Some pictures from the G20 protest (police brutality)

[Matina]

http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/britain/g20_police_brutality_2.jpghttp://www.marxist.com/images/stories/britain/g20_police_brutality_3.jpghttp://lh4.ggpht.com/_VO0hIwKRCQE/SdX17cMBHsI/AAAAAAAAC6E/G_dXKM1gx14/426095.jpghttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_VO0hIwKRCQE/SdX2GqDm73I/AAAAAAAAC7Y/5euprSWU4jY/s512/3405203655_c602b80e58_o.jpghttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_VO0hIwKRCQE/SdX2KvaTlFI/AAAAAAAAC8Y/QUSopQqaM3c/s512/3405206767_cc4166c6cf_o.jpg

[The Feral Underclass]

The first picture on the second row. I was stood about metre behind that man with the blooded head.

[Steve_j]

It would seem i would have been just on your left!

Is it just me, or are the first 3 cops in that photo doing some variation of a fascist salute?:laugh:

[Pogue]

I dunno about you but the last person I'd want to be treated by on a demonstration would be that **** in the far-right picture.

[Bitter Ashes]

No Steve. The caption would be:
"Young man! There's no need to feel down. I said..."

[Mike Morin]

The first picture on the second row. I was stood about metre behind that man with the blooded head.

What's a "metre"?


Mike Morin
USA, where these 55 year old two feet rent and do not have a yard or access to growing some of my own food.

[Mike Morin]

Mike Morin
USA, where these 55 year old two feet rent and do not have a yard or access to growing some of my own food.


May be I've got to grow another foot!!! :D


MM

[Rebel_Serigan]

It seems as if the Brit's police aren't trained in "Demonstartion Retrainment Tecniques" good for us. A op in the US will use little stuff like pressure points and mace to get protestors to run. I am glad that the Bobbies still hit people and cause damage. Makes our enemies look like real assholes for hitting defesless civilians. Hehheh

[teenagebricks]

Some really great pictures on that page, #28 just says it all.

[Bitter Ashes]

Wait a minute...
Do they have "MP" on thier helmets???
If they're the RMP that explains A LOT! They're sadistic bastards, the lot of them. I suppose it could mean Metropolitan Police too. Anyone able to comment?

[The Feral Underclass]

It would seem i would have been just on your left!

Were you there when everyone got behind the banner?

[bcbm]

A op in the US will use little stuff like pressure points and mace to get protestors to run.

No.

[ls]

Wait a minute...
Do they have "MP" on thier helmets???
If they're the RMP that explains A LOT! They're sadistic bastards, the lot of them. I suppose it could mean Metropolitan Police too. Anyone able to comment?

Most of them had BTP written on their helmets, explains a fucking lot if you ask me. Untrained officers holding and whacking people.


The kettle was the reason that man died and they know it.

[Bitter Ashes]

The transport police? You mean those guys who stand around in rail stations and are trained for tackling such "issues" as asking smokers to stop smoking on an open air platform, or throwing fare dodgers off the trains? That's crazy! No wonder they had no idea about what to do.

[pastradamus]

Little Runts just out of school beating up innocent people. After taking into account all this brutality and batton charging, I feel we must analyze the recent London police tactic of enclosing protesters in a phalanx-like formation and look for counter-measures to this. The worst part of this tactic is that is assures police brutality because it not only overcrowds a small area of protesters but also makes use of battons to push the crowd back - Badly injuring some people and I believe this was the cause of one of our comrades death during the first day of the G20 (despite what police say). You can be certain that other policing authorities will copy this tactic and formation and use it against us in future.

Countermeasures needed here.

[ls]

The transport police? You mean those guys who stand around in rail stations and are trained for tackling such "issues" as asking smokers to stop smoking on an open air platform, or throwing fare dodgers off the trains? That's crazy! No wonder they had no idea about what to do.

Also tackling people after they jump over barriers as they go through Stockwell tube station then shooting them in the head (yes I know it wasn't directly the BTP but they "worked together" with the met police).

[Rjevan]

Wow, the police really doesn't hold off. :ohmy: Some of these pictures remind me of photos of the Russian police dealing with demonstrators...


http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g24_18502133.jpg
Speaking of being right next to somebody on a photo, this brown haired guy with the beard, next to the man getting punched, looks very much like I do. I didn't knew that my sleepwalking is that bad, that I appear at protests in London. :D

[bellyscratch]

More pics:

Source (amazing number of good pictures of the protests) (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/04/protests_at_the_g20_summit.html)


some of them photos are brilliant, in the sense that seem to give a good insight into the protests.

