Alex Jones

[Voice_of_Reason]

What the fuck is up with this guy...

I mean I gave him a chance and I watched Behemian Grove... and wow I didn't realize that the government "worships the devil" and everything is an illusion. This guy is seriously insane and over 1 million active listeners..

So basically what I am asking is What the fuck...?

[Glorious Union]

I used to be in with that croud and honestly I think it was my first step towards communism. Give the people a chance, they are just hating on the US government but don't realize their place on the political spectrum so they go along with conspiracy theories and stuff. Well, that was the case with me at least. Can't say much for everybody else though.

[OriginalGumby]

It's scary though because he sort of represents a rightwing rejection. He's is anti immigrant and doesn't believe in global warming either. He is in with proto fascist Ron Paul who opposes womens rights, unions, public services. Yuck and supporters of Glenn Beck on his site too. Ewww

Socialist Worker Newspaper is much better and it is available online as well

[Dimentio]

What the fuck is up with this guy...

I mean I gave him a chance and I watched Behemian Grove... and wow I didn't realize that the government "worships the devil" and everything is an illusion. This guy is seriously insane and over 1 million active listeners..

So basically what I am asking is What the fuck...?

I think he is an American cultural phenomenon. Every country gets its own cultural-revolutionary mythology. In America, it seems that it has turned profoundly reactionary.

I mean, the American libertarians, survivalists and paleo-conservatives do not want an American Empire, but they don't identify the oppression in American imperialism or even capitalism, but rather in UN-imposed "communism" and "new world order". They have not recognised that the New World Order originated in their own country.

[Sean]

I mean, the American libertarians, survivalists and paleo-conservatives do not want an American Empire, but they don't identify the oppression in American imperialism or even capitalism, but rather in UN-imposed "communism" and "new world order". They have not recognised that the New World Order originated in their own country.
Nonesense. Everyone knows it was created on the planet Nibiru by space lizards.

[Some Red Guy]

The new world order is very real.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1166182/Brown-DOES-God-calls-new-world-order-sermon-St-Pauls.html?ITO=1490
This is only one example of powerful politicians using the exact phrase.
But I agree with Serpent, the "patriot movement" is wrong on so many levels. All those people fail to realise that communists do not want a global dictatorship. All Alex Jones does is to demonise the left with fear mongering and the Ron Paul cult keeps insisting there has never been capitalism and stuff like that. Maybe one day they'll realise the system itself is the enemy. not imaginary communists in the UN.

[Dimentio]

The new world order is very real.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1166182/Brown-DOES-God-calls-new-world-order-sermon-St-Pauls.html?ITO=1490
This is only one example of powerful politicians using the exact phrase.
But I agree with Serpent, the "patriot movement" is wrong on so many levels. All those people fail to realise that communists do not want a global dictatorship. All Alex Jones does is to demonise the left with fear mongering and the Ron Paul cult keeps insisting there has never been capitalism and stuff like that. Maybe one day they'll realise the system itself is the enemy. not imaginary communists in the UN.

Probably not. I guess Alex Jones has got quite wealthy over his radio show.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I guess Alex Jones has got quite wealthy over his radio show.

While this may be true, the guy does believe in what he talks about. He might be wealthy, but he is still crazy as fuck.

[Dimentio]

While this may be true, the guy does believe in what he talks about. He might be wealthy, but he is still crazy as fuck.

He is not crazier than most Americans. In fact, what has struck me with generic Americans I have encountered over the internet is that they tend to think that being opinionated is the same as having an argument, and that dominating the other participant through physical or verbal force is the same as winning an argument. He is also somewhat overweight. That is typically American.

[Yazman]

Alex Jones is ok with me. His analysis is a bit off sometimes but his information is generally the same sort of stuff we talk about, our analysis is just more complex and often more "correct."

I support him though because he is still an activist and he makes his documentaries available online for free, and even if some of the stuff he talks about is wrong, I think his heart is in the right place and he's turning people on, people who with a bit of information and exposure to OUR analysis will be turned on to revolutionary left politics quite easily.

I think Jones generally reports the facts, his analysis is often wrong, but he still targets the same people we do - he just analyses the phenomenon of a ruling class and its grip on power in a different way.

In that movement though you really do have to think critically and separate out the bullshit and disinfo agents from those who are genuinely trying to report on a corrupt ruling class/state. For example, Jeff Rense is clearly to be avoided. Jones is mostly ok though imo.

