British Army: Child Sex Abuse Scandal

[Andropov]

Army child sex scandal

MoD admits 32 child sex offenders in armed forces
By Helen McArdle

THE MINISTRY of defence has revealed there are 32 registered sex offenders currently serving in the British armed forces ... after the Army failed in a bid to keep a paedophile private out of jail.

Senior commanders in Scotland's Black Watch regiment tried - and failed - to persuade a sheriff not to send the self-confessed paedophile to jail. Senior officers offered to take him on a tour of duty to Afghanistan, and to monitor his behaviour.

The sheriff rejected the intervention, and jailed the soldier, 22-year-old Private Callum Sandeman, for abusing two children. The attempted intervention, and revelations that convicted sex offenders have a safe haven in the armed forces, has now prompted accusations the Army is attempting to act "above the law". There are also fears that sex offenders could use their employment in British regiments to abuse children in conflict zones.

Sandeman admitted walking drunk into the home of a fellow soldier at Army quarters in Inverness and indecently assaulting his nine-year-old son and seven-year-old daughter in their bedrooms in November last year.

Five high-ranking officers, including the commanding officer of the 3rd Battalion Royal Regiment of Scotland Lt Col Stephen Cartwright, as well as a captain, two majors and a lieutenant, wrote letters of support for Sandeman, together with an NCO, describing him as an excellent soldier and offering to monitor his conduct if he was allowed to continue to serve in the regiment.

Highlands and Islands MSP Mary Scanlon welcomed the custodial sentence on Sandeman and described the Army's attitude to the case as "unbelieveable". She said: "The Army seems to think it's above the law. They clearly tried to keep this soldier, who had committed in the sheriff's own words reprehensible' acts against innocent children, out of prison. I am pleased the sheriff gave an appropriate sentence and sent this man to prison."

During the case at Inverness Sheriff Court, procurator-fiscal depute Ron Phillips told Sheriff Alexander Pollock that the character references put forward by Sandeman's officers contradicted the views expressed by social workers, who claimed the accused showed little remorse and even "gives the impression he projects responsibility on to his victims."

Phillips said he had "rarely seen such a weight of references before a court from men who hold fairly senior positions". He added: "They are better intended than they are well informed".

Scanlon said the Army's offer to monitor and support a convicted child molester was "the most worrying aspect" of the case. She said: "The Black Watch are now in Afghanistan. Although it may be possible to provide that support here in Inverness, how could they expect officers to provide support 24-7 when serving abroad?"

But a spokesman for the MoD defended the possibility of sex offenders being deployed abroad. "I don't think it's necessarily harder to keep track when they're in Afghanistan. There is a structure and a daily routine, it's not as if they're wandering around unguarded so don't see what being out there makes any difference.

"Yes, they will come into contact with children on patrol, but they wouldn't be alone. You have to look at the wider context. There are 180,000 serving in the British military, and only 32 are registered sex offenders."

The MoD said soldiers convicted of sex offences but not given custodial sentences would only be retained in the Army "in exceptional circumstances". The spokesman explained: "They are monitored and subject to notification requirements under the Sexual Offences Act.

"A panel assesses the soldier's employability and risk to others before any decision is taken as to whether they should be retained."

But questions are being raised over the judgement of Army commanders for attempting to retain a soldier facing a custodial sentence for serious sexual abuse on children, when governments both north and south of the border have repeatedly stressed that child protection must be at the centre of all policy.

One high-profile Scottish psychologist suggested it made a mockery of attempts to deal with child abuse when the body charged with defending and representing British interests abroad would willingly take a convicted paedophile under its wing.

Mairead Tagg, Scotland's only expert court witness on the abuse of women and children, said: "For me this is exactly the kind of collusion that per petuates sexual abuse. I think the MoD really need to be held to account for this. If they attempted to retain this soldier, and there are already 32 convicted sex offenders in the Army, you have to wonder what in God's name we've sent out to these countries. I'm sickened and appalled."

She added that it was virtually impossible to know the severity of crimes committed by those on the Sex Offenders' Register, since only rape was likely to guarantee a custodial sentence. "It's so difficult to achieve convictions that the charges are often watered down in an attempt to obtain a guilty plea."

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/her...ex_scandal.php (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2499946.0.army_child_sex_scandal.php)

[Jorge Miguel]

Haven't you heard the British army are just poor working class lads? :rolleyes: Oh no, imagine scumbags in the British army!

The sooner these people get blown out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Ireland the better.

[Pogue]

Haven't you heard the British army are just poor working class lads? :rolleyes: Oh no, imagine scumbags in the British army!

The sooner these people get blown out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Ireland the better.

There will be scumbags but fact remains there will be some people who are simply deluded. Either way we need them on-side in a revolutionary situation, and I think this is possible. Sadly I don't think we can hope on the INLA defending us against the Army come a revolutionary situation, despite the fact 5 young lads with glocks is an intimidating sight for any proffesional soldier.

[Matina]

Haven't you heard the British army are just poor working class lads? http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_rolleyes.gif Oh no, imagine scumbags in the British army!

The sooner these people get blown out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Ireland the better.

You're such an idealist. The army always splits on class lines, in a revolutionary situation. Those who you call scumbags and put them in the same category as the real-scumbags in the British Army, will be among the bravest fighters in the revolution. Without that part of the Army the revolution is condemned to failure.

Haven't you read about the October and 1905 revolutions, or any other revolution for that matter? A big part of the army always joins the working class and the revolution in times of crisis. But for that we need agitation in the army etc. If we had more leftists like you, that would mean a catastrophe. Thankfully not many people are such ignorant fools.

[piet11111]

throw him in jail then give his fellow soldiers a chance to show their opinion about child rapists.

