Why are Anarchists in English Occupied Ireland social-loyalists?

[PeaderO'Donnell]

The "Workers Solidarity Movement" is basically Trotskyite (support for the Trade Unionism, etc) but Organize which is actually based in the occupied six counties is social-loyalist....Why is this?

[Devrim]

I wouldn't say that they are 'social loyalist'. I would say that they have class politics, not nationalist ones.

However, if you want to ask them themselves, some of them post on Libcom.org

Devrim

[Charles Xavier]

Because they are national nihilists. They don't think nations exist and they are made up in people minds. They think all states are the same, a fascist state is the same as a socialist state, a colony is the same as an imperialist state.

But the reason Ireland wasn't given tis whole territory was to divide the Irish working class.

So being a loyalist is counter-revolutionary.

[ls]

The last thing Organise is is social-loyalist.

What made you think they were?

[thejambo1]

Organise are anarcho/communist i dont understand where you get socialist-loyalist.

[Devrim]

So being a loyalist is counter-revolutionary.

Well yes, loyalism is a viciously anti-working class ideology, but then they are not loyalists.

Devrim

[Nils T.]

Because they are national nihilists. They don't think nations exist and they are made up in people minds. They think all states are the same, a fascist state is the same as a socialist state, a colony is the same as an imperialist state.Ho, come on. Your fantasms don't become real just because you write them.

[Tetsuo]

They think all states are the same, a fascist state is the same as a socialist state, a colony is the same as an imperialist state.
It generally helps if you attempt to more than half understand a group's politics before criticising them.

Obviously it's better to live in a liberal democratic state than a fascist state, better to live in a constitutional monarchy than some "Marxist Leninist" dictatorship, etc., however, the working class has nothing to gain in the long term from attempting to manage capital and the state in our interests.

[welshboy]

Organize which is actually based in the occupied six counties is social-loyalist....Why is this?
They're not.
Organise were formed from the merging of an Anarcho-Syndicalist organisation and an Anarcho-Communist organisation. They are not loyaylist and you don't know what you are talking about.
Why don't you go and ask them about their politics rather than pulling things out of thin air? Like Devrim said some of them post on Libcom, just be sure to be polite when you ask and don't make baseless sweeping statements, unless that is you can produce some evidence of them being 'social-loyalists' or you want to be torn a new one :laugh: (metaphorically speaking that is)

[welshboy]

Because they are national nihilists. They don't think nations exist and they are made up in people minds. They think all states are the same, a fascist state is the same as a socialist state, a colony is the same as an imperialist state.

But the reason Ireland wasn't given tis whole territory was to divide the Irish working class.

So being a loyalist is counter-revolutionary.
Wow, way to go with not having the slightest clue what it is you are talking about.:laugh:

[PRC-UTE]

they're sometimes called Orangeise as a slur.

I think it's down to ecological reasons- the small niche they'd be trying to recruit in would be unionist. so it would be shooting themselves in the foot to take a position against the border running through Ireland, even though they're anarchists.

same thing for the wsm, but in reverse.