LSD experience without LSD?

[benhur]

Is it possible to experience it? I mean, are there some kind of binaural beats that can alter the brainwave patterns and thereby make us perceive the world differently? Space and time disappear if you take LSD, you feel like you're one with everything, your sensitivity increases tremendously, and all the rest.

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

[Hit The North]

Perhaps. But it'd just be a lot easier to score some acid.

I guess your real question should be whether it's possible to alter your perceptions on an ad-hoc basis - to have that 'trip' but avoid the brain damage?

Maybe you'll find your answer on the wikipedia entry here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD which seems pretty thorough and features a great 3-d representation of an LSD molecule which looks pretty trippy in itself.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I have heard of people who have claimed to exercise control over their minds so as to be able to experience the world as they did with drugs, but i am not sure how plausible this really is.

I doubt that sights and sounds could create a trip-like experience, as the trip would lack the significance behind each perception. I do not think it is possible to quantify an LSD trip too thoroughly, or any trip for that matter. Even if you could bring about a trip-like experience it would be specific to the method used, and even if this resembled the effects of LSD in some respect, it would only be a loose similarity; probably no closer than taking LSA (althought without the nausea).

Simple answer, to experience LSD you have to take LSD. To experience a LSD-like trip you can probably subsitute different chemicals. The only reports I have come across (may have been on bluelight or something) whereby people achieved a sober trip is through immense mental control when the subject has substantial and prior knowledge of chemically induced trips.

LSD is not exactly toxic, why not use the chemical? The dangers come from being in a trip, but as you want to achieve this anyway I cannot see a reason for not using the LSD. Perhaps you want a higher degree of control over it (I suggest taking a small ammount of mushrooms), or you want it to last for less time (again similar suggestion). Whatever you are after, it is likely that chemicals will be required at some stage.

[synthesis]

Is it possible to experience it? I mean, are there some kind of binaural beats that can alter the brainwave patterns and thereby make us perceive the world differently? Space and time disappear if you take LSD, you feel like you're one with everything, your sensitivity increases tremendously, and all the rest.

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

Hmm... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaesthesia)

[Invincible Summer]

From what I understand, salvia gives a slight acid-like trip, but only lasts for like 3 minutes

[synthesis]

From what I understand, salvia gives a slight acid-like trip, but only lasts for like 3 minutes

Salvia is completely different from acid, at least in my experience. It was more like dreaming than tripping, if that makes sense. I got more of a "vision" than "visuals," so to speak.

I smoked it sitting in a car in the city at midnight, but for however long I was on it - felt like an hour, probably just a couple minutes - I was laying on the beach, the sun was setting, and the tides were rolling in. "Coming down" was really more like "waking up."

I was in a completely different world, but I never got the feeling of constant revelation that I got on other psychedelics. Apparently salvia is more of a dissociative, and I've never tried any of the others in that category, like PCP and ketamine, so I can't really say how it compares, but it is very, very different from LSD.

[Trystan]

I think salvia gives you an LSD-ish experience. It only lasts about 15 minutes, though.

[Dean]

Is it possible to experience it? I mean, are there some kind of binaural beats that can alter the brainwave patterns and thereby make us perceive the world differently? Space and time disappear if you take LSD, you feel like you're one with everything, your sensitivity increases tremendously, and all the rest.

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

Yeah, ever since he left its like he's still here :lol:

[which doctor]

I've never much luck with binaural beats, and I doubt that they could ever produce an experience as powerful as LSD. There are some meditation and breathing techniques that are supposed to be able to produce an experience as powerful as a drug like LSD, but they require a lot of time and effort to master.

[JohannGE]

Not sure if you are speaking of practical or potential ways, at the personal or mass level of means to "create the same conditions without resorting to LSD". I find the possibility of the mass experience of the non chemical trip, a frightening prospect. I think most people who have used LSD would agree that the experience suggests a close parralel between claimed religous experiences and those often experienced with LSD use.

ie:-
---
"The religious experience has been defined in a variety of ways.
Below is a composite definition from James (1902), Pahnke (1963), Fischer (1978), Pratt (1920)":-

