Non-Nazi Fascist Groups

[AngelCity Neo-Stalinist]

does anyone have any links to websites of this sort? There's a bit more hope for them it seems....

[griffjam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fascist_movements_by_country


There's a bit more hope for them it seems....

Tell that to Victor Jara

[Dóchas]

why do you want to look at fascist groups? :confused:



There's a bit more hope for them it seems....


im not sure what this means

[pastradamus]

Please clarify your views.

[rednordman]

I think you will find that the most dangerous fascist groups will label themselves as 'non-nazi'.

[Rjevan]

I think you will find that the most dangerous fascist groups will label themselves as 'non-nazi'.
That's true. The more intelligent nazis understood that they won't win great sympathy through walking around with swastika flags, denying holocaust, praising Hitler and the 3rd Reich and proclaiming a 4th Reich.
They now try to present themselves as worker-friendly socialists who advocate law and order and good old traditions against some evil stalinists, anarchists and muslim terrorists, some label themselves as Third Positionists.
And thereby they are much more successful and thus dangerous than parties which are openly nazis.

And also never forget that even "pure" fascism without any nazi influence is always anti-communist and pro military and burgeoisie.

[rednordman]

And also never forget that even "pure" fascism without any nazi influence is always anti-communist and pro military and burgeoisie.To put is simple:

Fascism/Nazism = anti-communism.

This is why I get very suspicious of capitalists, who proclaim to be anti-communist. Ok this could be looked into deeply and argued forever, with good sources etc. But, after all that, you would probably come to this very same equation in the broad sense. There is nothing wrong with opposing oppressive governments of the former SU, but that is where the line should be layed. They where oppressive governments, and people need to stop making that factor sunnomonous with actual communism as a theory.
It always makes me laugh now how bourgoise sources are trying to get people think along these lines:

Fascism/Nazism = Communism

If they actually knew what they where talking about, they would see that ultimatly, everything the Nazis and fascists ever did was before anything else, against communism (or socialism/anarchism/left politics). The only thing that the two shared in common is that they where both 'oppressive governments'.

[AngelCity Neo-Stalinist]

[quote=Rise As One;1397670]why do you want to look at fascist groups? :confused:


yeah, (feeling sheepish)... What I meant by non-nazi was like an Italian or Strasserite third positionist group or something like that. My second comment "there seems to be a bit more hope for them", i didn't really mean it but i was just trying to give a justification for my odd question. Clarify my views?i just spent 2 months in a county jail for getting too roudy at a protest don't question my commitment to Communism. ;)

[AngelCity Neo-Stalinist]

I just wanted to see what they had to say about stuff and maybe troll if they had a forum or something. not like im go join em

[Dóchas]

[quote=Rise As One;1397670]why do you want to look at fascist groups? :confused:


yeah, (feeling sheepish)... What I meant by non-nazi was like an Italian or Strasserite third positionist group or something like that. My second comment "there seems to be a bit more hope for them", i didn't really mean it but i was just trying to give a justification for my odd question. Clarify my views?i just spent 2 months in a county jail for getting too roudy at a protest don't question my commitment to Communism. ;)

ok thanks maybe word it differently next time it just sounded a bit suspicious

[AngelCity Neo-Stalinist]

Ha, sure thing man. yeah i've been banned from a bunch, signing up with names like racemixingcommie and antifawarrior:laugh:

[Melbourne Lefty]

And also never forget that even "pure" fascism without any nazi influence is always anti-communist and pro military and burgeoisie.


Yup.

The "pure" fascism is a class based analysis that comes from the assumption that the needs of the "Nation" if properly cared for create a better world for all classes, and indeed may even destroy the concept of them.

Nazism and neo-nazism believe that Jews rule the world and that everything you need to know about someone can be explained through their genetic code, and that eugenics is a wonderfull way to run a society.

If Fascism and Nazism had not allied during WW2 and had been around at different points of history its entirely possible that we wouldnt see them as similar ideologies.

[Holden Caulfield]

If Fascism and Nazism had not allied during WW2 and had been around at different points of history its entirely possible that we wouldnt see them as similar ideologies.

i disagree, the issue with 'fascism/nazism' (to me, and other marxists i hope) is their relation to the labour movement and their counter-revolutionary role, not the prejudices they hold or the way they go about their own personal brand of opression. The core aspects of fascism are not the bullshit they add to it, but the class collaboration etc.

the BNP (leadership) are similar to NSDAP in alot of respects, yet the BNP have Jewish people in their party. Fascism/Nazism is an opportunistic ideology and so has differences where ever it rears it ugly head.

[Melbourne Lefty]

i disagree, the issue with 'fascism/nazism' (to me, and other marxists i hope) is their relation to the labour movement and their counter-revolutionary role, not the prejudices they hold or the way they go about their own personal brand of opression. The core aspects of fascism are not the bullshit they add to it, but the class collaboration etc.

Yes you are correct the core of fasicsm, nazism, clerical fascism, etc etc etc is its class aspect. From our perspective it should be the only thing that matters.

I was talking in terms of society in general, who sadly does not yet think in terms of class first and other considerations later.

