Things I have learned in high school about communism.

[Glorious Union]

As the school year comes to a close I thought I would go over and review the things I have learned about communism in history class.

1. Communism is a religion.
2. Communists enjoy wearing white suits.
3. Communists are all racists.
4. Hitler was a communist.
5. Stalin helped Hitler with the holocaust.
6. Communists want more cameras in the world.
7. Communism is a death cult.
8. Communists enjoy killing people in their leisure time.
9. Communists have odd sexual interests.
10. Communists want to make porn illegal.
11. Communists want to make porn available to everyone everwhere.
12. Communists like the colour red because it symbolizes death.
13. Communists enjoy military parades.
14. Communism is a genetic deformity.
15. Communists hate mopeds.
16. Communists prefer dirt roads over paved roads.
17. Communists enjoy eating rice, cabbage, and stale bread.
18. Communists hate the upper class.
19. Communists hate the middle class.
20. Communists love the working class.
21. Communists spend most of their lives building tanks and AK47s.
22. Communists are always Russian, Chinese, or Cuban.
23. Communism makes money simply stop existing which makes everybody poor.
24. Communism is a disease you can catch from communists.
25. Communists hate freedom, and enjoy being opressed and enslaved.


Just though that would generate a few lols.
BTW this is stuff the history teacher has actually told the student, all jokes aside.

[GPDP]

Ah, yes. The shit you learn about communism in high school.

Meanwhile, most of my professors in college seem to be radical leftists or Marxists, or at least sympathetic to such beliefs.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Yep. I'm in my last year of high school and I have heard many of these things as well. Absolutely ridiculous. Oh the ignorance! At least I hear college professors are more sympathetic.

[Trystan]

Numbers 2., 9., 11., 15., and 18., are, in my case, all true.

[Dóchas]

i think it can be safely said that we have all experienced most if not all of those :lol:

[Os Cangaceiros]

One of my teachers in high school actually fought against "the commies" in Vietnam, and often reminded the students of that fact.

In fact, one of the insults he used in class towards students he disliked was "Communist!" :lol:

[Bright Banana Beard]

You are missing anarchy/anarchist. I am going to weep. NOT!

but yeah, those what I learned in high school.

[GPDP]

One of my teachers in high school actually fought against "the commies" in Vietnam, and often reminded the students of that fact.

In fact, one of the insults he used in class towards students he disliked was "Communist!" :lol:

Wow, what an asshole.

One of my professors is also a Vietnam veteran, but he's a solid leftist through and through, though not a communist per se. He never talks about how he "fought the commies", either, mostly because he had enough sense even back then to filter the propaganda through.

Interesting how veterans of that war tend to become either fierce right-wing anti-communists or staunch anti-war, anti-imperialist leftists.

[synthesis]

Interesting how veterans of that war tend to become either fierce right-wing anti-communists or staunch anti-war, anti-imperialist leftists.

Or homeless schizophrenics.

Just saying...

[RedDragon]

These are pretty much the same things I hear about communism in school (although not to such an extent). The general idea is that communism=evil. When my politics teacher learned of my communist beliefs she wasn't too impressed. She then went on to use the 'human nature' argument. I sighed and died a little inside.

[Glorious Union]

You are missing anarchy/anarchist. I am going to weep. NOT!

but yeah, those what I learned in high school.

Nobody ever thinks of that because the USA has never been at war with a country claiming to be anarchist.



These are pretty much the same things I hear about communism in school (although not to such an extent). The general idea is that communism=evil. When my politics teacher learned of my communist beliefs she wasn't too impressed. She then went on to use the 'human nature' argument. I sighed and died a little inside.


lol:laugh:
Same here.

[NecroCommie]

I find ignorance to be frustrating more than funny. Ignorance has done much more evil in this world than malevolence.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Soviet Communism vs. American Democracy?

http://broward.flvs.net/webdav/educator_amhist_v8/module09/imagmod09/09_07a_02.jpgCommunism (http://broward.flvs.net/webdav/educator_amhist_v8/module09/09_07a_a.htm)is a form of government in which a single party controls the economy and means of production. After the Russian Revolution in 1917, a communist government emerged, first under the control of Vladimir Lenin and later Joseph Stalin, and formed the United Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR or Soviet Union). Communism was in direct conflict with the American system of capitalism in which there is free enterprise, and democracy (http://broward.flvs.net/webdav/educator_amhist_v8/module09/09_07a_a.htm) where the government is controlled by the people.
In the aftermath of WW II, the United States and the Soviet Union emerged as the two world superpowers. Each country was able to produce as much as the rest of the world’s combined production capacity. While the two were strategic allies during WW II, the years immediately following the war showed a huge division in Soviet and American foreign policy. These fundamental differences, combined with the two nation’s development of nuclear weapons, led to a conflict known as the Cold War, which lasted for nearly 45 years. The political and military tension between democracy and communism were known as the Cold War (http://broward.flvs.net/webdav/educator_amhist_v8/module09/09_07a_a.htm).

-------------

Directly from a history (or lack of) lesson. Speaks for itself.

[danyboy27]

most of those are crap but 18 19 and 20 sound really true.

[GracchusBabeuf]

1. Communism is a religion.
2. Communists enjoy wearing white suits.

5. Stalin helped Hitler with the holocaust.
6. Communists want more cameras in the world.
7. Communism is a death cult.
8. Communists enjoy killing people in their leisure time.
9. Communists have odd sexual interests.
10. Communists want to make porn illegal.
11. Communists want to make porn available to everyone everwhere.
12. Communists like the colour red because it symbolizes death.
13. Communists enjoy military parades.
14. Communism is a genetic deformity.
15. Communists hate mopeds.
16. Communists prefer dirt roads over paved roads.
17. Communists enjoy eating rice, cabbage, and stale bread.

21. Communists spend most of their lives building tanks and AK47s.
22. Communists are always Russian, Chinese, or Cuban.
23. Communism makes money simply stop existing which makes everybody poor.
24. Communism is a disease you can catch from communists.
25. Communists hate freedom, and enjoy being opressed and enslaved.
Thats all true ;)

[Yopuii]

Surprisingly my High School has some left leaning teachers. As opposed to propaganda we're told communism is a theoretically better system that in practical use hasn't succeeded, yet. Most of my history classes have been about why organisations like the NSA and Homeland Security are bad. :)

[Nietzsche's Ghost]

Wow. I guess I must consider myself lucky. My history teachers either agree that communism is the perfect system (but don't think it will work because of "human nature") or are very open to it (I have my world history teacher reading anarchist literature:D).

[Tjis]

My introduction to communism was in a history lesson in elementary school. I think I was 8 or 9, and the subject was (of course) the cold war. Our teacher was nice enough to explain the basic thought behind communism: A stateless society where everyone worked together to get what they needed, without being told to do so. Of course, that was immediately followed by an explanation of why this could never work ("With communism everyone would get a 7 for all their tests, no matter how hard they studied!" was her argument :p), and then we moved on to how horrible the USSR was.
I've been a communist ever since though because of that initial explanation :).

[GPDP]

Wow. I guess I must consider myself lucky. My history teachers either agree that communism is the perfect system (but don't think it will work because of "human nature") or are very open to it (I have my world history teacher reading anarchist literature:D).

And in Kansas, no less.

But I'm in Texas, which isn't a whole lot better.

[Dejavu]

What I remember from high school:

-Communism is evil
-Communism enslaves millions
-Communism is what is practiced in the USSR
-Communism is extreme socialism
-Communist colors are read symbolizing a type of socialism since the socialist flag is red.

By contrast , Socialism was treated a lot better :

-Pure socialism is bad , Socialism mixed in with capitalism creates the ideal society
- A degree of socialism is necessary for a civilized society.
-Socialism has been tainted by authoritarian communists
- Socialism means huge state involvement in the public sector and regulation of the private sector which is seen as good.
-Capitalism is generally worse than socialism but both are needed to temper each other.
- Capitalism and Socialism have a baby , its called Social Democracy.

[#FF0000]

25. Communists hate freedom, and enjoy being opressed and enslaved.

I hated hearing this one. I mean, come on, what goes on in my bedroom is my business and has nothing to do with my politics. :cursing:


FAKE EDIT: Oh dear I think I misunderstood you.

[Robert]

things I have learned about communism in history class.You are either bullshitting to ingratiate yourself with communists on this board or your teacher needs to be reported to the school board for an enquiry into her credentials and mental health; I have never once heard most of the things on that list, even from ardent anti-communists.

If you can cite us to an approved history textbook that you used where these claims were made, I would like to see it and will apologize for doubting you.

I hope you aren't saying that the teacher merely mentioned these things as examples of absurd claims that have been made by ignoramuses over the years.

[LOLseph Stalin]

One of my teachers in high school actually fought against "the commies" in Vietnam, and often reminded the students of that fact.

In fact, one of the insults he used in class towards students he disliked was "Communist!" http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-t105295/revleft/smilies2/laugh.gif

Haha, harsh! Unfortunately I sometimes hear the word "Jew" used as an insult. :(
It's quite interesting that your teacher was a Vietnam veteran as my grandpa was a Korea veteran. For that reason I can never tell him i'm Communist...

