Sri Lanka Solidarity protests in London

[bellyscratch]

Apparently there was about 3,000 protesters demonstrating outside parliament last night (illegally) and 500 of them have camped there through the night. There has been clashes with the police, resulting in injuries and some arrests made.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/07/london-sri-lanka-protests

[Mike Morin]

Oh Brittannia, Brittannia Rule the Waves... :laugh:

Sri Lanka used to be called Ceylon which probably got its derivation from the indigenous islanders telling the Imperialist Brits to "Sail on" (in other words, get the F*ck out of here)...

"The Sun also sets doesn't it ol' "Great" :laugh: Britain, ol' UK :lol:


MM
peu

[Killfacer]

Sorry, what are they protesting for the UK to do?

[Pogue]

Sorry, what are they protesting for the UK to do?

Intervene in the conflict/violence in Sri Lanka.

[Killfacer]

Intervene in the conflict/violence in Sri Lanka.

So they want the UK to send in troops to sri lanka?

[Pogue]

So they want the UK to send in troops to sri lanka?

No, diplomatic pressure, humanitarian aid, pressure on the UN, mainly.

[Patchd]

As well as I'm sure, to raise awareness of the issue. It is one which has been neglected by left as well as large sections of British society, not sure what it is like in other areas of the world.

Being from South London, I have loads of Tamil friends, some of whom had parents who had escaped Sri Lanka because of prejudice, discrimination and attacks on the Tamil population, I knew a few who had been former members of the Tamil Tigers even, although now the strength of that organisation has dwindled significantly.

Even during the Tsunami, not enough was done to ensure that the aid reached those areas which were hit most hardly. Aid going through Sri Lanka was usually syphoned off by the Singhalese government and a lot of aid was denied to Tamil areas, which were areas hit the hardest by the Tsunami. The Tamil Tigers even had to divert a lot of their attention away from resistance to providing aid to their communities.

It's good to see Sri Lanka get some coverage.

[brigadista]

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/04/426890.html

why they are demostrating
they are still there....lots of injuries....

[Patchd]

There was a protest today for this too, parliament square is fenced off, and I'm not sure if some of the protesters are going to attempt to occupy it again or not. Last time they did they were faced with brutal police attacks, even on the elderly and young teenagers!

This is something which many leftists have not kept an eye on, yet is still an important issue. Lets not forget about the oppressed Tamils, yet give everything for the Palestinian cause which is very important at the same time.

[Patchd]

Would StWC people here give support to the LTTE against the Sinhalese government, as they would give Hamas support against Israel? Just wondering (for the time being).

[bellyscratch]

Would StWC people here give support to the LTTE against the Sinhalese government, as they would give Hamas support against Israel? Just wondering (for the time being).

I would yes. I think StWC have released a couple of statements about it, but I do think that they have been far too quiet about this

[bellyscratch]

Just the one statement from StWC then...

http://stopwar.org.uk/content/view/1173/144/

If I wasn't so busy at the moment, this is something I'd be trying to raise more awareness on in my area. Next time I see people from StWC I'll have a word with them about this and see what they say

[Patchd]

Far far too quiet, barely anywhere to be seen on the protest on Saturday unfortunately.

How then would you justify supporting a children soldier recruiting, racist, bourgeois nationalist, organisation that not only targets the state but also directly attacks Sinhalese workers too?

Afterall, there are many Sinhalese people in Britain also who might even be able to be persuaded to support the Tamil plight, but if they see the movement waving flags and calling for support of an organisation that hates their guts, then that undermines the movement, it limits it on a racial basis.

Just because there is seemingly no other organisation in the region with decent politics does not mean we have to limit our politics by supporting an existing, but a nationalist one.

[bellyscratch]

Far far too quiet, barely anywhere to be seen on the protest on Saturday unfortunately.

How then would you justify supporting a children soldier recruiting, racist, bourgeois nationalist, organisation that not only targets the state but also directly attacks Sinhalese workers too?

Afterall, there are many Sinhalese people in Britain also who might even be able to be persuaded to support the Tamil plight, but if they see the movement waving flags and calling for support of an organisation that hates their guts, then that undermines the movement, it limits it on a racial basis.

Just because there is seemingly no other organisation in the region with decent politics does not mean we have to limit our politics by supporting an existing, but a nationalist one.


Sorry, I misread your earlier post.

I don't support Hamas or the LTTE. I sympathise with their position to an extent, but am critical of both organisations.