•Loss of all awareness of discrete limited being and of the passage of time
•An obliteration of the self-other dichotomy
•Visual and auditory hallucinations
•Feelings of bliss and ecstasy
•Feelings of transcendence of the ordinary world
•Preoccupation with religious ritual
•Feelings of internal unity
•Feelings of cosmic union and consciousness
•Feelings of transcendence of space and time
•Sense of presence of a higher being(s) or reality
•Sense of insight into the nature of the universe and an overcoming of paradoxes.
•Entering into trance states
•Sense of sacredness
•Sense of ineffability

http://www.psych.uiuc.edu/~bhidalgo/litreview.htm
---
While the ability to instill the above characteristics at will might apear irrisistable, the potential social impacts are far reaching and suggest a society resembling that of the Eloi of H. G. Wells novel The Time Machine.

"How to wire your brain for religious ecstasy
By John Horgan

"Our current mystical technologies are primitive, but one day, neurotheologians may find a technology that gives us permanent, blissful self-transcendence with no side effects. Should we really welcome such a development? Recall that in the 1950s and 1960s, the CIA funded research on psychedelics because of their potential as brainwashing agents and truth serums.
Even setting aside the issue of control, mystical technologies raise troubling philosophical issues. Shulgin, the psychedelic chemist, once wrote that a perfect mystical technology would bring about "the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of the human experiment." When I asked Shulgin to elaborate, he said that if we achieve permanent mystical bliss, there would be "no motivation, no urge to change anything, no creativity." Both science and religion aim to eliminate suffering. But if a mystical technology makes us immune to anxiety, grief, and heartache, are we still fully human? Have we gained something or lost something? In short, would a truly effective mystical technology — a God machine that works — save us, or doom us?"
http://wireheading.com/brainstim/religious-ecstasy.html
---

There is a list of links to other related articles at the bottom of the page linked above.

[Hit The North]

Whenever I've tripped I always get a religious experience, that I'm being observed and scrutinized by a higher power. However, because I'm an atheist the experience is always translated into a secular scenario: I have the delusion that I'm being filmed by a movie director.

[Hit The North]

Drugs are for people trying to escape the world instead of staying on point and changing it.

That's very true. Opium is the religion of the people.

[commyrebel]

It works some what. i have tried it but it isn't as good as the real thing.

[Vincent P.]

I practice meditation since about 6 month, and I can somewhat alterate my conciousness. I can auto-induce euphoria and mild hallucinations when I close my eyes closed, but it's more like pot than acid. Although I've heard of people with much more experience than myself who were able to sustain lenghty trips via meditation.

So you have 2 choices: practice meditation 2h a day for 10 years, or drop some acid bought at the street corner:P.

[Vanguard1917]

"The religious experience has been defined in a variety of ways.
Below is a composite definition from James (1902), Pahnke (1963), Fischer (1978), Pratt (1920)":-

•Loss of all awareness of discrete limited being and of the passage of time
•An obliteration of the self-other dichotomy
•Visual and auditory hallucinations
•Feelings of bliss and ecstasy
•Feelings of transcendence of the ordinary world
•Preoccupation with religious ritual
•Feelings of internal unity
•Feelings of cosmic union and consciousness
•Feelings of transcendence of space and time
•Sense of presence of a higher being(s) or reality
•Sense of insight into the nature of the universe and an overcoming of paradoxes.
•Entering into trance states
•Sense of sacredness
•Sense of ineffability

Yeah, pretty much my idea of hell.

[Mowgli]

Drugs are for people trying to escape the world instead of staying on point and changing it.

What's wrong with doing both?

[Yopuii]

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

There's a piece of software out that you may be interested in looking into. It's called I-Doser. i-doser.com

[Le Libérer]

Drugs are for people trying to escape the world instead of staying on point and changing it.
Depends on the drug. Some drugs you need to help you stay on point and change the world. Its the process of finding which one will work for you, that can be perceived as escapism.

[DesertShark]

Saliva is similar to DMT/5-meo-DMT (a chemical released in your brain when you die or as you're dying).

LSA (comes from morning glory seeds, which are legal) is similar to LSD although I've never tried it.

Peyote/mescaline will give you a similar trip to LSD.