[Jorge Miguel]

There will be scumbags but fact remains there will be some people who are simply deluded.Deluded about what? Are "our boys in uniform" some sort of beacon for opressed people with a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of them?


Either way we need them on-side in a revolutionary situation, and I think this is possible.As evidenced by what? Will the British army change from an instrument of class and national oppression to something different? In my own country, Iraq, Afghanistan and countless other places they are responsible for war crimes and should leave immediatly. Far from changing sides in any revolutionary situation, in Ireland they fulfilled their standard role - more often than not exceeding what was expected of them in terms of brutality.


Sadly I don't think we can hope on the INLA defending us against the Army come a revolutionary situationI'm not a member of the INLA, nor is any member of this forum. I'm not even a member of the IRSP. So what's the relevence? I would sooner trust my life in the hands of the INLA than a load of crusty lifestylist anarchists. The fact is that Communists need to be armed.


despite the fact 5 young lads with glocks is an intimidating sight for any proffesional soldier.What?

[Jorge Miguel]

A big part of the army always joins the working class and the revolution in times of crisis.
Ah yes, like the British did in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Ireland, India, Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. :rolleyes:

[Matina]

Ah yes, like the British did in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Ireland, India, Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

When was there a revolution in those places?

But even if there was I was talking about a revolution in Britain itself. I don't think internationalists, who understand the impact a revolution would have, have the opinion you do on the British army. ie that it is not affected by class forces. Maybe it's because you are a petit-bourgeois nationalist (ie stalinist) and not a real communist.http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_rolleyes.gif

[Sean]

As much as I have contempt for the British Army, I can't think of a better place to put paedophiles, rapists and murderers. While there is the issue of it just being a job that the working class can do, it should come as no suprise that sick fucks and misfits driven out of their communities hide out in the armed forces sometimes.

[Andropov]

despite the fact 5 young lads with glocks is an intimidating sight for any proffesional soldier.

Read up on operation Demetrius on the 9th of August 1971.
You may mock those who fought against Imperialism in my country but your glorious Imperial occupiers were still unable to defeat the PIRA or INLA.

[Jorge Miguel]

When was there a revolution in those places? History does not proceed along pre-defined ideological lines. There have been and continue to be "revolutionary situations" (your words) in the countries I listed, in which the British army did not side with the revolutionary forces but instead fulfilled their obligations and more.

Peoples' suffering under national opression have launched armed struggles in persuit of national liberation. In some cases they have won and booted the British army out for good along with their array of financial and political interests.

The people of Afghanistan and Iraq are fighting at present to attain national liberation. Political power for Afghanistan and Iraq can only come as a result of national liberation. What role does the British army play in those countries? How many British soldiers have "went over"?


But even if there was I was talking about a revolution in Britain itself.I'm not British but I live in a country in which 5,000 foreign British soldiers are stationed as a garrasion.

What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when British soldiers were murdering Irish child on Irish streets?

Why did the British army exceed what was expected of them from their officers in terms of brutality? Particularly against women and children.


have the opinion you do on the British army. ie that it is not affected by class forces.You're speaking on my behalf. Of course the British army is affected by class forces, it is an instrument of class oppression and one which is used to subvert the working class movment and national liberation forces the world over.


Maybe it's because you are a petit-bourgeois nationalist (ie stalinist) and not a real communist.http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/001_rolleyes.gifAh. That old chestnut. Better a petit-bourgeois nationalist than someone who defends the right of pedophiles as potential revolutionaries. :D

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

History does not proceed along pre-defined ideological lines. There have been and continue to be "revolutionary situations" (your words) in the countries I listed, in which the British army did not side with the revolutionary forces but instead fulfilled their obligations and more.

Apart from the mass desertions its much harder to mutiniy when theres civil unrest in another country then your own. The main reason why working class low ranking troops are likely to mutiniy is the lack of desire to shoot there friends and family. No one is arguing that the army are some kind of revolutionary elite but rather that if they dont mutiny chances are there will need to be a long and bloody campaign which we may not win.



What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when British soldiers were murdering Irish child on Irish streets?


Nationalism- its shit as if the nationality of children makes them any more or less worthy of having there skulls blown up as does the street that the event takes place. Not to mention the person defending them must obviously only be moved to defend them because they themselves were born in the same border.






Ah. That old chestnut. Better a petit-bourgeois nationalist than someone who defends the right of pedophiles as potential revolutionaries. :D

As if every British solider feels the urge to crack one off when the pampers advert comes on.

[Jorge Miguel]

Nationalism- its shit as if the nationality of children makes them any more or less worthy of having there skulls blown up as does the street that the event takes place. Not to mention the person defending them must obviously only be moved to defend them because they themselves were born in the same border.This fails to address the question.

[Pogue]

Read up on operation Demetrius on the 9th of August 1971.
You may mock those who fought against Imperialism in my country but your glorious Imperial occupiers were still unable to defeat the PIRA or INLA.

I love how you assume that they are 'my' imperial occupiers.

[Pogue]

Deluded about what? Are "our boys in uniform" some sort of beacon for opressed people with a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of them?

As evidenced by what? Will the British army change from an instrument of class and national oppression to something different? In my own country, Iraq, Afghanistan and countless other places they are responsible for war crimes and should leave immediatly. Far from changing sides in any revolutionary situation, in Ireland they fulfilled their standard role - more often than not exceeding what was expected of them in terms of brutality.

I'm not a member of the INLA, nor is any member of this forum. I'm not even a member of the IRSP. So what's the relevence? I would sooner trust my life in the hands of the INLA than a load of crusty lifestylist anarchists. The fact is that Communists need to be armed.

What?

No, communists don't need to be armed, the working class do. The INLA failed miserably in being armed and didn't acheive their purpose, taking down a few innocent civilians down along the way. Did they defeat imperialism? No. So they failed.

