Log in

View Full Version : Saudi Women Boycott Lingerie Shops



Voice_of_Reason
26th March 2009, 00:28
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – Before her wedding last year, Huda Batterjee went abroad to buy her bridal lingerie — she just couldn't bear the humiliation of discussing her most intimate apparel with a man. She had little choice: there are almost no saleswomen in Saudi Arabia. Now a group of Saudi women — sick of having to deal with male sales staff when buying bras or panties, not to mention frilly negligees or thongs — have launched a campaign this week to boycott lingerie stores until they employ women.
It's an irony of the kingdom's strict segregation of the sexes. Only men are employed as sales staff to keep women from having to deal with male customers or work around men.
But in lingerie stores, that means men are talking to women about bras or thongs, looking them up and down to determine their cup sizes, even rubbing the underwear to show how stains can be washed out.
The result is mortifying for everyone involved — shoppers, salesmen, even the male relatives who accompany the women.
"When I buy underwear in Saudi, some salesmen say, 'This is not the right size for you,'" said Batterjee. "You feel almost taken advantage of. Why is he looking at me in this way?"
So for her wedding trousseau, the 26-year-old went to neighboring Dubai to shop. She now lives in Virginia with her husband.
Heba al-Akki, a businesswoman who supports the boycott, said when she shops for underwear, "I go to a store, pick this, this and that and leave quickly. It's as if I'm buying illegal stuff."
It's not easy on the salesmen either.
At one lingerie boutique in a Riyadh mall Wednesday, salesmen blushed when asked about their jobs. All said they back the campaign to hire female sales staff.
"Even in such open regions as the U.S. and Europe, men do not sell underwear to women," said store manager Husam al-Mutayim, a 27-year-old Egyptian. "I don't let any of my female relatives buy underwear from men. It's just too embarrassing."
Mannequins — headless in keeping with a ban on realistic depictions of women — were displayed in the shop window dressed in modest pajamas. Inside, racks held an array of colorful bras, lacy panties and sexy nighties — along with more day-to-day undergarments.
Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic law, women are required to cover themselves head-to-toe in black robes in public. But in the privacy of their own homes — and bedrooms — they can wear whatever they want, and sexy undergarments are popular.
But buying them is another story. Fitting rooms are banned in the kingdom — the idea of a woman undressing in a public place with men just outside is unthinkable. So a woman is never sure she has chosen the right size until she gets it home.
"I have bras with sizes ranging from 32 to 38 because I can't get to try them on," said Modie Batterjee, Huda's sister and one of the boycott organizers.
Even male relatives get dragged into the embarrassment. Women are allowed to shop without a male relative, but husbands or brothers sometimes insist on coming along — or the women want them there — to ensure salesmen stay respectful.
Modie Batterjee recalls how her husband fled a lingerie store because he could not bear to hear her explain to a salesman that she wanted high-waisted underwear to hold in her tummy after their daughter's birth.
The boycott was launched on Tuesday by about 50 women who gathered in the Red Sea port of Jiddah at the Al-Bidaya Breast-feeding Resource and Women's Awareness Center, which is run by Modie Batterjee.
The aim is to push for implementation of a law that has been on the books since 2006 which says only female staff can be employed in women's apparel stores.
The law has never been put into effect, partly due to hard-liners in the religious establishment who oppose employing women in mixed environments like malls, where religious police are always on the lookout to keep men and women from interacting.
Hiring women would also deprive men of jobs in a country where more than 10 percent of men are unemployed.
"We are raising awareness and calling for the implementation of the law," said Reem Asaad, a finance lecturer at Dar al-Hikma Women's College in Jiddah, who supports the boycott.
The campaign calls on women to shop at the country's few women-only lingerie stores. Usually stand-alone boutiques or located in malls that have women-only sections, these shops have no windows to ensure passing men cannot look in — and giving women the freedom to actually try things on.
How much impact the boycott call will have is unclear. Almost 1,700 people signed an online petition posted by Asaad on the social networking Web site Facebook. A few Saudi papers have written about it, but the campaign depends mostly on word of mouth.
Not all women support the idea. At the Riyadh lingerie shop on Wednesday, one woman — only her eyes visible through the black veil covering her face — said she is suspicious of women-only lingerie shops.
"Bad things happen there," she said.
What might that be?
Women can sneak a picture of you changing with their mobile phones, she replied and refused to give her name.


Original Post http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090325/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_lingerie_boycott

fabiansocialist
26th March 2009, 14:12
This could topple the regime and hence throw another spanner in the US's geostrategic ambitions in the region.

Poison
26th March 2009, 15:58
Good luck to them...I like that they're arguing that it's embarassing for them, not that it allows men to look at them in, uh, terribly naughty ways. They're pushing for it on their own terms.

pastradamus
27th March 2009, 07:37
Saudi Women actually wear lingerie?!?! With so much clothes on the outside I dont know why they bother. That people is what I have learned today.

