Can fascists be converted?

[Bitter Ashes]

I had an intresting conversation the other week with somebody I work with and it put a bit of an intresting idea in my head. It's probably easiest if I start by summarising the conversation.

It started with my colleage saying that her husband had just been made redundant and that the company was keeping the Polish workers. This brought on the racist anti-immigrant rant from her. I'm sure I dont need repeat it, as you will have heard it all before.

I told her not to blame the immigrants for the situation and that it was the fault of the free market economy that was the root cause. I explained that in order to produce goods cheaply, that consumers will buy, it's become nessicary to employ the cheapest labour possible. Polish workers are easier for employers to exploit than British workers, which makes them cheaper to employ, which in turn drives down the product cost and improves profits. It's not the fault of the Polish workers to seek out a slightly less exploitative workplace than back in Poland, but the fault of the free market for making both the English and Polish employers feel it's needed to exploit thier workers. She totaly agreed and seemed quite shocked that she hadnt spotted it before.

I was pretty shocked myself. I wasnt expecting such a good response. It was my first go at it too. I started wondering if there's more potential to convert people with such ideas in thier heads. After all, we do know that the free market and bourgeois are responsible for most workers' problems, while any assumptions of an ethnic group are not.

Is it possible to do this more often do you think and if so how would people propose we can start countering thier flawed arguements and get them seeing the real enemies to themselves, thier friends and family.

[JohnnyC]

Anyone can be converted, in theory.In practice, it may be hard but it all depends on who you are trying to convert and what approach and arguments you use.From my experience, it is much easier to convert liberals and social democrats than right wingers.Most real fascists are too far right to be converted, in my opinion.

[Bitter Ashes]

hmmm. I guess.
If you've got somebody who's just looking for an excuse to be a racist then there's not much hope really. The second you suggest that the Jews/black people/lgbt are not to blame they'll probably just start foaming at the mouth, flailing randomly and trying to bite you.
On the other hand, maybe most of them were actualy just disconent and looking for answers and the BNP just managed to give them quick and easy answers that didnt require any actualy thinking.
So, I suppose it's getting these people, that there may be hope for, to think a bit more deeply about the root causes of thier problems are.
Maybe I'm bieng too neieve and idealistic.:blushing:

[Jack]

REDO: (sorry, it fucked up)

Their ideology is so anti worker that it is nearly impossible to convert them merely by conversation. By meeting their ideology with violence, not just the demonctrations but the individuals themselves, you show them their ideology is wrong. It's nice to try and convince them, but they're so deep in the bullshit only by stomping them can you let them know their beleifs are not wanted.

[Elect Marx]

REDO: (sorry, it fucked up)

Their ideology is so anti worker that it is nearly impossible to convert them merely by conversation. By meeting their ideology with violence, not just the demonctrations but the individuals themselves, you show them their ideology is wrong. It's nice to try and convince them, but they're so deep in the bullshit only by stomping them can you let them know their beleifs are not wanted.

Your answer is simply to react with violence? Fascism is all about justifying violence. They are more likely to assume this makes violence a viable option.

[Blackscare]

Well, I'd say it's possible to win over conservatives, but not fascists (because they are right-wing radicals, they've chosen their side).

That said, I don't think the woman you described was fascist though. Maybe racist and such, but not a fascist.

[Poison]

It doesn't sound like she was fascist, just racist because of anti-immigrant sentiments.

As for actual fascism/authoritarianism, I don't really think so. There's a definite difference in what we value.

[RASHskins]

Yea that person just seems like a confused person who bought some bnp propaganda (which i think the majority of their members probably are). The fact that she changed her views so easily tells me that. Fascists value a completely different vison of the world so no, and it's not even worth the effort to try and convert them. We should be focusing on unifying the working class and attacking fascist groups not trying to convert them.

[StalinFanboy]

I don't care about converting nazis. They are fucking class enemies, and should be met with violence. If in the process a few of them decide that anarchism or whatever is more attractive than fascism, then that's cool.

[Poison]

I don't care about converting nazis. They are fucking class enemies, and should be met with violence. If in the process a few of them decide that anarchism or whatever is more attractive than fascism, then that's cool.