Those are your quotes around boys in uniform. They're not 'my boy's'. I understand what role they perform but I don't think its because they're all psychos. I also note how when revolutions have succeeded, its because the army has come on side, i.e. the army has become part of the movement.

I wouldn't trust my life in the hands of the INLA. They've proven to be quite incompetent, and I dobut they'd give a shit about my life in one of their brave attacks on imperialism.

Oncemore, congratulations on the lifestylist anarchist bit. I won't even try to figure out what the crusty part refers to. We're not all cringingly perverted freaks like you so crusty would seem somewhat baseless an insult, but I'd suggest you don't have a clue what your on about. I'm not going to ask you to explain, because I doubt you can find the time between wanking off over pictures of provos posing with AKs and being the pinnacle of revolutionary conciousness. I'll be off at the Enfield factory occupation tommorow, no doubt you'll be writing up some article for Saoirse or some other nationalist rag about how we should erect a statue of Stalin up where the Droppin Well was or something similar.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

This fails to address the question.

I think its an indicator of your nationalist politics.

[Jorge Miguel]

No, communists don't need to be armed, the working class do.Where are those guns going to come from?


The INLA failed miserably in being armed and didn't acheive their purpose, taking down a few innocent civilians down along the way. Did they defeat imperialism? No. So they failed.
Exactly. So did the Anarchists in Spain, who also murdered innocent civilians. But that is entirely subjective, the real issue was objective factors.


Those are your quotes around boys in uniform. They're not 'my boy's'.
Then why do you consistently defend them against oppressed people?


I also note how when revolutions have succeeded, its because the army has come on side, i.e. the army has become part of the movement.In some instances this has been the case but it is absolutely dangerous and diasterious to dogmatically import "models" from Russia, etc. Have the established state armies came over to the side of revolution recently? Perhaps with the exception of Chavez, there is little evidence of this. It has been the concious and armed actions of the working class and national liberation organisations which has resisted imperialism Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, etc and seized power, Nepal in particular.

The British army has consistently served the opposite role from the envisaged hypothetical situation which dogmatists cling to.



Oncemore, congratulations on the lifestylist anarchist bit. I won't even try to figure out what the crusty part refers to. We're not all cringingly perverted freaks like you so crusty would seem somewhat baseless an insult, but I'd suggest you don't have a clue what your on about. I'm not going to ask you to explain, because I doubt you can find the time between wanking off over pictures of provos posing with AKs and being the pinnacle of revolutionary conciousness. I'll be off at the Enfield factory occupation tommorow, no doubt you'll be writing up some article for Saoirse or some other nationalist rag about how we should erect a statue of Stalin up where the Droppin Well was or something similar.The hillarity of this is that RSF has a bigger base and has mobilised more people in Ireland than Anarchism ever has and will. :laugh: Irish anarchists are treated with the outright contempt they absolutely deserve so take a step down from the ivory tower there love.

[Jorge Miguel]

I think its an indicator of your nationalist politics.No, its a cop out which avoids the question.

What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

Infiltrate them and spread Anarcho-Trot propaganda? Yeah, that's likely.

[Pogue]

Where are those guns going to come from?

The factories and barracks we occupy.


Exactly. So did the Anarchists in Spain, who also murdered innocent civilians. But that is entirely subjective, the real issue was subjective factors.

Link, source?


Then why do you consistently defend them against oppressed people?

When have I ever done this, except in that dark area of your mind in between the memories of your cat abusing past and thinking of the next cringy, pervy time when you can call someone 'babe' on an internet forum?


In some instances this has been the case but it is absolutely dangerous and diasterious to dogmatically import "models" from Russia, etc. Have the established state armies came over to the side of revolution recently? Perhaps with the exception of Chavez, there is little evidence of this. It has been the concious and armed actions of the working class which has resisted imperialism and seized power, Nepal in particular.

The British army has consistently served the opposite role from the envisaged hypothetical situation which dogmatists cling to.


Nepal is not a revolution, nor is Chavez in Venezuela, but anyways. The British Army as an institution is shit, but that does not mean everyone inside of it is an reactionary arsehole who will never side with the people.


The hillarity of this is that RSF has a bigger base and has mobilised more people in Ireland than Anarchism ever has and will. http://www.revleft.com/vb/british-army-child-t105732/revleft/smilies2/lol.gif Take a step down from the ivory tower there love.

Its not really hilarious. Many people have the false conciousness that draws them towards nationalist organisations. Anarchists hope to change this. I think the true tragedy of people trusting statist nationalist organisations will become obvious when your nationali libertarion heroes betray the workers as every other national liberation movement which has vied for state control and 'independence' has.

Could you stop referring to me with those pervey terms like 'love' and 'babe'? Its not only disturbing and somewhat sick, but it makes you look like a pathetic internet paedophile type who likes to talk to people they don't even know like they want to date rape them.

[Pogue]

No, its a cop out which avoids the question.

What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

Infiltrate them and spread Anarcho-Trot propaganda? Yeah, that's likely.

You can defend people without resorting to bourgeoisie ideology such as nationalism. Your just getting all emotional now, because you're losing. No one is against people defending themselves against aggresion, but we can see beyond the tricolour curtain so we realise that it doesn't matter where the people waving the guns and batons come from.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Where are those guns going to come from?

Probably from the vast stockpiles newspaper sellers have. Or prehaps from abroad expecially foregin countries who have a short term intrest in a revolution in a certain area of the world.




In some instances this has been the case but it is absolutely dangerous and diasterious to dogmatically import "models" from Russia, etc. Have the established state armies came over to the side of revolution recently?

What revolution? You know damn well that armied only tend to muntiny on "home soil" so its nothing to get your pants jizzed up about.