Pretty sad seeing the one with the guy who died though...

[redflag32]

Violent political action is useless if it is divorced from a mass movement of the working class. Isnt that what you have been telling us violent Irish republicans all along?:)

[ls]

Violent political action is useless if it is divorced from a mass movement of the working class. Isnt that what you have been telling us violent Irish republicans all along?:)

Because the mass movement of the working-class loves and worships RBS, Fred Goodwin, Bank of England etc..

[OneNamedNameLess]

Wow, the police really doesn't hold off. :ohmy: Some of these pictures remind me of photos of the Russian police dealing with demonstrators...


Speaking of being right next to somebody on a photo, this brown haired guy with the beard, next to the man getting punched, looks very much like I do. I didn't knew that my sleepwalking is that bad, that I appear at protests in London. :D

Your not bad at all Rjevan ;)

I felt sorry for the police at times: they acted like delusional robots.

[redflag32]

Because the mass movement of the working-class loves and worships RBS, Fred Goodwin, Bank of England etc..

Whats "because...etc"?

Thats why Anarchists used violence on that day?

[ls]

Whats "because...etc"?

Thats why Anarchists used violence on that day?

There were lots of non-Anarchists using violence there too.

And what do you expect people to do when penned in for 6 hours by police, then forced back into space that didn't exist.. even people who went there for an entirely peaceful protest.

[Pogue]

Whats "because...etc"?

Thats why Anarchists used violence on that day?

What anarchists and violence are you referring to?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Thats why Anarchists used violence on that day?

From what I gather from talking to people whom went and by reading accounts of it the anarchists and other protesters used violence because there were hoards of thugs swinging batons at them. Its self defense and so far everyone I have spoken to about the events seems to understand that. This is by no means an armed uprising or the revolution but a group of normal people going to protest and then defending themselves after being attacked.

Hardly fucking groundbreaking.

[redflag32]

Call it what you like comrades, but anarchists use violence which is divorced from a mass movement all the time. Unless you're telling me that those who take part in violent mayday and g20 protests are not made up of a majority of anarchists?

I agree that violent action has to be part of a mass mobilization of the working class and not carried out by a few angry revolutionaries. The violence at these protests is just seen by the people as a bunch of hippies out for a fight, there is no theory behind it at all.

Maybe at this protest it was purely an act of self defence against police brutality, but i highyl doubt it. if thats the case, then fair enough, but lets be honest,thats not the case usually. Anarchists have looked down on Irish republicans for seemingly carrying out violent action which is divorced from a mass mobilization of the people. Pot and kettle?

[Pogue]

Call it what you like comrades, but anarchists use violence which is divorced from a mass movement all the time. Unless you're telling me that those who take part in violent mayday and g20 protests are not made up of a majority of anarchists?

I agree that violent action has to be part of a mass mobilization of the working class and not carried out by a few angry revolutionaries. The violence at these protests is just seen by the people as a bunch of hippies out for a fight, there is no theory behind it at all.

Maybe at this protest it was purely an act of self defence against police brutality, but i highyl doubt it. if thats the case, then fair enough, but lets be honest,thats not the case usually. Anarchists have looked down on Irish republicans for seemingly carrying out violent action which is divorced from a mass mobilization of the people. Pot and kettle?

To be honest, I don't think anyone really cares what one cop apologist like yourself thinks. You weren't there, so your opinion is essentially worthless.

[nuisance]

Call it what you like comrades, but anarchists use violence which is divorced from a mass movement all the time. Unless you're telling me that those who take part in violent mayday and g20 protests are not made up of a majority of anarchists?
Property destruction, to me, is not violence. Also, no I would not say that the majority of the self defence from aggressive police tactics was taken by anarchists. What are you basing your accusations on, as it obviously is not an eye witness account.


I agree that violent action has to be part of a mass mobilization of the working class and not carried out by a few angry revolutionaries. The violence at these protests is just seen by the people as a bunch of hippies out for a fight, there is no theory behind it at all.
And theory without action is also useless. No one is aruging that such actions are going to create revolution, but that is in no way a reason to object to swipes against the capitalist classes asserts.


Maybe at this protest it was purely an act of self defence against police brutality, but i highyl doubt it. if thats the case, then fair enough, but lets be honest,thats not the case usually. Anarchists have looked down on Irish republicans for seemingly carrying out violent action which is divorced from a mass mobilization of the people. Pot and kettle?
:confused:
So you think that objecting to the murder of civilians and a critique of national liberation (inherent in most anarchist traditions) is the equilvant to a few windows put through and some twatted cops?