[Jack]

My books "glossary" defines Communism as: A system where the government owns the means of production".

[Coggeh]

As the school year comes to a close I thought I would go over and review the things I have learned about communism in history class.

1. Communism is a religion.
2. Communists enjoy wearing white suits.
3. Communists are all racists.
4. Hitler was a communist.
5. Stalin helped Hitler with the holocaust.
6. Communists want more cameras in the world.
7. Communism is a death cult.
8. Communists enjoy killing people in their leisure time.
9. Communists have odd sexual interests.
10. Communists want to make porn illegal.
11. Communists want to make porn available to everyone everwhere.
12. Communists like the colour red because it symbolizes death.
13. Communists enjoy military parades.
14. Communism is a genetic deformity.
15. Communists hate mopeds.
16. Communists prefer dirt roads over paved roads.
17. Communists enjoy eating rice, cabbage, and stale bread.
18. Communists hate the upper class.
19. Communists hate the middle class.
20. Communists love the working class.
21. Communists spend most of their lives building tanks and AK47s.
22. Communists are always Russian, Chinese, or Cuban.
23. Communism makes money simply stop existing which makes everybody poor.
24. Communism is a disease you can catch from communists.
25. Communists hate freedom, and enjoy being opressed and enslaved.


Just though that would generate a few lols.
BTW this is stuff the history teacher has actually told the student, all jokes aside.
I could tick off a few that are actually true .

This one for example
9. Communists have odd sexual interests.
Weird?yes

Awesome ? Also yes:thumbup:

[LOLseph Stalin]

My books "glossary" defines Communism as: A system where the government owns the means of production".

lolwut? :confused:

Even the books hate us!

[GracchusBabeuf]

My books "glossary" defines Communism as: A system where the government owns the means of production".That is communism because that is what the Soviet Union did. If you disagree with that, it is because you are either

Anti-communist
Anti-capitalist

[brigadista]

er hate mopeds? what the....? that really is weird

[Jack]

lolwut? :confused:

Even the books hate us!

I'm pulling out the book right now, to show you some rediculous things:

Nationalism: A sense of pride and devotion to a nation

Labor Movement: Reform movement working to secure higher wages, shorter hours, and better working conditions. (note how it says "Reform")

Free Speech Movement: Counterculture movement during the 1960's

Division of Labor: When certain people do certain kinds of work

Communists: People who want equal division of wealth and the end of all private property.

Anarchist: Radicals who beleive in the destruction of government.

Spanish Civil War: Spain in the mid 1930's was troubled by fierce political conflict. On the left were Communists. On the right were Fascists and Nationalists. Most Spaniards help political beleifs inbetwen these extremes.

American Reaction (to the Russian Revolution): Many Americans were baffled and frightened by communism. The Soviets called for the overthrow of capitalism. But most Americans embraced the ideals of capitalism, including the freedom to own property. They calued the opportunity to better themselves by hard work or ingenuity.

Every goddamn thing in the book is about "reforms" and "progressivism".

Sucks.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Ok, Jack your book is biased beyond belief. Do you happen to live in a Conservative area by any chance?

[Glorious Union]

You are either bullshitting to ingratiate yourself with communists on this board or your teacher needs to be reported to the school board for an enquiry into her credentials and mental health; I have never once heard most of the things on that list, even from ardent anti-communists.

If you can cite us to an approved history textbook that you used where these claims were made, I would like to see it and will apologize for doubting you.

I hope you aren't saying that the teacher merely mentioned these things as examples of absurd claims that have been made by ignoramuses over the years.

We don't use the text books, everything in history class is taught straight from the mouth of the history teacher. History is so unimportant to our school that they actually get the football coaches to teach it, and they don't know what they are talking about for the most part. If I were to report this to the school board the teacher would not be removed, but would receive a slap on the wrist so that they can say they did something about the problem, and then it would go on like it always did.

And yes, the teacher has said each of these things in class, claiming them to be truth. In fact, I still remember the introduction he made to this unit on communism word for word. He said "Communism is a religion, it is a cult, and it is a method of slavery. In a communistic world you get told where to live, what to eat, and where to work. The government owns everything an everybody. Everyone gets paid the same amount, from janitors to doctors and lawyers. They choose who you get married to and when you get to have sex. Communism is complete control of the government over the people."


er hate mopeds? what the....? that really is weird


Yeah, the teacher actually said that the Communist Vietnam invaded Democratic Vietnam because the democratic side had mopeds and cars, while the communist side beleived that nobody had the right to own such things.


lolwut? :confused:

Even the books hate us!

What can you expect? Just look at who wrote them or, better yet, why they wrote them. I don't think they really cared about giving children a proper education in leftist ideas when the text books were written.

[LOLseph Stalin]

And yes, the teacher has said each of these things in class, claiming them to be truth. In fact, I still remember the introduction he made to this unit on communism word for word. He said "Communism is a religion, it is a cult, and it is a method of slavery. In a communistic world you get told where to live, what to eat, and where to work. The government owns everything an everybody. Everyone gets paid the same amount, from janitors to doctors and lawyers. They choose who you get married to and when you get to have sex. Communism is complete control of the government over the people."


This is beginning to sound like 1984 all over again...


What can you expect? Just look at who wrote them or, better yet, why they wrote them. I don't think they really cared about giving children a proper education in leftist ideas when the text books were written.

Yea, true. At least in university next year one of our required readings for first year political science is the Communist Manifesto.

[Jack]

Ok, Jack your book is biased beyond belief. Do you happen to live in a Conservative area by any chance?

The Haymarket Riot: In Haymarket Square in Chicago, crowds gathered to protest violent police action at a strike the day before. Suddenly, someone threw a bomb into the crows. People panicked and gunfire rang out. Before the situation calmed, 11 people lost their lives and more than 100 suffered injuries.
People immediately blamed foreign-born unionists for the violence. The press fanned the flamed of this xenophobia. Police arrested and charged 8 men with conspiracy and murder. All had foreign-sounding names.

[Comrade_XRD]

Yeah, this is all true. I could remember back when I was in middle school and I thought the USSR was some kind of Russian Nazi movement. All I remember was all my history teachers telling my class that Communism is as evil as Nazism and that we shouldn't allow "commies" in the US.

[Pirate Utopian]

My schoolbook doesnt mention anarchism at all not even in the Spanish civil war bit.

[LOLseph Stalin]

My schoolbook doesnt mention anarchism at all not even in the Spanish civil war bit.


My book mentioned both Anarchism and the Spanish Civil War. :P

[Pirate Utopian]

The Spanish civil war is in there, but only really shortly, not even it's own paragraph.

[Hit The North]

American high school sucks. Here in Blighty, my history teacher loaned me his copy of Marx and Engels The Communist Manifesto when I was fourteen. He changed my life.

[LOLseph Stalin]

American high school sucks. Here in Blighty, my history teacher loaned me his copy of Marx and Engels The Communist Manifesto when I was fourteen. He changed my life.

Nice! I had to read it online when I stumbled upon it while researching Communism after hearing my history teacher talk about it.

[Brother No. 1]

Capitalists dont know anything about our Ideal, only from what their goverments have told them, and see us as the "Villains of the world." the american view as they see they are born in a world where " the good guys always win." they see them selfs the hero and the CCCP the villain. the CCCP is acutal the hero for it gave its citizens Human rights as it says in its own consitution. the Soviet Union also doesnt allow discrimation as the Western Countries do. In shot answer: That idea is backwards. Capitalists hate freedom and love to be boss to opress and enslave people.

[Communist Theory]

Yes this is what my Civics teacher tought me. What is really ironic is that he looks like Leon Trotsky and he loved to go on and on in class about the evils of Stalin. He thinks he is ex-CIA and talks about that alot too.

[Brother No. 1]

can he give proof of the "evils of Stalin" or does he just blab on about what he is sayng?

[LOLseph Stalin]

Capitalists hate freedom and love to be boss to opress and enslave people.

We just talked about that general idea at school today. The Americans monopolized sugar and banana production in Guetamala(I think it was in the 70's, but I can't remember). With this the Guetamalans were pretty much reduced to slaves in their own country. They were producing the sugar and bananas and the Americans got all the money because of the monopoly. A Socialist government took power which the Americans automatically labeled as "Communist" and "evil". This story made me upset.

[Brother No. 1]

America is the Evil of the world and doesnt suprise me. The "USA" is nothing more then a backwards Capitalists society that has nothing to live for but War and fighting who ever questions it.

[Robert]

Sorry you are learning at the feet of Neanderthals. But your school sounds like an aberration, and whether it is or isn't, your coach and school board need to review the ideals of the National Board of Teaching Standards, which describes the accomplished social sciences teacher:

In addition to understanding a free market
economy, teachers are familiar with other
basic economic models, such as command
economies and traditional economies. They
understand the basic ideas of Marxist
economics and can compare those ideas with
what actually takes place in communist
countries. They understand the concept of
socialism and can explain the way it is mani-
fest in different nations.