I've taken my fair share of acid and I've had a different experience every time, which is part of the reason I enjoy it. It knocks down the filters you build up throughout life. If you could go back to being a baby or infant, you might experience something similar. I've also heard of people who are good at meditation (10s of years of practice) being able to drop these filters. You could also read Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, which explains a trip on peyote (also its similarities to schizophrenia, which might be another option of experiencing a trip without taking the drug, although it would probably be a bad trip).

I'm wondering though, if you've never done LSD how do you know what you're missing? Or how would you know if you ever experienced it through some other means? Why do you want to experience it without doing the drug?



Drugs are for people trying to escape the world instead of staying on point and changing it.
Do you drink alcohol or smoke tobacco? Because those are both drugs. Have you ever (been prescribed and) taken a pain killer? That's a drug too.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Lol, shrooms.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If dabbling in drugs has taught me anything, it's that they're all different. The only way to have an LSD experience is to actually take LSD.

When I took it, the most memorable experience for me was the feeling of pure, ecstatic raw knowledge that made me laugh until I cried. A couple of nights ago I woke up from a dream in which I was so happy I was crying, even when I was half-awake. I wonder if these two events are related, since they felt very similar, and I remember reading that psychedelic hallucinogens such as LSD and mushrooms (which I've also used once) can induce quasi-permanent changes in the brain.

Regardless, I have absolutely no regrets in having taken any drug. I feel that all of them have enriched my life, each in their own unique manner. Even the "mundane" ones like tobacco, alcohol and cannabis.

[DesertShark]

Lol, shrooms.
Completely different trip.


I wonder if these two events are related, since they felt very similar, and I remember reading that psychedelic hallucinogens such as LSD and mushrooms (which I've also used once) can induce quasi-permanent changes in the brain.
I remember talking with my brother about this and we both remember smoking pot before we had done LSD and how different its been since. It lead us both to believe that LSD does change something in your brain. It definitely changed my perception of the world. Thanks for bringing that up.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I guess in theory you could have your brain react like it does on LSD. As I understand, the effects are not from what's in LSD but LSD is a catalyst that causes your brain to work differently.

Possibly sensory deprivation, lack of sleep, lack of food, could cause you to hallucinate and have some similar experiences to LSD, but why bother. LSD is cheap and relatively easy to get.

LSD is different than what you might expect. Anyone who does it should do it with friends in a comfortable setting and not have expectations about what it will be like. I've had good experiences except once - but in the long run even the bad experience was illuminating (although I would never intentionally want to repeat it).

[benhur]

It lead us both to believe that LSD does change something in your brain. It definitely changed my perception of the world.

Thanks for sharing your experiences, but can you tell me what you mean when you say perception changes? When you see an object, say a chair or table, is your perception going to be different, in that you won't see it the same way others see it?

Is the change in perception on the physical level, such as do you see the FORM and COLOR itself differently? I hope you can explain this. I'd like to know whether the object appears completely differently.

[benhur]

Oh, and the reason why I asked is because if we can do it without LSD, we can avoid dependence and rely on our minds alone, which is far better, isn't it? Anyway, my point is, if we can release the same chemicals (that are released while taking LSD), through some other method, then we don't have to rely on anything else.

[Patchd]

Well I guess it depends what you mean by LSD experience, just a trip you looking for or more? It varies with acid too, differences in experiences due to amount of acid taken, or strength of the acid.

I guess some other common hallucinogenics include:

DXM (+salvia and weed gives you an amazing trip) : Basically cough medicine, but check on erowid before you go out to buy some. In Britain, its' sold in the form of Benyllin, Dry Cough, Non-Drowsy and comes in a Blue packet in most pharmacies.

2ci/2cb : Chemicals, quite rare on the scenes, although you can find them now and again in the psytrance/tekno/d&b scene. You can snort it, ingest it etc... Never tried it myself, although I hear it's quite trippy.

Cannabis : If you ingest it (eat it) you will probably trip from it. Again, it depends on the dosage, and the quality of the strain of cannabis you eat. You can bake em in cakes, muffins, etc... cook them into butter, or if you want to drink it (a banana smoothie is a good try out ;) ) cook it in a fatty substance, like butter, milk or oil first, and then add it into the drink, coffee and tea can work too.

Shrooms : Used to be able to buy it off the counter in Britain, but not any more. Mind you, spore kits can still be bought online, and there should be guides all over the internet if you want to try picking. I suggest, if you do want to try picking yourself, get someone who's done it before who can pretty much teach you, however experienced you are, one mushroom out, and you're fucked.

