Drop everything until you can answer these questions.

[spritely]

Until we figure out the answers to these questions everything else is worthless.

(1) What kind of organize do we need?
(2) How do we create this organization?
(3) How do we use it to bring about revolution?

The advance workers need to dedicate 100% of our energies to figuring this out at this precise moment in time.

You can't get from one place to another without a map.

A high school basketball team has a game plan and they're just playing a game. How are we going to liberate humanity without one (or with one that sucks)?

Even your mom has a recipe to bake cinnamon raisin bread.

[redSHARP]

true that

however, i would put studying of history on that list.
cant make the future with out understanding how you got to the present.

[Enragé]

1)

we need a network of (revolutionary) activists. We all share the same goal, communism/anarchism (which is the same thing), and the same strategy (revolution of the oppressed and exploited against their opressor/exploiter).

The only discipline we should ever accept is self-discipline, we don't need a party discipline, no centralistic democratism - we need people of various currents struggling together, no more sectarianism (but long live the critique!).

2)

We are a militant minority, that's obvious to everybody. And most of us on this board are organised in small parties/groups (some less small than others), so the question how do we create this organization: we already have networks - we need to combine them, work together on whatever we can agree on.

3)

AGITATE!
--

Sorry, no blueprints - we struggle, see what works (as in uniting people against capitalism), do more of that!

edit: and ofcourse, remember the past and learn (we're not starting from scratch)

[Klaus]

Until we figure out the answers to these questions everything else is worthless.


(1) What kind of organize do we need?It depends on where you are. Circumstances in Greece are not the same as they are in the US. Observe what's going on, and seek outlets to creatively spread the message.

I stress creativity, especially in the US. Street protests for example are nearly worthless, the only exception I can think of being the 1999 protests against the WTO, and that largely due to the direct action of the Black Bloc.

Take courses in communications and marketing if you're at university. Explore new methods of reaching people. The proletariat is reflexively revolutionary (in that we know we're being screwed and who's doing the screwing), but what we require as a class is consciousness. Consciousness is difficult to raise in the environment of the West, with the perpetual barrage of bourgeois psychological ordnance on television, the Net, and in print.

But I digress.

In terms of what sort of organization, I would venture to say "whatever works." In a sense, this is an advantage we have right now with the financial meltdown. The window is open at the moment - socialism is getting more attention, at least in the US (ironically due to the bourgeois Republicans accusing the bourgeois Democrats of being socialists!), and local groups in this environment have the best "test tube" since the social movements of the 1960s-70s with which to experiment with methods of organization and outreach.

Structurally, I think the party structure is the best we have but as a movement we're plagued with dogmatic rigidity and sectarianism. That has to stop, and there are enough threads on that here without my piling on.

Instead of trying to herd cats (democratic centralism), we should adopt a more organic means of organization. Once you have a group of like-minded people, let everyone contribute as best they can in a manner suited to their talents and creativity. I've always found CrimethInc's essay Your Politics Are Boring As Fuck to be inspirational.



(2) How do we create this organization?Flyers at coffeehouses and ads in the local alternative newsweekly to get people in your area.

On a grander scale, we need to start a campaign to get the leftist organizations to join forces (easier said than done). This starts locally, but must also take into account the larger organizations. Realistic goals must be set (in terms of recruitment, sources of funding, and campaigns for action), with deadlines and accountability for leaders/coordinators who fail in the execution of those goals.

The thing is, organizationally, it must be bottom-up. I am convinced that the historical top-down organizational structure has been a significant factor in leftist splintering. Not everyone in "Klaus' Kommunist Klique" is going o agree on everything. The large organizations need to focus on the big picture and make decisions only in regard to such. Local groups must be the first and last word in their area. A "Politburo" in New York should have no jurisdiction on the activities of a group in Los Angeles, let alone Amsterdam.


(3) How do we use it to bring about revolution? Once the groundwork is laid, I think the answer to that will be clearer. I think local->national->international should be the ascending realms of focus for any group. If, once groundwork is laid, Germany is ripe for revolution then go for it, don't wait for the UK, Netherlands, the US to be ready. Different peoples have different circumstances, different levels of consciousness regarding the revolutionary proletarian role. It takes time.


The advance workers need to dedicate 100% of our energies to figuring this out at this precise moment in time.

You can't get from one place to another without a map.True, but we're in no position to determine how to bring the revolution about. Your basketball analogy is good, but I think a better one would be a mission to Mars. We can see it, but to get there will take substantial development, trial-and-error of technologies, etc. Instead of looking at the end goal, we should focus on what we can do now.

[Bilan]

Moved to learning.

[spritely]

Hey friend, why the fuck did you move this to learning?

Your pal, me.

[Charles Xavier]

Spritely, I know you think you are the shit but these are very beginner level questions and slow a lack of understanding of revolutionary struggle.

1. What organization do we need? Well we will need a variety of organizations at various points in the struggle. Trade Unions, Trade Union confederations, political parties, mass democratic organizations, coalitions and so on.

