The working class?

[OriginalGumby]

Are they bought off and/or ignorant people who are rightwing and will never change or are they a potential agent of revolutionary change.

[ZeroNowhere]

Some are brainwashed, of course, though if the entire working class were right wing, we'd have far less members here. That doesn't stop the working class from being an agent of revolutionary change, as they are entirely separated from the means of production.

[OriginalGumby]

That doesn't stop the working class from being an agent of revolutionary change, as they are entirely separated from the means of production.
:confused:
What do you mean separated?

[Blackscare]

The working class has always fluctuated between complacency and action. It all just depends on how well the illusion of capitalism and indoctrination masks the underlying injustices of the time and place, and on how effective/ineffective we on the left are at getting our message out.

But there is no monolithic class character of workers today as opposed to any other time.

[mikelepore]

If by "change" we all agree the word means a classless society with democratic self-management by the workers, this change can ONLY be implemented by the workers who daily build, occupy, and operate the means of production. Who else is there to do it? Most of our fellow workers don't currently recognize their historic mission, but that doesn't change the fact. They must do it one day, or no one ever will.

[YKTMX]

It does no one any favours to call the conservative elements of the working class 'brainwashed' or 'indoctrinated'. That is not a sufficient analysis of the problem and effects of ideology and how it works.

The ruling ideas are not 'imposed' on the working class from external agencies alone, they are constituted subjectively through a highly complex, decentralized network in a manner that makes their ultimate origin unknowable. It's not simply the case that the State or the Big Bourgeoisie pumps out maxims that the masses then 'accept' passively. In reality, ideas are relayed by a variety of sources - the family, the trade unions, political parties, the media, friends, workmates - none of which seem, on the face of it, to be 'agents of capitalism'.

Ruling ideas are, in many ways, laundered money - money that originates from a criminal enterprise but that has passed through the hands of so many intermediaries that its criminal 'source' is obscured.

This is why we always get ourselves pushed into corners we can't get out of. When people say 'working class people think such and such' and we say 'but they're brainwashed', it looks silly. It looks silly because that it doesn't chime with our experience of life under capitalism. There is no 'Big Brother' that tells us what to think. There are conflicting ideas, ideas that change with the contours of the class struggle, so that 'brainwashing', even if it were possible for the ruling class to do it, would not be desirable.

As such, it doesn't make sense to speak of a 'revolutionary' working class and a 'conservative' or 'bought-off' element. The political and ideological composition of the working class is a condition dependent upon a multitude of factors. And it isn't stable. What may one day look like a 'conservative element' will, the next day, look like the most militant element - and vice versa.

The working class is not a 'thing' that can be easily compartmentalized into groups we 'like' and groups 'we don't like'. It is an shifting and evolving social force that is constituted in relation to other social forces and to itself. It is not a mass of people who are either 'revolutionary' or, its alternative, 'brainwashed'.

[brigadista]

depends on the economic and historical conditions the working class find themselves in at any period in time

[PeaderO'Donnell]

Are they bought off and/or ignorant people who are rightwing and will never change or are they a potential agent of revolutionary change.


Has anyone actually ever replyed to MIM's researches on the First World white working class?

[OriginalGumby]

I was curious what fellow revlefters thought because there are many people who consider themselves leftists who do not see the working class having the potential to radicalize and lead struggle for a classless society. In fact many substitute themselves for the mass participation of the working class. I think that the working class must lead revolutionary struggle and I absolutely agree that the consciousness of people changes depending on a number of factors in the world such as economic crisis and contact with radicals. We must seek to connect with people starting to question the way this world works instead of being dismissive of people who are radical enough yet or who don't do anything.

[Pogue]

Are they bought off and/or ignorant people who are rightwing and will never change or are they a potential agent of revolutionary change.

Aren't you basically asking the revolutionary left whether or not they think a revolution could ever happen or not?

[Mike Morin]

Capitalists, in the USA anyway, have a divising strategy of segmenting workers into "management" and "labor".

Another institutional divise is to classify workers as "exempt" and "non-exempt" . What do these terms mean? Exempt are usually more highly paid workers, but they are salaried and exempt from labor laws that require that time and a half be paid for overtime.

Mike Morin
www.peoplesequityun ion.blogspot. com