Why I hate international football

[Devrim]

It is not primarily because it encourages nationalism even though it obviously does. I even quite enjoy watching it when it is on in the summer.

What really winds me up about international football is that it gets in the way of real football.

At this point in the two leagues that I like to watch, Turkish and English, the title race is really becoming interesting, and we have to take a week off to watch some rather uninteresting football match accompanied with large doses of jingoism when we could be watching Sivas trying to hold on to first place, or watching Manchester United to see if they blow it.

At least in Turkey, the match that we have on TV tonight should be reasonable enough in itself, Spain vs Turkey. You would expect some quality from Spain who are number one in the world rankings, and European Champions. Also Turkey are number 11 in the world and had an exciting European Championship. Some of the matches, however, like Germany vs Lichtenstein do seem more than meaningless.

Devrim

[Wanted Man]

Yeah, qualification weekends are no fun. When I speak to Scottish friends, I try to pretend that I care about Holland vs Scotland tonight, but I'm not expecting much to be honest. These matches are always boring 1-0 or 2-0 wins, or, if you're unlucky enough, there are no goals at all.

The Dutch league isn't very exciting anymore, at least not at the top end of the table, but I would like to see the Premier League right now.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I sometimes go watch our local club since i live 30 seconds away from the grounds* yeah its shit but its a nicer atmosphere then the mainstream football and alot cheaper (free)

*field with benches

[thejambo1]

i tend to agree with devrim on this, the real stuff of domestic football is what i support,i just dont get enthused about the national teams. i usually watch the games but cant get overly het up about them. i usually feel a bit empty about the whole international thing.:(

[Wanted Man]

This particular round isn't even the worst of the season, by the way. I remember at the beginning of this season, after just two matches, they also scheduled qualification games! Now that really sucked!

[Leo]

I love international football as long as the Turkish team loses :lol:

Viva Espana!

[R_P_A_S]

I hate how ignorance and nationalism just pours out of "fans" on the web forums. I was looking around the Mexico vs Costa Rica game threads and I'm embarrassed at some of the comments coming from Mexicans. It's very xenophobic and just sick.

"costa rica is a motel in central america right?"
"what do monkeys and costa ricans have in common? everything"
"is costa rica a country or a foot print in that mud puddle called central america"

"costa ricans are only good to walk bare footed eat bananas and coconuts"

G-SUS!!!!

[Wanted Man]

That's awful... I also read that some 20 people were killed at the Ivory Coast match this weekend. :(

Something interesting that was brought to my attention by a comrade: the Korea DPR team are currently at the top in their AFC fourth round qualification group! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_-_AFC_Fourth_Round

With three more games to go, qualification may well be within reach. The top two teams are through, the third-placed team will have to do a play-off with the #3 from the other group, and then a play-off against New Zealand, the Oceanian winner. If the DPRK manage an away win against the South on Wednesday, qualification is guaranteed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/North_Korea_FA.png

Will we see the DPRK in the men's World Cup now, after their successes in women's football (Asian Cup winners, U17 world champions winners)?

[Killfacer]

I love international football; the hack jingoism, the false rivalries, the flag waving. I even have an england flag in my window for the duration of the world cup. It's great fun.

In fairness though, as an England fan it's rarely anything bar bursts of optomism shortly followed by bitter dissapointment. Then the horror of penalties, usually in which Ricardo of portugal makes mugs of usually ice cold penalty takers. What is it with great english players? Whenever the pull on the jersey, they seem to lose all capacity for penalty taking.

[Chicano Shamrock]

i tend to agree with devrim on this, the real stuff of domestic football is what i support,i just dont get enthused about the national teams. i usually watch the games but cant get overly het up about them. i usually feel a bit empty about the whole international thing.:(
Well yeah I mean you are in Scotland. I would understand that it would be hard to get behind your team. You know you aren't going anywhere so it is all for nothing :tt2:

I love World Cup Qualifiers. What I don't like is that here our league usually doesn't work around the national team games so we play games with our best players missing.