Sorry for any confusion :blushing:

[Patchd]

Ah no worries. I guess likewise, I understand why people would join those organisations, or see them as a viable option, especially if they're in the situation of the Tamils or Palestinians, and are facing brutality and oppression and have no where else to turn to, or even if they do not see them as a viable option, opposition to LTTE can get you killed sometimes, even if you are a Tamil.

[bellyscratch]

Just another thing to add. The reason that StWC may of not had much presence at the Tamil protest is probably because they were at the Ian Tomlinson one... Personally, if that is the reason, then I think it could well be seen as a bit opportunistic...

[Patchd]

Sorry to bump this, but I recently wrote an article (with a Libertarian bias) on the subject if anyone's interested, put it on me blog: http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?b=330

I find it a bit disheartening that not many people know as much on the subject as they do on the Israel-Palestine question, but that's due to a lack of information on the subject mainly due to the failure of the media to report on this issue.

[Sasha]

but that's due to a lack of information on the subject mainly due to the failure of the media to report on this issue.


no, i'm afraid that is because its not trendy...

(and no outlet for the secret anti-semitism of some on the left)

[Pogue]

I hesontly didn't know enough about the conflict and the protests to attend, but I'll go along to the next one now as it seems to be something we should be discussing and getting involved with.

[Patchd]

no, i'm afraid that is because its not trendy...

(and no outlet for the secret anti-semitism of some on the left)

I can see that being the case for Stop the War executives, afterall, it won't appeal to their muslim support base, and if they want to remain politically consistent, they'd have to justify their support for the LTTE, which, in some respects, is much worse than Hamas.

[Pogue]

I can see that being the case for Stop the War executives, afterall, it won't appeal to their muslim support base, and if they want to remain politically consistent, they'd have to justify their support for the LTTE, which, in some respects, is much worse than Hamas.

Anarcho bloc on the next Tamil demo then? :p

[Patchd]

Anarcho bloc on the next Tamil demo then? :p
Haha, I'll be up for that. :lol:
The Tamil liberation movement is so engrained in Nationalism that it's important that we agitate within it to move it away from that.

[bellyscratch]

(and no outlet for the secret anti-semitism of some on the left)

I think theres a difference between some sections of the left popularizing their politics to appeal to the Islamic community and being anti-semitic imo. Not that I'm sticking up for anyone who does try do this either, as although I have worked with organisations that may be guilty of doing so on occaisions, I still have a critical view of them.

[Patchd]

Fighting between the LTTE (Tamil Tigers) and the Sri Lankan state has intensified, the Sri Lankan government is only allowing their state media into the region, obviously so they can control what goes in and out in terms of propaganda. There is a humanitarian crisis to the extreme there that goes unreported most of the time, some experts have claimed from pictures taken from sattelites that there have been what seems like craters which can only be the result of air bombardment or artillery fire, so most likely it was from the Sri Lankan government, although the LTTE have been known to have used aircraft before on Colombo, it is rare that they ever get hold of any.

In addition, Tamil refugees fleeing their communities have claimed that the LTTE had shot at them from boats, note that the LTTE have been known to intimidate and murder Tamils refusing to cooperate with them, however also take note that all film and media from inside the conflict zone have been filtered through the Sri Lankan state media, which will no doubt subjectively portray the situation, and the shooting from boats incident could potentially have been conducted by the Sri Lankan state, although no one can say for sure.

The LTTE say they are going to fight till the end.

EDIT:

Also from the site (http://www.eelamweb.com/faq/) you gave in the above post socialist, they provide only the bare minimum for an understanding of the conflict, no surprise as it is a pro-Tamil Eelam site.



6. Is there religious freedom in Tamil Eelam ?

Not only religious freedom, but the people are encouraged to follow their own religion by Tamil Eelam administration even under the severe war conditions and economic ban. The Christian, mainly Catholic and Hindu religious leaders are always provided all the support needed for their religious freedom. Islam, however, is not being practised presently, as the Muslims have been asked to leave the Tamil Eelam territory until the independence of Tamil Eelam. The Muslims supported the aggressive Sri Lankan Sinhala and Muslim Military against the freedom of Tamil Eelam.

This is somewhat inaccurate, and it generalises the Muslim community when they were present in large numbers in Eelam. There were Muslim Tamils fighting alongside the Tamil Tigers for a while, many were swayed away after the killing of their own family members or Muslims in their communities by the Tamil Tigers and as a result many were radicalised in the other direction; opposition to Tamil Eelam. There were Muslims who sided with the Sri Lankan government, but there were also a few who sided with the Tamil Tigers, now all are discriminated against in Tamil Eelam.