Salvia/Hawaiian Baby Woodrose/LSA : Mainly legal stuff, in Britain it is anyway, and you can find them pretty much anywhere in a bong shop, the LSA which comes in the form of Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds usually can also be bought in gardening stores. If you live in London; Camden.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Oh, and the reason why I asked is because if we can do it without LSD, we can avoid dependence and rely on our minds alone, which is far better, isn't it?

LSD isn't addictive or habit-forming.

[benhur]

LSD isn't addictive or habit-forming.

I understand, but wouldn't it be a little annoying to rely on LSD every time we want to taste such a wonderful, other-worldly experience? If we could somehow do it with our own minds, it could be so cool.

[Patchd]

I understand, but wouldn't it be a little annoying to rely on LSD every time we want to taste such a wonderful, other-worldly experience? If we could somehow do it with our own minds, it could be so cool.

My mate was talking to me about this the other day, what I'm wondering, to all you scientists out there, is whether it would be possible in the future to use some form of (electronic) chip to alter the chemical balance in your brain to produce effects similar to psychedelics?

[mosfeld]

How about just doing LSD instead of going through the whole hassle you described? doing LSD is less harmful than, e.g, alcohol.

[TC]

Is it possible to experience it? I mean, are there some kind of binaural beats that can alter the brainwave patterns and thereby make us perceive the world differently? Space and time disappear if you take LSD, you feel like you're one with everything, your sensitivity increases tremendously, and all the rest.

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

I"ve experienced very very strange time distortion effects with substances that should not have that effect...so i think it is definitely possible.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Completely different trip.

Well obviously, I just suggested shrooms because it seems the OP just wanted to trip but doesnt want to, or cant use lsd.

[9]

I prefer mushrooms to LSD because I prefer natural substances to man-made chemicals.
But, as to your question, I don't see how it would be possible to simply cause such an experience without the aid of some substance. Perhaps a lifetime of meditation could bring you closer, but I still don't see it happening.

[Patchd]

How about just doing LSD instead of going through the whole hassle you described? doing LSD is less harmful than, e.g, alcohol.

Because it could be more efficient in future society than having to produce different chemicals for different effects. Perhaps just a switch or charge into a chip that can cause chemical inbalances which causes trips.

Just curious, I was asking about the possibility of it happening, not whether we should do so or not.

[heylelshalem]

if you want to experience LSD you have to try it. Just dont do a "huge" dosage of it. Know what you are going to take..ie ask a person who has done the variety you are going to try..you dont want to dose too strongly if the acid is too strong.

i find that LSD is a "cleaner" trip compared to shrooms or salvia. The most important thing to remember though is that you dont want to bite off more then you can chew...metaphysically as well as metaphorically.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I prefer mushrooms to LSD because I prefer natural substances to man-made chemicals.

That is a ridiculous reason. Just because a substance is natural rather than artificial doesn't make it better. I rather doubt that you down mugs of scorpion venom, even though it's natural.

[mykittyhasaboner]

LSD is only partly synthesized anyway.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

What's the problem with the real thing?

[Dimentio]

Is it possible to experience it? I mean, are there some kind of binaural beats that can alter the brainwave patterns and thereby make us perceive the world differently? Space and time disappear if you take LSD, you feel like you're one with everything, your sensitivity increases tremendously, and all the rest.

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

This guy claims he has achieved it with a nutritious diet and tea.

http://zoonicdehedgehoog.blogspot.com/2009/04/strange-metabolism.html

[cop an Attitude]

I once tried sensory depervation by cutting a ping pong ball into halves and taping it over my eyes. If sealed it can defuse and light to just white. Then with a pair of headphones playing white noise your senses are rendered unactive. If you relax and clear your mind you might be able to expreience some images, I saw diffrent shapes and colors flying in and out of my sight. I was able to hear voices in the white noise too but I couldn't make out what they were saying, and I heard french too. When you deny your mind feedback it creates its own, or atleast thats the theroy. It worked a bit but there was no altered state of mind. I would say the only real way to exprenecie LSD it to take LSD and the same goes for any drug
I would say get a low dose salvia, take some shrooms or just smoke a lot of weed if you want to trip. If you get 21 or 18 level salvia its not to intense and it only lasts about 5 mins - 10mins. Its costly though, if buying at head shops or smoke shops. Shrooms are fairly safe and the only main threat is having a bad trip, they are orgainic and I think a more comfortable transition than just jumping head first into LSD. I have tripped while smoking several times and had very vivid thoughts and closed eye visuals, you might want to smoke first to introduce yourself to pychodelics and have a less likly chance for a bad trip.