Your teachers here will complain that there never has been a communist country. Never mind. Why not send the above quote to your principal, with a copy to the local newspaper, with the complaint that Coach doesn't seem to know his social sciences. Or his ass.

Better yet, why don't you challenge him in class? "But coach, what is Marxism and how exactly did the Soviet model differ? I know you know this because a) you're an accomplished teacher; and b) the National Board of Teaching Standards says you therefore must know this?"

Oh, and good luck with him in gym class that afternoon. :)

[Communist Theory]

can he give proof of the "evils of Stalin" or does he just blab on about what he is sayng?
He blabs on going on about the gulags and how Stalin and Hitler were bedfellows. I asked him if he was Trotsky's nephew or something once and he went batshit insane.

[Robert]

The "USA" is nothing more then a backwards Capitalists society that has nothing to live for but War and fighting who ever questions it.The USA, and your home state of Texas particularly, produced ZZ Top, Dell Computers, Sissy Spacek, Buddy Holly, Stevie Ray Vaughan, them Cowboys, Aggie jokes, and fried ice cream from the "GREAT STATE FAIR, AT TEXASSSSSSSS." Thanks to you Texans for all of the above.

There's more to the USA than bullshit politics, as you know. Take a bow.

[Jack]

I know this is going to make me sound hardcore, but my mom bought the Manifesto for me when I was 12.

Of course when I read "bourgeois" I pronounced it as "boorgus".

[Jack]

Also, in the 3rd and 7th grade I had the same teacher for a class. She had us read some story about a world where everyone is dragged down to the intellectual, and physical level of the lowest person in society. She then enlightened us saying "this is what Communism is".

[Brother No. 1]

Then the man is a complete lunitic and should just be avoided.

[Jack]

I can't find the stroy online. It has something to do with some really strong smart guy and a ballerina who rebel or some crap.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Also, in the 3rd and 7th grade I had the same teacher for a class. She had us read some story about a world where everyone is dragged down to the intellectual, and physical level of the lowest person in society. She then enlightened us saying "this is what Communism is".

You guys learn about "Communism" that young? It wasn't even mentioned to me until like 11th grade. I didn't even really know what it was before then.


I know this is going to make me sound hardcore, but my mom bought the Manifesto for me when I was 12.

Of course when I read "bourgeois" I pronounced it as "boorgus".

Wow, just wow! Was there a reason your mom bought you the Manifesto at age 12?

[Brother No. 1]

5th grade I learned Communism from my dad. 6th grade I learned about the CCCP,PRc, and ect.

[LOLseph Stalin]

5th grade I learned Communism from my dad. 6th grade I learned about the CCCP,PRc, and ect.

Your parents must be pretty awesome if they're teaching you about Communism. :lol::thumbup1:

[Brother No. 1]

Dad came from the Polish Peoples Republic. My mom just accepted this and was gla di chose something I really liked.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Dad came from the Polish Peoples Republic. My mom just accepted this and was gla di chose something I really liked.

So is your dad Communist too?

[Communist Theory]

Also, in the 3rd and 7th grade I had the same teacher for a class. She had us read some story about a world where everyone is dragged down to the intellectual, and physical level of the lowest person in society. She then enlightened us saying "this is what Communism is".
Yep thats Communism.

[Brother No. 1]

Yep. Born in the Polish Peoples Republic and came here seeing the Capitalist propaganda about this place at the last second. We make jokes on the US all the time and have a few laughs.

[Glorious Union]

I know this is going to make me sound hardcore, but my mom bought the Manifesto for me when I was 12.

Of course when I read "bourgeois" I pronounced it as "boorgus".

Wish my parents were like that. I can guarantee that if I ever have children of my own I will hand them the Communist Manifesto as soon as they are able to read. :D


Sorry you are learning at the feet of Neanderthals. But your school sounds like an aberration, and whether it is or isn't, your coach and school board need to review the ideals of the National Board of Teaching Standards, which describes the accomplished social sciences teacher:

In addition to understanding a free market
economy, teachers are familiar with other
basic economic models, such as command
economies and traditional economies. They
understand the basic ideas of Marxist
economics and can compare those ideas with
what actually takes place in communist
countries. They understand the concept of
socialism and can explain the way it is mani-
fest in different nations.

Your teachers here will complain that there never has been a communist country. Never mind. Why not send the above quote to your principal, with a copy to the local newspaper, with the complaint that Coach doesn't seem to know his social sciences. Or his ass.

Better yet, why don't you challenge him in class? "But coach, what is Marxism and how exactly did the Soviet model differ? I know you know this because a) you're an accomplished teacher; and b) the National Board of Teaching Standards says you therefore must know this?"

Oh, and good luck with him in gym class that afternoon. :)

Just because they have to know how the system works does not mean they have to teach it that way. Also, here in the USA each state has a different education system, so unless those rules were from the Texas board of administration I don't see how they could apply to our teachers.

I have challenged him in class, as seen in this thread:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/american-patriotism-class-t100914/index.html?t=100914
He's really good at turning things around on me in class. I have tried talking to him outside of class and he still doesn't back down from his position. There is no doubt in my mind that he solidly beleives everything he is teaching to us.


Also, in the 3rd and 7th grade I had the same teacher for a class. She had us read some story about a world where everyone is dragged down to the intellectual, and physical level of the lowest person in society. She then enlightened us saying "this is what Communism is".

OH I REMEMBER THAT ONE!!!! We read it last year!! They actually said "that is what socialism is" at the end, and had us write an essay about how bad socialists have it in Canada and elsewhere. I'll try and look it up in my brother's english book as he is now in the class I read that in.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Wish my parents were like that. I can guarantee that if I ever have children of my own I will hand them the Communist Manifesto as soon as they are able to read. http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-p1402004/revleft/smilies/biggrin.gif

Me too comrade. I will also be warning them about Capitalist propaganda.

[Brother No. 1]

Most of my teachers view Communism as a evil system then I just politicaly agure with them.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Most of my teachers view Communism as a evil system then I just politicaly agure with them.

One of my teachers has probably caught on to the fact that i'm Communist, but he doesn't seem to mind.

[Brother No. 1]

All of my teachers know I'm communist for I have Texas and US histroy. Sooner r later I'm going to get into a Soviet Union Argument with them.

[LOLseph Stalin]

All of my teachers know I'm communist for I have Texas and US histroy. Sooner r later I'm going to get into a Soviet Union Argument with them.

Well I have other teachers who possibly have suspicions, especially my English teacher as I wrote an Anti-Capitalist essay. I got a good mark surprisingly.

[Brother No. 1]

Well she cant give you a F for writting a Anti-Cpitalist essay. I wrote a Pro-Communist essay and I got 90%.

[Jack]

My history teacher jokes with me, everytime I hand him an essay (because we're on the labor movement) he asks how many times I use "Bourgeoisie" and "class enemy".

[Robert]

Just because they have to know how the system works does not mean they have to teach it that way. Also, here in the USA each state has a different education system, so unless those rules were from the Texas board of administration I don't see how they could apply to our teachers.

Fair enough. But it looks like Texas's official expectations are pretty high. I don't know what would be wrong with showing this to your teacher and principal and ask "when are we going to learn all this stuff?" Can't your parents intervene somehow? Of course, if the teacher survives, he may retaliate. Against you.


http://ritter.tea.state.tx.us/rules/tac/chapter113/ch113c.html

[Pogue]

I really am astounded that they actually say that shit and I don't get how they get away with it. If that was ever said in my history class I'd get veyr angry and would argue the teacher down.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Oh Jesus, lols indeed. I now appreciate my high school education much more now than I did then.

[Communist Theory]

(2) History. The student understands the political, economic, and social changes in the United States from 1877 to 1898. The student is expected to:
(A) analyze political issues such as Indian policies, the growth of political machines, and civil service reform;

When they say Indian they aren't talking about Native Americans are they?
Because that is pretty ignorant especially if you are laying out your states education policies.

[Brother No. 1]

when the sau Indians I dont know who their talking about and question and agure with them. The right word is Native Americans but they use what the imperialists who came to North america and say Indian.

[Glorious Union]

When they say Indian they aren't talking about Native Americans are they?
Because that is pretty ignorant especially if you are laying out your states education policies.

Yes, they are talking about Native Americans. Unless America had some kind of major involvment with India as well during that time period and I am missing something?

Remember that Texias is easily considered the furthest right leaning state in the USA. I have even heard that half of the USA's army comes from Texas alone. Not sure if that is true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Communist Theory]

Yeah thats what I figured. I say Indian alot when referring to Native Americans but I would never use it formally like if I was writing my states education procedures. and I also use the term American Indians. I mainly use the term Indian because of my affiliation with A.I.M. which stands for American Indian Movement if you don't already know.

[Glorious Union]

I would like Native Americans to be refered to as just 'Americans' and the current citizens of the USA to be refered to as 'United Statesians' or something to that effect. This would alleviate the confusion and put the native's name back on their land, rather than half a world away in India.