[la lucha sigue]

you can't criticise the ltte for being a nationalist organisation. their nationality is the reason why they are facing genocide. its only natural that they would turn to nationalism to express their desire for freedom. nationalism may be flawed as an ideology, but who are we to criticise how an oppressed people chose to defend themselves. if you really believe you have the right to criticise, you go to mulativu and start trying to organise a socialist alternative and see how far it gets you.

[Patchd]

you can't criticise the ltte for being a nationalist organisation. their nationality is the reason why they are facing genocide. its only natural that they would turn to nationalism to express their desire for freedom.

Yes I can, I'm a Communist so of course I can, and I will.

In addition, it has also been their nationalism that has led the LTTE to target Sinhalese civilians, on the pretext that those civilians are also the enemy because of their nationality. You're right as well, naturally people will turn to Nationalism, and that's something which we on the left need to oppose. Would you have supported German Nationalism when they were occupied by the USA, UK, France and the USSR?

I hate how some leftists love defending Nationalism.


nationalism may be flawed as an ideology, but who are we to criticise how an oppressed people chose to defend themselves.

We are observers who think otherwise, people have opinions, and we are representing ours. I'm not forcing people to adopt my position on matters, I'm presenting another option for them.

Who forced the Tamil population to Nationalism? The LTTE have been known to have forced people to support them, or to even pick up weapons to fight on the same side, and have killed dissidents in Tamil Eelam. Before the current conflict, the Tamil liberation movement was much more moderate, and in some areas, Socialism was prevalent.


if you really believe you have the right to criticise, you go to mulativu and start trying to organise a socialist alternative and see how far it gets you.

That's not an argument, what the hell are you doing discussing international affairs on an online board too? Why don't you go to those places and sort things out there instead eh?

I'm guessing, I'll be shot by the LTTE if I try, if not then perhaps by the Sri Lankan army ... amirite? Still, my fight is here, where I live currently, I am allowed to suggest what I think would be better, it's not me telling Tamils what to do and where to do it.

[communard resolution]

Oh Brittannia, Brittannia Rule the Waves... :laugh:

Sri Lanka used to be called Ceylon which probably got its derivation from the indigenous islanders telling the Imperialist Brits to "Sail on" (in other words, get the F*ck out of here)...

"The Sun also sets doesn't it ol' "Great" :laugh: Britain, ol' UK :lol:


MM
peu

Mike Morin,

I would have barely noticed this post had you not insulted a fellow poster on the grounds of their being British in a different thread.

Your singling out of Brits has an unpleasant ring to it. Stop it already, we don't appreciate national chauvinisms here.

[la lucha sigue]

of course you can criticise the theory behind the nationalism of the ltte, but what good does it do? groups such as the tamils don't have the full range of options that are open to others groups. for a socialist alternative to develop takes certain conditions. the conditions in tamil eelam manifest themselves in a nationalist resistance, not a socialist one. i wish it were a socialist resistance, i believe it would have had much more success, but when the tamil people are in the predicament that they are in now, then it only serves the sri lankan state to levy your criticism against those who are being massacred and those who are brave enough to resist that massacre in arms.

Is the real problem here the nationalism of the ltte or is it the genocidal aims of the sri lankan state? Pick your side! My sympathies will always be with those who are resisting. Now is not the time to undermine that resistance, at least not in the way that it has been expressed on this thread. The coming period will be a time for reflection of how best to resist now that the ltte state has been dismantled, and it may be that nationalism has played its part in that demise, but unless you are speaking from a tamil revolutionary perspective such stark and unconstructive criticism is out of order.

[la lucha sigue]

Mike Morin,

Your singling out of Brits has an unpleasant ring to it. Stop it already, we don't appreciate national chauvinisms here.

i trust that my criticism of the sri lankan state doesn't fall into national chauvanism.

Brits is a reference not to the british people, but to the british imperial project and those who staff it. i think its understandable enough for a colonised people to fall into national chauvanism against their colonisers once every so often, eh? I hope all references to US imperialism are likewise censored on this site.

off topic though

[communard resolution]

i trust that my criticism of the sri lankan state doesn't fall into national chauvanism.

It does not, neither does criticism nor outright condemnation of the British state.



Brits is a reference not to the british peopleMike Morin has directed an anti-British remark at a revleft poster from the UK before. In this light, his post in this thread has a dodgy ring to it. I'm sure he knows what I'm referring to.

[Patchd]

Don't worry comrade, he's not referring to your post.:)


of course you can criticise the theory behind the nationalism of the ltte, but what good does it do?