Perhaps with the exception of Chavez, there is little evidence of this. It has been the concious and armed actions of the working class which has resisted imperialism and seized power, Nepal in particular.

Were talking about the first world were the armies are much better trained , funded and armed. I dont belive that its impossible to defeat the army with civilain insurgancy but it will cause a long and bloody campagin which can be avoided by a mutiny.




The hillarity of this is that RSF has a bigger base and has mobilised more people in Ireland than Anarchism ever has and will. :laugh: Take a step down from the ivory tower there love.

And in Germany nazism has mobalized more folk then leninism I fully expect you to done your fetish night outfit because obviously the amount of people you can mobalize is an indicator of if your a reactionary hack or not. :rolleyes:

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

No, its a cop out which avoids the question.

What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

Infiltrate them and spread Anarcho-Trot propaganda? Yeah, that's likely.

Here we go with the anarcho-trots again. I think the alterntive is to defend your communities while following a communist agenda and as if the fact that you empthise the nationalities of the streets , the children and the lack of irishness of the army kind of shows your true politics.

[Jorge Miguel]

The factories and barracks we occupy.How will that happen if there is no mechanism to facilitate that vis-a-vis guns and organisation?


Link, source?Are you denying that the Anarchists in Spain murdered a single innocent civilian, even by mistake?


When have I ever done thisIn this thread and elsewhere you cling to the illusion that the British army can be transformed into some sort of instrument of proletarian power against "reactionary nationalists".


Nepal is not a revolution, nor is Chavez in Venezuela, but anyways. Revolutionary situations do not proceed according to pre-defined ideological lines. The primary contradiction, i.e. who owns the means of production, in Venezuela and Nepal still needs to be resolved but to deny the existance of a revolutionary situation in both countries is quite baffling. Neither of those situations conforms to how I'd like to see things develop ideally but it's not up to me sitting in Ireland to impose external conditions in the Nepalese or Venezuelean working masses.


The British Army as an institution is shit, but that does not mean everyone inside of it is an reactionary arsehole who will never side with the people.But no one can point to a contemporary example were the British army or elements of has sided with the oppressed people. 1905 and 1917 in Russia are quite different to the national liberation struggles the British army seeks to defeat today.


Its not really hilarious.Yes, it is. You're preaching from an ivory tower as if the people are going to flock to Anarchism one day when the Anarchists in Ireland are in a worse position than organisations such as RSF.


Its not only disturbing and somewhat sick, but it makes you look like a pathetic internet paedophile type who likes to talk to people they don't even know like they want to date rape them.No worries hunnybuns.

[Jorge Miguel]

You can defend people without resorting to bourgeoisie ideology such as nationalism. Your just getting all emotional now, because you're losing. No one is against people defending themselves against aggresion, but we can see beyond the tricolour curtain so we realise that it doesn't matter where the people waving the guns and batons come from.What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

[Jorge Miguel]

Here we go with the anarcho-trots again. I think the alterntive is to defend your communities while following a communist agenda and as if the fact that you empthise the nationalities of the streets , the children and the lack of irishness of the army kind of shows your true politics.
How about addressing the question? What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

[Pogue]

Yes, it is. You're preaching from an ivory tower as if the people are going to flock to Anarchism one day when the Anarchists in Ireland are in a worse position than organisations such as RSF.


Anarchists are not about people flocking to them. We don't fetishise power like you lot.


Are you denying that the Anarchists in Spain murdered a single innocent civilian, even by mistake?

I'll take this to mean you have no evidence.


In this thread and elsewhere you cling to the illusion that the British army can be transformed into some sort of instrument of proletarian power against "reactionary nationalists".

So oncemore, an opinion, not a direct link. Your failing as badly as the INLA!


Revolutionary situations do not proceed according to pre-defined ideological lines. The primary contradiction, i.e. who owns the means of production, in Venezuela and Nepal still needs to be resolved but to deny the existance of a revolutionary situation in both countries is quite baffling. Neither of those situations conforms to how I'd like to see things develop ideally but it's not up to me sitting in Ireland to impose external conditions in the Nepalese or Venezuelean working masses.


We call it social democracy, reformism, selling out, class collaborationism, etc.


But no one can point to a contemporary example were the British army or elements of has sided with the oppressed people. 1905 and 1917 in Russia are quite different to the national liberation struggles the British army seeks to defeat today.

No one can point to a national libertation struggle that has led to a worker run society. You still mindlessly puruse it.


No worries hunnybuns.

Did daddy abuse you as a child?

[Pogue]

How about addressing the question? What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

Erm, he just addressed that, idiot. Can't you read?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

How about addressing the question? What was the option for Irish revolutionaries when Irish children were murdered on Irish streets by a foreign army?

Act like communists. Not nationalistic fucktards whom bang on about your "irsh children" and the "foregin army". As if non irish children getting killed by a non foregin army makes child killing any more acebtable.

But no really you should be spreading class consiousness and setting up organizations that defend the working class communities from child killers* whilst uniting the working class along class lines instead of moronic nationalism.

* because you know members of your communities going to the crematorium is bad not on any "get out of my lovely country dirty foreigner" motives.

Guess what - the workers still have no country no matter if your pure and wonderful irish children are getting caped or not buy the foregin barbarain

[Jorge Miguel]

Act like communists. Not nationalistic fucktards whom bang on about your "irsh children" and the "foregin army". As if non irish children getting killed by a non foregin army makes child killing any more acebtable.No Irish child would have been murdered had Britain not been occupying a part of Ireland. This occupation from the 70s until the 90s took the form of the direct involvement of British soldiers on the streets - how many of these soldiers came over to the side of the Irish?