[JohannGE]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, but can you tell me what you mean when you say perception changes? When you see an object, say a chair or table, is your perception going to be different, in that you won't see it the same way others see it?

I think the experience is different for every individual as it can also be for every trip. I would say the altered perception is impossible to describe acurately to anyone who has not experienced it. It is so far removed from any "normal" experience that "normal" concepts of percepcion just don't fit.


Is the change in perception on the physical level, such as do you see the FORM and COLOR itself differently?

All that and much, much more. ;)

It is over 20 yrs since I last took acid and just talking about it now brings back some of the feelings. Apart from the intensity and exitement of the experience at the time, I would say that it can permenantly alter your conciousness, imo in a positive way. (not forgeting the occasional negative changes it undoubtably can have for some individuals). For me it revealed what a fluid and individual thing perception can be. We tend to think that what we "normaly" experience is reality. LSD reaveals that reality can in many ways be what we make it and can be different for every individual.

An amusing clip of brit troops on acid here:-

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=517198059628627413

:)

[mykittyhasaboner]

What's the problem with the real thing?
No real problem per say, its just what is known as LSD is made from the reaction of combining chemicals rather than just one, like shrooms for example, which the only real active ingredient is psilocybin, which naturally occurs. LSD is made from taking a lysergic acid, typically diethylamine, and combines it with dominant chemicals of the ergot fungus. So really its "semi-synthisezed", because diethlaymine is produced from ammonia (I think, it must be a combination of ammonia and something else).

[benhur]

Another quick question. Has anyone experienced synesthesia? This is perhaps the most amazing experience ever, at least in my view.

[DesertShark]

Thanks for sharing your experiences, but can you tell me what you mean when you say perception changes? When you see an object, say a chair or table, is your perception going to be different, in that you won't see it the same way others see it?

Is the change in perception on the physical level, such as do you see the FORM and COLOR itself differently? I hope you can explain this. I'd like to know whether the object appears completely differently.
No worries, I love talking about drugs. I was talking about my understanding of how things in the world relate to one another (and interact with each other) since the 1st time I took acid. I wasn't talking about during the trip, because each trip is different and its really dependent on how much you take (note: you can't OD from acid, you just have a more intense, not necessarily bad, trip or a prolonged trip). The only drugs that will make you see something that's not there is DXM if you hit 3rd or 4th plateau (same with ketamine) because they are dissociatives . You will never see something appear "out of no where" on any hallucinogen. My favorite thing about taking acid is the colors, but I only see them on strong doses.

One way I've experienced an LSD trip (and also a roll from xtc) is from being around people who are on the drug, but this only works after you've done the drug at least once. I remember being at a party and smoking with some friends and then feeling like I was tripping whenever I was physically near them. At the time I thought we were smoking something that was laced but when I wasn't near them I didn't feel it. When I talked to them the next morning they told me they had dropped acid, which explained why I felt like I was tripping whenever I was near them. I think its called a contact buzz, but I've definitely experienced it from LSD and E. The cool thing about being a social animal and having the capability of being empathetic is that you can feel what others feel.


DXM (+salvia and weed gives you an amazing trip) : Basically cough medicine, but check on erowid before you go out to buy some. In Britain, its' sold in the form of [I]Benyllin, Dry Cough, Non-Drowsy and comes in a Blue packet in most pharmacies.
Be extremely careful with the type of cough medicine you buy because a lot of them have other ingredients that can make you really sick in large quanities (ie the quanities you'll be ingesting to trip). In the states, the best one to buy with the highest amount of DXM and no other chemicals in it that can make you sick is Delsym (it also tastes good). 'Robo-tripping' is a lot of fun.


