Vietnamese socialism

[Mälli]

Ok I am confused about the situation of socialism in Vietnam now, could you tell me about that? And did socialism work in Ho Chi Minhs Vietnam? Thank you!

[Unclebananahead]

Regrettably, the government of Vietnam is instituting establishment of 'special economic zones' where capitalist activities are permitted.

[Diagoras]

Ok I am confused about the situation of socialism in Vietnam

That's interesting... I wasn't aware that there ever was socialism in Vietnam. Learn something new every day. I need to start getting memos when we decide to start naming party dictatorships as "socialist" again.

[Mälli]

I know what you mean but its still the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

[x359594]

...its still the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

The SRVN has a mixed economy with a social welfare infrastructure. The Vietnam General Confederation of Labor is the sole legal union in the country and a dissident faction has been working to ameliorate the conditions in garment industry sweatshops owned by foreign multi-nationals. The government rationalization for the presence of these companies is that it's the easiest and least disruptive way for Viet Nam to industrialize. Perhaps they intend to seize the plants and factories at some future time and turn them over to the workers.

[robbo203]

Regrettably, the government of Vietnam is instituting establishment of 'special economic zones' where capitalist activities are permitted.

You mean the state capitalist regime of Vietnam has permitted a role for for free enterprise capitalism within its territorial bounds. Now why doesnt that surprise me in the least! Next, some in the party nomenklatura will be sourcing their contacts in industry about getting their snouts in the trough when a raft of state run industries come up for privatision and sell off. They are all the same these pseudo "communists"

[communard resolution]

Now here's a thread title bound to raise some eyebrows! This could, or rather should have been the name of the new Guns N' Roses album.

[Diagoras]

I know what you mean but its still the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

As an anarchist, at least as per your profile, you should be well aware of the fact that the label of a particular state, especially when it comes to 'socialism' or 'democracy', is in no way indicative of its actual status (and is often indicative of the opposite).

[Mälli]

Just because there is no sarcasm in my posts about Vietnamese socialism doesnt mean that I think Vietnam is really socialist. With this thread I also tried to find what is socialist about Vietnam? I do not personally think that one party "communist" country is socialist at all.

[Hoxhaist]

They have always been a servant of Khruschevism and Ho Chi Minh was an opportunist who appealed to the US for aid before the USSR. Ho followed Khruschev in his reform. The final nail in the coffin for socialism in Vietnam came with opening relations to the US. That betrayal allowed imperialist economic colonialism to replace actual boots on the ground that had been won by the blood of millions of Vietnamese in their war against the Japanese, French, and SEATO occupation.

[Unclebananahead]

'Socialism with Vietnamese characteristics'? LOL! All jests aside, it really is a tragedy IMO. I hate to see a planned economy go down the path of capitalist restoration.

[Lamanov]

Regrettably, the government of Vietnam is instituting establishment of 'special economic zones' where capitalist activities are permitted.

Like state-capitalism without "individual capitalists" isn't capitalism.

[Unclebananahead]

Like state-capitalism without "individual capitalists" isn't capitalism.
Did the economic system as established by the revolutionary govt. of Vietnam improve the allocation of goods and services and thus improve the lot of the Vietnamese people? Yes or no? Were there any viable alternatives to the course they pursued? It's easy to condemn in retrospect without regard to historical circumstances.

[Lamanov]

Did the economic system as established by the revolutionary govt. of Vietnam improve the allocation of goods and services and thus improve the lot of the Vietnamese people? Yes or no?

Sure it did. But living standards improved in Europe as well at that time. That's not the point.


Were there any viable alternatives to the course they pursued?

Perhaps not, but it's good to pretend like things haven't changed, isn't it?


It's easy to condemn in retrospect without regard to historical circumstances.

Condemn? It's called critique and proper perspective.

[Crux]

Did the economic system as established by the revolutionary govt. of Vietnam improve the allocation of goods and services and thus improve the lot of the Vietnamese people? Yes or no? Were there any viable alternatives to the course they pursued? It's easy to condemn in retrospect without regard to historical circumstances.
Yes there were and as per usual the stalinists went into collaboration with the national bourguise and betrayed the revolution. Ho Chi Minh even went as far as claiming loyality to france when the PCF was in goverment.
Unknown to most, perhaps, is the fact that there was quite a strong trotskyist movement in Vietnam, particulary in Saigon. Unfortunatly they never made a clean break with Ho Chi Minh, laying down their arms at his command, resulting in them, of course, getting betrayed and executed.

[Black Dagger]

Moved to learning.

[Unclebananahead]

As usual, the ultra-leftists pour scorn upon any and all successful revolutions that result in the seizure and retention of state power. 'Real revolutionaries' we are supposed to believe, will shun state power so as to remain 'pure'. This as usual ignores the realities faced by any successful revolutionary struggle, the inevitable imperialist backlash. They don't usually pay much attention to that question. Am I saying that Ho Chi Minh and the Vietnamese comrades were perfect? That they were angels among men? No, of course not. Were mistakes made? Sure. Were there some excesses? Probably. But the Vietnamese overcame nearly insurmountable odds in the making of their revolutionary struggle. You can understand the difficulty firstly in achieving success after an exhausting decades long struggle, and secondly finding themselves at the helm of a backwards, war torn agrarian economy deliberately 'maldeveloped' by French colonialism.