Not a single British soldier showed this revolutionary genie that they've got inside bursting to get out. Pluto Press published a book called 'Only Our Rivers...' which details the brutality of British soldiers towards Irish women and children. What they did here they are doing around the world in even greater and more horrific proportions.

The British were complicate in destroying the workers movement, not just the national movement, particularly the Limerick Soviet in 1919.

These are the real issues, not a metaphysical concept of nationality dangling in mid-air.



But no really you should be spreading class consiousness and setting up organizations that defend the working class communities from child killers* whilst uniting the working class along class lines instead of moronic nationalism.How and why? How was it possible to challange British imperialism by defending working class communities yet unite the working class? One section of the working class were had a natural affinity with Britain, they even opposed the civil rights movement nevermind armed action in defense of working class communities.

What happens, say, if this had been successful? The state would evaporate and we'd all live happily?


* because you know members of your communities going to the crematorium is bad not on any "get out of my lovely country dirty foreigner" motives.They wouldn't be dead had Britain not been here.

[Bitter Ashes]

I'm honestly not that suprised. There are a few sick bastards who infilrate the army. It does suprise me though that sex offenders join. I mean, there's not many women or kids around for them to attack in the army and that's pretty much common knowledge. Still, whether it's them hiding out, or trying to reform themselves, they're still there, just like every other industry.

At the end of the day though, this was a crime committed against two civilians and should be handled by the civilian criminal justice system first and foremost. After that the RMP can have him and tbh, he'll probably be begging to be in civvy jail then.

I'm not sure what more the army could have done to prevent the whole situation though. If he'd committed crimes in civvy street then it would have been discovered during recruitment and most likely, at least his Captain would have been informed. The Captain's a bit stuck then. The Lientenants couldnt organise a pissup in a brewary, so they cant be relied on to keep an eye on this soldier and if the enlisted soldiers heard it'd cause such a shitstorm that it would totaly destroy every shred of morale in the unit. So, all this Captain can do is make sure that the guy is kept tabs on when they're aware that this guy is around women, or kids. One person cant be everywhere at once though and that's when stuff like this happens I guess. It's more than what civilian employers can/will do to though.

[Andropov]

I love how you assume that they are 'my' imperial occupiers.

I assumed since you seem to spend half your time on here defending murdering imperial soldiers.

[Andropov]

No one can point to a national libertation struggle that has led to a worker run society. You still mindlessly puruse it.

Cuba's revolution was also fought along National Liberation lines.
Also there was an element of the National Liberation struggle evident in the NVA/Vietcongs campaign.
Just two off the top of my head.
Now my great proletarian champion could you please point me in the direction of some Anarchist Revolutions that led to a worker run society that lasted longer than one of your wet dreams.

[Andropov]

I'll take this to mean you have no evidence.

So you are actually denying that any innocents were killed either inntentially or unintentially by Anarchists during the Spanish Civil War?
I suppose all those Anarchists just fell on top of Nuns and somehow penetrated them and fell on top of them again and again.
Since your picking out isolated incidents and subjective arguments as a way to sling mud at the Irish National Liberation struggle we can use isolated incidents and subjective arguements to slander the Anarchists struggle in Spain.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I would hardly call the clergy innocent.

[Pogue]

Cuba's revolution was also fought along National Liberation lines.
Also there was an element of the National Liberation struggle evident in the NVA/Vietcongs campaign.
Just two off the top of my head.
Now my great proletarian champion could you please point me in the direction of some Anarchist Revolutions that led to a worker run society that lasted longer than one of your wet dreams.

Neither of those revolutions created socialism. Move on.

[Pogue]

So you are actually denying that any innocents were killed either inntentially or unintentially by Anarchists during the Spanish Civil War?
I suppose all those Anarchists just fell on top of Nuns and somehow penetrated them and fell on top of them again and again.
Since your picking out isolated incidents and subjective arguments as a way to sling mud at the Irish National Liberation struggle we can use isolated incidents and subjective arguements to slander the Anarchists struggle in Spain.

Link, evidence?

[Pogue]

I assumed since you seem to spend half your time on here defending murdering imperial soldiers.

Link please?

[Andropov]

I would hardly call the clergy innocent.

This is precious.
The trendy left in Britain who berate the Irish National Liberation movement on the innocents that got caught up in warfare are actually condoning the rape of Nuns?
FFS, says it all really.

[Andropov]

Neither of those revolutions created socialism. Move on.

A form of Socialism in Cuba, with some limited Free Market reforms out of necessity due to the special period.
Its not a Socialist Utopia but then again I live in the real world and can recognise the context of the revolution.
Now some Anarchist examples?

[Andropov]

Link, evidence?

http://books.google.com/books?id=GbXjCB4wzL8C&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=spanish+anarchists+rape+nuns&source=bl&ots=M_t0ehskBu&sig=VyLj861m3zEwWwdr7eEwZud0z5Y&hl=en&ei=-ZjaSbvXD5L2_Aa_ycSTCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

[Pogue]

http://books.google.com/books?id=GbXjCB4wzL8C&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=spanish+anarchists+rape+nuns&source=bl&ots=M_t0ehskBu&sig=VyLj861m3zEwWwdr7eEwZud0z5Y&hl=en&ei=-ZjaSbvXD5L2_Aa_ycSTCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Broken link, try it again.

I can't believe you actually typed a search for that.

[Andropov]

Link please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_TEMt6pbUs

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

This is precious.
The trendy left in Britain who berate the Irish National Liberation movement on the innocents that got caught up in warfare are actually condoning the rape of Nuns?
FFS, says it all really.

Trendy lefty? Fuck you and your nationlistic wank fantasy's some of us here are communists because we want to improve our lives that that of our friends , family and communities not because we are driven be a nationlist hard on. The rape was unjustified (source?) but I have no objection to the nuns being killed.

[Pogue]

Its working now.