It takes away support from a decrepit ideology, if a separate movement an be created which not only encompasses Hindu, Muslim and Christian Tamils, but also Sinhalese workers, chances of discrimination disappearing will increase.

Buddhism is the most prevalent religion in Sri Lanka, and Buddhism itself is quite a "nice" religion in terms of equality. Obviously, the state has utilised it in a different manner, to the point where there are Sri Lankan Buddhist sects calling for the complete ethnic cleansing of the Tamil population.

However, when we support organisations and ideologies such as that which the LTTE uphold, we make no gains with the Sinhalese working class either. We are Internationalists, not Nationalists, we do not need to side with one Nation over another, but moreso we should, as leftists, call for the abolition of Nation-states, call for working class solidarity.

In addition, considering the actions of the LTTE, all we will see from a sovereign Tamil Eelam would be the discrimination of another nationality, the Sinhalese, as well as on religious grounds, muslims and others.


groups such as the tamils don't have the full range of options that are open to others groups. for a socialist alternative to develop takes certain conditions.

I agree to an extent, but just because there is currently no decent alternative in the region, does not mean that we should not advocate it and support the "lesser evil", it's not our tasks as revolutionaries to support a movement which doesn't have the same goals as ours.

In addition, Tamil Nadu, which is home to many Tamils and does influence as well as fund Tamil Eelam (and the LTTE), does have Communist parties and organisations active there, ideas can flow through that channel. Let's also keep in mind that the LTTE is not the only militant Tamil Nationalist organisation, there are a number of others, and like in Palestine, differing organisations have also fought one another brutally in order to gain hegemony over the liberation movement. What if LTTE wins, I would guess the PLOTE will continue to fight.


the conditions in tamil eelam manifest themselves in a nationalist resistance, not a socialist one. i wish it were a socialist resistance, i believe it would have had much more success, but when the tamil people are in the predicament that they are in now, then it only serves the sri lankan state to levy your criticism against those who are being massacred and those who are brave enough to resist that massacre in arms.

Not at all, because while we keep in mind that the Sri Lankan state is the biggest oppressor in Sri Lanka, not only to Tamils, but also to Sinhalese workers. It doesn't serve the Sri Lankan state at all, and usually that is an argument made with the intention of denouncing us for not supporting Nationalism.

In addition, what makes you say the conditions in Tamil Eelam is not right for a Socialist/Communist alternative? Are Communists less likely to fight than Nationalists, because Angola and many other regions in the world beg to differ.

Is the real problem here the nationalism of the ltte or is it the genocidal aims of the sri lankan state? Pick your side! My sympathies will always be with those who are resisting. Now is not the time to undermine that resistance, at least not in the way that it has been expressed on this thread. The coming period will be a time for reflection of how best to resist now that the ltte state has been dismantled, and it may be that nationalism has played its part in that demise, but unless you are speaking from a tamil revolutionary perspective such stark and unconstructive criticism is out of order.[/QUOTE]

[la lucha sigue]

on a theoretical level i agree with your analysis. but i'm talking about a practical situation. what's the use of talking about what the ltte would do IF they were victorious when they are fighting in the jungle to prolong their lives for perhaps another week. you say that its not our job as revolutionaries to support nationalist causes. i disagree. we should be supporting all attempts by risen people to resist. very few of them will share our exact political ideologies. we can support a nationalist resistance movement, while remaining critical in a constructive manner. if we abandon those brave enough to resist just because they espouse a nationalist agenda, then we encourage defeat for resistance itself. i'd prefer to see a risen nationalist people than an elitist and defeated socialist revolution.

victory to the tamil people, in whatever guise their resistance takes!!

[scarletghoul]

The Tamil Tiger movement is one of national liberation, so of course it will be a bit nationalistic. >_>
We need more communist tamils

[Patchd]

on a theoretical level i agree with your analysis. but i'm talking about a practical situation. what's the use of talking about what the ltte would do IF they were victorious when they are fighting in the jungle to prolong their lives for perhaps another week.

Because I believe it is important to the question of whether we should support them or not. If we give them support, we are also giving them support for their goals.


you say that its not our job as revolutionaries to support nationalist causes. i disagree. we should be supporting all attempts by risen people to resist.Oh indeed! I support the resistance against the Sinhalese state which is responsible for oppressing them, in the sense that I support the firing of weapons in the same direction as the Tamil Tigers. I support any resistance to oppression, but that does not mean I will put my name down to supporting an organisation which I deem to be anti-working class.