[redflag32]

To be honest, I don't think anyone really cares what one cop apologist like yourself thinks. You weren't there, so your opinion is essentially worthless.

Cop apologist:laugh:My cousin was murdered by cops "comrade". Your accusation isnt based in a logical assesment of what i said anyway, so your opinion IS worthless.

[redflag32]

Property destruction, to me, is not violence.

Well ive seen plenty of real violence by anarchists,and its divorced from the working class. Ive also noticed how Anarchists condemned the republican protests in Dublin against the Orange Order marches, which was more along the lines of the "property destruction" you speak so highly of.



Also, no I would not say that the majority of the self defence from aggressive police tactics was taken by anarchists. What are you basing your accusations on, as it obviously is not an eye witness account.

My point is not concerned with this particular protest only.



And theory without action is also useless. No one is aruging that such actions are going to create revolution, but that is in no way a reason to object to swipes against the capitalist classes asserts.

Im not objecting to it. Im just saying that those who criticise others for supposedly carrying out elitist acts of violence should carry that analysis onto their own political actions.


:confused:

So you think that objecting to the murder of civilians and a critique of national liberation (inherent in most anarchist traditions) is the equilvant to a few windows put through and some twatted cops?

Im sayng its hypocritical to use violence which is isolated away from the mass of workers if you are criticising others for doing that.

[nuisance]

Well ive seen plenty of real violence by anarchists,and its divorced from the working class. Ive also noticed how Anarchists condemned the republican protests in Dublin against the Orange Order marches, which was more along the lines of the "property destruction" you speak so highly of.
I have not spoke highly of property destruction, but I do believe it can serve to break the mental boundaries created by the capitalist relations, it breaks the mystique- as well as damaging them finanically and being a adrenaline rush- keeps involvement refreshing as you are not being bogged down.
What violence have you seen by anarchists that you are referring to? Also, how is action taken by members of class divorced from it? Acts of property destruction are not seen by anarchists to create mass movement.
Are you sure that the Republicans, from anarchists, are not actually ideological points?

Im not objecting to it. Im just saying that those who criticise others for supposedly carrying out elitist acts of violence should carry that analysis onto their own political actions.
References please. Afterall, this point as been lobbied at Antifa, that the is organisation is elitist and 'squadist' (a predominatley anarchist organisation).


Im sayng its hypocritical to use violence which is isolated away from the mass of workers if you are criticising others for doing that.
Anarchists do not, for around a 100 years, blow people up. Such comparsions between attacks against banks and acts of terrorism is riduculous.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Here is an Archive of Pictures from the G20 Summit

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45626000/jpg/_45626839_cleanup5_getty.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04/03/article-1167050-0438BFBC000005DC-354_468x310.jpg



http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00086/AP090401014189_86165d.jpg

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Mass+Protests+Held+During+G20+World+Leaders+4DSlbU _JUFUl.jpg


http://www3.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/Protesters+Smash+Windows+G20+Summit+London+SfIde2v H2mIl.jpg

http://www1.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/Protesters+Outside+G20+Summit+London+0h4hn4O_gHXl. jpg

http://www1.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/Protesters+Outside+G20+Summit+London+iH7U0YB9ZWKl. jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/1/1238601275642/G20-Protests-G20-Protests-017.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/1/1238597223398/G20-Protests-G20-Protest--003.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/1/1238588167615/G20-protests-and-security-016.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/4/1/1238583544821/G20-protests-and-security-004.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/ap_G20_Protests_090402_ssh.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/rt_Protesters2_090401_ssh.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/nm_Protesters8_090401_ssh.jpg

http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/ap_Protesters12_090401_ssh.jpg

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g11_18502305.jpg


http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g16_18507209.jpg



http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g25_18507163.jpg



http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g28_18506529.jpg



http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g33_18506877.jpg

[redflag32]

[QUOTE]Also, how is action taken by members of class divorced from it?

The same could be said about members of the IRA. I'm not arguing for or against though, just pointing out the hypocracy.



Acts of property destruction are not seen by anarchists to create mass movement.

Bombing financial targets by the IRA was also not seen as a way to create mass movement but it was criticised as an elitist use of violence which is divorced from the working class. Maybe thats true, but im just saying SOME anti-republicans need to look in the mirror.



Anarchists do not, for around a 100 years, blow people up. Such comparsions between attacks against banks and acts of terrorism is riduculous.