[Dimentio]

Alex Jones is ok with me. His analysis is a bit off sometimes but his information is generally the same sort of stuff we talk about, our analysis is just more complex and often more "correct."

I support him though because he is still an activist and he makes his documentaries available online for free, and even if some of the stuff he talks about is wrong, I think his heart is in the right place and he's turning people on, people who with a bit of information and exposure to OUR analysis will be turned on to revolutionary left politics quite easily.

I think Jones generally reports the facts, his analysis is often wrong, but he still targets the same people we do - he just analyses the phenomenon of a ruling class and its grip on power in a different way.

In that movement though you really do have to think critically and separate out the bullshit and disinfo agents from those who are genuinely trying to report on a corrupt ruling class/state. For example, Jeff Rense is clearly to be avoided. Jones is mostly ok though imo.

He is attacking them from a profoundly reactionary viewpoint. He is against them because they are "revolutionary", we oppose them because they are reactionary. Alex Jones is extremely right-wing.

[Sean]

Alex Jones is ok with me. His analysis is a bit off sometimes but his information is generally the same sort of stuff we talk about, our analysis is just more complex and often more "correct."

I support him though because he is still an activist and he makes his documentaries available online for free, and even if some of the stuff he talks about is wrong, I think his heart is in the right place and he's turning people on, people who with a bit of information and exposure to OUR analysis will be turned on to revolutionary left politics quite easily.

I think Jones generally reports the facts, his analysis is often wrong, but he still targets the same people we do - he just analyses the phenomenon of a ruling class and its grip on power in a different way.

In that movement though you really do have to think critically and separate out the bullshit and disinfo agents from those who are genuinely trying to report on a corrupt ruling class/state. For example, Jeff Rense is clearly to be avoided. Jones is mostly ok though imo.

I divide conspiracy nuts into three categories:


Professional SciFi pornographer: The type that spout bullshit about triangles UFOs space lizards and the like, and make a mint doing so. I actually like that guy Alex Jones' term for the most popular one, David Icke; a turd in the punchbowl. You have all these genuine facts that could come together, then someone like Icke goes around talking shit about the Queen mother being an intergallactic space lizard and, by association, tar all people who talk along the lines of conspiracy with the same brush, making a joke out of all of them. If there was a far out conspiracy I believe in, its that these people are encouraged by governments to speak out as loud as possible to drown out sane people on the same track.



Ass backwards conspiracist: They look at current events then work backwards and decide that everything must have been planned. US is in Afghanistan because of the attack on the world trade centre. This is favourable to the US, but rather than considering the war machine to be expert in opportunism, the Assbackwards conspiracist decides that this must mean that the government made the attacks happen so they could go to afghanistan. Cue 'Loose Change', podmen, and all the jews knowing about it and taking the day off.



No brakes conspiracist: The closest cousin to the genuinely informed cynic and critic. These people do their homework religiously and more thoroughly than the other two and let the facts speak for themselves. Their only problem is their mental block when they reach the top of the foodchain. They can't accept that these are just people driven by systems, and therefore at the last post stretch out to try and complete their pyramid of power. They aren't happy unless they can find one king evil doer sitting at the very top. In that way they are unwitting government apologists, they don't realise that the people are interchangeable cogs and that its the system itself that is the villain. Their conclusions are always shit, and many people just blindly swallow them since everything up to that point made perfect sense. Listening to these people is like having a riviting conversation with a man in a suit behind a desk, but when he stands up to see you out the door in conclusion, you realise hes wearing assless chaps and sporting a throbbing erection. Falls at the last post.

I'd put Alex Jones into the third category and I've spoken (thankfully only online) to some very intelligent people who can somehow read the like of Noam Chomsky and comprehend the Propaganda Model he and Hermann proposed while simulataenously swallowing Jones' bullshit logic defying ending.

If you have to symbolise power structures I'd use a web, but failing that, its closer to a ziggurat than a pyramid. I do think that these people can be one over though, just not the other two.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Ass backwards conspiracist: They look at current events then work backwards and decide that everything must have been planned. US is in Afghanistan because of the attack on the world trade centre. This is favourable to the US, but rather than considering the war machine to be expert in opportunism, the Assbackwards conspiracist decides that this must mean that the government made the attacks happen so they could go to afghanistan. Cue 'Loose Change', podmen, and all the jews knowing about it and taking the day off.