What is going on there is a war, and it has been so for over 25 years now, so of course I will call for Tamils to fire in the same direction as the LTTE to an extent, in the direction of the Sinhalese state, not in the direction of Sinhalese workers, Muslims, dissenting Tamils and so forth, to support the LTTE would be giving support to the repression of all three groups I just mentioned and more!


very few of them will share our exact political ideologies. we can support a nationalist resistance movement, while remaining critical in a constructive manner. if we abandon those brave enough to resist just because they espouse a nationalist agenda, then we encourage defeat for resistance itself.I agree again to an extent, we must agitate within those movements. The protests in London were largely Nationalist, and like you said, it was no surprise that it would be, unfortunately, Nationalism is a popular ideology amongst oppressed peoples, however it did not stop me from saying to my Tamil friends around me along with others during the protests, that the LTTE are also not a viable alternative.


i'd prefer to see a risen nationalist people than an elitist and defeated socialist revolution.

victory to the tamil people, in whatever guise their resistance takes!Even when they air raid Colombo targeting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7902392.stm) Sinhalese workers in some cases (http://news.indiainfo.com/2006/05/30/3005tamil-tigers-sri-lanka.html)? When they recruit child soldiers, target Muslim communities, kill school teachers for not standing under their names in elections?

You will put your name to such an anti-worker organisation?

[la lucha sigue]

Even when they air raid Colombo targeting Sinhalese workers in some cases? When they recruit child soldiers, target Muslim communities, kill school teachers for not standing under their names in elections?

You will put your name to such an anti-worker organisation?

If you stop to make sure you don't kill or abuse any workers, no armed revolution would ever get off the ground! And what about the workers that side with the class enemies! Should the ltte stop targetting sri lankan soldiers, who are after all workers just like them?

You are arguing for a perfect revolution, i am suggesting that in the real world that the form that tamil resistance has taken should be supported not undermined. I'm not talking about unequivocal support, but the imperfections that you refer to are nothing compared to the genocide that is going on as we speak. Criticism of the ltte must be placed squarely in that context, or it only assists the forces of the state.

And any flaws, no matter how serious they are, have to be seen in the context of a resistance movement fighting against a heavily armed state. A resistance movement does not have the luxuries of the state, and cannot be judged by the same standards. To do so is to doom any revolution to failure.

This "anti-worker organisation" as you describe it, has done more for the workers of tamil eelam than any other organisation. I have no hesitation standing by such an organisation!

[h0m0revolutionary]

This "anti-worker organisation" as you describe it, has done more for the workers of tamil eelam than any other organisation. I have no hesitation standing by such an organisation!

This is pretty simple really, LTTE as a reactionary, nationalist and racialist force should not be supported.

In fact what you're doing by supporting the LTTE is inherently anti-worker. You're supporting an orginisaiton whose whole premise that that Tamils will be better off under a Tamil government.
What is left wing about this?

The LTTE undermine class agitation by suggesting that tamils, to escape their oppression under the Sri Lankan governemnt must seek to unite against the Sri Lankan people. This translates into the following assertions:
- That race is more important a factor in the oppression of the tamils than class
- That Tamil workers have more im common with Tamil ruling class/any incoming Tamil bourgioisie than they do with Sri Lankan/Sinhalese workers
- That the establishmeet of a racial Tamil state is progressive

So, again I ask, what is left wing about supporting the creation of a new national bourgiosie? We should be showing tamil workers that their oppression lies in their lack of unity with Sinhalese workers, what we shouldn't be doing, is causing more division between the working classes in Sri Lanka by supporting the LTTE that purports Tamil class collaberation to be the remedy for this awful situation.

[Zurdito]

Just because there is seemingly no other organisation in the region with decent politics does not mean we have to limit our politics by supporting an existing, but a nationalist one.

How can it not mean that?

I have met Sri Lankan communists, workers and TU activists, and I know what the Tamil Tigers are, their approach to the Tamil working class is quasi fascistic. But they are the only ones - in large part because they anihilated the opposition - who are today defeding the Tamil masses from the Sri Lankan army - and therefore surely we should want, militarily, their victory against those forces, and we should understand that
1.) the Tamil armed struggle to defend itself from the ethnic cleansing of the Sri Lankan government is just and
2.) that any Tamil who wants to be part of that struggle today, or who wants to support, has to for the military victory of the LTTE against the Sri Lankan army, because the LTTE is only (currently) leading a struggle which goes way beyond its own politics and forces.