Because we just don't have enough people who hate us already, right?

[Devrim]

'Convert' is a very strange word to use. Class struggle is not a religion. Will fascist workers take part in class struggle? Well undoubtedly they do. I have seen and even argued with fascist workers on picket lines on many occasions. Will some of them be won over to communist ideas? Undoubtedly yes. I personally know people who used to be fascists and are now militants of revolutionary organisations.

Also, what is special about fascism? To make a successful revolution workers of with all sorts of different ideologies will need to be 'converted' to communism.

The question could equally be can xxxx* be converted?

Devrim

*Insert suitable bourgeois ideology here; conservatives, democrats, liberals, Christians, Hindus, Muslims,...

[Marxist]

I guess it´s individual , but a little graps of the old ideas always stays in one´s head i think

[Pogue]

She wasn't a fascist, but people like her can and must be won over. Hardcore neo-nazis, I dobut it, and its not worth trying. But our job as revolutionaries is to 'convert' people like this woman you mentioned.

[Dimentio]

I had an intresting conversation the other week with somebody I work with and it put a bit of an intresting idea in my head. It's probably easiest if I start by summarising the conversation.

It started with my colleage saying that her husband had just been made redundant and that the company was keeping the Polish workers. This brought on the racist anti-immigrant rant from her. I'm sure I dont need repeat it, as you will have heard it all before.

I told her not to blame the immigrants for the situation and that it was the fault of the free market economy that was the root cause. I explained that in order to produce goods cheaply, that consumers will buy, it's become nessicary to employ the cheapest labour possible. Polish workers are easier for employers to exploit than British workers, which makes them cheaper to employ, which in turn drives down the product cost and improves profits. It's not the fault of the Polish workers to seek out a slightly less exploitative workplace than back in Poland, but the fault of the free market for making both the English and Polish employers feel it's needed to exploit thier workers. She totaly agreed and seemed quite shocked that she hadnt spotted it before.

I was pretty shocked myself. I wasnt expecting such a good response. It was my first go at it too. I started wondering if there's more potential to convert people with such ideas in thier heads. After all, we do know that the free market and bourgeois are responsible for most workers' problems, while any assumptions of an ethnic group are not.

Is it possible to do this more often do you think and if so how would people propose we can start countering thier flawed arguements and get them seeing the real enemies to themselves, thier friends and family.

Yes, of course fascists could convert. Xenophobic people could also become less xenophobic.

Leftists could also turn into fascists.

There has historically been a competition between the socialist left and the fascist right over worker class votes. Sadly, it looks like the fascists got an edge now in Europe.

[Melbourne Lefty]

The only real way to convert a fascist would be to first stress the points that our ideologies agree on [international free market capitalism is bad] and go from there.

You have to remember that in the mind of most neo-fascists the working class of their "People" have been betrayed by the upper classes who have "sold them out".

Perhaps stressing the fact that the only real way to get back at these "traitors" is to organise along class lines not race lines.

However converting an anti-semite is impossible, dont even try, they are conspiracy theorists of an extreme that makes UFO enthusiasts look tame.

Dont believe me?

Look up some to the holocaust denial stuff ,its nuts.

Most neo-fascist groups with a hope in hell of getting anywhere have dumped it and run as far away from it as possible, Fini in Italy has gone to Israel to prove he is not an anti-semite, Griffin in the UK is flogging a pro-zionist stance as much as he can to make up for past... er... comments...

The German groups tend to keep it up, as do most of the minor nazi groups across eastern europe as far as I can tell. But most in the west [LePen aside] seem to see that anti-semitic conspiracies are a death wish if you want to gain any votes from any one at all.

I still cannot decide if this is a good thing or not, im leaning towards not.:(

[redSHARP]

redemption is there for all who seek it. a large number of fascists
(NA, KKK, CCC) in the US do convert eventually, in fact i know a few and they continually seek to right the wrongs they felt they committed. its all up to the person if they convert or not.

[Bitter Ashes]

The only real way to convert a fascist would be to first stress the points that our ideologies agree on [international free market capitalism is bad] and go from there.

You have to remember that in the mind of most neo-fascists the working class of their "People" have been betrayed by the upper classes who have "sold them out".