2. How do we create these organizations? What makes you think these organizations don't exist?

3. How can we use it to bring about revolution? Well its a revolution, not a coup d'etat. Its not a conspiratorial overthrow. Its an open struggle of the proletariat. There is unfortunately no cut and dried scheme that will work, we must strengthen the working class organizationally, ideologically and politically. What will be the method of transformation of society? That depends where the working class is sufficiently organized. What will make the working class walk is their knowledge and tradition of struggle. What will make them walk a mile? Well the lack of any perceived alternative.

Does the working class have plans? Yes, there are plans, some are short term or long term. But there are problems with the leadership, the trade union movement in the United States and Canada has a tradition of sitting on its hands.

[Sam_b]

figuring this out

This would imply a question surely? A question about organisations at that. Hence learning, i'd imagine.

[Os Cangaceiros]

You can't get from one place to another without a map.

A high school basketball team has a game plan and they're just playing a game. How are we going to liberate humanity without one (or with one that sucks)?

Even your mom has a recipe to bake cinnamon raisin bread.

Well, I personally use the analogy that we're trying to weaken the foundations of a very old house (capitalism). We're trying to bring it down as quickly as possible, but it's also rotting away as we speak.

[spritely]

Spritely, I know you think you are the shit but these are very beginner level questions and slow a lack of understanding of revolutionary struggle.

Yes. If I only I had joined the uber militant CPC in the 60's I'd know all I need to know like you. But we still would be living in capitalism. So maybe you don't have the answers.

If all you can do is repeat what you think is what Lenin proposed for the Russian Empire in 1905 you're fucked. What we have doesn't work. We need something new.

It would be like if the inventor of the computer made a prototype that didn't work. So instead of fixing it and changing it until it worked he just kept making the same prototype over and over expecting each "next one" to work.

[spritely]

This would imply a question surely? A question about organisations at that. Hence learning, i'd imagine.

In the scope of this forum learning would be "What is communism?" "Who was Bela Kun?" "Why did Tony Cliffe sell out?"

"Comrades what are we doing wrong and what should we be doing?" is a political and theoretical question.

:tt1:

[spritely]

Well, I personally use the analogy that we're trying to weaken the foundations of a very old house (capitalism). We're trying to bring it down as quickly as possible, but it's also rotting away as we speak.

I'm not looking for the best analogy. We need to figure out what we need to do to end capitalism.

Anyway you're analogy suggests that if we just wait long enough the house will rot away. But that's not true. Capitalism spins into crises but without the working class destroying it it will find ways to prop itself up and keep on truckin.

[Pogue]

Well, I personally use the analogy that we're trying to weaken the foundations of a very old house (capitalism). We're trying to bring it down as quickly as possible, but it's also rotting away as we speak.

I'm not looking for the best analogy. We need to figure out what we need to do to end capitalism.

Anyway you're analogy suggests that if we just wait long enough the house will rot away. But that's not true. Capitalism spins into crises but without the working class destroying it it will find ways to prop itself up and keep on truckin.

What, and we're gonna figure out what we need to do to end capitalism udner your leadership over an itnernet forum?

SHIT guys, its that easy! We were so thick for not thinking of it sooner!

[Os Cangaceiros]

Anyway you're analogy suggests that if we just wait long enough the house will rot away. But that's not true. Capitalism spins into crises but without the working class destroying it it will find ways to prop itself up and keep on truckin.

The issue is all about scarcity; all of these debates hinge on the best way to divide the resources on this planet. Scarcity exists because resources are finite. Only one thing is for certain: free-market capitalism as it exists today is unsustainable, specifically because of this fact. The system we have today has not been present throughout history, and it won't extend into perpetuity, of that we can be sure. The only question is what comes next.

[spritely]

What, and we're gonna figure out what we need to do to end capitalism udner your leadership over an itnernet forum?

SHIT guys, its that easy! We were so thick for not thinking of it sooner!

what the fuck are you on about my love? when did i suggest my leadership? if i was proposing that i'd pretend i have all the answers like the other delusional people here that think they're doing something more than wasting time and making themselves feel good.

are we gonna get all the answers here? no. are we gonna get all the answers everywhere no? that doesnt mean we shouldnt be focused on getting them. that should be our focus. figuring out what needs to be done. that is the burning question. yet even suggesting we engage it gets me the scorn of uber militants everywhere.

this place among the others like it online can be a part of teh dicussion debate and figuring this all out. its a beginning to addressing this. but if you dont think we can even engage any of this here then the question must be why are you here? is this your version of entertainment? try movies or sex. they're better.

[Matina]

spritely: We need something new.

No we don't. New does not necessarily mean better. The wheel is very old, but no one said "let's invent the new wheel".
The ideas are there and they were tested by the Russian Revolution. If we want the working class to take power, we need to use the Bolshevik methods, ideas, programme and tactics.

[spritely]

But the wheel works. Our organizations don't. You don't need to reinvent the wheel because it does what it's supposed to. Our organizations don't. That's why we live in capitalism.

The workers took power in Czarist Russia in 1917 for a few years. We've been trying to emulate that ever since and it hasn't worked. We haven't taken power even for a few years. We haven't even come close. What makes you think it's going to work now?

[Charles Xavier]

But the wheel works. Our organizations don't. You don't need to reinvent the wheel because it does what it's supposed to. Our organizations don't. That's why we live in capitalism.