2ci/2cb : Chemicals, quite rare on the scenes, although you can find them now and again in the psytrance/tekno/d&b scene. You can snort it, ingest it etc... Never tried it myself, although I hear it's quite trippy.
I've done 2cb and it is a crazy trip, a very cool drug and unlike anything else I've tried. I've also done amt (my personal favorite) - its a mix between an acid trip and xtc roll, but without the crash of E.


Cannabis : If you ingest it (eat it) you will probably trip from it. Again, it depends on the dosage, and the quality of the strain of cannabis you eat. You can bake em in cakes, muffins, etc... cook them into butter, or if you want to drink it (a banana smoothie is a good try out ;) ) cook it in a fatty substance, like butter, milk or oil first, and then add it into the drink, coffee and tea can work too.
The only time I've ever tripped off pot is at the tail end of an acid trip. I've eaten a lot and never tripped. I do enjoy eating it though.

[ckaihatsu]

Whenever I've tripped I always get a religious experience, that I'm being observed and scrutinized by a higher power. However, because I'm an atheist the experience is always translated into a secular scenario: I have the delusion that I'm being filmed by a movie director.


Hilarious! (Sounds Woody Allen-esque...!)


x D





Thanks for sharing your experiences, but can you tell me what you mean when you say perception changes? When you see an object, say a chair or table, is your perception going to be different, in that you won't see it the same way others see it?

Is the change in perception on the physical level, such as do you see the FORM and COLOR itself differently? I hope you can explain this. I'd like to know whether the object appears completely differently.


Here -- I've, uh, "heard" that the following video is an accurate reproduction of some of the effects:


YouTube - lsd effect

www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9EpnVAl5JA





Oh, and the reason why I asked is because if we can do it without LSD, we can avoid dependence and rely on our minds alone, which is far better, isn't it? Anyway, my point is, if we can release the same chemicals (that are released while taking LSD), through some other method, then we don't have to rely on anything else.


Now try experiencing that effect (as shown in the video) without ingesting anything -- good luck!





LSD is different than what you might expect. Anyone who does it should do it with friends in a comfortable setting and not have expectations about what it will be like. I've had good experiences except once - but in the long run even the bad experience was illuminating (although I would never intentionally want to repeat it).


Funny thing about certain experiences -- they're so unique and outside of anything that one has -- or could possibly -- experience in their past, that the new experience is like a meta-experience, or an "x-factor" -- isn't it interesting that we could likewise say, "Anyone who does ______ should do it with friends in a comfortable setting and not have expectations about what _____ will be like."





if you want to experience LSD you have to try it. Just dont do a "huge" dosage of it. Know what you are going to take..ie ask a person who has done the variety you are going to try..you dont want to dose too strongly if the acid is too strong.

i find that LSD is a "cleaner" trip compared to shrooms or salvia. The most important thing to remember though is that you dont want to bite off more then you can chew...metaphysically as well as metaphorically.


I've also heard that the stronger the dosage the more your ego and learned responses will be stripped away, leaving you more exposed to the raw sensory stimuli of the environment around you. Curiously, this means that you will require more attention and effort to just simply *process* the stimuli coming in -- consider how a baby looks as it takes in the novel world around it -- (also see the excellent sequence that depicts this, towards the end of the movie "Acid House"). This means that you will be *overwhelmed* without even doing anything....





Because it could be more efficient in future society than having to produce different chemicals for different effects. Perhaps just a switch or charge into a chip that can cause chemical inbalances which causes trips.

Just curious, I was asking about the possibility of it happening, not whether we should do so or not.


I think we should venture into this territory just as much as we would want to see new movies made, or new literature written -- as much as people want to push the envelope, as with commonplace visits into space or whatever -- that's the extent to which we should *develop* the *means* to make new experiences accessible.





"Our current mystical technologies are primitive, but one day, neurotheologians may find a technology that gives us permanent, blissful self-transcendence with no side effects. Should we really welcome such a development? Recall that in the 1950s and 1960s, the CIA funded research on psychedelics because of their potential as brainwashing agents and truth serums.
Even setting aside the issue of control, mystical technologies raise troubling philosophical issues. Shulgin, the psychedelic chemist, once wrote that a perfect mystical technology would bring about "the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of the human experiment." When I asked Shulgin to elaborate, he said that if we achieve permanent mystical bliss, there would be "no motivation, no urge to change anything, no creativity." Both science and religion aim to eliminate suffering. But if a mystical technology makes us immune to anxiety, grief, and heartache, are we still fully human? Have we gained something or lost something? In short, would a truly effective mystical technology — a God machine that works — save us, or doom us?"
http://wireheading.com/brainstim/religious-ecstasy.html
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There is a list of links to other related articles at the bottom of the page linked above.