Perhaps stressing the fact that the only real way to get back at these "traitors" is to organise along class lines not race lines.

However converting an anti-semite is impossible, dont even try, they are conspiracy theorists of an extreme that makes UFO enthusiasts look tame.

Dont believe me?

Look up some to the holocaust denial stuff ,its nuts.

Most neo-fascist groups with a hope in hell of getting anywhere have dumped it and run as far away from it as possible, Fini in Italy has gone to Israel to prove he is not an anti-semite, Griffin in the UK is flogging a pro-zionist stance as much as he can to make up for past... er... comments...

The German groups tend to keep it up, as do most of the minor nazi groups across eastern europe as far as I can tell. But most in the west [LePen aside] seem to see that anti-semitic conspiracies are a death wish if you want to gain any votes from any one at all.

I still cannot decide if this is a good thing or not, im leaning towards not.:(
Actualy, I would swap the order of the first and second paragraphs around, but otherwise agree.
I think the most important thing about showing anyone that we've got the right idea is to first challenege the things that seem to be bothering them most and go from there.
When talking to 90% of people too it's probably best to avoid mentioning any of the stigma words that the bourgois have made "dirty" in the media too.
If they're seeing the bourgeois as "traitors" for handing out jobs of the people they feel most close to, then getting them to see WHY the bourgeois have done so; i.e. It's more profitable.
If they become absolutly adamant that it's that kind of conspiricy theory that you've described, then yup, probably no hope. If they can allocate blame where it's due though then there's a chance. If they can see the true evil is determined by means of production and not of race, gender or sexuality, then you can begin to show how equality is not to blame for any of thier problems.
Maybe I'm feeling incorrectly that breaking down predjucies is that 2nd highest priority and possibly overlooking more indepth parts of our idealogy, because I'm personaly baised.
I think what would really help is to hear from one of the ex-far-right and hear thier personal account on what changed thier minds.

[Dr Mindbender]

My $0.02-

I think fascists can be converted, likewise communists can also turn to fascism (Mussolini and Oswald Mosley both started out on the left). However at the same time i don't think it's something we need to dwell on.

I think our resources and time can be better channelled towards the politically floating who are concerned with bread and butter issues rather than the opinionated ranks of the right who remain convinced that immigration etc is the cause of problems. Moreover, they remain the minority so we should concentrate on winning over the silent majority.

[black magick hustla]

Mussolini was of the left wing of the PSI btw. He was one of the few internationalists that opposed sardinia's imperialist adventures

[Dimentio]

I don't find it impossible that Mao or Stalin could have turned into some sort of fascists would the situation have been different.

[Killfacer]

Apparently, if you cut off a fascists head, you get their powers.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

The ablity to live with yourself while looking like captain derper?

I dont really want those powers.

[Melbourne Lefty]

I don't find it impossible that Mao or Stalin could have turned into some sort of fascists would the situation have been different.

You mean they didnt?:tt2:

[Holden Caulfield]

please stop chit-chatting this thread up.

in short:
Q. Can fascists be 'converted'?

A. Yes, obviously, unless you think ideas are somehow hard wired into peoples heads and/or you completely neglect the material circumstances that lead to the rise of fascism.

[Killfacer]

I think it's virtually impossible to win over some people. Most however, can probably be "converted" (or assimilated as some old space friends of mine used to say).

Others however, have rightfully pointed out that it would be such a painstaking process that it's completely pointless. I'm talking about proper bone head fascists, not some italian worker who voted for some fascist who i'm sure would be a fair bit easier to win around.

[Holden Caulfield]

I'm talking about proper bone head fascists, not some italian worker who voted for some fascist who i'm sure would be a fair bit easier to win around.

it can happen is the point, there is a video on youtube somewhere of an old anarchist guy talking saying he used to be a proper bonehead, he says summit like:

"when i was younger, ignorant, poor and angry, i was a fascist, i was poor and it made sense to blame somebody, just blame some 'darkies' it all made sense to me then"

this guy was obviously converted.

Im not saying every fascist will be converted, im saying every human being is capable of changing their mind.

[Glorious Union]

When I read the title of this thread I thought "No."