[Communist Theory]

Yes, they are talking about Native Americans. Unless America had some kind of major involvment with India as well during that time period and I am missing something?

Remember that Texias is easily considered the furthest right leaning state in the USA. I have even heard that half of the USA's army comes from Texas alone. Not sure if that is true, but I wouldn't be surprised.
My reservation is the #1 contributer to armed forces per capita in the whole U.S. excluding counties that have a major military instillation. I don't know why I'm mentioning this. :confused:

[Communist Theory]

I would like Native Americans to be refered to as just 'Americans' and the current citizens of the USA to be refered to as 'United Statesians' or something to that effect. This would alleviate the confusion and put the native's name back on their land, rather than half a world away in India.
Yeah, I would prefer that. I wish we could all just be rid of divisions in race and culture. The world would be a much better place.

[mykittyhasaboner]

I can't find the stroy online. It has something to do with some really strong smart guy and a ballerina who rebel or some crap.

Harrison Bergson by Kurt Vonnegut. It is actually about a society that is entirely "equal". Not equal in the economic or political sense, but in the literal sense; people's abnormalities were altered by technology and it made everyone absolutely equal to the point where memories and emotion is pretty much void.

Your teacher is just plain fucking stupid to claim "this is what communism is like".

[LOLseph Stalin]

Yeah, I would prefer that. I wish we could all just be rid of divisions in race and culture. The world would be a much better place.

I fully agree. Different culture should be able to live freely among other cultures. Plus, it would provide many opportunities for people to learn about other cultures. I think one of the main factors in Racism/Prejudice is ignorance.

[Communist Theory]

Yes, I think it is probally the only factor.

[Glorious Union]

Harrison Bergson by Kurt Vonnegut. It is actually about a society that is entirely "equal". Not equal in the economic or political sense, but in the literal sense; people's abnormalities were altered by technology and it made everyone absolutely equal to the point where memories and emotion is pretty much void.

Your teacher is just plain fucking stupid to claim "this is what communism is like".

My teacher said "this is what socialism is like" and then went on about how terribly opressed the Canadians are.


Yeah, I would prefer that. I wish we could all just be rid of divisions in race and culture. The world would be a much better place.

Depends what you mean by that. Hitler tried etting rid of divisions in race and culture by destroying all the other cultures he could find.

And then there are those who beleive that humans should be forced to reproduce with opposite races so that all races are combined into one single super race.

And then there are those like me, who beleive that differences and variety is awesome and that we should not judge others based on that, but rather enjoy the fact that we are not all clones of eachother.

[Communist Theory]

My teacher said "this is what socialism is like" and then went on about how terribly opressed the Canadians are.



Depends what you mean by that. Hitler tried etting rid of divisions in race and culture by destroying all the other cultures he could find.

And then there are those who beleive that humans should be forced to reproduce with opposite races so that all races are combined into one single super race.

Why did your teacher mention Canada?
And I like diversity what I was getting at was that i would like it if there wasn't rascism in the world. I wouldn't mind religion being gone though or maybe if every single person in the world agreed on one religion and we stopped the wars on who's god was the real god.

[LOLseph Stalin]

My teacher said "this is what socialism is like" and then went on about how terribly opressed the Canadians are.

ok, what the fuck? I'm Canadian and we're not Socialist. Yes, we have better social programs than the US, but we're still as Capitalist as ever. We even have a Conservative government in power to top it all off.


And I like diversity what I was getting at was that i would like it if there wasn't rascism in the world. I wouldn't mind religion being gone though or maybe if every single person in the world agreed on one religion and we stopped the wars on who's god was the real god.

Diversity makes the world a better place. ^_^
And I agree about the religion thing. Religion causes many unnecessary conflicts. It should be kept secular.

[Brother No. 1]

"Religion is a beast of opression."-Karl Marx.
Religion brings coflict to see whose right,whose wrong, and whose a "non believer."

[Glorious Union]

Really? Canada isn't socialist?!?! WTF!!:cursing:
It is common knowledge here that Canada is socialist, and some even say that they almost 'fell' to communism along with Cuba as a Soviet tactic to surround the USA with satelite states.

[Brother No. 1]

The US is paranoid and was paranoid in the cold War.

[Glorious Union]

Texas is paranoid and was paranoid in the cold War.

Fix'd :D

I'm pretty sure that Texas is one of the only places you will find where people beleive the Russians tried to take over Canada...I still have a hard time beleiving Canada isn't socialist, I've just always been told that it was.

[ellipsis]

who else had to read 1984, Fahrenheit 451, brave new world and animal farm?

[Glorious Union]

who else had to read 1984, Fahrenheit 451, brave new world and animal farm?

We have to read 1984 in senior year, the other books are not even mentioned or suggested by the teachers.

[Communist Theory]

Fix'd :D

I'm pretty sure that Texas is one of the only places you will find where people beleive the Russians tried to take over Canada...I still have a hard time beleiving Canada isn't socialist, I've just always been told that it was.
Texas clearly had it's effect on you. We just got a new student at our school hes from Texas. He's a gangster type guy.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Really? Canada isn't socialist?!?! WTF!!http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-p1402903/revleft/smilies2/cursing.gif
It is common knowledge here that Canada is socialist, and some even say that they almost 'fell' to communism along with Cuba as a Soviet tactic to surround the USA with satelite states.

Ok, Americans are idiots. We are not Socialist!


who else had to read 1984, Fahrenheit 451, brave new world and animal farm?

I have read 1984 and Animal Farm. Both great books. My teacher tried to use them as Anti-Communist propaganda.

[Brother No. 1]

a Gangster type. Why do people chose such lives.

[MikeSC]

We have to read 1984 in senior year, the other books are not even mentioned or suggested by the teachers.

Point out how the main character talks about "If there's any hope, it lies with the proles." If you read it knowing what socialism is, it is staggeringly pro-socialist. Unsurprising, given that that was Orwell's intention.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Point out how the main character talks about "If there's any hope, it lies with the proles." If you read it knowing what socialism is, it is staggeringly pro-socialist. Unsurprising, given that that was Orwell's intention.

That book does seem Pro-Socialist in some ways, but my teacher tried to pass it off as how a Communist society would be like. Everybody would be watched constantly, they couldn't think for themselves, etc. Oh the ignorance! I'm sure I was one of the only people in my class who fully understood that book.

[an apple]

1984 seemed to paint a picture of Stalinist Communism rather than Communism in one of the many other more free forms.

[LOLseph Stalin]

1984 seemed to paint a picture of Stalinist Communism rather than Communism in one of the many other more free forms.

I think that may have been partly was Orwell was intending to do. Alot of Big Brother's traits match up with Stalin quite well. His image is everywhere, There's mention of Goldstein the "traitor" who seems to represent Trotsky, and various other references. Also, I should point out the Inner Party. They have special privilages and this is pretty much how it was like with the Soviet Communist party.

[Jack]

But Orwell was not a fan of Trotsky either, or Leninism in general, you can see this in Animal Farm.

[mosfeld]

But Orwell was not a fan of Trotsky either, or Leninism in general, you can see this in Animal Farm. We watched animal farm in school the other day and Trotksy was portrayed as the good guy :)

(not talking about the book)

[Jack]

Well it portrays him as the lesser of 2 evils once the pigs become the "vanguard party".

[LOLseph Stalin]

We watched animal farm in school the other day and Trotksy was portrayed as the good guy http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-p1403893/revleft/smilies/001_smile.gif

And you're saying that's a bad thing?

[Brother No. 1]

Hes not Pro-Trosky.

[MikeSC]

1984 is certainly anti-Stalinist- but Mosley's British Union of Fascists had just formed out of elements of Labour contemporary to Orwell, which could explain how some of the ideas about "IngSoc" came about. A fairytale warning against half-assed Fabian reformism and what it can turn into, maybe :)

[LOLseph Stalin]

Animal Farm is also Anti-Stalinist. We can agree on one thing about George Orwell: He did not like Stalin. Anyway, it's funny how we went from talking about Anti-Communist propaganda in school to this...

[MikeSC]

Animal Farm is also Anti-Stalinist. We can agree on one thing about George Orwell: He did not like Stalin. Anyway, it's funny how we went from talking about Anti-Communist propaganda in school to this...

It can't hurt for people here to know more than their teachers about a subject lots of schools tackle. It's a disgrace for schools to take something like Orwell and use it for anti-communist propaganda, rather than seeking to teach a complicated, non-black-and-white truth :mad:

[LOLseph Stalin]

It's a disgrace for schools to take something like Orwell and use it for anti-communist propaganda, rather than seeking to teach a complicated, non-black-and-white truth http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-t105295/revleft/smilies/angry.gif

Like my school. :) "Orwell was a Socialist, but an Anti-Communist". No, he was Anti-Stalinist!

[griffjam]

Actually, my AP Euro teacher called himself a socialist and he called my history teacher from the year before and my Economics teacher fascists. He also called right-wing students KKK members and John Birchers.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Actually, my AP Euro teacher called himself a socialist and he called my history teacher from the year before and my Economics teacher fascists. He also called right-wing students KKK members and John Birchers.

