The Soviet Empire?

[Glorious Union]

A lot of communists out there don't really know what it means to be communist. They see it from the cold war and think that the USSR was a totalitarian dictatorship with ulitmate control, suppressing the people in all ways imaginable. Here are some comments I have found from ignorant "communists".

"The Great Soviet man Stalin, the Great Soviet Empire, the Great Soviet people."

"All power to the Soviets."

"Soviet power supreme! Long live the new Rome!"

"We are-the mighty russian nation! We are strong! We are unbroken! We will win!"

"The hammer and sickle will unite us all. KGB shows its face as a big man and small man."

"Under the flawless Songun-based leadership of Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il the brilliant statesman, political genius, prodigious humanist, and invincible military commander, the Korean people vow eternal undying loyalty of single-minded unity to the leader, pledging to hurl their lives at the outsider aggressors in defence of the leader who is more precious than their own lives. Long live our gracious communist empire."

"Long live the dear leader!"

"Kim Jong Il and Stalin knew how to rule. All these other so called "communists" are taking down our glorious acheivments!"

"Kim Jong Il is a pure korean."

"Glory be to the great Juche idea."

"Obama is trying to take away our nuclear weapons in Russia because he is scared since we have more than the USA. Down you capitalist dogs! We will never relent! All for the Empire! Long live the Red Empire!"


Am I missing somthing here?:confused:

[#FF0000]

This just in: A lot of people who consider themselves communists or anarchists just barely have a grasp of what exactly they believe in and are in it for the image. More at 11.

[an apple]

It's just like with Al Qaeda and people of Islamic faith. Just because a couple are bad apples doesn't mean the rest are.

I would compare these 'communists' to the types who put on their Che Guevara T shirts before going out on excessive shopping sprees.

[Dimentio]

It's just like with Al Qaeda and people of Islamic faith. Just because a couple are bad apples doesn't mean the rest are.

I would compare these 'communists' to the types who put on their Che Guevara T shirts before going out on excessive shopping sprees.

I would say that a lot of them are really more nazis. They seem to think that communism is great because of the crimes committed by communist leaders.

[Woland]

"All power to the Soviets."

Do you even know what this means? Of course you don't, though you still call yourself a ''utilitarian'' ''communist''.

Otherwise, you might want to look up ''national bolshevik'' for all the other terms.

[trivas7]

What's your beef w/ slogans? Lenin loved them...:drool:

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yeah, "All power to the soviets" was the call to put power in the hands of the worker councils (Soviets) rather than having power and decision making through the Parliament and Social Democratic parties. I have nothing against this slogan unless someone is saying it to mean "All power to the Stalinist rulers of the USSR".

[Bud Struggle]

Did the Soviet Union actually even have Soviets?

[manic expression]

Did the Soviet Union actually even have Soviets?
Yes, but their role and structure changed quite a bit from 1917 to the early 90's. The Congress of the Soviets, the first governing body of the USSR, was replaced by the Supreme Soviet by Stalin (sometime in the 30's I think, although I could be mistaken). The Congress of the Soviets was later brought back in another form by Gorbachev in the 80's, while the Supreme Soviet was dissolved along with the Soviet Union.

[Bud Struggle]

Yes, but their role and structure changed quite a bit from 1917 to the early 90's. The Congress of the Soviets, the first governing body of the USSR, was replaced by the Supreme Soviet by Stalin (sometime in the 30's I think, although I could be mistaken). The Congress of the Soviets was later brought back in another form by Gorbachev in the 80's, while the Supreme Soviet was dissolved along with the Soviet Union.

But there never were (or never were for anything longer than a short time) real operating decision making Soviets in the USSR.

Was all that a farce?

[manic expression]

But there never were (or never were for anything longer than a short time) real operating decision making Soviets in the USSR.

Was all that a farce?

The answer to that is complicated and depends on how you view the USSR itself. To be sure, the original Congress of the Soviets did make many important decisions, including the endorsement of the October Revolution and the election of officers to the Soviet state. By the end of the Civil War, however, the country was so thoroughly torn apart that the Bolsheviks were literally the last party standing, and so the Soviets did become an official function of whatever course of action the party decided upon. It should be noted here that the Bolsheviks did willingly collaborate with other parties and ideologies, but the Civil War and its aftermath made that impossible in my view.