After reading the OP I am actually willing to actually try that...

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Supporters of Fascist groups are mostly disillusioned working class people. They can definitely be converted. I am only interested in converting them, not the people who run these things.

[Killfacer]

it can happen is the point, there is a video on youtube somewhere of an old anarchist guy talking saying he used to be a proper bonehead, he says summit like:

"when i was younger, ignorant, poor and angry, i was a fascist, i was poor and it made sense to blame somebody, just blame some 'darkies' it all made sense to me then"

this guy was obviously converted.

Im not saying every fascist will be converted, im saying every human being is capable of changing their mind.

As per usual, the massiah is bang ion the mark.

[Bitter Ashes]

Others however, have rightfully pointed out that it would be such a painstaking process that it's completely pointless.
Well, it's sort of a double whammy isnt it? Not only are you helping workers and the progress of socialism, but also draining the power of the facists.

[lylt]

One of the people I knew at high school was an outspoken fascist, he went the whole hog, Heiling Hitler at every opportunity, picking fights with minorities, listening to old Wehrmacht marching songs, the lot, and in the space of a year he transformed from being a white power skinhead to a decent, tolerant, respectful man with a bright future.

The young man was indoctrinated by them, he was unable to make a sentence without making a derogatory comment about minorities, it seemed. Fascism creeps into the poor victims minds, where it strangles all logical thought untill the victim is a mindless drone, mindlessly cheering any atrocity if it furthers the fascist cause, or disdaining the greatest act of heroism if it contradicts their arguments.

Fascists can be converted, if it is caught at an early stage, before it has taken root. It is, by its very nature, a disease, recognising the symptoms can save the victims life.

[A_Ciarra]

I think the group mind is the biggest problem here. People are usually easy enough to talk sense to when you catch them before they are deeply engrossed with a group --- once they go there, the group dynamics pretty much take over. That's when they get truly sick. Of course group leaders know just how to hold people captive too.

By all means, the fight against ignorance is always worth fighting ---and the best way to get to anyone, is to remove them from the group and then sabotage the groups perceived integrity with cold hard facts (or a good beating).

[Killfacer]

Well, it's sort of a double whammy isnt it? Not only are you helping workers and the progress of socialism, but also draining the power of the facists.

But trying to convert fascists on an individual basis would take far too long.

[Bitter Ashes]

Aye. Maybe it's something that comes at a later date when there's more people involved in increasing class consciousness.

[PeaderO'Donnell]

Anyone can be converted, in theory.In practice, it may be hard but it all depends on who you are trying to convert and what approach and arguments you use.From my experience, it is much easier to convert liberals and social democrats than right wingers.Most real fascists are too far right to be converted, in my opinion.

In terms of economnics the BNP is too the "left" of the Labour party and indeed most social democratic parties in the western world.

[Killfacer]

Aye. Maybe it's something that comes at a later date when there's more people involved in increasing class consciousness.

Best way to convince them is to strong arm them into surrender. Anyone who says it doesn't work doesn't realise the devestating effect of cable street on the British Union of Fascists.

[Pogue]

I think its very unlikely and often not worth dedicating time too. Just like with the police its not worth doing and your best bet is to try to stop pleading with them to see things your way and just try and defend yourselves against them and struggle against them by organising the working class and struggling as a class.

Having said that, we know there have been some individuals who have been fascists or police and have moved to our side. Cases with the police:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4280326.ece

Also, myself. I used to be a bit of a reformist social democract type who thought the police were out to help people and I wanted to do that and so I wanted to join. I was in their cadet youth group thing. I came out of that and actually became an anarchist, because I realised what I believed in was not what the police actually do. I think some people might be like that who hold some far-right views, but its not something we should or even could focus on, and those who do change'd probably be in the minority.

I think there are some fascists, people who go further than just a bit of xenoephobia and racism (these people, which there are alot of, can and must be converted) who might one day change and become more moderate and normal. Perhaps those who chose fascism in youth and realised what bollocks it is later in life, but when you get that involved with white supremacist, Nazi, fascist politics, I'd say its going to stay with you for a while and your the irrational sort who will stick to that rubbish. Same with how many police officers become involved with what they do, get the whole brainwash training stuff (one of the things I picked up on which also made me quit) and thus become hardened against appeals to stop doing the stuff they do.