I will sing our national anthem, I will chant USA, I will talk shit about Mexico or whoever but I won't do the pledge of allegiance. That is where I draw the line. It's all in good fun and I don't get mad about the shit talking but I never support any racist songs.


This one is for Killerface up there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmKOSLUJfrc

[Devrim]

Well yeah I mean you are in Scotland. I would understand that it would be hard to get behind your team. You know you aren't going anywhere so it is all for nothing :tt2:


"Well yeah I mean you are in the USA. I would understand that it would be hard to get behind your team. You know your league is awful and you aren't going anywhere so it is all for nothing."


I will sing our national anthem, I will chant USA, I will talk shit about Mexico or whoever but I won't do the pledge of allegiance.

And you are an anarcho-communist?

Devrim

[Pogue]

"Well yeah I mean you are in the USA. I would understand that it would be hard to get behind your tteam. You know your league is awful and you aren't going anywhere so it is all for nothing."



And you are an anarcho-communist?

Devrim

lol!

I wouldn't go to an England match because I wouldn't be able to chant, what with all the 'Rule Britannia' and 'God Save the Queen' bollocks.

[Killfacer]

This one is for Killerface up there
bmKOSLUJfrc

i hate my life.

[Sasha]

If the DPRK manage an away win against the South on Wednesday, qualification is guaranteed.



they lost....

[Wanted Man]

Aye. South Korea have one of the best teams in Asia after all. Now there are tough games against Iran and Saudi Arabia ahead. But I still think they can manage a second spot and qualify anyway. Or even a third, and at least get a chance in play-offs.

[Killfacer]

I reckon korea will go through. I can't wait until the worldcup, i reckon england with get into the quarters or the semis.

[thejambo1]

i think engerland could go all the way,even when you are not at your best youve got the players that can turn a game in an instant. look at last night,not too clever in the second half but still ground out a good win against a decent team.

[Killfacer]

i think engerland could go all the way,even when you are not at your best youve got the players that can turn a game in an instant. look at last night,not too clever in the second half but still ground out a good win against a decent team.

I would give anything to see England win the world cup.

[Wanted Man]

As it stands now, Spain are favourites in my opinion.

[Killfacer]

As it stands now, Spain are favourites in my opinion.

I don't reckon Spain will win.

I reckon Brazil, Netherlands, England, France, perhaps argentina but i'm not sure after their thrashing at the hands of bolivia.

[Wanted Man]

Hmm... I can't see France or England winning to be honest. Brazil maybe. I doubt Argentina. The Netherlands are looking very good now, but of course, all opponents in group 9 are a joke, so it's hard to judge how ready they really are.

[Killfacer]

Hmm... I can't see France or England winning to be honest. Brazil maybe. I doubt Argentina. The Netherlands are looking very good now, but of course, all opponents in group 9 are a joke, so it's hard to judge how ready they really are.

I think france are gonna rebound well from their dire performance in the euros. They have a really good team.

I don't actually think england will win, but you have to be optimisitic. Netherlands, like you say, are doing well at the moment. I'd like them to do well and they have a pretty irresistable attack.

[Devrim]

i think engerland could go all the way,even when you are not at your best youve got the players that can turn a game in an instant. look at last night,not too clever in the second half but still ground out a good win against a decent team.

It might look good compared to some of the fare that is offered up on your side of the boarder, but it is not that impressive.


I would give anything to see England win the world cup.
...
I don't reckon Spain will win.

I reckon Brazil, Netherlands, England, France, perhaps argentina but i'm not sure after their thrashing at the hands of bolivia.
...
I don't actually think england will win, but you have to be optimisitic.

You have got to love the English, haven't you? One minute they are including themselves in the teams that are going to win, and the next a bit of reality kicks in and they realise that they won't actually win.

However, as the clock ticks down closer and closer towards the world cup, the reality seeps away like sand falling through the hour class, and more and more they become convinced that they can actually win.