StalinFanboy
27th March 2009, 21:55
Saudi Women actually wear lingerie?!?! With so much clothes on the outside I dont know why they bother. That people is what I have learned today.
Apparently you chose not to read this part
"Under Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islamic law, women are required to cover themselves head-to-toe in black robes in public. But in the privacy of their own homes — and bedrooms — they can wear whatever they want, and sexy undergarments are popular."

ร‘รณẊรฎรถʼn
28th March 2009, 01:49
"Bad things happen there," she said.
What might that be?
Women can sneak a picture of you changing with their mobile phones, she replied and refused to give her name. How likely is it that you're going to be have your picture taken by mobile in a changing room? Whereas under the current system, you're definately ogled by a bloke who's got a good chance of being sexually repressed. Either you secretly enjoy the attention or you haven't really thought this through.

Steve_j
28th March 2009, 02:16
Saudi Women actually wear lingerie?!?! With so much clothes on the outside I dont know why they bother.

What? That doesnt make sense.

Do you wear lingerie? If so do you wear it so it is seen in public?

Yazman
28th March 2009, 12:11
Saudi Women actually wear lingerie?!?! With so much clothes on the outside I dont know why they bother. That people is what I have learned today.

A lot of people for some reason seem to think shit like this. It blows me away. They aren't any less interested in fashion than women elsewhere simply because they wear large overgarments - many of them keep up with the latest fashion trends etc and wear some pretty nice looking clothes underneath their overgarment.

But yeah, good on them - the Saudi government needs to be overthrown for sure!

Dimentio
28th March 2009, 14:52
Even though I understand a lot of women may find this uncomfortable, I do not see how it relates to worker struggles, to be honest.

Yazman
28th March 2009, 15:13
Yeah, it should probably be in discrimination.

PRC-UTE
28th March 2009, 20:42
Moved to discrimination.

Hiero
29th March 2009, 01:22
A lot of people for some reason seem to think shit like this. It blows me away. They aren't any less interested in fashion than women elsewhere simply because they wear large overgarments - many of them keep up with the latest fashion trends etc and wear some pretty nice looking clothes underneath their overgarment.

But yeah, good on them - the Saudi government needs to be overthrown for sure!
Although I agree that the comprador Saudi Government needs to be overthrown and replaced with a anti-imperialist, socialist and secular governmet, this issue on lingerie is hardly part of that issue. These women are calling for reform, not revolution.

Yazman
29th March 2009, 12:10
Although I agree that the comprador Saudi Government needs to be overthrown and replaced with a anti-imperialist, socialist and secular governmet, this issue on lingerie is hardly part of that issue. These women are calling for reform, not revolution.

I wasn't connecting them. I'm just saying - the Saudi government does need to be overthrown.

Bilan
29th March 2009, 12:53
They're just knickers...
Although, admittedly, it can be a bit awkward haha.

TC
29th March 2009, 13:48
What, frankly, a stupid discussion. Of all of the daily humiliations and insults to their humanity Saudi women face this has to be among the more trivial ones. Being treated as a permanent child-chatel-property of your male relatives and husband, unable to even show your face in public let alone engage in public life independently, is magnitudes more dehumanizing then buying underwear from men. As humiliations go, I'd rather be in the position of needing to buy underwear from a male store owner than needing to ask my father or brother to escort me too and from the store dressed in a state mandated deliberately anonymizing uniform.

For that matter is this even, as a practical experience, more embarrassing than having to ask male store owners to get condoms from behind the counter or male pharmacists for birth control (which while not legally enforced can often be a practical requirement in the West).

If anything the play that this issue which, given the Saudi context is minor, has been given, speaks more to a desire to avoid the major issue: that Saudi women are defacto property of their families. Of course they have to buy underwear from men, they can't buy anything or do anything except with permission from a man.

More Fire for the People
29th March 2009, 14:19
This is a clusterfuck of gender oppression and sexist self-hatred.

Revy
30th March 2009, 05:29
They have to start somewhere. Remember, they want the stores to allow female employees, and job opportunities for women are understandably rare.

They want to be able to know if these items fit, they don't want to be spending extra money on lingerie that doesn't fit because of this situation.

I think it would be better if these women were not looked down upon because of the issue they raised.

Yazman
30th March 2009, 13:27
This is a clusterfuck of gender oppression and sexist self-hatred.

What is? This movement in Saudi Arabia, or this thread?

TC
30th March 2009, 20:52
I think it would be better if these women were not looked down upon because of the issue they raised.

I applaud you for your creative effort to misconstrue what I and/or others have said for the sake of creating needless discord and self-promotion at others expenses. Intellectual dishonesty is a trait that will get you far on revleft!

JimmyJazz
30th March 2009, 21:01
God stancel, wtf.