This is a profound issue -- it's true that a state of mind which is self-consciously considered to be perpetually novel is synonymous with a state of bliss. Whether it's perpetually novel in a *progressive*, enlightening way, or perpetually novel in a *static* or *regressive* way is another matter altogether -- certainly religion and mysticism can provide this state of bliss for people, but as materialists we have to question whether that's *societally* beneficial, or just a fancy mindfuck.


Chris




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-- Of all the Marxists in a roomful of people, I'm the Wilde-ist. --

[JohannGE]

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While the ability to instill the above characteristics at will might apear irrisistable, the potential social impacts are far reaching and suggest a society resembling that of the Eloi of H. G. Wells novel The Time Machine.

"How to wire your brain for religious ecstasy
By John Horgan

"Our current mystical technologies are primitive, but one day, neurotheologians may find a technology that gives us permanent, blissful self-transcendence with no side effects. Should we really welcome such a development? Recall that in the 1950s and 1960s, the CIA funded research on psychedelics because of their potential as brainwashing agents and truth serums.
Even setting aside the issue of control, mystical technologies raise troubling philosophical issues. Shulgin, the psychedelic chemist, once wrote that a perfect mystical technology would bring about "the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of the human experiment." When I asked Shulgin to elaborate, he said that if we achieve permanent mystical bliss, there would be "no motivation, no urge to change anything, no creativity." Both science and religion aim to eliminate suffering. But if a mystical technology makes us immune to anxiety, grief, and heartache, are we still fully human? Have we gained something or lost something? In short, would a truly effective mystical technology — a God machine that works — save us, or doom us?"
http://wireheading.com/brainstim/religious-ecstasy.html
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This is a profound issue -- it's true that a state of mind which is self-consciously considered to be perpetually novel is synonymous with a state of bliss. Whether it's perpetually novel in a *progressive*, enlightening way, or perpetually novel in a *static* or *regressive* way is another matter altogether -- certainly religion and mysticism can provide this state of bliss for people, but as materialists we have to question whether that's *societally* beneficial, or just a fancy mindfuck.

Chris

Precisely why I made the comment in bold above preceding the quote and link you refer to. It was not a recomendation!

I think you might have missed my point. That LSD eh... ;)

[ckaihatsu]

Precisely why I made the comment in bold above preceding the quote and link you refer to. It was not a recomendation!

I think you might have missed my point. That LSD eh... ;)


Yeah, if I missed your point, I'll, uh, blame the drugs...!


( 8^ o


= )


The thing I'm reminded of immediately from reading the Horgan excerpt is of people living in crowded squalor, in our consumer high-tech times, and being happy in those poor, cramped conditions.

Of course it's not the "happy" part I have a problem with -- it's that people can justify living in substandard conditions because their minds are consumed with the "mysteries" and psycho-drama of religious mysticism (or other ill-informed states of mind).

People who have a grip on how the world works would not be content to put up with bullshit, especially 2,000-year-old bullshit. We even reached the point in the 20th century where the average person is not obliged to either entertain, or require the labor of others to be entertained, for their leisure -- we have the availability of mass consumer culture for that.

So if it's bliss we're really after we don't have to stoop to ignorance for it, or demean others for it, either...!

It may even be measured by the microgram! (Kidding!)

[S.O.I]

Lol, shrooms.

!!

second third and forth

[Enragé]

Don't sleep for a week then smoke 2 joints and you'll trip your ass off. Not exactly LSD, more like psychosis, but hey, whatever floats your boat. More realistic illusions too, and who knows, you might even get to hear voices of people who aren't there.

[Patchd]

Be extremely careful with the type of cough medicine you buy because a lot of them have other ingredients that can make you really sick in large quanities (ie the quanities you'll be ingesting to trip). In the states, the best one to buy with the highest amount of DXM and no other chemicals in it that can make you sick is Delsym (it also tastes good). 'Robo-tripping' is a lot of fun.