[Holden Caulfield]

Aye. Maybe it's something that comes at a later date when there's more people involved in increasing class consciousness.
this.
i dont see how there can be so much discussion for so obvious a question

[DreamWeaver]

'converted' makes it sound like it's a religious thing, something that I've noticed among a lot of communists. Ontopic I do think that it is possible for nazi's to become leftists or even communists (anarchists might be a step too far-no autority and such). Fascism might serve the bourgouisie well, and enable the elite and capitalism to stay in power, but the body of fascist groups are made of working class people who just want the best for their people. The biggest difference between fascists and communists is that they base their struggle on race rather than class. Once they realise fascism does not improve the quality of life of their people they might broaden their horizon and come to the conclusion that class-struggle is the answer. Moreover, people who tend to be on the extreme right will nearly always transfer to the other extreme when adopting ideas. This happens on the other side aswel, i.e anti-imperialists going strasserite-nazism due to issues like immigrationpolitics and corporatocracy.

[Dimentio]

http://zoonicdehedgehoog.blogspot.com/

Many fascists are so insane that if we converted them, they would become more of a hindrance I suspect.

[eisidisirock]

http://www.youtube.com/user/johnnyleeclary

[Kobo]

I had an intresting conversation the other week with somebody I work with and it put a bit of an intresting idea in my head. It's probably easiest if I start by summarising the conversation.

It started with my colleage saying that her husband had just been made redundant and that the company was keeping the Polish workers. This brought on the racist anti-immigrant rant from her. I'm sure I dont need repeat it, as you will have heard it all before.

I told her not to blame the immigrants for the situation and that it was the fault of the free market economy that was the root cause. I explained that in order to produce goods cheaply, that consumers will buy, it's become nessicary to employ the cheapest labour possible. Polish workers are easier for employers to exploit than British workers, which makes them cheaper to employ, which in turn drives down the product cost and improves profits. It's not the fault of the Polish workers to seek out a slightly less exploitative workplace than back in Poland, but the fault of the free market for making both the English and Polish employers feel it's needed to exploit thier workers. She totaly agreed and seemed quite shocked that she hadnt spotted it before.

I was pretty shocked myself. I wasnt expecting such a good response. It was my first go at it too. I started wondering if there's more potential to convert people with such ideas in thier heads. After all, we do know that the free market and bourgeois are responsible for most workers' problems, while any assumptions of an ethnic group are not.

Is it possible to do this more often do you think and if so how would people propose we can start countering thier flawed arguements and get them seeing the real enemies to themselves, thier friends and family.


Yes, it is easier to convert a fundamentalist than a moderate, even if it is from the extreme right to extreme left or vise versa. It deals with the "true believer" mindset inheret in the mind of a fundamentalist. Indeed, the fundamentalist of the extreme right and extreme left have more in common than the moderate (in terms on mindset).

So, yes, it is easier to convert an extreme fascist to communism than a moderate!

In my well educated opinion, for I have read and learned much of both sides, ultimetly it is a blend of the extreme right and left that will come about. For true communism or true capitalism cannot survive. It is a blend of both, socialism maybe, that works.

Innovation and natural human greed will not let true communism materialize. A true free market will not come about for reason all of you are familiar :)

Cheerio,

Kobo

[Holden Caulfield]

Innovation and natural human greed will not let true communism materialize.


natural human greed? we are not naturally anything other wise why would some be charitable, selfless or live in a commune. Why would some societies be based on sharing such as tribal societies, or native american societies.

Human nature doesnt exist.

[Pogue]

natural human greed? we are not naturally anything other wise why would some be charitable, selfless or live in a commune. Why would some societies be based on sharing such as tribal societies, or native american societies.

Human nature doesnt exist.

Yeh, 'human nature' is such a load of shit backed up by no science or logic or obervations of reality.

[Pogue]

Yes, it is easier to convert a fundamentalist than a moderate, even if it is from the extreme right to extreme left or vise versa. It deals with the "true believer" mindset inheret in the mind of a fundamentalist. Indeed, the fundamentalist of the extreme right and extreme left have more in common than the moderate (in terms on mindset).