Anarchists have been violently attacking members of the state since the mid 19th century actually so your wrong. Isolated acts of violence and murder have a very concrete home in anarchist theory. Why is the IRA criticised for its violent tactics which are isolated from the working class when Anarchisms history is plaqued with such actions.

Remember we're talking about the theory as a whole,not certain actions.

[nuisance]

Anarchists have been violently attacking members of the state since the mid 19th century actually so your wrong. Isolated acts of violence and murder have a very concrete home in anarchist theory. Why is the IRA criticised for its violent tactics which are isolated from the working class when Anarchisms history is plaqued with such actions.

Remember we're talking about the theory as a whole,not certain actions.
Read what I typed. Anarchists have not bombed random people for about 100 years, theory changes and you'll be hard strung to find an anarchist group that believes that kind of action is in anyway productive.
Try again.
You also have not referenced those who appartently critiqued property destruction, as I doubt that there was much more to the critique than what you are suggesting.

[apathy maybe]

Stupid people should have fucking masked up.

Nothing like not wearing a mask, smashing shit, and then getting arrested for it...

[redflag32]

Read what I typed. Anarchists have not bombed random people for about 100 years,

Either have Irish republicans. They bombed financial targets, giving a warning and also targetted British soldiers. We're talking about the theory of using violence that is divorced from a mass movement, not singular acts. Yes the IRA did bad things sometimes, but thats not the issue here, we are dealing with the theory as a whole. Your trying to disect this argument so you can defend your point better. The fact of the matter is that some anarchists need to look in the mirror when criticising republicans for using isolated acts of violence. It doesnt matter what form the violence takes, its the fact that its isolated from the masses which is the problem.





You also have not referenced those who appartently critiqued property destruction, as I doubt that there was much more to the critique than what you are suggesting.

Your not aware of the anti-republican brigades ivory tower analysis of the riots? In fairness, the anarchists were the most fair in there reading of what went on.

My main point is not directed purely against anarchists. Its at the ultra-left anti-republican brigade. Some people,including anarchists, criticise republicans for using isolated acts of violence when in fact there own movements history is steeped in such acts.

[Jorge Miguel]

Its at the ultra-left anti-republican brigade. Some people,including anarchists, criticise republicans for using isolated acts of violence when in fact there own movements history is steeped in such acts.This is despite the fact that even Republicanism in its present form has and continues to have a greater social base from which to justify violence than anarchism ever has or ever will.

[nuisance]

Either have Irish republicans. They bombed financial targets, giving a warning and also targetted British soldiers. We're talking about the theory of using violence that is divorced from a mass movement, not singular acts.
No, that is not what is being spoke about at all. The thing is that you seem to equate property destruction with acts of terrorism. This is propostrous.


Your trying to disect this argument so you can defend your point better.
Have you ever debated before?


The fact of the matter is that some anarchists need to look in the mirror when criticising republicans for using isolated acts of violence. It doesnt matter what form the violence takes, its the fact that its isolated from the masses which is the problem.
Provide examples with references to your claims.
Also, what? Of course it matters what form the violence takes, an assasination is going to have a very different reaction in comparison to having a few windows put through.


Your not aware of the anti-republican brigades ivory tower analysis of the riots? In fairness, the anarchists were the most fair in there reading of what went on.
We are talking about anarchists, not all 'anti-republicans', so why would I be defending their 'ivory tower'?


My main point is not directed purely against anarchists. Its at the ultra-left anti-republican brigade. Some people,including anarchists, criticise republicans for using isolated acts of violence when in fact there own movements history is steeped in such acts.
So modern day anarchists, whom reject such actions can not apply critiques because of what some people of the same tradition did years back? Ideas progress, thus we have seen the anarchist movement object to actions of terrorism.

[redflag32]

The thing is that you seem to equate property destruction with acts of terrorism. This is propostrous.

Im talking about the mayday fetish. Anarchists roaming the streets smashing up "property" like peoples cars to initiate a riot with the police.These violent acts are not spontanious, they are planned in advance and they are divorced from the mass movement. You might label it "property destruction" but to non-anarchist workers its violent behavour. Atleast with the IRA's version of "property destruction" they had a strong support base within the working class were their theory and ideas could be understood. Most non-political people understand the reasoning behind the IRA's targetting of financial targets. Nobody has a clue what a riot every year on mayday represents.





Have you ever debated before?

Don't be a child.



Provide examples with references to your claims.

If your going to try and pretend as if anarchists dont like a good scrap then i think this discussion is over. Everybody here knows they do. Youtube alone has a decent record of such actions.