Wow, your teacher sounds awesome.

[TheDifferenceEngine]

I had a religious education class in secondary school, and the teacher was preaching at us about how religious people got persecuted under Communism.

So I say "They had it coming to them"

She shut up.

[Bud Struggle]

I had a religious education class in secondary school, and the teacher was preaching at us about how religious people got persecuted under Communism.

So I say "They had it coming to them"

She shut up.

Yup, you told her with you witty rejoiner all right. :rolleyes:

No one that is persecuted for believing something "have it coming." People are entitled to their beliefs whatever they may be.

[Brother No. 1]

Yey so many Religious people dont care for what the other person says and only to what they say.

[Bud Struggle]

Yey so many Religious people dont care for what the other person says and only to what they say.

They sound like Communists. :D

[Brother No. 1]

Sounds more like Capitalists to me.

[Bud Struggle]

Sounds more like Capitalists to me.

We're all the same. Funny thing about that--"hurray for our side!" Feudalism, Capitalism, Communism, whatever comes after Communism, it's all "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

(And Roger Daultry screams.)

Never been said better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjA_RtsBfAo&feature=related

[Robert]

So I say "They had it coming to them"

She shut up.

She could hardly have done otherwise. If she had argued with you, the ACLU would have been screaming for her job and a handsome money judgment for all your pain and suffering.

[mosfeld]

And you're saying that's a bad thing? Yes.

[Brother No. 1]

why would it be a good thing?

[CHEtheLIBERATOR]

Ignorant teachers and propaganda spreading bourgieous poison the even more ignorant children until they brainwash all of the world and murder all Marxists,anarchists,socialists,communists and every other thought that wants to improve everyday life for the people.The time is drawing near.

[LOLseph Stalin]

why would it be a good thing?

I can sense a tendency war coming on...

[Brother No. 1]

Well comrade you started it.

[Bud Struggle]

Like my school. :) "Orwell was a Socialist, but an Anti-Communist". No, he was Anti-Stalinist!


When Orwell wrote 1984 was there any OTHER Communism than Stalinism in the world?

[Brother No. 1]

he must have confused all of them of "Stalinism" for he thought "Stalinism" was in all the countries the CCCP helped.

[Bud Struggle]

he must have confused all of them of "Stalinism" for he thought "Stalinism" was in all the countries the CCCP helped.

Yup, that's it! :thumbup:

:D:D:D

[LOLseph Stalin]

When Orwell wrote 1984 was there any OTHER Communism than Stalinism in the world?

Yea good point. That was the only kind of Communism in the world then.



he must have confused all of them of "Stalinism" for he thought "Stalinism" was in all the countries the CCCP helped.


Stalinism was in all the countries when Orwell wrote 1984. .

[Brother No. 1]

So China was "Stalinist" in 1984.

[Bud Struggle]

So China was "Stalinist" in 1984.

Bada bing! :laugh:

(OK, the laugh graemlin, that was impolite. But it was pretty funny.)

[Glorious Union]

So China was "Stalinist" in 1984.

China? What China? I think you mean EastAsia comrade.

We have always been at war with EastAsia.

[LOLseph Stalin]

So China was "Stalinist" in 1984.


No, no. 1984 is the name of the book George Orwell wrote. He wrote it in the 1940's.

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I fucking hate the way school's today use 1984 as a cold war weapon. It's a great work of literature yet it's been defiled to only being a complimentary to Ayn Rand's boring drivel these days.

People have to remember the world Orwell was in when he wrote it. World War II has just ended, and that conflict saw more people die than many previous conflicts combined. The world, especially Europe, was a rubbish heap divided between two superpowers who were on the warpath. Ideas like fascism and totalitarianism being extremely popular may look foreign to us now, but it was a very different world and to say that the book is just a piece of anti-Stalin propaganda cheapens it.

There's a lot of interesting aspects and predictions in that book that I believe get's overlooked for the general message.

[Brother No. 1]

Maoism was in china in the 1940s. How can you mix up Anti-Revisionism with Maoism?

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

Hey Polish I want you to go to your library, check out 1984, read it, and report back on your findings.

Those are your orders comrade.

Haha just kidding but you should check it out, definitely.

[Brother No. 1]

I'll check it out when I'm done with Young Stalin and the Lenin Anthology.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Haha just kidding but you should check it out, definitely.

I highly recommend it too.

[Bud Struggle]

I fucking hate the way school's today use 1984 as a cold war weapon. It's a great work of literature yet it's been defiled to only being a complimentary to Ayn Rand's boring drivel these days.

People have to remember the world Orwell was in when he wrote it. World War II has just ended, and that conflict saw more people die than many previous conflicts combined. The world, especially Europe, was a rubbish heap divided between two superpowers who were on the warpath. Ideas like fascism and totalitarianism being extremely popular may look foreign to us now, but it was a very different world and to say that the book is just a piece of anti-Stalin propaganda cheapens it.

There's a lot of interesting aspects and predictions in that book that I believe get's overlooked for the general message.

Well Orwell's point was that he was against both Fascism AND Communism (or at least in the way he saw it--as Stalinism.)

Orwell was a Socialist--actually something of a Social Democrat.

[IcarusAngel]

And what about Huxley? What about Huxley? He was against totalitarianism communism, and he was against capitalism.

He wrote in BNW: Revisted that the problem with capitalism is that the "small man" is too easily driven out of business as the machinery and the technology becomes more and more complicated and harder to use and manipulate. I have to say from studying a bit of history: point well taken, at least in a capitalist society and even in the USSR this is true.

His critiques of consumerism are also spot on. In Brave New World the mantra is "ending is better than mending" (meaning it's better to continually buy crap than to try and save resources), movies and entertainment are completely devoid of anything thought provoking or interesting, with an empahsis on special effects, all ancient cultures, social sciences, etc. are mocked and considered useless ("history is bunk" declares the controller), and liberalism and democracy have been ended, and because of this every nook and cranny of life is open to conglomerate exploitation, including human genes.

With the success of mindless entertainment, video games, web sites, and the numerous drugs out there designed to keep people superficially happy, I'd say Huxley's prediction was a tad more accurate than Orwell's government that comes right out and says "we're going to rule you."

As Huxley sharply pointed out, propaganda in a dictatorship and a democracy are two different things - propaganda in a democracy is much more sophisticated (a point echoed by MIT linguist, Noam Chomsky).

In fact, a lot of what Huxley wrote about is now being duly noted by social scientists, and he does it in simpler terms than they use.

However, I of course appreciate Orwell's writing as well, which I also see as a critique of the propaganda used by governments and their totalitarian methods.

[RGacky3]

Well Orwell's point was that he was against both Fascism AND Communism (or at least in the way he saw it--as Stalinism.)

Orwell was a Socialist--actually something of a Social Democrat.

Ever read Orwells omage to Catonlina? Back then there was no real social democrats. Before Lenin it was essencially Socialists, which included Anarchists and the more conservative ones that believed in the State, but back then there was'ny any real totalitarian Socialists or Leninists as they exist today (which essencially just means they support the Leninist revolution and the form it took, and see that as the model), nor was there Social Democrats as they exist today (which are really just Europes responce to Socialist fear, Americas was suppression, Europes was social-democracy.)

Orwell was a Socialist.

Not a Leninist, not an Anarchist, not a Social Democrat, just an old timer socialist. The Socialst Party of America, IWW, CNT, Early European Democratic Socialist/lLabor Party style Socialist.l

[Jack]

The conservative Socialists were essentially Social Democrats, but dropped the name (though they use Democratic Socialist too) when Socialism became thought of as connected to Stalin.

[RedScare]

I heard some of this, but most of the kids in my school are a pretty solid Democrats, so I hear more of "It's the perfect system, but human nature....." crap.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I heard some of this, but most of the kids in my school are a pretty solid Democrats, so I hear more of "It's the perfect system, but human nature....." crap.

I hear that from some of my more open-minded friends(many of them are Anti-Communist, pro-Free Market fanatics). I just glare at them and reply with something along the lines of "What human nature? You mean Capitalist nature." They either shut up and walk away or start a debate with me.

[Brother No. 1]

Human Nature...wow such lies I could almost laugh at it.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Human Nature...wow such lies I could almost laugh at it.

Of course. It's typical Capitalist attitude towards Communism. They feel it has no incentive. What they don't realize is that the only incentive to work hard in Capitalism is the fact that you could starve and be homeless if you don't.

[Brother No. 1]

Capitalists believe in Human Nature for they think Greed is apart of Human Nature...eh sounds to Religious to me.

[graffic]

Ah, yes. The shit you learn about communism in high school.

Meanwhile, most of my professors in college seem to be radical leftists or Marxists, or at least sympathetic to such beliefs.

It's true in high school I always had a subconscious vision of communism as being an outdated evil philosophy. If someone had asked me to explain it I wouldn't have been able to though.

When you get to college or University, it changes. Most of my work in History and politics points to a Marxist conclusion.

