Twelve step programs

[Blackscare]

I was wondering what people on the left thought of AA and all of the similar groups that have been spawned. I know that many in the atheist crowd are suspicious or even hostile to such programs, on the basis that they are religious (which imo is a shit argument, my dad is an avowed atheist who is now 8 years sober through AA, and he never had any friction over religion with anybody). Not to say such an objection is off limits to make here just because I disagree of course :lol:

Any other arguments for/against?

Also, why is it reactionary (aimed only at the person/people who will inevitably call it reactionary, because everything on this site seems to be proclaimed reactionary by someone eventually)? :p

So what do you think it is, constructive self-improvement organization, fiendish cult, etc?

[Glenn Beck]

I think 12 step programs have the right idea in a broad sense. They could and should do without the religious crap and probably the strong emphasis on guilt. A more humanistic approach perhaps with some elements of CBT might be better.

The most appealing aspect about the therapy is that it puts the individuals ego in its proper place and fights the narcissism that is rooted in so many pathologies. Mental health is inevitably a social process and the isolation of the individual and the overinflation of the sense of self are probably the most sanity wrecking aspects of life under capitalism, and in their own way, mired in religious baggage (even when modernized and secularized its basically philosophically Christian) 12 step programs manage to combat this.

[Hegemonicretribution]

I would like to paraphrase something written on this a long time ago, either by LSD or Dhul (I think maybe the latter). Anyway they said that it was not whether or not the the program was religious or not, it was whether or not it was any good. There are good and bad ones on both sides and if it is a god one you shut up and deal with it regardless. This was from someone who knew about this more than I do, but I think they are very reasonable sentiments.

Yes it is disappointing that so many are religious, but I would be more concerned with how effective they are, than whatever their underlying message was.

So my feeelings on 12 steps...probably pretty good in some cases, not in others. I like the south park handling of them, but I don't know how much that rings true. I vote other because I do not want to give support to the scheme, but nor do I want to condemn all versions as some are apparently pretty good.

[Pirate Utopian]

Option 2.
I recommend the Penn & Teller: Bullshit! episode on it.