Again, im not saying that they are wrong for doing this, just that they should be wary of criticising others for supposedly carrying out isolated non-worker acts of violence when there never too far away from that philosophy themselves.



Also, what? Of course it matters what form the violence takes, an assasination is going to have a very different reaction in comparison to having a few windows put through.

The main point we are discussing here is acts of violence which are non-worker and isolated. Whether its smashing windows or blowing up shops is inconsequential. Sure, the public opinion would be different in each case,but we are not talking about that. My point is not to say that type of action is correct or not, im making a correlation between the IRA's supposed acts of isolated violence and Anarchist activism.

[nuisance]

Im talking about the mayday fetish. Anarchists roaming the streets smashing up "property" like peoples cars to initiate a riot with the police.These violent acts are not spontanious, they are planned in advance and they are divorced from the mass movement. You might label it "property destruction" but to non-anarchist workers its violent behavour. Atleast with the IRA's version of "property destruction" they had a strong support base within the working class were their theory and ideas could be understood. Most non-political people understand the reasoning behind the IRA's targetting of financial targets. Nobody has a clue what a riot every year on mayday represents.
Mayday fetish? Anarchists, of the true nature of the word do not smash up random peoples cars, and the ideology of anarchism has nothing to do with such actions. Yes, actions against property are sometimes planned in advance, however this is not always the case. As they say, it is easy to see what you like when looking in from the outside.
What Mayday riots are these? I presume we're talking about the UK, so 2001? Because that was the last Mayday riot in the UK that I am aware of. It's important to note that anarchists are not the only people who participate in confrontation behaviour of demonstrations.


Don't be a child.
What? You complained about my dissection of your arguement, that is what happens within a debate....


If your going to try and pretend as if anarchists dont like a good scrap then i think this discussion is over. Everybody here knows they do. Youtube alone has a decent record of such actions.
I asked for references to back up your claims of anarchist critiques of Republicians as I doubt the critique was complaining about property destruction- as you are claiming.


Again, im not saying that they are wrong for doing this, just that they should be wary of criticising others for supposedly carrying out isolated non-worker acts of violence when there never too far away from that philosophy themselves.
References please.


The main point we are discussing here is acts of violence which are non-worker and isolated. Whether its smashing windows or blowing up shops is inconsequential. Sure, the public opinion would be different in each case,but we are not talking about that. My point is not to say that type of action is correct or not, im making a correlation between the IRA's supposed acts of isolated violence and Anarchist activism.
You seem to have a warped idea of what anarchist activism is in the first place. We emphasis community and workplace organisation, not rampages of smashing stuff up. Yes, anarchists are involved in smashing some stuff, but this is not a major tactic aimed at agitating the class to organise amongst itself.

[redflag32]

Mayday fetish? Anarchists, of the true nature of the word do not smash up random peoples cars, and the ideology of anarchism has nothing to do with such actions. Yes, actions against property are sometimes planned in advance, however this is not always the case. As they say, it is easy to see what you like when looking in from the outside.
What Mayday riots are these? I presume we're talking about the UK, so 2001? Because that was the last Mayday riot in the UK that I am aware of. It's important to note that anarchists are not the only people who participate in confrontation behaviour of demonstrations.


So which one is it. they do or they don't smash shit up?You're contradicting yourself in this paragraphy. How is that anarchists "sometimes plan to smash things up" and that they are "not the only ones doing it" (two acknowledgments that they do smash shit up) if "the ideology of anarchism has nothing to do with such actions"?





What? You complained about my dissection of your arguement, that is what happens within a debate....

I complained about you trying to disect the debate away from what was my main point-using isolated violence which is divorced from the masses as a theory in itself- towards a debate about which particular type of this action is the worst, republicans bombing financial targets or anarchists smashing windows. Its the fact that anarchism does use this tactic itself which is the point,not what form the violence takes. You were trying to score points by saying republicans blow up people etc,..disecting the main issue.




I asked for references to back up your claims of anarchist critiques of Republicians as I doubt the critique was complaining about property destruction- as you are claiming.


References please.


I have friends who are anarchists and i read a couple of articles online. But as i said, they werent the worst. Build a bridge, my point is still valid even if no anarchist condemned republican rioting in Dublin at that time. Anarchism opposes irish republicanism because they presume it to be elitist. If your not willing to admit that then we should just put this to bed.



You seem to have a warped idea of what anarchist activism is in the first place. We emphasis community and workplace organisation, not rampages of smashing stuff up. Yes, anarchists are involved in smashing some stuff, but this is not a major tactic aimed at agitating the class to organise amongst itself.

