Double ideology

[Idealism]

after achieving a basic understanding of (trotskyist) marxism and (social) anarchism; i think they both could work. Is this common, or rare? dont the two contradict each other?

[F9]

We had some "anartcho-trotskyists" in the past, maybe in the ideas there isnt so much clash and huge difference, but in what has been going on, what people have done in both ideologies name, there is a "fight" bettween the two, which people, usually take one side, and only.I mean you like both, what you have to say about kronstand..You know what i mean, theory dont clashes so much, but history does.I think you should avoid "labelling" yourself yer, study both ideologies in deapth, study and the other ones, and finally decide for the "label" of the Anarchists, Trotskyist, Stalinists etc etc, after you are sure about it.But dont worry, this isnt something "rare" people are "confused" with the ideology to choose all the time.

Fuserg9:star:

[Jack]

One wants a centralized elite ordering us around.

The other wants freedom.

[Jack]

Plus, Trots try to take over other organizations all the time, Trotsky advocated Entryism.

[Vendetta]

after achieving a basic understanding of (trotskyist) marxism and (social) anarchism; i think they both could work. Is this common, or rare? dont the two contradict each other?

Well, what parts of them do you think could be combined (or w/e) with one another?

Also, Makhno might want to have a word with you on the acceptability of Trotsky. ;)

[Idealism]

Well, what parts of them do you think could be combined (or w/e) with one another?

Also, Makhno might want to have a word with you on the acceptability of Trotsky. ;)

i think that they are both different strategies, differing in definition but aiming for the same thing; and both have the ability to work.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

i think that they are both different strategies, differing in definition but aiming for the same thing; and both have the ability to work.

COuld you please tell me the Trotskyist startegy?

[Idealism]

in short, marxist economics with a centrally democratic vanguard party helping to spread and lead the working class in their self-emancipation from the rich; to my understanding.

[Charles Xavier]

Okay sounds like you have a lot of reading to do Idealism.

Trotskyism and Anarchism contradict each other. I think its a bit immature to say what you stand for. Read more and criticize everything. Don't assign a label to yourself, read read read read and after that ask questions.

If your lost in a forest, you have a map and compass, do you use the map and compass or do you just walk down a road that you don't know where it ends up?

I don't think your anything other than a revolutionary with a lot of questions.

[LOLseph Stalin]

One wants a centralized elite ordering us around.


Somehow I don't think you understand Trotskyism. ;)
Trotsky advocated worker's democracy, not a ruling elite that makes all the decisions.

[Idealism]

Okay sounds like you have a lot of reading to do Idealism.

Trotskyism and Anarchism contradict each other. I think its a bit immature to say what you stand for. Read more and criticize everything. Don't assign a label to yourself, read read read read and after that ask questions.

If your lost in a forest, you have a map and compass, do you use the map and compass or do you just walk down a road that you don't know where it ends up?

I don't think your anything other than a revolutionary with a lot of questions.

in my defense i am rather young.

[Charles Xavier]

in my defense i am rather young.

Me too. You should spend your youth reading. It is very important to have correct theory.

[Idealism]

Me too. You should spend your youth reading. It is very important to have correct theory.

I'm doing somthing right then:)

[#FF0000]

I'm doing somthing right then:)

Yyyyup.

Now, I think a really good resource would be the Anarchist FAQ (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html). It's a pretty hefty read, so don't feel obligated to finish it from beginning to end. It's organized in such a way that it's easy to find specific questions and answers, so just go with whatever is getting at you the most.

It's a shame there's no Marxist FAQ anywhere. :(

[Invincible Summer]

Yyyyup.

Now, I think a really good resource would be the Anarchist FAQ (http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html). It's a pretty hefty read, so don't feel obligated to finish it from beginning to end. It's organized in such a way that it's easy to find specific questions and answers, so just go with whatever is getting at you the most.

It's a shame there's no Marxist FAQ anywhere. :(

I wonder if that says anything about Marxists...


/sectarianism

[Stranger Than Paradise]

in short, marxist economics with a centrally democratic vanguard party helping to spread and lead the working class in their self-emancipation from the rich; to my understanding.

OK so what makes Trotskyism different from Leninism? Well Trotskyism contradicts Anarchism on the idea of centralised power and also on a Vanguard party.

[Idealism]

OK so what makes Trotskyism different from Leninism? Well Trotskyism contradicts Anarchism on the idea of centralised power and also on a Vanguard party.

it isnt different from leninism, it affirms that lenin was right; but also takes Trotsky's ideas of permanent revolution. The differences between Trotsky and Lenin arent great; but the differences between Trotsky and Stalin are.

[Post-Something]

It's possible to accomodate a Trotskyist analysis of history, but advocate Anarchist strategy I guess. I'd still read around more though...

[robbo203]

in short, marxist economics with a centrally democratic vanguard party helping to spread and lead the working class in their self-emancipation from the rich; to my understanding.


Bit of a contradiction there dont you think? How can you "lead" the working class in their "self emancipation" from the "rich"

[Charles Xavier]

Its also possible to Mix lemonade with salt and pepper. Doesn't mean it'll taste good.

[Idealism]

Because the working class is the vanguard in the vanguard party, they make up the party.

[Charles Xavier]

Because the working class is the vanguard in the vanguard party, they make up the party.


correct

[Jimmie Higgins]

Bit of a contradiction there dont you think? How can you "lead" the working class in their "self emancipation" from the "rich"

The working class isn't a colony of ants and therefore doesn't take action on cue because of a reflexive response to pheromones. Since people are thinking, reasonable people with a variety of opinions and experiences, "Leading" can mean offering the best course of action.

In Stalinism and Capitalism, "leaders" have their position because they force people to follow and so people calling themselves anarchists have an understandable aversion to words like "leadership" in the context of capitalist society. However, even affinity groups have leaders and hope to lead people into seeing things differently or thinking about things differently. This leadership and the leadership of Revolutionary groups is different than the top-down "official" leadership of capitalist class society.

Not wanting leadership for anarchists and socialists means that the ideas that will "lead" the working class will be the ones that they are exposed to and in modern society that means mostly the ideas of the ruling class. This is not to suggest in any way that working class people can not or do not see the crap of class society for themselves or develop political strategies to do so - it happens all the time. But if these same individuals told anyone or organized with anyone and then this group tried to influence others on particular strategies - guess what, THEY'D BE LEADERS!

In short, I think anarchist want "No leaders" whereas I believe that revolutionary marxists and anarchists should seek to help make "All workers leaders" and eventually the working class as leaders of the other groups in society (i.e. they should convince other groups that working class leadership over all society - Socialism - is better for farmers or the unemployed and freindly petit bourgoise than Capitalist leadership over society and can lead to the abolition of all class society).

[Jack]

Have you ever read anything by Trotsky?

Never, I just stamp KRONSTADT on every piece of Trot literature I get handed. :p

[Yehuda Stern]

Never, I just stamp KRONSTADT on every piece of Trot literature I get handed.

I do the same. Brings up a smile every time.

[black magick hustla]

there are anarcho-trots. they are called platformists.

ding-dong-diiiiiiiing

[The Intransigent Faction]

Where the hell is Black Rifle?