So, yes, it is easier to convert an extreme fascist to communism than a moderate!

In my well educated opinion, for I have read and learned much of both sides, ultimetly it is a blend of the extreme right and left that will come about. For true communism or true capitalism cannot survive. It is a blend of both, socialism maybe, that works.

Innovation and natural human greed will not let true communism materialize. A true free market will not come about for reason all of you are familiar :)

Cheerio,

Kobo

You clearly have no idea what socialism or communism is.

How on earth can you mix capitalism and communism?

A world without classes where there are classes?

The absence of a state alongside a state?

If you want to come here and troll, at least know what you're talking about first. Or be insanely stupid, like the Nazi trolls who come and spam sieg heil in caps a few times, giving us all a good laugh. What your doing is just cringing, but luckily easily ignored. Enjoy OI by the way.

[Bitter Ashes]

Hey, go easy HLVS. Only 2 posts from that poster. Give them a chance to learn.

[Partizani]

Its quite interesting how on stormfront alot of them are just dissolutioned teenagers, one post i read on there was about this nazi fanboy being worried about minorities, his post had more holes than swiss cheese. Then at the end his signature even further opened my mind to how these people think, it was 'If we are born equal why do we have different skin colour', i mean come on that can be disproven in a instance with what climate you are born in useually determines your skin colour because of the surrronding environment.

People like that will hopefully relise this later on in thier life and grow thier hair and stop being such twats.

[teenagebricks]

Sure, maybe they will mature with age, quit being racists, denounce fascism, that would be good, or alternatively they could just die in a fire, which I would also support.

[Zurdito]

A good lesson in this Tacuara:

A large number, including one of the founders, of the would-be fascist (falangist) group Tacuara in Argentina, ended up being left-wing guerillas, when they saw that Argentina could not be a world power without taking on imperialism, and that to do this meant elevating the economic and cultural level of the masses, and opposing the most concentrated sectors of the bourgeoisie .

The rest ended up serving the secret services against the left and despite their nationalist rhetoric were never able to be anything more than tools for the oligarchy and multinationals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_Nacionalista_Tacuara

I don't think it's the same in the case of first world countries though, where fascists can put forward imeprialist policies against the third world and unite a mass movement around that. In Latin America that was never possible, so nationalists had to go to the left.

Second I am not saying that even in the case of the Tacuara, that they deserved some kind of sympathy when they were fascists. They didn't, and when they went to the left, they took with them their bourgeois self-importance and disregard for class politics.

Lesson being that you can't win fascists to be good revolutionaries on the basis of what they already are - all you can do is win a screwed up, angry nihilist to tag some other label on themselves. To actually "convert" tehm, you need to destroy what they are today. 99% won't convert. If some do, fine, but not on the basis of concessions to them.

[Melbourne Lefty]

Its quite interesting how on stormfront alot of them are just dissolutioned teenagers


they say the same about us.



A large number, including one of the founders, of the would-be fascist (falangist) group Tacuara in Argentina, ended up being left-wing guerillas, when they saw that Argentina could not be a world power without taking on imperialism, and that to do this meant elevating the economic and cultural level of the masses, and opposing the most concentrated sectors of the bourgeoisie


True believers are true believers, when they realise that fighting the system is better than fighting for smaller issues they may just convert.

True fascists have a deep sense of class analysis albeit sometimes in the form of denial, as such they would be the easiest of the far right to convert back to sanity.

[Rouge]

Actually, I was wondering the same thing. I have an emerging fascist friend and I'd like to try to talk him out of it.

[Armand Iskra]

Perhaps, Converting them is difficult, PURGING THEMSELVES WITH REEDUCATION and RECTIFICATION OF THEIR ERRORS is better. They need to rectify their mistakes, their attitude towards the people, especially the ones who affected, and to study left works, especially basic ones diligently. To become class conscious and to contribute into the cause.