These are my favorite! (I do believe that 911 was a conspiracy theory though)

[couch13]

I rather enjoy Jones. He strikes me as highly intelligent, but off in his analysis. I think with alot of work, he could come around, and with him, his followers. I'm not up to trying though.

[mykittyhasaboner]

People are praising Alex Jones? Saying things like "his heart is in the right place", and "I rather enjoy Jones"?

Alex Jones is a reactionary, conservative, crazy conspiracy nut. He fucking thinks that "the big banks" somehow funded and created "communism", "to con the masses into a movement that was for "the establishment". He thinks that bankers are in an intricate plot to dominate the world (yet recent events show, the bankers aren't really up to par when it comes to managing their wealth), he rants on about how they have destroyed "our dollar" just like any conservative does. All this NWO nonsense is largely thanks to his tirades and phoney activism. I really wonder why anyone can find anything respectable or commendable about Alex Jones or any of his work.

[Dimentio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrJ1zIYfDLY&feature=related

[couch13]

People are praising Alex Jones? Saying things like "his heart is in the right place", and "I rather enjoy Jones"?

I meant that he's fun to listen to. Is that wrong? Should I not enjoy Fight Club because Fox Corporation is capitalist? Or should I give up reading books written by the reactionary, capitalist JRR Tolkien? Hell, should I stop watching Family Guy because it supports the democrat party?

[Invincible Summer]

He is not crazier than most Americans. .


Thought this video would be appropriate:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fan72an98yU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fan72an98yU

[mykittyhasaboner]

I meant that he's fun to listen to. Is that wrong?
He is quite obnoxious in my opinion, all he does is rant on and on, not doing anything of use. I guess its not entirely wrong, just kind of contradictory considering that hes a far right conspiracy theorist, who thinks socialism is just one big banking conspiracy.


Should I not enjoy Fight Club because Fox Corporation is capitalist? Or should I give up reading books written by the reactionary, capitalist JRR Tolkien? Hell, should I stop watching Family Guy because it supports the democrat party?
None of this is in any way relevant.

[couch13]

He is quite obnoxious in my opinion, all he does is rant on and on, not doing anything of use. I guess its not entirely wrong, just kind of contradictory considering that hes a far right conspiracy theorist, who thinks socialism is just one big banking conspiracy.

Its not contradictory, its entertaining to listening to a nut like him.


None of this is in any way relevant.

Actually it is. All these people have agenda's in their forms of media that run counter to leftism, much as Jone's agenda does. Each one propagates a system that I disagree with, yet I still enjoy them. Its all the same thing.

[Yazman]

He is attacking them from a profoundly reactionary viewpoint. He is against them because they are "revolutionary", we oppose them because they are reactionary. Alex Jones is extremely right-wing.

I've never heard him describe them as revolutionary at all! In fact he thinks that they want to reinforce authoritarian capitalism, until it eventually develops into fascism (and that this could take on a global form).

He is off in his analysis but he targets the same people we do, for the same reasons. he targets capitalists who do hold a lot of power (maybe not the sort of power he thinks they hold, though), and often do support fascist movements. He targets the right people (capitalists), and for the right reasons (they're too powerful and need to be eliminated) - but his analysis is totally incorrect (they are powerful but I doubt they are aiming for a fascist world government).


He fucking thinks that "the big banks" somehow funded and created "communism", "to con the masses into a movement that was for "the establishment".

He generally equates all communists with Leninists, and you can make a good argument that - redstar2000 did this all the time - that the only purpose Leninism serves is to pave the way for modern capitalism.


He thinks that bankers are in an intricate plot to dominate the world (yet recent events show, the bankers aren't really up to par when it comes to managing their wealth), he rants on about how they have destroyed "our dollar" just like any conservative does.

He doesn't just target bankers, but corporations as well as governments. He thinks that the bankers are "on top" but that they collaborate with states and corps in order to enforce their agenda. On some occasions he is correct - they do collaborate with each other and nobody can really deny this! Where he is wrong, however, is that this collaboration doesn't mean at these meetings they are discussing how to implement a fascist world government or how to destroy the economic system. He targets the right people for the right reasons - but the conclusions he arrives at, are generally wrong.


All this NWO nonsense is largely thanks to his tirades and phoney activism.