The Congress of the Soviets remained this way until they were replaced, and the Supreme Soviet took on much the same function. However, the president of the Congress during the 1930's (his name escapes me right now) WAS seen as an important member of the Soviet state, and was often the official to whom any popular grievences would be directed (for instance, if a village had an issue with how they were being treated, they were likely to send a letter to him). In spite of this, the real struggles for Soviet policy mostly took place in the party, and this can be seen in just about every important decision which took place (of which there were many, and of each there was opposition and dissent present).

I think that one can only really call it a farce if one tries to assign the mechanisms of bourgeois governments onto the Soviet state, and it's hard to avoid the fact that this would be quite unfair given the major differences in history, development and makeup. In other words, it's only a farce if the observer fundamentally disagrees with (or misunderstands, in my opinion) the nature of Soviet government. At any rate, I think it's a valid point that all governments have some of the same characteristics which some might call farcical with regard to the USSR (decision-making done largely within parties which represent certain interests).

[Glorious Union]

Yeah, "All power to the soviets" was the call to put power in the hands of the worker councils (Soviets) rather than having power and decision making through the Parliament and Social Democratic parties. I have nothing against this slogan unless someone is saying it to mean "All power to the Stalinist rulers of the USSR".

Well now this I did not know. I though that Soviet meant Russian, and assumed that they meant all power to the Soviets as all power to Russia and Russia alone.

[Bud Struggle]

Hey Manic--thanks for your answers. They were very helpful. Perhaps the word "farce" was too strong. But there never were Local Societs that made decisions for the local people on a day to day basis, were there?

[LOLseph Stalin]

Glorious Union, it's actually that small majority that sometimes makes me feel ashamed to be a Communist.

[Glorious Union]

Glorious Union, it's actually that small majority that sometimes makes me feel ashamed to be a Communist.

Actually, I dont call myself a communist anymore due to the fact that 1) most people associate communism with Stalinism and that = bad. 2) The vocal minority of communists (at least where I live) broadcast a fascist view with the communist tag label.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Actually, I dont call myself a communist anymore due to the fact that 1) most people associate communism with Stalinism and that = bad. 2) The vocal minority of communists (at least where I live) broadcast a fascist view with the communist tag label.

If anybody asks, I say i'm Socialist. :) Really the only people who know i'm actually Communist are my friends.

[Glorious Union]

If anybody asks, I say i'm Socialist. :) Really the only people who know i'm actually Communist are my friends.

I call myself the most absurd things.

Whe somebody says "are you a communist" I usually tell them I am one of the following:

Utilitarian
Vanguardist
Internationalist
Stotskyist (thats Stalinist + Trotskyist)
The Leftwards Party
NeoBolshevic/Ingsoc/DeathWorshiper
And, since the thing with Ivan the Terrible, a terriblist. :lol:

Everybody knows I am left, just not how far left.

[LOLseph Stalin]

And, since the thing with Ivan the Terrible, a terriblist. http://www.revleft.com/vb/soviet-empirei-p1406166/revleft/smilies2/laugh.gif

Yes, i'm definitely a Terriblist too. :p


Everybody knows I am left, just not how far left.

Yes, same here. People just love to ask me questions about left wing politics, assuming I have the answers to absolutely everything.

[manic expression]

Hey Manic--thanks for your answers. They were very helpful. Perhaps the word "farce" was too strong. But there never were Local Societs that made decisions for the local people on a day to day basis, were there?
Hey no problem. As far as local Soviets, I actually don't know so I should look that up if/when I can find a good source. I've heard anecdotes about community activities from people who lived there (recycling competitions between classes, students required to work at assisted living centers, stuff like that), but that's about it.

[ComradeOm]

Hey Manic--thanks for your answers. They were very helpful. Perhaps the word "farce" was too strong. But there never were Local Societs that made decisions for the local people on a day to day basis, were there?As manic says, its complicated. From 1917 onwards there were district soviets that, as the name suggests, had a much smaller scope than the larger city or provincial soviets. For example, in the capital alone there were (IIRC) up to a dozen separate district soviets below the famous Petrograd Soviet. However soviets, at any level, were always intended to be political organs and it wasn't until the complete breakdown of order following the October Revolution that they began to assume administrative duties. This was a very haphazard and uneven evolution forced on them by the disintegration of traditional government structures rather than any determined policy. By the summer of 1918 virtually all sections and duties of the old municipal councils (district dumas) had been transferred to local soviets; and these very real responsibilities were jealously guarded