Of course, as all neutral observers know, there is only one thing stopping England from winning the world cup, and that is the fact that they aren't a very good football team. In all the other 'virtues' that are expounded in English football they excel. You can not fault the English for their heart, bravery, commitment, and all of that sort of nonsense that their press whines on about, and which of course Johnny foreigner could never posses.

Actually these are not bad qualities for a football team to have. The problem that England have is that they are not good enough on their own without the ability to pass the ball consistently to the players wearing the same colour shirts as you.

In reality England are a quarter final team. The last time they got past that was with Bobby Robsen when they were pretty lucky to be honest.

Devrim

[Killfacer]

However, as the clock ticks down closer and closer towards the world cup, the reality seeps away like sand falling through the hour class, and more and more they become convinced that they can actually win.

Of course, as all neutral observers know, there is only one thing stopping England from winning the world cup, and that is the fact that they aren't a very good football team. In all the other 'virtues' that are expounded in English football they excel. You can not fault the English for their heart, bravery, commitment, and all of that sort of nonsense that their press whines on about, and which of course Johnny foreigner could never posses.

Actually these are not bad qualities for a football team to have. The problem that England have is that they are not good enough on their own without the ability to pass the ball consistently to the players wearing the same colour shirts as you.

In reality England are a quarter final team. The last time they got past that was with Bobby Robsen when they were pretty lucky to be honest.

Devrim

Your right in that England are a quarter final team, but the rest is ridiculous.

England is a team with Gerrard (clearly one of the best midifielders in the world), Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, Theo Walcott. How can anyone with any footballing knowledge say that the only attributes england have are heart, bravery, commitment?

[Killfacer]

To be honest aswell. Pretty much everyone in England have kind of lost of the whole "we're going to win the world cup everytime we play in it" attitude. The general consesus is that the quarters are the target.

Outdated attitude. Exactly the kind of hack recycled opinion that the rest of the world seems to have about England fans.

Also remind me how not being a very good team is a barrier? Greece won the euroes. Germany have no more flair or creativity than England and they consistantly win titles. Do you know anything about football?

[Killfacer]

(edit)

[Chicano Shamrock]

"Well yeah I mean you are in the USA. I would understand that it would be hard to get behind your team. You know your league is awful and you aren't going anywhere so it is all for nothing."



And you are an anarcho-communist?

Devrim
Hell yeah. I don't let my politics get in the way of the team I support. Plus it's all in good fun it's not like I am in the military or something.

I think we might be going somewhere though. In 2002 we came pretty close to being in the final game.

[Devrim]

Hell yeah. I don't let my politics get in the way of the team I support. Plus it's all in good fun it's not like I am in the military or something.

"I try not to let my politics get in the way of my nationalism. Come on, what sort of argument is that?


I think we might be going somewhere though. In 2002 we came pretty close to being in the final game.

The question wasn't whether your team is going anywhere. The question is whether it is somewhere worth going.

Devrim

[Devrim]

To be honest aswell. Pretty much everyone in England have kind of lost of the whole "we're going to win the world cup everytime we play in it" attitude. The general consesus is that the quarters are the target.

I know English people, I read the English press. This is just basically not true.


Also remind me how not being a very good team is a barrier? Greece won the euroes. Germany have no more flair or creativity than England and they consistantly win titles. Do you know anything about football?

To be honest the Greek team was better organised than any English team I have ever seen. They may not have played beautiful football, but they did what they did well and effectively. Germany are of course generally a better organised team, and also usually technically better than England. I think the results show that or do you think it is just luck?


England is a team with Gerrard (clearly one of the best midifielders in the world), Frank Lampard, Wayne Rooney, John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, Theo Walcott. How can anyone with any footballing knowledge say that the only attributes england have are heart, bravery, commitment?