You've just admitted atleast three times in this reply that anarchists do smash stuff up. I dont think it takes a genius to see that when they do it is divorced from the mass movement. So my point is that those who criticise republicans for carrying out acts of violnce in nobodies name should look in the mirror.

Its a small point really.

[Invincible Summer]

Here is an Archive of Pictures from the G20 Summit



http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/ap_Protesters12_090401_ssh.jpg


http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g25_18507163.jpg



http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/g20_04_03/g28_18506529.jpg




These pics are great... the middle ones has the "Oh... shit!" expression on the pigs' faces and in the last one - is that an old woman pulling some jiu jitsu on the cop? :lol:

[nuisance]

So which one is it. they do or they don't smash shit up?You're contradicting yourself in this paragraphy. How is that anarchists "sometimes plan to smash things up" and that they are "not the only ones doing it" (two acknowledgments that they do smash shit up) if "the ideology of anarchism has nothing to do with such actions"?
Sorry, but your lack of understanding of the ideology of anarchism does not equate to contradictions in my line of arguement. Yes, anarchists do take part in property destruction, but very few would consider this as a part of the actual ideology of overthrowing the State and capitalism and organising towards a libertarian society.


I have friends who are anarchists and i read a couple of articles online. But as i said, they werent the worst. Build a bridge, my point is still valid even if no anarchist condemned republican rioting in Dublin at that time. Anarchism opposes irish republicanism because they presume it to be elitist. If your not willing to admit that then we should just put this to bed.
Yet you have not referenced a source yet.
Anarchism rejects Irish Republicanism because we ideologically oppose national liberation.


You've just admitted atleast three times in this reply that anarchists do smash stuff up. I dont think it takes a genius to see that when they do it is divorced from the mass movement. So my point is that those who criticise republicans for carrying out acts of violnce in nobodies name should look in the mirror.

Its a small point really.
You have not provided any links to critiques by anarchists opposing property destruction, thus this cannot go on until such a accusation can be varied.

[redflag32]

Sorry, but your lack of understanding of the ideology of anarchism does not equate to contradictions in my line of arguement. Yes, anarchists do take part in property destruction, but very few would consider this as a part of the actual ideology of overthrowing the State and capitalism and organising towards a libertarian society.


Yet you have not referenced a source yet.
Anarchism rejects Irish Republicanism because we ideologically oppose national liberation.


You have not provided any links to critiques by anarchists opposing property destruction, thus this cannot go on until such a accusation can be varied.

So what your essentially saying now is that Anarchists do infact use isolated non-worker acts of violence as a form of activism but they don't see it as a viable way to achieve mass movement.

Thats fine, but either do Irish republicans when they supposedly carry out the elitist acts of violence alot of anarchists blame them on. Just because it isnt a big part of anarchisms theory to smash shit up and riot doesnt mean it isnt hypocritical for those who do to criticise Irish republicans for being "elitist". Which is my point.

[nuisance]

So what your essentially saying now is that Anarchists do infact use isolated non-worker acts of violence as a form of activism but they don't see it as a viable way to achieve mass movement.

Thats fine, but either do Irish republicans when they supposedly carry out the elitist acts of violence alot of anarchists blame them on. Just because it isnt a big part of anarchisms theory to smash shit up and riot doesnt mean it isnt hypocritical for those who do to criticise Irish republicans for being "elitist". Which is my point.
You have not provided any evidence for your arguements, hence you subsequently have no arguement, only accusations.
It is also important to note that there are different traditions within anarchism, which offer slightly varying opinions.

[redflag32]

You have not provided any evidence for your arguements, hence you subsequently have no arguement, only accusations.
It is also important to note that there are different traditions within anarchism, which offer slightly varying opinions.

My accusation is that Anarchists do use isolated acts of violence. I dont need proof since you have just agreed with me that they do.

[nuisance]

My accusation is that Anarchists do use isolated acts of violence. I dont need proof since you have just agreed with me that they do.
Your accusation appears to differ in every post. The point that you meant to be proving was that anarchists have condemned the act of destroying property by Republicans.

[redflag32]

Your accusation appears to differ in every post. The point that you meant to be proving was that anarchists have condemned the act of destroying property by Republicans.

So your telling me that as an anarchist you have no problem with the IRA bombing financial targets in Britian?

[bcbm]

those who do to criticise Irish republicans for being "elitist".

Anarchists don't criticize Irish republicans as elitist.