Rabinowith's The Bolsheviks in Power is very good at charting the development of both soviet and Bolshevik structures in Petrograd during 1917 and 1918. See his The Bolsheviks Come to Power for a good account of the vital role that these district soviets played in the October Revolution

Edit:

Well now this I did not know. I though that Soviet meant Russian, and assumed that they meant all power to the Soviets as all power to Russia and Russia alone.How the feck can you claim to be a communist, or even display that avatar, when you don't know what the soviets were? Get yourself a history of the Russian Revolution pronto! I'd recommend Fitzpatrick's Russian Revolution as a good introduction

[Communist Theory]

"They come for our blood, yet drown in a river of their own!" :lol:
My favorite slogan!

[Communist Theory]

And, since the thing with Ivan the Terrible, a terriblist. :lol:

Everybody knows I am left, just not how far left.
Welcome aboard comrade!

[Revolutionary Youth]

How the feck can you claim to be a communist, or even display that avatar, when you don't know what the soviets were?
So what you are saying is, if you want to be a communist, we must know what the soviet were, right comrade?

[NecroCommie]

How the feck can you claim to be a communist, or even display that avatar, when you don't know what the soviets were?
Hammer and sickle were not, and is not a symbol of the soviet union, but it symbolizes the alliance of workers and farmers. Therefore soviet union logically used that symbol, but the symbol certainly does not refer to soviets or soviet union.

[ComradeOm]

So what you are saying is, if you want to be a communist, we must know what the soviet were, right comrade?I would expect some basic knowledge of revolutionary theory and history to be a prerequisite for identifying oneself as a communist, yes


Hammer and sickle were not, and is not a symbol of the soviet union, but it symbolizes the alliance of workers and farmers. Therefore soviet union logically used that symbol, but the symbol certainly does not refer to soviets or soviet union.And in which revolution was the hammer and sickle first used? With which revolution is it most strongly associated? And from which flag are both the hammer and sickle, and yellow star featured prominently on? Let's just say that Glorious Union did not get that avatar from a site dealing with the Paris Commune

[NecroCommie]

Its previous use is irrelevant, since one may use the symbol according to what it symbolizes to that particular individual. If it means something different for you then too bad. If ComradeOm chooses to use H&S as a symbol of worker/farmer alliance that use is more than justified and logical.

[Glorious Union]

How the feck can you claim to be a communist, or even display that avatar, when you don't know what the soviets were? Get yourself a history of the Russian Revolution pronto! I'd recommend Fitzpatrick's Russian Revolution as a good introduction

Before I came to RevLeft the most I knew about Russian communism was that the Gulags were prison work camps, and that Stalin was not a nice guy. Here in Texas we don't have communist literature, and the local library does not even have the Communist Manifesto. Oddly enough, they do have Mein Kampf.

And if you don't like me using this Avatar then fine, I'll change it.

[Bud Struggle]

Before I came to RevLeft the most I knew about Russian communism was that the Gulags were prison work camps, and that Stalin was not a nice guy. Here in Texas we don't have communist literature, and the local library does not even have the Communist Manifesto.

Not commenting on avatars--but I knew NOTHING about Communism (beside Stalin was bad, etc.) before I came to RevLeft, also. And I'd been to the USSR, and China.

I certainly don't agree with all you Commie Bastards have to say--but I must admit, RevLeft have been an eye opening experience. :)

Thank you, all.

[mykittyhasaboner]

And I'd been to the USSR, and China.


Oh the irony.

Lucky bastard.



I knew somethings about communist history before revleft, from what my grandfather and parents told me. I never actually believed any of the crazy propaganda about the left (stalin=baby eater, "in russia you were starved to death if you couldn't work" kind of shit), I always thought the US were the bad guys.

[Brother No. 1]

Before Revleft i was mostly learning from my dad. I still am but I learn here as well. The hammer and sickle Represents the Workers and farmers uniting to destroy Capitalist but the CCCP used this symbol for #1:the Workers,Peasants,and Farmers united and defated the Capitalists with the Bolsheviks and #2: They wanted to help SPREAD Socialism and Communism so its very logical for them to chose such a symbol. Still Hammer and Sickle doesnt = the CCCP it equals Communism.

[Dimentio]

When someone asks me where I stand, I usually answer by pointing out the main goal of the movement I am a part of to install sustainability.