I'd like to see his sources for that.

[Andropov]

Broken link, try it again.

I can't believe you actually typed a search for that.

http://books.google.com/books?id=GbXjCB4wzL8C&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=spanish+anarchists+rape+nuns&source=bl&ots=M_t0ehsmDn&sig=LVLX0CuxcqsJlMieDhmqb-d6pko&hl=en&ei=zpnaSf26BIu4_AaFo62SCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

[Andropov]

Trendy lefty? Fuck you and your nationlistic wank fantasy's some of us here are communists because we want to improve our lives that that of our friends , family and communities not because we are driven be a nationlist hard on.
Your not a Communist, your a fashion statment.



The rape was unjustified (source?) but I have no objection to the nuns being killed.
Could you explain to me why you feel the murder of Nuns was justified?

[Andropov]

Its working now.

I'd like to see his sources for that.

Id like you to answer my questions now.

[Pogue]

Your not a Communist, your a fashion statment.



Could you explain to me why you feel the murder of Nuns was justified?

Likewise with the people in the Droppin Well pub?

And what was Alun Kenwood's source?

And what the fuck is a fashion statement? Do we all have to love states and Stalin to be communists now? You make me sick, with your arogant shit.

[Pogue]

A form of Socialism in Cuba, with some limited Free Market reforms out of necessity due to the special period.
Its not a Socialist Utopia but then again I live in the real world and can recognise the context of the revolution.
Now some Anarchist examples?

Anarchist Spain 1936.

[Jorge Miguel]

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/stalin-laugh.jpg

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Your not a Communist, your a fashion statment.

Oh yes , so i am. :rolleyes:





Could you explain to me why you feel the murder of Nuns was justified?


Well if your part of an organization that locks itself in a church and fires at people walking past , dont expect people to be nice to you.

[Pogue]

I'd also note, how one historian claims some anarchists commited crimes of that nature. Who sanctioned those crimes? Were those crimes part of anarchist 'policy' at the time? Clearly not. Do we even know that those individuals who suppoedely commited these crimes were anarchists? No. They (the spanish anarchists) opposed such things. Did you not know about the womens liberation that happened during that period?

Was it INLA policy to attack civilians? Yes, it was. Thats why they did it, sanctioned by their leadership.

[Jorge Miguel]

I'd also note, how one historian claims some anarchists commited crimes of that nature. Who sanctioned those crimes? Were those crimes part of anarchist 'policy' at the time? Clearly not. Do we even know that those individuals who suppoedely commited these crimes were anarchists? No. They (the spanish anarchists) opposed such things. Did you not know about the womens liberation that happened during that period?

Was it INLA policy to attack civilians? Yes, it was. Thats why they did it, sanctioned by their leadership.
How can you uphold one subjective analysis yet disregard another?

[Andropov]

Likewise with the people in the Droppin Well pub?
Likewise what?


And what was Alun Kenwood's source?
Not my problem.


And what the fuck is a fashion statement? Do we all have to love states and Stalin to be communists now?

Trendy lefties like yourself and CJ.
Nope you dont have to love states or love stalin but you do have to take your head out of your arse and realise their is never any perfect revolution or any perfect set of circumstances, a true Communist must adapt to the context they find themselves in, something you are unable to do as you are to content preaching from your soapbox about pure Revolution when in all likely hood the closest you've got to the working class was when your butler dropped you off to Public School.


You make me sick, with your arogant shit.
And you make me laugh, you are a joke.
Go play cricket or what ever you did before you started rebelling against Mammy and Daddy.

BTW HLVS you still havnt answered my questions.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

As much as I have contempt for the British Army, I can't think of a better place to put paedophiles, rapists and murderers. While there is the issue of it just being a job that the working class can do, it should come as no suprise that sick fucks and misfits driven out of their communities hide out in the armed forces sometimes.

:confused: I don't follow you.

"Hey, the psychiatrist just diagnosed that you have severe mental issues, ranging from an inability to control your anger to forcing your seed on little children....

So, with that in mind, we're going to give you this M16 and give you the authority to use it at your discretion. Go get 'em champ!"

Or do you mean that the military draws those kind of people, not that you, personally, hope they go there?

[Andropov]

Anarchist Spain 1936.

I said a Revolution that lasted longer than your wet dreams.
Is that really all you got?

[Andropov]

Well if your part of an organization that locks itself in a church and fires at people walking past , dont expect people to be nice to you.

So those nuns that were raped and murdered had actually barricaded themselves in a Church and had started fireing on pedestrians?
Anyways this is all getting silly, I was making the point you cannot take isolated incidents from any Revolutionary situation out of context and use it for subjective arguements for your own agenda.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

when in all likely hood the closest you've got to the working class was when your butler dropped you off to Public School.



:laugh: anyone who isnt a nationalist* is obviously a public school boy (my schools pass rate is pethetic because the local public schools employ all the good staff and teachers).

Oh and rebeling against a communist father by becoming a communist dosent really work im afraid.


* Communists are internationalists if anyone is wondering.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

So those nuns that were raped and murdered had actually barricaded themselves in a Church and had started fireing on pedestrians?

They certanly made no effort to disassociate themselves.

[Andropov]

Was it INLA policy to attack civilians? Yes, it was. Thats why they did it, sanctioned by their leadership.

Really?
Grasping at straws now.
Your own contradictions amuse me as you descend ever further into this ***** fit of yours.
You ridicule me for my sources and yet you do not feel it necessary to supply sources for your outrageous claims.
I would almost be offended by the blatant hypocricy if I actually took you serious.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

***** fit

:rolleyes:

So nationlism + sexism if you bundel some homophobia and racism in there you will have a record that the BNP would be proud of

[Andropov]

:laugh: anyone who isnt a nationalist* is obviously a public school boy (my schools pass rate is pethetic because the local public schools employ all the good staff and teachers).