Or at least, first studying US foreign policy, at the end of the course most of the class agreed the majority of US foreign policy was wrong and resulted in lives being traded for American profit.

Then we did black civil rights, where I learned that race does not exist and how fucked up and pointless racism and nationalism are.

All fairly communist ideas. I think it shows power of education. Most reactionary thought is down to a lack of education or reading.

[Jack]

Maoism was in china in the 1940s. How can you mix up Anti-Revisionism with Maoism?

The Chinese revolution wasn't until the 50's, and the China/USSR split even took years after that, during the Kruchev era.

[Jack]

Actually 1949 I think, still the book was written in 1944.

[Brother No. 1]

Hmm True for 40s was when the Sino-Soviet Relations were at its best and when Nika came..it all went down. But do you mean the Revolution took place during the 50s? 1949 october 1st was when the PRC was created and by Marxists say at the end days of the Civil War the Chinese Revolution took place or do you mean something else. 1944 was still the Japanses-sino War so now I see why he saw only "Stalinism" as the form of Communism here. Well maybe after 1944 he saw the other forms that took after World War 2.

[Bud Struggle]

1984 was clearly written with both Stalin and Hitler in mind. I think the book had little to do with the politics of "Communism" or "Fascism. " It was more about the caprecious totalitarian of both those unsavory characters.

[Jack]

Hmm True for 40s was when the Sino-Soviet Relations were at its best and when Nika came..it all went down. But do you mean the Revolution took place during the 50s? 1949 october 1st was when the PRC was created and by Marxists say at the end days of the Civil War the Chinese Revolution took place or do you mean something else. 1944 was still the Japanses-sino War so now I see why he saw only "Stalinism" as the form of Communism here. Well maybe after 1944 he saw the other forms that took after World War 2.

Well Trots were really irrelavent then (like now!), so yeah. Animal Farm was pretty much an attack on Leninism itself, though it did portray Trotsky as the lesser of 2 evils.

[Brother No. 1]

and Stalin as the greater of those 2 evils. Trots irrelavent? Then what does that make us Anti-Revisionist?

[Green Dragon]

Of course. It's typical Capitalist attitude towards Communism. They feel it has no incentive. What they don't realize is that the only incentive to work hard in Capitalism is the fact that you could starve and be homeless if you don't.


Of course, the "nature" of communism that one does NOT have to work hard, yet will have no worries about food or shelter, is naturally, never explained by the communists. Of course, people will by "nature" work "together" in the communist community, but the "nature" of that "togetherness" is by "nature" unknown, since nobody knows exactly what a communist community will look like.
It all sounds very much like religion to me.

[Orange Juche]

We just read Orwell's Animal Farm and then were told "See? That's why communism doesn't work!".

Also the whole thing about how the USSR and Cuba were "communist nations" (I later found out that this was antithetical, and that communism was stateless... on my own.), and that Sweden is "socialist" (even though its a "social democracy").

It seems to me that it should be criminal to blatantly teach lies. It's morally reprehensible at best.

[Brother No. 1]

"Communist nations?"

[Bud Struggle]

We just read Orwell's Animal Farm and then were told "See? That's why communism doesn't work!".

Also the whole thing about how the USSR and Cuba were "communist nations" (I later found out that this was antithetical, and that communism was stateless... on my own.), and that Sweden is "socialist" (even though its a "social democracy").

It seems to me that it should be criminal to blatantly teach lies. It's morally reprehensible at best.

There is something to this problem of "labeling" we do in American society. My daughter's history book clearly calls the Soviets and the Cubans "communists." I've heard The Soviet Union and North Korea called "Communist" on thehNews Hour and on network news shows. And that's the tip of the iceburg. Social Democrats and Socialism, Liberal Classical and otherwise, etc. are all mislabeled in American society. One could call it just sloppy, but there's more to it than that. I don't think there's some sort of "plot" out there either.

There is some sort of American political patois that calls things by our own particular name and fits people and political ideas into slots of our own making expecially in areas where American political parties and ideas have no direct counterpart.

And where's it's expedient. A Socialist may be as good as a Communst--since but for a ragged few--America has neither. But if you call the Soviet Union Socialist and you call Obama a Socialist--you run into a bit of a problem.

America, for better or worse, has it's own vocabulary.

[RGacky3]

There is some sort of American political patois that calls things by our own particular name and fits people and political ideas into slots of our own making expecially in areas where American political parties and ideas have no direct counterpart.

The reason for that is ultimately political. The russian revolution was the best thing for the American ruling class. Before the Russian revolution the best they could come up with as a definition was that Communists were for chaos, sedition, destruction of society and mob rule, pretty much the same as Anarchists, but once the Russian revolution happend, and especially later on. It was possible to label all socialists as something more sinister, destruction of democracy.

The reason people want to lable it that way in political America is because that way you can dismiss whatever someone says by labeling him as a communist and dismiss a whole arange of ideas by associating them with something negative.

The same goes for Socialism, every argument about socialism in Americas starts with the argument of individual rights versus collective responsibility, or it starts with free market or more state regulation. But thats really not the argument, it never was, the argument was whether or not private property (Meaning Capital or Land) and the hiarchy that comes with it is valid, the the right of one over the fruits of his labor.

However in America because the definition is twisted, the argument changes to where it seams like the Socialist is against freedom, which is absurd. So you cannot really discuss Socialism in America, because the argument is never where its supposed to be.

This is propeganda 101, negative associations, it works like a charm. The Soviet Union did it too, but not nearly as good as America does it.

[Alucard-sama]

When somebody on the bus heard me teaching my best friend a little about my -mostly- Communist beliefs:
Person: "Are you a Communist?"
Me: "Urh... yeah."
Person: "But you're Australian, isn't that what like the Chinese have?"
Me: "Nah Chinese are pretty much Capitalist now, definitely not Communist."
Person: "Oh, but you're still Australian how can you be a Communist?"
Me: "It's a belief, I don't have to be from a specific place to hold it."
Person: "Uh?"
End conversation...

[Hoxhaist]

I like wearing white suits maybe thats the first sign of turning red... :lol:

[Bud Struggle]

I like wearing white suits maybe thats the first sign of turning red... :lol:




There are other things it's the sign of, too. :D

Welcome to RevLeft.

[Idealism]

there was literally a point in the text book we were studying from and it titled somthing like "undemocratic ideologies of the 19th century" where it had a picture of the communist flag and a picture of the swastica right next to each other :)

[Bud Struggle]

there was literally a point in the text book we were studying from and it titled somthing like "undemocratic ideologies of the 19th century" where it had a picture of the communist flag and a picture of the swastica right next to each other :)

Well actually if you were discussing the 20th century both the Communist flag (I take it that you mean the flag of the USSR) and the flag of Fascist Germany both represented Totalitarian dictatorships. Neither country was "democratic" so your book would be correct in that respect. On the other hand, I don't doubt that Communism can be democratic in many circumstances but the Soviet Union never was. Fascism on the other hand is by nature undemocratic.

[Glorious Union]

there was literally a point in the text book we were studying from and it titled somthing like "undemocratic ideologies of the 19th century" where it had a picture of the communist flag and a picture of the swastica right next to each other :)

We were taught that Communism was the evil love-child of Nazi Germany and Czarist Russia.

[Dimentio]

There is something to this problem of "labeling" we do in American society. My daughter's history book clearly calls the Soviets and the Cubans "communists." I've heard The Soviet Union and North Korea called "Communist" on thehNews Hour and on network news shows. And that's the tip of the iceburg. Social Democrats and Socialism, Liberal Classical and otherwise, etc. are all mislabeled in American society. One could call it just sloppy, but there's more to it than that. I don't think there's some sort of "plot" out there either.

There is some sort of American political patois that calls things by our own particular name and fits people and political ideas into slots of our own making expecially in areas where American political parties and ideas have no direct counterpart.

And where's it's expedient. A Socialist may be as good as a Communst--since but for a ragged few--America has neither. But if you call the Soviet Union Socialist and you call Obama a Socialist--you run into a bit of a problem.

America, for better or worse, has it's own vocabulary.

That is the same for Russia.

In Russia, if you are into "gay rights", you are considered right-wing.

[swirling_vortex]

It's true in high school I always had a subconscious vision of communism as being an outdated evil philosophy. If someone had asked me to explain it I wouldn't have been able to though.

When you get to college or University, it changes. Most of my work in History and politics points to a Marxist conclusion.

Or at least, first studying US foreign policy, at the end of the course most of the class agreed the majority of US foreign policy was wrong and resulted in lives being traded for American profit.

Then we did black civil rights, where I learned that race does not exist and how fucked up and pointless racism and nationalism are.

All fairly communist ideas. I think it shows power of education. Most reactionary thought is down to a lack of education or reading.
That's true until you take economics. That field seems to be predominately right-wing wherever you go. The most liberal I've seen an economics class go is Keynesian (state capitalism), but you usually don't see very many Marxist economists in college.

[LOLseph Stalin]

That's true until you take economics. That field seems to be predominately right-wing wherever you go. The most liberal I've seen an economics class go is Keynesian (state capitalism), but you usually don't see very many Marxist economists in college.