Fascists are known for calling themselves "patriotic", but they aren't deserve to be called "patriotic" since they are more emphasized on "race" in achieving their struggle than the "people". Too much focus on "blood" and "racial features" as part of their so-called national heritage that makes them not knowing social justice and welfare for the common good and instead-to glorify the race and preserving the nation's integrity. I'd rather rather hear what Mao said on Patriotism and Internationalism:
The patriotism of a communist nation and an internationalist sympathy for just struggles in other countries are in no way exclusive; on the contrary, they are linked deeply, as communism spreads throughout the world. At the same time, it is important for a country to retain modesty, and shun arrogance.
Arrogance is one of the traits what Fascists used to, calling it as pride; and that is the illness of their kind.

In revolution, Fascists also called for a "national revolution"; but their action seemed not to be deserved to call as a "revolution" since they want to preserve the status quo instead of changing the entire system. Perhaps, these fascists who wanted to change sides must know the word "revolution" since they wanted change, and not of maintaing it.

In case of "cooperation" what these fascists says, seemed partially applicable, Lenin told us about cooperation:
"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." (http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/vladimir+ilyich+lenin)
As well as this, from the Comintern:
“The united front tactic is simply an initiative whereby the Communists propose to join with all workers belonging to other parties and groups and all unaligned workers in a common struggle to defend the immediate, basic interests of the working class against the bourgeoisie.”
However, this is more applicable to the classes (Workers, Farmers, Progressive minded Petit-bourgeois and Progressive industrialists) who are exploited by the ruling class (Imperialists, Bureaucrat Capitalists, Landlords). And this so-called cooperation must be guided by the proletariat since they are the majority, the ones who toil! in short: THE WORKING CLASS.

[Holden Caulfield]

^^ I dont even know where to start... Ill respond later, i hope somebody beats me to it

[Melbourne Lefty]

PURGING THEMSELVES WITH REEDUCATION and RECTIFICATION OF THEIR ERRORS


not touching that one....

You still taking the pills Armand?

[hippiedude94]

Usually fascists are just uneducated people who don't know any better. If somebody taught them otherwise, I'm sure they could be easily converted.

[Antioch]

Too many of you guys seem to be confusing fascism with racism and national socialism. Most actual fascists, as compared to Nazis, are not racist, instead they discriminate by the individual worth, which, while still terrible, is not the indiscriminate hatred of the KKK.

So yeah, we can probably convert them.

((I only skimmed this thread, though.))

[Verix]

Its unlikey that a fascist will just wake up one day and become a communist/anarcist, the best way to convert a fascist is to get them to become a slowy become more left wing its alot easyer to convert a (american) conservative then a fascist, focus on getting them to be a liberal
once there they will be alot easyer to convert.

[MilitantAnarchist]

Yes of course they can, i know this because i am one of them.
I just read someone that said 'disillusioned working class' and that is exactly it. My 'excuse' if you call it that, was it was post July 7th bombings, my boss was hindu and was picking on me, muslim customers insulting me, muslim guy getting promoted infront of me, a lot of drug crime in the area and media portraying it as all blacks and asians... and you get pissed off with the world, and you get some nazi in your ear saying 'its all their fault' and when your young you buy into it... cos its easy to blame somebody else for the shit thats about.
Luckily i was intelligent enough to realise i was wrong, and you cant blame EVERY SINGLE hindu or muslim for one arsehole. And the C18 tossers that was in my ear were just fucking retarded racists.
So i believe some people are saveable, but some aint...

[Melbourne Lefty]

And the C18 tossers that was in my ear were just fucking retarded racists.


yeah well some people aint so lucky.

Imagine if instead of some batshit stupid C18 wanker in your ear you had been given a BNP style treatment instead, softly softly catchee monkee sort of thing.

There are a lot of people out there who are pissed off, and in europe there is a new brand of "post-fash" who can whisper in their ears a hell of a lot better than the old goose steppers.

Good on you for seeing the light, but sadly many people wont have the advantages you did, some are just too angry, some get approached by a smart recruiter instead of a C18 moron.

Can people like this be converted? Yes. But only with great effort.

The trick would be to never need to convert them in the first place by creating a line of political education that is easily understood, and then spreading it as far as possible.

[Armand Iskra]

not touching that one....

You still taking the pills Armand?

Don't get offended huh, but you are speaking below the belt out of reading a reply. Perhaps you havent met a Filipino in this post.