevented wide scale malnutrition (in comparison to Africa, Asia and Latin America where it runs rampant), the infant mortality rate is lower than the U.S.

Cubans leave for the very same reason others in the region leave, economic reasons. Cuba has faced an embargo since 1963 (implemented by Kennedy) which has cost billions of dollars in damage to a country that has a planned economy and lost it's main trading partner (the USSR).