Seconded. If you live in Britain, and you're looking to trying DXM, get the brand of cough medicine I gave: Benylin, Dry Cough, Non-Drowsy, comes in a Blue Packet, it contains nothing else except for DXM and glucose.

If you can get hold of some, do it with salvia, don't do this the first time you try either drug though. But the trip you get off it is intense! :D


I've done 2cb and it is a crazy trip, a very cool drug and unlike anything else I've tried. I've also done amt (my personal favorite) - its a mix between an acid trip and xtc roll, but without the crash of E.

Jealous! Dammit, by xtc roll you mean stuffing crushed E's in a spliff? I've smoked K before and that was really trippy, what is smoking E like on it's own?


The only time I've ever tripped off pot is at the tail end of an acid trip. I've eaten a lot and never tripped. I do enjoy eating it though.

We put around 6 grams of charas into a coffee and then some more into a banana smoothie, so if you have that much to spare, then give it a go. I wouldn't really recommend the coffee, but the banana smoothie one was brilliant. It might be the strain you used too, so try it with another strain next time if you're looking for a trip I guess :p ... dammit, be prepared to be stoned for the next two days though :lol:

[which doctor]

Jealous! Dammit, by xtc roll you mean stuffing crushed E's in a spliff? I've smoked K before and that was really trippy, what is smoking E like on it's own?
Anyone who smokes ecstacy is an idiot. A "roll" is just slang for an ecstacy pill.

[Alf]

To go back to the original question, it's worth looking at it historically. It seems to be that in societies previous to capitalism - in particular primitive society and the 'oriental' mode of production - an enormous amount of social resources were devoted precisely to developing the ability to enter 'LSD' like states, whether by using psychoactive plants or other techniques, such as drumming, dancing, or observation of the mental processes. I don't think that this has ever been sufficiently taken into account in our understanding of these societies and the way they viewed the world, or in the more general attempt to understand and explore the different states of consciousness that we inevitably experience as part of our history (collective and individual) as human beings.

[Oneironaut]

I prefer mushrooms to LSD because I prefer natural substances to man-made chemicals.

I take acid over mushrooms. Mushrooms have a tendency to really get into my head and force me into intense introspective trips. It's nice to have that every once in awhile but for me it can become rather exhausting. Acid on the other hand doesn't make me feel like my mind is raping itself and tends to keep me more relaxed. Acid has given me some of the most intense sensations of relaxation.

[DesertShark]

Jealous! Dammit, by xtc roll you mean stuffing crushed E's in a spliff? I've smoked K before and that was really trippy, what is smoking E like on it's own?


Anyone who smokes ecstacy is an idiot. A "roll" is just slang for an ecstacy pill.

"roll" or "rolling" is "slang" for the experience on the drug ecstasy (like 'trip' is LSD or mushrooms)

i would not smoke E...
i have smoked coke (not crack) in a bowl and in j's (both with marijuana), its pretty good [US drug slang for smoking coke with pot: in the midwest its called a '151', on the west coast its called a 'chewy']

[Djehuti]

Is it possible to experience it? I mean, are there some kind of binaural beats that can alter the brainwave patterns and thereby make us perceive the world differently? Space and time disappear if you take LSD, you feel like you're one with everything, your sensitivity increases tremendously, and all the rest.

Is it somehow possible to create the same conditions without resorting to LSD, but instead relying on sounds, sights, or anything else that might make the brain perceive in the same way? Put simply, is it possible to do away with drugs, and use some other method to create the chemical reactions/changes/whatever that actually bring about this experience?

That's would pretty much be a severe psychosis.

[natacha]

I've done acid around 20-25 times i'd guess, the last time about 2 years ago, and since then I've had 3 random acid trips from taking no acid, lasting about 2 hours each time, completely out of the blue! it's horrible mainly because when you take acid the thing you should always do is remember the reason why you feel like that is because you took something to make you feel that way, so when it's happened out of the blue i've felt absolutely crazy.

But yeah like someone said above you can get a similar feeling, or even ego-death, from meditiation, though it takes a long time to master, my friend had been doing it with his family since he was 10 and can travel all over the world like in a lucid dream. Meditation is great, when you wake up from meditation you feel like you've had the best sleep completely rejuvinated.