Otherwise we are saying that a LTTE victory over the Sri Lankan army is the same as the other way around! But how can anyone believe that when one (in a brutally reactionary way) is leading the struggle of a nation against ethnic cleansing, and the other represents the forces doing the ethnic cleansing? And how can the revolutionary left take the leadership fo the Tamil working class and its struggle for national freedom, if it does not even differentiate between those leading the struggle and those trying to cleanse them?:confused:

[Patchd]

How can it not mean that?

I have met Sri Lankan communists, workers and TU activists, and I know what the Tamil Tigers are, their approach to the Tamil working class is quasi fascistic.

Likewise I've met a few Sri Lankan Communists too, somewhat Stalinist and some support the LTTE unfortunately. Even still, if you admitted them to be an anti-worker force, I really do not see how you defend them except by defending Nationalism itself.


But they are the only ones - in large part because they anihilated the opposition - who are today defeding the Tamil masses from the Sri Lankan army - and therefore surely we should want, militarily, their victory against those forces,

No, we shouldn't want their military victory against the forces of Sri Lankan capital! We should want the defeat of the Sri Lankan state! Just because there is no other viable organisation in the region does not mean we must halt all progressive thought there and support whatever currently exists, we should always agitate for better, till we have the best, until we have a pro-worker, anti-Capitalist, anti-racist organisation.

At the same time, others could argue that with the defeat of the LTTE, the Sri Lankan government can begin to create the facade that they can take care of the Tamil population also, obviously, we know this to be false and that the whole conflict started primarily because of the slaughter of 100,000 Tamils 25 years ago by the Sri Lankan state, however I highly doubt they will continue much military actions in the region. My point being that the LTTE is one of the reasons why the Sri Lankan army is attacking, and if the Sri Lankan army is attacking because Nationalists want Tamil workers to be oppressed and exploited by Tamil Capitalists instead of Sinhalese ones, then that is not a reason I want the resistance to continue.

In addition, military support is political support, militaries afterall are the forceful expression of politics, so giving the LTTE military support is also giving them political support.


and we should understand that
1.) the Tamil armed struggle to defend itself from the ethnic cleansing of the Sri Lankan government is just and
2.) that any Tamil who wants to be part of that struggle today, or who wants to support, has to for the military victory of the LTTE against the Sri Lankan army, because the LTTE is only (currently) leading a struggle which goes way beyond its own politics and forces.

I accept the former, but not the latter. Consider a hypothetical, Communists in Tamil Eelam, would you advocate them to support the LTTE, an organisation which may well suppress our comrades if they win in the region? Or, would you advocate them forming their own liberation movement, but one which will actually liberate Tamils, and not just from Sinhalese Capitalists, but also from potential Tamil Capitalists?


Otherwise we are saying that a LTTE victory over the Sri Lankan army is the same as the other way around!

Yeah, for Sinhalese workers, muslims, LGBTQ, it will be the same as is happening to the Tamils now if Tamil Eelam is established as a National Tamil state. Do you honestly think the very same racist organisation, if it got into power, will completely remove itself from it's former racism and treat Sinhalese civilians in the same respect as a Tamil?


But how can anyone believe that when one (in a brutally reactionary way) is leading the struggle of a nation against ethnic cleansing, and the other represents the forces doing the ethnic cleansing? And how can the revolutionary left take the leadership fo the Tamil working class and its struggle for national freedom, if it does not even differentiate between those leading the struggle and those trying to cleanse them?:confused:

The struggle of the Tamil ruling class is different to that of the average Tamil. Those from poorer backgrounds joined the struggle because they saw their families killed, their right to vote diminish, their day to day lives turned to dust, however, when the ruling class began to "lead" the militant fight, they did so because of things which they, as privileged members of society, should receive: University education and well paid jobs, it was when the Sinhalese state limited this that the ruling class even took up guns.

National freedom is a farce in itself, it is not freedom for the working class, it simply means they can now be oppressed and exploited by their own national ruling class. It's orite as long as it aint Sinhala amirite? I hope not. I think even you would agree with me that it is not the interests of the working class wherever they are in the world to be oppressed or exploited in any way, by their own national bourgeoisie, or by the ruling class of another nation.

[Zurdito]

I don't agree that military support is the same as political support. I don't think that we can ignore reality and say "just because the actual struggle is happening in x way doesn't mean I have to abandon my ideals and adjust my thinking to reality". I don't start from morals or ideals but reality, and that is that the Tamils are oppeessed for their nationality as well as gender and sexuality and as well as being exploited as a working class, i.e. Tamils are placed in double chains (triple, quadruple?) to use the immortal words of Trotsky. So no, I do not hold them to the standard that they must renounce all bourgeois thought before I support their actually existing struggle against national oppression!