Gerrard and Lampard have never been able to play together. Terry is vastly overrated but is really a bit of a donkey, Rooney probably the best footballer in your list is more than a bit temper prone at vital points, at least Ferdinand has finally reached a level of dependability which in the past was sadly lacking, Theo Walcott is unproven, and the two Cole's are nothing special.

The answer to your question is that I have watched them play and apart from rare occasions, the last one being that impresive win in Germany, I haven't seen much else on offer.

Devrim

[Chicano Shamrock]

"I try not to let my politics get in the way of my nationalism.
Devrim
Dude I like that. That is sig worthy material right there. Fuck it... USA USA!!

[RASHskins]

Germany is gonna win the world cup.

[Killfacer]

I know English people, I read the English press. This is just basically not true.




The answer to your question is that I have watched them play and apart from rare occasions, the last one being that impresive win in Germany, I haven't seen much else on offer.

Devrim

Well your first statement is plainly wrong. People are being a lot more realistic. So stop making half baked generalisations about people you don't know cus you read something in a newspaper once.

Gerrard is alot better than rooney. Rooney is a donkey who hurtles around alot and flies off the handle at a moments notice. Even Zidane said Gerrard was probably the best player in the world at the moment and he's french.

Dire.

[Devrim]

Well your first statement is plainly wrong. People are being a lot more realistic. So stop making half baked generalisations about people you don't know cus you read something in a newspaper once.

Gerrard is alot better than rooney. Rooney is a donkey who hurtles around alot and flies off the handle at a moments notice. Even Zidane said Gerrard was probably the best player in the world at the moment and he's french.

Dire.

I think that the way they get upset when somebody dares to suggest that a football team that has never won anything apart from one World Cup at home over four decades ago might not actually be very good demonstrates my point perfectly.

Devrim

[Cult of Reason]

I don't know much about football, but the team I want to see win is either of Netherlands or the Czech Republic, as I enjoyed watching the 2-3 match in Euro 2004.:)

[Killfacer]

I think that the way they get upset when somebody dares to suggest that a football team that has never won anything apart from one World Cup at home over four decades ago might not actually be very good demonstrates my point perfectly.

Devrim

I think your argument has collapsed, you evidently know little about football and now you're just babbling on.

[Chicano Shamrock]

I think your argument has collapsed, you evidently know little about football and now you're just babbling on.
Facer now you are just letting your nationalism get in the way of your political football... or ummm :laugh:

[Killfacer]

Facer now you are just letting your nationalism get in the way of your political football... or ummm :laugh:

That's the annoying thing. I can happily admit England are a quarter final team, but devrim was just chatting out of his arse.

[Vanguard1917]

I'm 'club before country', but the World Cup and the Euros are still the main highlights for me, even when there's no England.

[The Deepest Red]

I don't see how supporting coporate entities like large football clubs is any different to supporting national teams. They encourage the same behaviour amongst fans. Gaelic sports are vastly superior to soccer anyway. :D

[Pogue]

I don't see how supporting coporate entities like large football clubs is any different to supporting national teams. They encourage the same behaviour amongst fans. Gaelic sports are vastly superior to soccer anyway. :D

lol NO

[thejambo1]

I don't see how supporting coporate entities like large football clubs is any different to supporting national teams. They encourage the same behaviour amongst fans. Gaelic sports are vastly superior to soccer anyway. :D
i can see them having world domination!!:laugh:

[Zurdito]

it depends on the circumstance.

for example if you live in Bolivia, when else do you get to see Maradona, Messi, etc., in town? and get to beat them 6-1? If it wasn't for that Bolivian football fans would be much worse off.

Likewise in Argentina or Brazil where the best players play abroad and the local league is the equivalent of raising cattle for export to the north atlantic. when else do people in S America get to participate in sport on a world class level?

I think it is good if you live in a country with a mediocre national league - which applies to anyone outsid Britain, Spain, Germany or Italy.

In fact in any field of culture, I think it is pretty conservative to wish you could keep enjoying your own parochial and idiosyncratic inetrests at the expense of great spectacles which impassion the masses and captivate whole continents (waits for abuse - I know what many people become like when it comes to football, and it proves my point).