From a class perspective their is very little difference between Fascism and nazism as they are both tools used by the capitalist system to crush working class resistance.

From the perspective of society at large if fascism and nazism had not allied to each other then fascism in particular might have a far more popular appeal than its current pariah status.

In other words Mussolini screwed up. Good thing too.



the BNP (leadership) are similar to NSDAP in alot of respects, yet the BNP have Jewish people in their party. Fascism/Nazism is an opportunistic ideology and so has differences where ever it rears it ugly head.


Hmmm...

I am coming around to your view on this, from a class perspective the BNP and the NSDAP serve the same purpose, even if they are widely different in many different areas.

This means that they cannot be fought in exactly the same way, but the need to fight them is much the same.

If the BNP and groups like them gain even a bit of success they make the working class identify themselves on tribal grounds, rather than class grounds.

This is death for any movement that wishes to base itself on working class solidarity, its also the main reason I dont like "Left" wingers playing around with identity politics.

[Refounder]

Umh, as far as I know, the Italian Social Movement (that was the heir of the PNF) and the more modern New Force have always claimed to be non-nazi, as well as many other minor neo-fascist parties in Italy. And this is just because so they have the chance to say "Well, Mussolini was a great leader and a good Prime Minister, he did a lot of good things for Italy; yeah, maybe he made one or two mistakes as for the Italy-Germany relationship, but, hey, as you can see, fascism is ok".
In other words, they want to make people think that fascism before nazifascism was a great opportunity for the country. Of course they forget that fascism was an extreme reactionary ultranationalist and racist (yes, even racist) movement under the mask of a revolutionary force well before the Pact of Steal.
I don't know if fascism alone would have been more popular than nazism. Actually, both fascism and nazism shared their moment of popularity. But I think that fascism was to become unpopular anyway: Mussolini was a charismatic yet limited person, leader of a weak and disorganized country, and he would have led this country to ruin anyway.
So as far as I can see, a fascist who claim to be non-nazi is just a cautious fascist who's trying to hide Mussolini's bloody hands. U_U

[Armand Iskra]

Umh, as far as I know, the Italian Social Movement (that was the heir of the PNF) and the more modern New Force have always claimed to be non-nazi, as well as many other minor neo-fascist parties in Italy. And this is just because so they have the chance to say "Well, Mussolini was a great leader and a good Prime Minister, he did a lot of good things for Italy; yeah, maybe he made one or two mistakes as for the Italy-Germany relationship, but, hey, as you can see, fascism is ok".
In other words, they want to make people think that fascism before nazifascism was a great opportunity for the country. Of course they forget that fascism was an extreme reactionary ultranationalist and racist (yes, even racist) movement under the mask of a revolutionary force well before the Pact of Steal.
I don't know if fascism alone would have been more popular than nazism. Actually, both fascism and nazism shared their moment of popularity. But I think that fascism was to become unpopular anyway: Mussolini was a charismatic yet limited person, leader of a weak and disorganized country, and he would have led this country to ruin anyway.
So as far as I can see, a fascist who claim to be non-nazi is just a cautious fascist who's trying to hide Mussolini's bloody hands. U_U

Well...
Mussolini is just a Misguided Patriot, the worst is that he is an opportunist; that at first, joined the PSI then dumped to create the Fascist Party. Using the Working class and putting authoritarianism a working class flavor to encourage the masses to vote for him; the worst is that he advocated revolution and at the same time maintaining the status quo. this means that this sawdust caesar is a misguided careero-opportunist.

[Refounder]

Actually I don't know if Mussolini was a sincere socialist during his period in the Psi. Surely he came from a hardline socialist-anarchist family, and he himself was member of the left-wing faction within the socialist party. Of course this doesn't prove anything.
Anyway, the fact that he already was a populist and charismatic leader (similiar to the one described by Max Weber) is quite interesting to me. As Giovanni Gentile would have later written, Mussolini was the product of a peculiar psychological, political and cultural phase of the country, and he knew how to get the people by his side. So even if he had been a sincere socialist, he already had the qualities of a dictator.

[Melbourne Lefty]

Of course they forget that fascism was an extreme reactionary ultranationalist and racist (yes, even racist) movement under the mask of a revolutionary force well before the Pact of Steal.

No I dont think the MSI ever exactly FORGOT that...:lol:

[Refounder]

You know, members of Msi were ironically called "fascists in a double-breasted suit" XD, because they have always tried to show the "respectable" face of fascism, at least in parliament. They even supported Christian democrats in a short-lived government. It was important to them to seem "respectable" in order to gain support from a conservative electorate which was afraid of a communist victory, but at the same time would have never openly supported nazifascists. It's sad, I know U_U

[Melbourne Lefty]

It was important to them to seem "respectable" in order to gain support from a conservative electorate which was afraid of a communist victory, but at the same time would have never openly supported nazifascists. It's sad, I know U_U


seems to be the main problem the fash have, do they want to be conservative or just go nutz with the conspiracy theories and the street fighting?

If they ever managed to put together a street force without the conspiracy mumbo jumbo there might be trouble, but I doubt that will ever happen.