I do not think it is in any way a farce to fight for national liberation, as Tamil oppression is real and not some "identity" invented by Sinhalese and Tamil bourgeois plotters in order to divide the workers, and therefore the demand to end it is valid. and class struggle should be seen as a living reality and not a dogma, the Tamil bourgeoisie is also oppressed by the Sri Lankan state and this has a dialectical relationship with their class position: on the one hand they have to rest on the masses to fight their condition as an oppressed nation, and on the other they have to repress those masses to retain their priveliges, in reality aiding the oppressor nation by doing so. Therefore they can lead a progressive struggle, but contain it within their class interests.

Revolutioanries need to take the lead of that struggle, and I know that in Sri Lanka they are trying and there are a relatively good number of them with good experience - and they will not acheive this by abstaining from the existing movement (which is not just LTTE members, but is currently dependent on that organization)

[chebol]

Green Left Weekly #791 editorial: (http://www.greenleft.org.au/)

The Tamils need support

One of the great crimes of modern times is occurring on the island of Sri Lanka without a word of protest from governments the world over. The Tamil people are facing genocide.

Already this year, the death toll of Tamil civilians exceeds 4000. Often dozens, and in some cases hundreds, are slaughtered in a single day in Sri Lankan Army (SLA) bombings of the so-called safe zone, into which as many as 300,000 people are crowded.

Those Tamils who flee this zone are being placed into concentration camps by the SLA.

This brutal reality is almost entirely unreported, and not simply because the Sri Lankan government refuses to allow journalists access to the scene of its crime. Instead, the mainstream media is once again siding with the powerful.

When the issue is reported at all, the Sri Lankan government's propaganda is repeated the propaganda of a regime that refuses to allow a free press, with one of the world's highest rates of journalists being murdered each year.

According to Sri Lankan propaganda, the military are merely fighting "terrorism". It claims its war is merely against the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), an armed group fighting for an independent Tamil homeland in the island's east and north.

Yet Sri Lanka's actions prove its war is against the Tamil people as a whole.

The actions of the LTTE are a response to the decades of discrimination and violent repression meted out to the Tamil minority by a state dominated by the majority Sinhalese ethnic group. Support for armed struggle grew among Tamils in response to the violent anti-Tamil pogroms in 1983 that killed more than 3000 people.

The solution to ending the decades-long war on the island, and bringing about desperately needed peace, is to end the oppression of the Tamil people.

First, and most urgently, there must be a permanent ceasefire declared. The mass killings must be ended. Food and medical supplies must be allowed into the "safe-zone", without which aid agencies are warning of a terrible humanitarian crisis.

The Tamil people must regain their freedom of movement and the concentration camps must be closed.

Once this occurs, the conditions for a negotiated settlement to the crisis, which can resolve the issue of self-determination for the Tamil people, will exist.

However, powerful governments, in defence of powerful interests, are allowing the Tamil people to be sacrificed. In return, the powerful are manoeuvring for access to lucrative shipping routes and ports.

To avoid upsetting the racist and undemocratic regime in Colombo, that regime is allowed a free hand to implement a "final solution" to the Tamil question. Once again, the corporate elite is placing profit over human life.

People around the world who believe in social justice must raise their voices. The Tamil diaspora is desperately attempting to bring the plight of its people to the world's attention. In their hundreds of thousands, they have marched in cities around the globe.

In India, dozens of Tamils have self-immolated to bring attention to the situation. In Australia, six young Tamils went on hunger strike for almost a week. They refused food or water, with a serious risk of death, in an appeal to the Australian government to press Sri Lanka to call a permanent ceasefire.

We cannot let them stand alone. Those who believe in social justice and political parties, trade unions, churches, social movements must speak out against the atrocities occurring right now.

The powerful have abandoned the Tamil people, it must be ordinary people all over the world who use their power to force action.

When Israel levelled Gaza, millions marched in opposition. That movement must continue, and the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign seeking to isolate apartheid Israel is beginning to have effect. But that display of "people power" needs to be repeated on behalf of the Tamils.

International solidarity helped end apartheid in South Africa, despite Western governments siding with the regime. It helped the East Timorese win their independence, despite Western governments including Australia siding with Indonesia.

It is placing Israel on the back foot, despite the most powerful nations on Earth backing the oppressors of the Palestinian people.

Now, international solidarity must be mobilised to save the Tamil people and stop the genocide.