Oh and rebeling against a communist father by becoming a communist dosent really work im afraid.


* Communists are internationalists if anyone is wondering.

I'll have to say im impressed by your working class credentials but that comment was actually directed at HLVS.
He reeks of Boureoisie.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

He reeks of Bourgeoisie.

Agreed he,s the kind of Bourgeoisie **** who spends his free time helping workers occupying there factories.

And thats the worst kind of Bourgeoisie **** there is.

:laugh:

[Andropov]

:rolleyes:

So nationlism + sexism if you bundel some homophobia and racism in there you will have a record that the BNP would be proud of

Im not a nationalist im a believer in an occupied peoples right to self determination.
I was refering to a female dog in heat, dont you know.
I really dont see how that equates with sexism.
In fact HLVS made some pretty tasteless remarks about peadophilia directed at Jorge Miguel that were fairly disgusting.
Asking him was he molested by his father, as if it were comical.
Is that what passes as acceptable in the British trendy left now a days?

[Pogue]

Likewise what?


Not my problem.



Trendy lefties like yourself and CJ.
Nope you dont have to love states or love stalin but you do have to take your head out of your arse and realise their is never any perfect revolution or any perfect set of circumstances, a true Communist must adapt to the context they find themselves in, something you are unable to do as you are to content preaching from your soapbox about pure Revolution when in all likely hood the closest you've got to the working class was when your butler dropped you off to Public School.


And you make me laugh, you are a joke.
Go play cricket or what ever you did before you started rebelling against Mammy and Daddy.

BTW HLVS you still havnt answered my questions.

I have no real desire to answer you loaded quesitons, but seeing as we're getting into the name calling...

What is it with you Republican Socialist types? Why are you all so bitter on this forum? You have the same angry, condescending 'true heroes of the revolution' sort of attitudes. Its wierd really. I guess nationalism does that shit to you.

What defines a trendy leftie? Do you have anything beyond baseless insults which even you don't know the meaning of? Or are you just bitter because the working class of Ireland thinks your politics are aload of fucking shit and you're all too busy fetishising past struggles conducted by men and women of much more worth than yourselves? Lets face it, your in the IRSP becaus you're fucking bitter that your politics are unappealing but you're too fucking cowardly to actually pick up a gun yourself, so you just cheerlead like the useless old twat that you are. Well fucking done, but I'd rather spend my time in community and workplace organising than getting all happy when some brainwashed 17 year old shoots someone down in Ireland much to the disgust of a population who've had it with mindless violence.

So I have a butler? Whatever. Your so supportive of violence in Ireland, i wouldn't be suprised if your the sort of rich 'republican' **** who can stand on the sidelines and encourage others to take up arms because at the end of the day, you've got a plane flight booked over to Britain as soon as the violence kicks off, because your in it to look cool, not to get involved in genuine politics. Pathetic.

Mummy and daddy eh? Rebelling? I have nothing to rebel against. I have two working class parents who are both left wing who got me into left wing politics. What have you got? I bet you've either got too unresponsive nationalistic mugs like yourself who beat you as a kiddie. And you vented your frustrations by wanking off to videos of the CIRA 'training' for combat in a forest somewhere. You even failed in trying to compare the INLA to the Spanish Anarchists. Difference: theres concrete evidence for the INLA butchering members of the working class alongside the British Army, and the leadership supporting. Nothing was sanctioned, supported or called for, or even proved, with the Anarchists. Well fucking played.

Now waddle off back to your pile of history books where you belong, before your presence embarasses socialism any longer.

[Andropov]

Agreed he,s the kind of Bourgeoisie **** who spends his free time helping workers occupying there factories.

And thats the worst kind of Bourgeoisie **** there is.

:laugh:

As HLVS would say, Links please?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

As HLVS would say, Links please?

You can find the appropriate thread on revleft i cant be arsed to dig it out.

[Pogue]

I'll have to say im impressed by your working class credentials but that comment was actually directed at HLVS.
He reeks of Boureoisie.

Yeh whatever mate, thats why I'm involved in anarchist politics and the factory occupation.

I bet you're out there on the front line every night with boys fighting the British Army aren't you? Fuck it, I can see you know, you're probably in the fucking TA reserves to fulfill your little weapons fetish. Scum.

[Pogue]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/britain-visteon-workers-t105349/index2.html

Theres Levellers Standard mentioning how I was there.

Happy now? Or am I still bourgeoisie, of the sort who spends their spare time doing this sort of stuff?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Im not a nationalist im a believer in an occupied peoples right to self determination.

There our irish children and what should irish revolutionaries do on our irish streets when those foregin armies shoot them. ~ nationalist
[QUOTE=Red Revolutionary;1406017
I was refering to a female dog in heat, dont you know.
I really dont see how that equates with sexism.
[/QUOTE]

Well the phrase ***** funnily enough in 21st century language is a sexist phrase when used to describe someone. If you use the word "***** fit" to describe a dog in heat you probably should have died of old age in the 50s

[Andropov]

What is it with you Republican Socialist types? Why are you all so bitter on this forum? You have the same angry, condescending 'true heroes of the revolution' sort of attitudes. Its wierd really. I guess nationalism does that shit to you.
Not really, just that its enjoyable to be condescending when you are dealing with an absolute fanatcist.
The walter mitty of Socialism.


