Discussion on Muslim workers split from factory occupation

[Wanted Man]

Wait, how can this happen? I was told (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1379311&postcount=75) that we should actually attack all muslim people, because they are reactionary!http://209.85.48.12/13042/112/emo/drama2.gif

Seriously though, this is great news. :thumbup1:

[Devrim]

Wait, how can this happen? I was told (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1379311&postcount=75) that we should actually attack all muslim people, because they are reactionary!http://209.85.48.12/13042/112/emo/drama2.gif

Seriously though, this is great news. :thumbup1:

I think that you should look at what is happening and the terms that you are using a bit more closely.

The actual article itself does not use the same title as this thread, and doesn't make a fetish about 'Muslim women'.

Are Muslims people who believe, or people from that religious family background?

If the former, how does the person who posted it here know that these workers are Muslims? Certainly, some of them seem to be wearing headscarves, but judging from the pictures and the article (the word 'many' not 'most') it seems to be a minority.

If the latter how would you feel if, for example, an organisation in our country ran an article saying 'Christians assume democratic control of factory in Holland'? What would you understand from a headline like that?

Devrim

[Wanted Man]

I think that you should look at what is happening and the terms that you are using a bit more closely.

The actual article itself does not use the same title as this thread, and doesn't make a fetish about 'Muslim women'.

Are Muslims people who believe, or people from that religious family background?

If the former, how does the person who posted it here know that these workers are Muslims? Certainly, some of them seem to be wearing headscarves, but judging from the pictures and the article (the word 'many' not 'most') it seems to be a minority.

If the latter how would you feel if, for example, an organisation in our country ran an article saying 'Christians assume democratic control of factory in Holland'? What would you understand from a headline like that?

Devrim
You're right. I was only referring to some recent posts by a CC member who said that all muslims are "retards", that you can't work with them, and that people on the left should discriminate against them for being muslims. It's a ridiculous idea, because this article shows that, regardless of religious background, working class people are perfectly capable of acting in their own interests.

Also, people on RevLeft who feel this way fail to realise that in any strike in western countries, there will be a lot of Christian people. So for the sake of consistency, they should then also denounce such actions, as Christians are "retards". Either that, or admit that their Islamophobic views have deeply racist origins, and do not constitute some sort of enlightened criticism of religion.

So you're absolutely right in the last paragraph (although there is an explicitly Christian trade union federation here, but that's besides the point). But it's exactly this fact that exposes the hypocrisy of people on RevLeft who single out muslim people to discriminate against.

[Devrim]

Either that, or admit that their Islamophobic views have deeply racist origins, and do not constitute some sort of enlightened criticism of religion.

There is a racist campaign in the West against Muslims. It does play on real figures within the working class. If the bourgeoisie were to simply say "you should hate him then we can make more profits", you can be sure that racist campaigns wouldn't have much success.

So they play on various ideas about Islam, including ones such as "these people are fanatics who want to take away freedom of speech and make women wear bags on their heads". Of course, this wouldn't have much effect if there weren't islamicists who did want to take away freedom of speech and make women wear bags on their heads.

That some workers are taken in by this campaign does not mean that their views have 'deeply racist origins'.

In Turkey we have seen a in some ways similar campaign (though on a more political level), which has none of the racist undertones. The 'secular nationalist' wing of the bourgeoisie has tried, successfully, to mobilise workers in opposition the Islamicists because they 'want to take away freedom of speech and make women wear bags on their heads' and 'turn Turkey into Iran'.

Many workers have been taken in by this campaign, and here at least, it is not to do with 'deeply racist' ideas.


But it's exactly this fact that exposes the hypocrisy of people on RevLeft who single out muslim people to discriminate against.

In general, I don't think that it is as bad as you make out. In addition, I think you are trying to attach a moral stigma of 'racism' to some of these people when the discussion should be, in my opinion, phrased in a different way.

Yes, some of the things that are said about Muslims make me wince, but then so do some of the things said by certain people on the other side, which have gone as far as quoting Suras in what has been virtually a political defence of Islam.

Devrim