[Support this very urgent struggle by joining the heroic campaign of the young Australian Tamils. Visit http://www.tamilsydney.com (http://www.tamilsydney.com/)

More here:
http://tamilsol.blogspot.com/ (http://tamilsol.blogspot.com/)
http://fastuntoaction.wordpress.com/ (http://fastuntoaction.wordpress.com/)

[Hoxhaist]

I sympathize with the LTTE. The Tamil have no representation and are supressed by the Sinhalese majority and it was a shame to see the Liberation Tigers so routed in the north and now on the verge of defeat

[Hoxhaist]

Are there any solidarity protests in the US?

[Patchd]

I don't agree that military support is the same as political support.

So what are militaries? Simply armed bodies of apolitical people? No, they are the forceful representation of a political expression, armies always have and always will be, including the LTTE, their political expression is Tamil Nationalism obviously. Supporting their military victory is supporting their politics, their Tamil Nationalism, if you want the LTTE to win, if they do they will impose their politics in Tamil Eelam no?


I don't think that we can ignore reality and say "just because the actual struggle is happening in x way doesn't mean I have to abandon my ideals and adjust my thinking to reality". I don't start from morals or ideals but reality, and that is that the Tamils are oppeessed for their nationality as well as gender and sexuality and as well as being exploited as a working class, i.e. Tamils are placed in double chains (triple, quadruple?) to use the immortal words of Trotsky. So no, I do not hold them to the standard that they must renounce all bourgeois thought before I support their actually existing struggle against national oppression!

I don't renounce any support for resistance against the Sri Lankan state either! Like I've said before, I support the resistance in the sense that I support the firing of guns in the same direction as the LTTE, directed towards the Sri Lankan state, which is afterall the main enemy for the Tamil people.

However, at the same time, we have to also denounce the LTTE as an organisation, for being a Nationalist organisation, for recruiting child soldiers, for silencing Tamil dissidents, for targeting Sinhalese workers, for the ethnic cleansing and removal of Muslim communities from their areas as well as annihilating any other resistance force. We can't give people any illusions about the LTTE, they will fuck people over if they gain control of Tamil Eelam again, another movement must replace the Tamil nationalist one.


I do not think it is in any way a farce to fight for national liberation, as Tamil oppression is real and not some "identity" invented by Sinhalese and Tamil bourgeois plotters in order to divide the workers, and therefore the demand to end it is valid.

But the demand to end it does not have to equate giving support to the idea of a Tamil nation-state, or of supporting organisations that are Tamil Nationalists. What happened in Iran shows what happens to Communists and workers' movements if we decide to give support to theocratic, nationalist or bourgeois movements.


Revolutioanries need to take the lead of that struggle, and I know that in Sri Lanka they are trying and there are a relatively good number of them with good experience - and they will not acheive this by abstaining from the existing movement (which is not just LTTE members, but is currently dependent on that organization)

Then we must build separate links away from the LTTE rather than just saying "they exist anyway and there is nothing else, therefore there is no reason to advocate something else. We should go along with what we have already", what there is already isn't good enough, I hope you would share that sentiment with me.

[la lucha sigue]

this denunciation that you call for plays into the hands of those who you claim to be firing towards. in your theoretical argument you are dooming the tamil working class to eradication. your guns, albeit political ones, are pointed directly at the ltte and the tamil people.

wise up

[Patchd]

this denunciation that you call for plays into the hands of those who you claim to be firing towards. in your theoretical argument you are dooming the tamil working class to eradication. your guns, albeit political ones, are pointed directly at the ltte and the tamil people.

wise up

Care to back that up? My guns, were I to carry any, would be pointed at the Sri Lankan state first and foremost, and on the LTTE secondly.

1) I oppose the Sri Lankan state, its an enemy of the working class.
2) I oppose the LTTE, it's an enemy of the working class.
3) Therefore I am a detriment to the Tamil working class????

That's a non sequitor, sorry. I just hope leftists stop fetishising over Nationalism.

[Zurdito]

But Palachinov, nowhere did I say we shouldn't denounce the LTTE's politics, or try to build a revolutionary resistance instead of a bourgeois nationalist one. What I said was in their existing struggles with the Sri Lankan state should support the resistance whoever leads it. This does not mean supporting the LTTE coming to power it means accepting the reality as it exists in order to intervene into it and change it. Obviously, a socialist revolution needs to go against the LTTE, but renouncing active participation in the existing resistance movement means renoucning the chance to displace them as its leaders.

As for nationalism, I am with Trotsky that the nationalism of the oppressed is not the same as the nationalism of the oppressor.