What defines a trendy leftie? Do you have anything beyond baseless insults which even you don't know the meaning of? Or are you just bitter because the working class of Ireland thinks your politics are aload of fucking shit and you're all too busy fetishising past struggles conducted by men and women of much more worth than yourselves? Lets face it, your in the IRSP becaus you're fucking bitter that your politics are unappealing but you're too fucking cowardly to actually pick up a gun yourself, so you just cheerlead like the useless old twat that you are. Well fucking done, but I'd rather spend my time in community and workplace organising than getting all happy when some brainwashed 17 year old shoots someone down in Ireland much to the disgust of a population who've had it with mindless violence.
I love reading this trendy left drivel when the IRSP has the biggest working class support out of any other left wing party in Ireland.
Nope I dont fetish about past struggles, just I recognise good Socialists when I see them.
I dont cheerlead violence, links please?


So I have a butler? Whatever. Your so supportive of violence in Ireland, i wouldn't be suprised if your the sort of rich 'republican' **** who can stand on the sidelines and encourage others to take up arms because at the end of the day, you've got a plane flight booked over to Britain as soon as the violence kicks off, because your in it to look cool, not to get involved in genuine politics. Pathetic.
Hah I think that says it all, about how out of touch you really are.
Republicanism is disdained by the rich in Ireland, hence why places lik the bog and ardoyne etc are all working class communities.


Mummy and daddy eh? Rebelling? I have nothing to rebel against. I have two working class parents who are both left wing who got me into left wing politics. What have you got? I bet you've either got too unresponsive nationalistic mugs like yourself who beat you as a kiddie. And you vented your frustrations by wanking off to videos of the CIRA 'training' for combat in a forest somewhere. You even failed in trying to compare the INLA to the Spanish Anarchists. Difference: theres concrete evidence for the INLA butchering members of the working class alongside the British Army, and the leadership supporting. Nothing was sanctioned, supported or called for, or even proved, with the Anarchists. Well fucking played.
Your really not that good at this abuse thing, id almost hazard to say I respect your politics more, ALMOST.
I think its kind of sick that you so freely mock domestic violence against kids though, thats just wrong.
Links to this solid evidence against the INLA?


Now waddle off back to your pile of history books where you belong, before your presence embarasses socialism any longer.
Funny......:blushing:

[Andropov]

There our irish children and what should irish revolutionaries do on our irish streets when those foregin armies shoot them. ~ nationalist
I didnt say the above quote, so irrelevant post.



Well the phrase ***** funnily enough in 21st century language is a sexist phrase when used to describe someone. If you use the word "***** fit" to describe a dog in heat you probably should have died of old age in the 50s
Not where im from, it means a female dog in heat.
Im glad we have cleared up that misunderstanding.
Now could you please address HLVS mocking peadophilia against kids and domestic violence against kids, such blatant disregaurd for child welfare is shocking.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Being the biggest left wing party in ireland is hardly an achievement as i said on another thread its like having the largest cock despite yourself and everyone in the room requiring tweezers to wank off.

[Andropov]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/britain-visteon-workers-t105349/index2.html

Theres Levellers Standard mentioning how I was there.

Happy now? Or am I still bourgeoisie, of the sort who spends their spare time doing this sort of stuff?

How can I be sure about his character?
Im afraid I will need more sources than that.
Link please?

[Andropov]

Yeh whatever mate, thats why I'm involved in anarchist politics and the factory occupation.

I bet you're out there on the front line every night with boys fighting the British Army aren't you? Fuck it, I can see you know, you're probably in the fucking TA reserves to fulfill your little weapons fetish. Scum.

I know your pretty clueless about Ireland but the INLA have been on a ceasefire for over a decade.

[Andropov]

Being the biggest left wing party in ireland is hardly an achievement as i said on another thread its like having the largest cock despite yourself and everyone in the room requiring tweezers to wank off.

That is true.
But its a point that cannot be missed when being mocked by trendy lefties when they themselves here are irrelevant.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

How can I be sure about his character?


LV is generally accepted as someone who is super active and down to earth. I really see no reason why H-V-L-S needs to prove weather he was at the occupations or not to an armchair nationalist wank fantasist.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

But its a point that cannot be missed when being mocked by trendy lefties when they themselves here are irrelevant.

We never claimed to currently big a strong poltical force. We're just saying that you and your shitty party are a bunch of hacks.

[Andropov]

LV is generally accepted as someone who is super active and down to earth. I really see no reason why H-V-L-S needs to prove weather he was at the occupations or not to an armchair nationalist wank fantasist.

Generally accepted by you and your click.
Not by sources I can confirm with.
He deosnt "need" to but he has a preoccupation with sources so I thought I would keep the debate on a level playing field.

[Andropov]

We never claimed to currently big a strong poltical force. We're just saying that you and your shitty party are a bunch of hacks.

Maybe we are a shitty party and a bunch of hacks.
But at least we are relevant to the working class here.

[Jorge Miguel]

But at least we are relevant to the working class here.This. Although my differences with the IRSP are well known, no one can dispute the fact they have strong inroads in some working class areas that other organisations could only dream of.

[Pogue]

Your really not that good at this abuse thing, id almost hazard to say I respect your politics more, ALMOST.
I think its kind of sick that you so freely mock domestic violence against kids though, thats just wrong.


Your in an organisation linked to an armed group that has murdered innocent civilians. Thats just wrong.


Hah I think that says it all, about how out of touch you really are.
Republicanism is disdained by the rich in Ireland, hence why places lik the bog and ardoyne etc are all working class communities.

Sure, but I'd suggest your the tag along sideline priviliged type who cheers on these sort of struggles but would never get involved in them.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Maybe we are a shitty party and a bunch of hacks.
But at least we are relevant to the working class here.

Your still not a working class party you do not serve the intrests of the working class. Sorry this is a fourm for leftists nationalist twats have there forums to visit.

[Invader Zim]

Im not a nationalist im a believer in an occupied peoples right to self determination.

Except, presumably, when it doesn't go your way, right?

[The Feral Underclass]

This thread is being closed because of it's utter uselessness.