The idea of an "NWO" in the conspiracy world is nothing new and goes all the way back to the early 20th century, decades before his parents ever thought of having children.

With your video that you linked, Serpent: I don't see that as anything particularly bizarre. A man who wants to see change in society is pissed off that most people don't seem to give a fuck about the fucked up shit the government does on a daily basis. This isn't something "unique to Alex Jones" or his side of the modern anti-government movements in the rich countries. In fact I think vanguards, a core concept of Leninism, are built on this very premise - that the people are "zombies" who need to be educated and led to revolution by a small group of intellectuals. I don't necessarily agree that all people are mindless idiots, although I can sympathise with the anger at nobody giving a fuck about the messed up shit we see. Seriously, the government can pull off things like MKULTRA, ECHELON, Project Paperclip, Northwoods, bombing civilians in pakistan, the patriot act, etc. and barely 10,000 people protest about it? It really is fucking ridiculous and so I can totally understand an angry rant about how mindless people can seem.

[Dimentio]

I meant that he's fun to listen to. Is that wrong? Should I not enjoy Fight Club because Fox Corporation is capitalist? Or should I give up reading books written by the reactionary, capitalist JRR Tolkien? Hell, should I stop watching Family Guy because it supports the democrat party?

Tolkien was anti-capitalist. He saw capitalism as "too revolutionary". Tolkien could be described as an "anarcho-monarchist". He wanted mutualism combined with an archaic monarchy.

[pastradamus]

Alex Jones is not a moron nor is he insane to any extent. He's simply an entertainer. He's made a fortune off publications and his radio shows as well as documentaries. He's an entertainer who saw a gap in the market and used a load of conspiracy theories to make money - plain and simple. Its like when a magician performs a trick and pretends there is something Magical about what he/she did.

Though his content is complete waffle and made-up fairy tales and lies he makes a much better argument than Bill O Reilly on Fox News I my opinion. :D

[couch13]

Tolkien was anti-capitalist. He saw capitalism as "too revolutionary". Tolkien could be described as an "anarcho-monarchist". He wanted mutualism combined with an archaic monarchy.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that.

[BOZG]

I used to be in with that croud and honestly I think it was my first step towards communism. Give the people a chance, they are just hating on the US government but don't realize their place on the political spectrum so they go along with conspiracy theories and stuff. Well, that was the case with me at least. Can't say much for everybody else though.


The fact that people like Alex Jones, 9/11 Truth and all the other assorted conspiracy campaigns do get a limited but significant hearing is in some ways a progressive thing. The rise of the conspiracy movement shows that there is a section of people who have no trust or no faith in their government. They don't find it beyond belief that governments would consciously intervene to manipulate events to their own benefit. That isn't necessarily a reactionary thing automatically. It's a sign of people looking for an alternative. Unfortunately, because of the weakness of the left, they end up wandering into the swamp of conspiracies rather than of socialism.

I still think Alex Jones is a fucking nutjob though. :P

[The Idler]

Alex Jones is a former Republican candidate (2000) and called Chomsky a New World Order Shill who warns of a North American Union as an imminent threat from Mexico and Canada. There is a very good article at Workers' Liberty about the 9/11 Truth movement here (http://www.workersliberty.org/node/8238).
...an idealistic view about liberal democracy which is very common among the “truth movement”: Elected representatives are there to carry out the will of the people and to look after their well being, aren’t they? If our needs and desires are neglected by those representatives the only explanation is that there must be someone who secretly prevents them from doing their job — either by cheating, or by corrupting them.

[Dimentio]

Alex Jones is a former Republican candidate (2000) and called Chomsky a New World Order Shill who warns of a North American Union as an imminent threat from Mexico and Canada. There is a very good article at Workers' Liberty about the 9/11 Truth movement here (http://www.workersliberty.org/node/8238).

I find the fear that Canada and Mexico would "annex" the USA insane.


It would be like if the English upon the seizure of Ireland had protested that Britain would be Irish.

Or if the Romans had rebelled when they annexed Gaul because they would have viewed it as a Gallic annexation of Rome!