The workers took power in Czarist Russia in 1917 for a few years. We've been trying to emulate that ever since and it hasn't worked. We haven't taken power even for a few years. We haven't even come close. What makes you think it's going to work now?

First of all no one realistically is asking to cut and dry the Russia revolution and put it on their nation/country.

What we get from Lenin and the Bolsheviks are lessons for future struggles, we also learn from the Bulgarians in their mistake which lead to the triumph of Fascism and to their success which lead to worker's rule with the Fatherland Front. Can we copy and apply their situations to ours? No of course not, capitalism unequally developed the whole world. Different levels of production, different types of productions, different status of rule, different composition of the working class, different strengths and weaknesses. What we learned is tools to find out our strengths and weaknesses and tools to analysis a situation. A way to formulate and make conclusions than move forward with a plan of work.

Second, the lessons laid out by Marx and Lenin resulted in Revolutions across Africa, Asia, Europe north and South America.

Why not in North America? Well North American and Western Europe are the masters of the world, they are the ones who dominate every other country in the world. They exploit and oppress whole nations and peoples. And what has developed is a complacency within our class, a labour aristocracy of sorts. This however is not substanible of course, Capitalism is a system of crisises. The working class is forced into struggle not out of choice, not because they are bored and what to rage against capitalism, but out of nessicity. The revolutionary left represents every worker who hates the way things are but doesn't know what to do. We exist because we need to exist. In North America our organizations are weak because for the most part our class and trade union movement has become complacent. The trade union movement has not done much since the 1960s. And it is mostly because the ones getting the ball rolling where communists who were purged from their ranks.

We communists were kicked out because we represented a threat to the bourgeiosie, the Social Democrats had no problem filling our seats out of their own narrow sectarian interests.

What is the way forward? Well it depends where you are, each community has its unique struggles. There is also a national and international struggle that must be waged. The Trade Union Movement must be its centre but that too requires much effort by communists to move the trade union movement. What organization? Well I'd argue the communist party. In the United States, the communist Party in my opinion has bad leadership.

In Canada the CLC has moved a mile, through they need to move a lot furthur fast, they are engaging in their first honest campaign, even though its very limited in scope and it is a cough out, since the days of action. Their campaign is limited to improving EI. But it of course is a bandage solution.

The question workers are asking is where are our jobs and how do we get them back? Well the answer is to nationalize the plants and put forward a national plan of production. The method? Well thats the hard part. In some places I think to force the issue plant occupations shouldn't be out of the question. If the capitalist class doesn't want to run the plants its up to the Canadian government to step in and Nationalize it. And of course they will not do it, they are representatives of the corporations, they are there to enforce the rules of the corporations, it is our job as workers to force the issue.

And we as communists are not talking about nationalization as in the government takes ownership, invests billions of tax payers money into the corporation and then a couple years down the line sells it off again. We are talking about democratic control over the industries.

Its our job as communists to advocate a fightback, if you don't fight you automatically lose. But not a fightback on paper or in speeches but concrete to what is possible in the community.

The fascists and right wingers are not idle, they too are waging a campaign, their campaign varies from place to place, but its around several issues.

1. Its not capitalism, its a few greedy individuals that caused this problem.

2. Fuck those unions, I get paid 10$ an hour, they should give concessions, they don't deserve a decent wage! I hope they lose all their jobs as a wake up call!

3. Immigrants are taking our jobs!

These are the major campaigns we cannot fall into their trap especially its easy for workers to fall into the first one since its obviously the most promoted right now in the media.

The second issue is I think the most serious as I believe theres a serious campaign going on around this. Its obviously one of the most divisive issue of the working class.

The third issue is obviously a way to deflect the workers from the bosses to their fellow workers. It doesn't seem to be a serious campaign in Canada, but it sure is in Britain and no doubt the US.


In Ontario as well, the government is rapidly privatizing hospitals and medicare. At the same time trade unions are faced with financial problems, the major campaign in Ontario is losing its trade union funding.

We are going to have to get politically mature quickly because our class cannot rely on us as the only alternative to be lazy.

[Decolonize The Left]

Until we figure out the answers to these questions everything else is worthless.

(1) What kind of organize do we need?
(2) How do we create this organization?
(3) How do we use it to bring about revolution?

The advance workers need to dedicate 100% of our energies to figuring this out at this precise moment in time.

You can't get from one place to another without a map.

A high school basketball team has a game plan and they're just playing a game. How are we going to liberate humanity without one (or with one that sucks)?

Even your mom has a recipe to bake cinnamon raisin bread.

You want a map, but you don't know where you're going. You want a recipe, but you don't really know what you're making. You see that you have reached beyond your capacity.

As a revolutionary, there is one primary goal:

Raise class consciousness.

Do this, and the revolution will surely follow. Do this, and we all, as workers, can devise and discuss theory and tactics.

It can be done at any time, any place, and involving any number of people. It can be done over any medium of communication - it can be done over any distance. It requires little theory, little 'classic reading,' and it isn't patronizing.

It is simply the awareness of class as the fundamental, material, divide between individuals.

- August