That's exactly why i'm not taking economics. I'm not spending my day hearing about Free Market shit. We all know it fails.

[Brother No. 1]

Economics in the Capitalist society makes as much sense as Religion and Religion makes no sense.

[swirling_vortex]

That's exactly why i'm not taking economics. I'm not spending my day hearing about Free Market shit. We all know it fails.
For my major, I had no choice but to take one. But hey, all the reason to understand the opponent better. :)

[Brother No. 1]

Learn the enemy and correct the errors of his own system in his face...not a bad idea.

[LOLseph Stalin]

For my major, I had no choice but to take one. But hey, all the reason to understand the opponent better. http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-p1411311/revleft/smilies/001_smile.gif

I had a choice to take economics, but of course I chose not to.

[Bud Struggle]

I had a choice to take economics, but of course I chose not to.

Excellent. No reason a Communist needs to EVER understand economics.:thumbup1:

[Brother No. 1]

(quote)Excellent. No reason a Communist needs to EVER understand economics(quote)


To understand the economics of a Capitalist country..its not worth the years and hard work you put into it. Take example if I had a chose to take economics here in America..when the guy would turn his back I would just run out of there leaveing a note saying. "No!!!"

[LOLseph Stalin]

Excellent. No reason a Communist needs to EVER understand economics.http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-p1411354/revleft/smilies2/thumbup1.gif

Meh. If I want to understand Capitalist economics it's all around me so it won't be difficult to learn. Besides, I would rather spend my time and energy focusing on Marxist economics.

[swirling_vortex]

Excellent. No reason a Communist needs to EVER understand economics.:thumbup1:
Well, it's an interesting field once you take away of the free market and pro-capitalist teachings behind it. After all, economics is a social science and that doesn't mean that everything has to be expressed in some form of a currency or number. The problem is a lot of these people (both free market and Keynesians) are paid to express things in hopelessly complicated equations and graphs that would certainly turn anyone away who isn't a math major. That's why I like Marxist theory and other socialist economic ideas in that you don't need to be an expert on statistics to understand it. It's simply common sense and it can be easily applied to your daily life. Capitalist theories are usually abstract and concentrate more on the business end.

[Robert]

The problem is a lot of these people (both free market and Keynesians) are paid to express things in hopelessly complicated equations and graphs that would certainly turn anyone away who isn't a math major.

Rocket science involves "hopelessly complicated" equations, too. But it works.

[Jack]

Rocket science involves "hopelessly complicated" equations, too. But it works.

Didn't work for the Challenger :laugh:

[Robert]

Rockets blow up when things go wrong, of course. But that's a failure of manufacture, execution and mechanics, not science. The Challenger had a defective o-ring (gasket). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Challenger_disaster

The scientists even anticipated (if not quite predicted) the failure of o-rings on booster rockets in cold temperatures.

As you commies say, if at first you don't succeed ....

[Jack]

It was a joke, hence the :laugh:

[Robert]

I can't take a joke, Jack. I can't even Jack a joke, Jack.

[LOLseph Stalin]

The problem is a lot of these people (both free market and Keynesians) are paid to express things in hopelessly complicated equations and graphs that would certainly turn anyone away who isn't a math major.

Haha! There's fail right there for me. I even have problems doing basic adding and subtracting sometimes. :confused:

[Incendiarism]

School's stupid.

[Brother No. 1]

Capitalist school. yes but eh we have to take it.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Thankfully i'm almost finished high school...erm...I mean Bourgeois propaganda central.

[Brother No. 1]

Yes your thankful I'm still in Damn capitalist jr high.

[LOLseph Stalin]

My history teacher tried to say Communism is undemocratic because only Communists can run in elections. wtf? :confused:

[Brother No. 1]

Your histroy teacher has been brained washed by the Capitalist propaganda but then mostly all teachers are. My teachers dont even mention Communism now for i beat them all in political arguments.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Your histroy teacher has been brained washed by the Capitalist propaganda but then mostly all teachers are. My teachers dont even mention Communism now for i beat them all in political arguments.

My poor teacher. :( If only he knew what Communism really was... I'm pretty sure my Civics teacher knows i'm Communist or at least very hardcore Socialist. He seems pretty cool with it though.

[Brother No. 1]

He seems pretty cool with it though.


wow arent you lucky. My teachers hated that I was communist nwo they accept me for I beat them in political arguments conserning the Soviet Union,China,Lenin,Stalin,Mao,Castro and others.

[LOLseph Stalin]

wow arent you lucky. My teachers hated that I was communist nwo they accept me for I beat them in political arguments conserning the Soviet Union,China,Lenin,Stalin,Mao,Castro and others.

At least my Civics teacher aknowledges the fact that Communism is Democratic. I sometimes occasionally correct him on things. :p

[Brother No. 1]

I sometimes occasionally correct him on things.

Like how you "correct" me on Stalin.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Like how you "correct" me on Stalin.

About the Stalin/Trotsky thing, I have never really asked his views on that before. I do know he's not completely brainwashed and actually sees Communism as a good thing, but sees the people who corrupt it as a problem. Who these exact people are in his opinion i'm not really sure.

[Brother No. 1]

About the Stalin/Trotsky thing, I have never really asked his views on that before. I do know he's not completely brainwashed and actually sees Communism as a good thing, but sees the people who corrupt it as a problem. Who these exact people are in his opinion i'm not really sure.


Well at least hes not completely brainwashed. One upside: he doesnt see Communsim as evil. Bad side,for me,: He most likely sees Mao and Stalin as the corruptors.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Well at least hes not completely brainwashed. One upside: he doesnt see Communsim as evil. Bad side,for me,: He most likely sees Mao and Stalin as the corruptors.

I guess I just got lucky with this teacher. He even said that in class that Marx's ideas are great, but easily corrupted. I should try discussing Communism with him one day.

[Brother No. 1]

I should try discussing Communism with him one day.

Yes you should and open his eyes. then thats one less pawn for the Capitalists and one more ally for us. Besides your good at opening people's eyes.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Yes you should and open his eyes. then thats one less pawn for the Capitalists and one more ally for us. Besides your good at opening people's eyes.

I am? Hmm...I hope so because I need to do some massive recruiting in University.

[JFMLenin]

My history teacher for the last two years (World and Europe II, and US History) is a leftist and former union organizer in Las Vegas. She is actually part of what got me turned onto Communism in the first place. So, I guess I'm pretty lucky.

[Brother No. 1]

I am?

Well didnt you open my eye to Troskyism and Trosky?



I need to do some massive recruiting in University.

Heh I'll support you comrade all the way.:D Spread the Communist ideals and spread Troskyism.

[LOLseph Stalin]

My history teacher for the last two years (World and Europe II, and US History) is a leftist and former union organizer in Las Vegas. She is actually part of what got me turned onto Communism in the first place. So, I guess I'm pretty lucky.


I got into Communism because of my Anti-Communist history teacher. Seems like his plan backfired, eh? ;)

[TheCultofAbeLincoln]

I had some teachers who gave me shit about wearing a Che shirt, but most respected me once they realized I wasn't just wearing it to be cool. Though I am still one cool motherfucker.

And I have a shirt that reads DEMOCRACY FAILED US AGAIN and my principal got all uppity and I was able to use a Bill Hicks line on him:

-I fought in Korea for democracy.

-Oh that's funny, this shirt was made in Korea.

[swirling_vortex]

Haha! There's fail right there for me. I even have problems doing basic adding and subtracting sometimes. :confused:
hehe, wait until you have to take calculus. :)

But to illustrate what I mean, here's the equation for calculating GDP:

Y = C + I + G + (X-M)

Why some people use the letter y for gdp, I'll never understand. But it breaks down like this:

C - consumption
I - investment
G - government spending
X - exports
I - imports

Sounds all dandy right? Except that each of those terms is so broad, you have to make assumptions somewhere in order to get numbers. For instance, what is investment? If I put money into a CD, does that count as investment? Or do I only factor in large sums of money that businesses use? Every one of those terms can be played around with to make the GDP growth look good (and every new administration does it) so it's impossible to tell if that number is accurate.

Let's take another look at a chart comparing wages to workers:

http://www.econmodel.net/185/archives/P4250088a.jpg

In the center where the two meet, the market is said to be in equilibrium. At a certain wage P, there are a certain number of workers N. However, if you raise the wage, then the market is no longer in equilibrium. The first dot is the first set of workers who are still working, the second dot represents the number of workers wanting to work at that wage and the gap in between represents the amount of people laid off because of the cost increase. This is how economists justify not increasing or abolishing the minimum wage.

But is it true? First, the chart assumes that businesses have a fixed amount of income and by raising the wage, they have to lay off workers to avoid going into debt (which is never the case, businesses usually have a ton of money available). Then, you have to look at the unemployment chart:

http://www.miseryindex.us/urbymonth.asp

Every time the minimum wage was raised, it either had no impact or it raised unemployment levels by about 0.3% and went back down over a few months. That's why this model doesn't work either.