[Devrim]

In fact in any field of culture, I think it is pretty conservative to wish you could keep enjoying your own parochial and idiosyncratic inetrests at the expense of great spectacles which impassion the masses and captivate whole continents.

I don't think that the World Cup is a great spectacle today in the actual sense of the quality of the football on show. The Champions League is far superior.


for example if you live in Bolivia, when else do you get to see Maradona, Messi, etc., in town? and get to beat them 6-1? If it wasn't for that Bolivian football fans would be much worse off.

If you live in Ankara when do you get to see the best players in the world in town? The answer is that you don't. Maybe in Istanbul, but that is seven hours of travel for me.

I think it is the same for people in many countries. What you say only applies to a few in the biggest cities.


Likewise in Argentina or Brazil where the best players play abroad and the local league is the equivalent of raising cattle for export to the north atlantic. when else do people in S America get to participate in sport on a world class level?

Are you talking about the players? If so the answer is in the Champions League.


I think it is good if you live in a country with a mediocre national league - which applies to anyone outsid Britain, Spain, Germany or Italy.

But as I said in the opening post, I would rather watch our 'mediocre', as you put it, league than watch the national team.


(waits for abuse - I know what many people become like when it comes to football, and it proves my point).

It won't becoming from this direction.

Devrim

[PC81]

I love International Footie more than club. There is nothing in this sport compares to the World Cup.
Having said that, I do love Liverpool F.C and hope we finally stop those Manchester lot.

[Zurdito]

I don't think that the World Cup is a great spectacle today in the actual sense of the quality of the football on show. The Champions League is far superior.

Firstly this doesn't solve the problem of South America. The Libertadores is not the Champions League. Secondly I am not sure if I agree, the last world cup for example was a pretty high standard. I don't think there is a huge difference between the two. Obvously champs league teams play together all year and are more organised, so it may be slightly superior in that sense...


If you live in Ankara when do you get to see the best players in the world in town? The answer is that you don't. Maybe in Istanbul, but that is seven hours of travel for me.

Mate, I do more than 7 hours travel every other weekend and so do a lot of people I know, so if you offered me affordable tickets to an international football match I would take them. :p Obviosuly we can now get into a discussion abiut affordable tickets, but I am sure that most of the people who go to international games in Turkey, just like S America or western Europe, are working class...

But, I wasn't just talking about physically seeing players play, but rather, seeing them play for/against "your" team...


I think it is the same for people in many countries. What you say only applies to a few in the biggest cities.

Maybe. but that is still an improvement. La Paz would be a poorer city if they didn't get the chance to humiliate Messi or Kaka once in a while. Regardless of the fact that stadium cpacity muist be less than 0,1% of the population etc.




But as I said in the opening post, I would rather watch our 'mediocre', as you put it, league than watch the national team.

yes, you would, and so would I in fact. But I recognise one as being superior, and more improtant culturally, than the other, and so subordinate my idiosyncratic preferences (acknowledging the fact that I am getting dangerously far from dressing room vocabulary here).




It won't becoming from this direction.


Nah I didn't think it would. I know some directions it might comre from though.:closedeyes:

[Wanted Man]

Oh, here are the highlights of South vs North Korea (Korea DPR play in white/red, Korea Republic in red):

MT31DHNfYrs

A stolen win. North Korea had a goal, it was over the line when the South Korean goalie hit it, but the referee didn't see it. :mad:

Ah well, Iran and Saudi Arabia, the two other strongest competitors, both still have to play against South Korea, the strongest team in the group.

[Zurdito]

so your revenge on a thread on why someone hates international football is to turn it into a thread about the latter?

that's even worse than my argumentitiveness!

[Wanted Man]

You got that right. ;)

Maybe there should be a new 2010 WC thread for all bourgeois nationalists... But maybe I can score brownie points by rooting for the DPRK if they qualify and end up playing against Holland.