[jake williams]

The thing I insist on bringing up whenever there's an Alex Jones thread is that the basic views he hold are very popular in the general American working class, and for good reason. They are the synthesis of the reactionary national ideology of the centre of global capitalism, a country which itself was founded on a particularly recent and particularly vicious genocide - and, on the other hand, the fact that it doesn't totally slip the notice of working people that they are being oppressed by powerful people. I think that folks like Alex Jones, or perhaps more specifically his fans, are exactly what one gets when oppressed people aren't given rational explanations for their very deep and severe oppression. It should be very easy to understand why people find ideas like his attractive, we should be sympathetic, and we should try to help them get a clearer more sensible view of the world. In fact, I often say similar things about a lot of people carelessly classified as "fascists".

[Dimentio]

The thing I insist on bringing up whenever there's an Alex Jones thread is that the basic views he hold are very popular in the general American working class, and for good reason. They are the synthesis of the reactionary national ideology of the centre of global capitalism, a country which itself was founded on a particularly recent and particularly vicious genocide - and, on the other hand, the fact that it doesn't totally slip the notice of working people that they are being oppressed by powerful people. I think that folks like Alex Jones, or perhaps more specifically his fans, are exactly what one gets when oppressed people aren't given rational explanations for their very deep and severe oppression. It should be very easy to understand why people find ideas like his attractive, we should be sympathetic, and we should try to help them get a clearer more sensible view of the world. In fact, I often say similar things about a lot of people carelessly classified as "fascists".

With all respect, but fascism usually is what we get when we have no socialist movement and a deep resentment in a particular nation.

[jake williams]

fascism usually is what we get when we have no socialist movement and a deep resentment in a particular nation.
Sure.

[The Idler]

I find the fear that Canada and Mexico would "annex" the USA insane.


It would be like if the English upon the seizure of Ireland had protested that Britain would be Irish.

Or if the Romans had rebelled when they annexed Gaul because they would have viewed it as a Gallic annexation of Rome!
Citizens of the USA are repeatedly told the US is under threat from many foreign countries. Rarely are they told they are the biggest military spender in the world by a massive margin with more than enough capability to defend themselves from any other country invading them.

[Dimentio]

Citizens of the USA are repeatedly told the US is under threat from many foreign countries. Rarely are they told they are the biggest military spender in the world by a massive margin with more than enough capability to defend themselves from any other country invading them.

So, the Americans view themselves as a small, weak nation?

[Rosa Provokateur]

I like him; he's rough along the edges but gets a good number of people thinking. He had a really good part in this movie I saw called Waking Life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfEuSNejejY

[Rosa Provokateur]

So, the Americans view themselves as a small, weak nation?

No but the State works hard to make us feel insecure about ourselves.

[The Idler]

So, the Americans view themselves as a small, weak nation?
Well, Fox News would have viewers believe they are more vulnerable to foreign attacks than they actually are.

[juozokas]

He is off in his analysis but he targets the same people we do, for the same reasons. he targets capitalists who do hold a lot of power (maybe not the sort of power he thinks they hold, though), and often do support fascist movements. He targets the right people (capitalists), and for the right reasons (they're too powerful and need to be eliminated) - but his analysis is totally incorrect (they are powerful but I doubt they are aiming for a fascist world government).

From a communist standpoint, this is not commendable. Capital is a social relation that needs to be eliminated, not a bunch of capitalists and rich men that need to be dethroned.



With your video that you linked, Serpent: I don't see that as anything particularly bizarre. A man who wants to see change in society is pissed off that most people don't seem to give a fuck about the fucked up shit the government does on a daily basis. This isn't something "unique to Alex Jones" or his side of the modern anti-government movements in the rich countries. In fact I think vanguards, a core concept of Leninism, are built on this very premise - that the people are "zombies" who need to be educated and led to revolution by a small group of intellectuals. I don't necessarily agree that all people are mindless idiots, although I can sympathise with the anger at nobody giving a fuck about the messed up shit we see. Seriously, the government can pull off things like MKULTRA, ECHELON, Project Paperclip, Northwoods, bombing civilians in pakistan, the patriot act, etc. and barely 10,000 people protest about it? It really is fucking ridiculous and so I can totally understand an angry rant about how mindless people can seem.

AFAIK Alex Jones' is only (ostensibly) concerned with the state's actions as far as they impact upon his freedoms - real or imagined. For example, his gripes with the FTAA does not spring from some concern for the third world, nor from a critique of imperialism (as far as we are concerned), but rather from a feeling that it has somehow undermined 'national sovereignity' and is part of a secret plot to instate world government.

As others have said he has nothing whatsoever to offer the working class except nationalism and reactionary ideas about "freedom", immigrants, etc.