[LOLseph Stalin]

hehe, wait until you have to take calculus. http://www.revleft.com/vb/things-have-learned-t105295/revleft/smilies/001_smile.gif

Hehe, Calculus was optional. :p I've finished all my high school math last year.

[Jack]

I have to take math my senior year because I was a dumbass and flunked a semester my Freshman year.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I have to take math my senior year because I was a dumbass and flunked a semester my Freshman year.

I'm so terrible at math I had to take "special" math if you know what I mean... ;)

[Communist Theory]

I'm in alternative classes even though I've got a genius IQ.
I'm exceptionally terrible at math though.

[Jack]

I'm so terrible at math I had to take "special" math if you know what I mean... ;)

I took Algebra 1 part 2 my Sophmore year instead of Geometry. What made me feel a little bit better was that there were even seniors in there.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I'm in alternative classes even though I've got a genius IQ.
I'm exceptionally terrible at math though.

Seems like all the smart Commies end up being terrible at math. I'm pretty much a straight "A" student in everything except for math.

[ellipsis]

I was in precalc my senior year in high school, took a semester of calc in college from a crazy coot who was a genius and very entertaining but failed to teach us anything. I know that this is a really dorky thing to say, but I think math is kinda cool. Looks like im in the minority here on that subject.

but back on topic, in high school i learned that my school's color was cardinal red until the red scare when it was changed to maroon. in 7th grade I was taught that marxism/communism was a system in which everybody is supposed to be equal and that Marx believed that all history was a result of class struggle. that social studies teacher was actually extremely progressive and I had her again in high school as my debate teacher/coach. other than that though I was told that I was an idealist and when I grew up I would become a realist. the russian history class was filled with pro western propaganda. I am glad that is all behind me know.:hammersickle:

[RHIZOMES]

As the school year comes to a close I thought I would go over and review the things I have learned about communism in history class.

1. Communism is a religion.
2. Communists enjoy wearing white suits.
3. Communists are all racists.
4. Hitler was a communist.
5. Stalin helped Hitler with the holocaust.
6. Communists want more cameras in the world.
7. Communism is a death cult.
8. Communists enjoy killing people in their leisure time.
9. Communists have odd sexual interests.
10. Communists want to make porn illegal.
11. Communists want to make porn available to everyone everwhere.
12. Communists like the colour red because it symbolizes death.
13. Communists enjoy military parades.
14. Communism is a genetic deformity.
15. Communists hate mopeds.
16. Communists prefer dirt roads over paved roads.
17. Communists enjoy eating rice, cabbage, and stale bread.
18. Communists hate the upper class.
19. Communists hate the middle class.
20. Communists love the working class.
21. Communists spend most of their lives building tanks and AK47s.
22. Communists are always Russian, Chinese, or Cuban.
23. Communism makes money simply stop existing which makes everybody poor.
24. Communism is a disease you can catch from communists.
25. Communists hate freedom, and enjoy being opressed and enslaved.


Just though that would generate a few lols.
BTW this is stuff the history teacher has actually told the student, all jokes aside.
:lol: my right-wing Zionist history teacher had a more balanced view of communism than that. Where did you get taught, Alabama or something?

[CHEtheLIBERATOR]

Yes we all get to see how generations of adults are scared of the word communism

[procommunistforlife]

Yup, heard a lot of these before. Shows a large amount of ignorance from people we're meant to learn from

[Hoxhaist]

You can take economics and learn the arguments of the capitalists and point out contradictions and hopefully turn some classmates against the "free market."

[Sarah Palin]

My history teacher coaxed a majority of students in my class into refuting Marxism. It wasn't even during a class particularly relating to any economics or Russian/Cuban/Chinese/Venezuelan history. It was just sort of,
"I don't really think that property being held in common is a good idea. But what do you think? I'm just saying, look at Russia. Stalin used communism and in turn, it killed 20 million people." (I kid you not, she said that shit to a class of kids)
And then the brainless students chime in, "Yes, because this is the only time I've been asked about my opinion regarding communism/capitalism, I'm going to agree with yours, the most recent one I've heard."

[Hoxhaist]

I became a communist out of reaction against the cold heartless nature of capitalism and did my own reading on Lenin, Stalin, and especially Hoxha

[Jack]

You can take economics and learn the arguments of the capitalists and point out contradictions and hopefully turn some classmates against the "free market."

A former friend of mine (I'll explain) is taking the economics class, he's an Objectivist and a total prick. That's why I'm not signing up.

Basically I stopped being friends with him because he just yells at people who don't like Capitalism. He shaved his head and never smiles since he joined the Rand cult. Now he's trying to be the model Objectivist.

[Brother No. 1]

Basically I stopped being friends with him because he just yells at people who don't like Capitalism.

Peoples should yell at him for liking Capitalism.




He shaved his head and never smiles since he joined the Rand cult. Now he's trying to be the model Objectivist.


Seems he doesnt have a life nor a mind.

[Hoxhaist]

A former friend of mine (I'll explain) is taking the economics class, he's an Objectivist and a total prick. That's why I'm not signing up.

Basically I stopped being friends with him because he just yells at people who don't like Capitalism. He shaved his head and never smiles since he joined the Rand cult. Now he's trying to be the model Objectivist.
Objectivism is one of the scarest ideologies I have ever heard of! it is just about pure evil. I am more afraid of Objectivists than fascists. Objectivism is gaining with all this tea-bagging nonsense pushed by Fox News and Sean Hannity.

[LOLseph Stalin]

I became a communist out of reaction against the cold heartless nature of capitalism and did my own reading on Lenin, Stalin, and especially Hoxha


Sounds similar to me. I became a Communist after researching it when one of my teachers tried to say it's evil.

[Poison]

Same thing I've heard from high school teachers, college teachers, mainstream media, and everyone in America who likes to parrot what they've heard on TV.

[STJ]

As the school year comes to a close I thought I would go over and review the things I have learned about communism in history class.

1. Communism is a religion.
2. Communists enjoy wearing white suits.
3. Communists are all racists.
4. Hitler was a communist.
5. Stalin helped Hitler with the holocaust.
6. Communists want more cameras in the world.
7. Communism is a death cult.
8. Communists enjoy killing people in their leisure time.
9. Communists have odd sexual interests.
10. Communists want to make porn illegal.
11. Communists want to make porn available to everyone everwhere.
12. Communists like the colour red because it symbolizes death.
13. Communists enjoy military parades.
14. Communism is a genetic deformity.
15. Communists hate mopeds.
16. Communists prefer dirt roads over paved roads.
17. Communists enjoy eating rice, cabbage, and stale bread.
18. Communists hate the upper class.
19. Communists hate the middle class.
20. Communists love the working class.
21. Communists spend most of their lives building tanks and AK47s.
22. Communists are always Russian, Chinese, or Cuban.
23. Communism makes money simply stop existing which makes everybody poor.
24. Communism is a disease you can catch from communists.
25. Communists hate freedom, and enjoy being opressed and enslaved.


Just though that would generate a few lols.
BTW this is stuff the history teacher has actually told the student, all jokes aside.

What a load of poo. At least you here the words Communist in America you never here anything about it.

[Comrade Anarchist]

I've heard the same things and ive been called a facist too because most people dont knw how to read or care about learning about the truth

[LOLseph Stalin]

I've heard the same things and ive been called a facist too because most people dont knw how to read or care about learning about the truth


I love how people like to compare "Communism" to Fascism. Gets me everytime. They typically go on about the same old USSR, China, DPRK, and all those other places being nationalistic and militaristic. I wish they would stop and think even for a few seconds that these are the very states that fought against Fascist Imperialism *cough* Hitler *cough*. Plus, in Socialism people wouldn't be getting killed for refusing to support the "almighty" state or for being a member of an ethnic minority group.

[RGacky3]

Plus, in Socialism people wouldn't be getting killed for refusing to support the "almighty" state

Well, thats what Lenin kinda did.

[synthesis]

Well, thats what Lenin kinda did.

I think that's more than a little understandable - by which I do not mean justifiable - considering that he and every other founder of a state socialist government in history founded both their movement and their fledgling regimes with the genuine anxiety that vast powers existed which sought to kill them by any means necessary.

[Sarah Palin]

My teacher gave me this history book that actually said something along the lines of:
Stalin is directly responsible for the death of 40 million people all over the world. He assisted Adolf Hitler in the Holocaust and had his own death camps in Siberia.
I can't tell you how irked I was by that book. I tried to bring it up in class, but had no students to help me because they are all the children of CEOs and entrepreneurs, and the teacher proceeded to scold me for having that view. Utter bullshit. Cos capitalism is so perfect right? When millions of people die from starvation and the teacher can still drive her Mercedes, capitalism is the "correct" view. But when everyone is equal and the people who have been held down the longest are in power- that's horrible. It's just awful that millions of kids all over the world are taught things like that, and have no inclination to find out the truths. And it's really only getting worse, with the far right publishing books like "100 dangerous professors." Hopefully the far left will be able to counter soon.

[Misanthrope]

I find this hard to believe.