Best job as revolutionaries

[Stranger Than Paradise]

What is the best job for an Anarchist/Marxist etc to have? Should we by duty earn a humble wage and live a humble life or do you think it is ok to live a lavish life yet still call yourself an Anarchist/Marxists etc.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

As long as its not a job which is fucking disgusting such as a cop etc i see no reason why to purposely condemn yourself to shit living conditions for some kind of "revolutionary purity"

[Nils T.]

Don't know for the marxists, but the rest of the revolutionnaries should know that duty sucks and that there's enough other motives, often more subversive (that's not difficult), to decide how to live one's life while avoiding to resort to this one.

But a lavish existence is rarely satisfying, even for a revolutionnary who have some ideas about what to do with it. Wealth in a capitalist system is just loads of misery.

[punisa]

What is the best job for an Anarchist/Marxist etc to have? Should we by duty earn a humble wage and live a humble life or do you think it is ok to live a lavish life yet still call yourself an Anarchist/Marxists etc.

I presume you are talking as in the current political/economic climate? Hm, good question indeed.

Personally I don't share the views that one should be a coal miner, factory worker (or similar socialist imagery) in order to be real Anarchist/Marxists.
I believe that the most important part is to (at least try) respect other working men and women, regardless of the title you hold.

In certain conditions, I'd say go as far as you can. Best choice would be to pursue a job where you can get educated all the time, a job where you'll be able to evaluate your knowledge of socialism against your knowledge of capitalism.
University professor, let's say in the field of politics or history. Such job would force you to learn :thumbup1:

If not the science department, I'd say economics. Yep, economics. What is the better way to crush the faulty system then from the inside?
Entrepreneurship, managerial positions, even politics.
These are all good "mole" areas.
Besides, you will see first hand if you INDEED are a true socialist.
It does makes some sense right ? :p
You start getting large pay checks and in the process monitor yourself how the money is (or not) slowly corrupting your mortal soul :lol:

If you succeed and openly discard your luxury, then you indeed are a true socialist and the chances are high that you'll be in the front row when revolution strikes :thumbup:

[Nils T.]

What is the better way to crush the faulty system then from the inside?Crush it from the outside, probably.

Beware if you try entryism, no one is incorruptible. Be marxist on this point and don't forget that consciousness depends also on one's living conditions.

______________
I was lost in a valley of pleasure
I was lost in the infinite sea
I was lost, and measure for measure,
Love spewed from the heart of me
I was lost, and the cost,
And the cost didn't matter to me
I was lost, and the cost was to be outside society

[Poison]

Humble wages? No, how can you assist others when you can barely keep yourself going?
However, lavish wages? If you're keeping those wages for yourself, or considering it, something's wrong there.

If you're considering lavish wages, why ask others? Stick to your own principles.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Humble wages? No, how can you assist others when you can barely keep yourself going?
However, lavish wages? If you're keeping those wages for yourself, or considering it, something's wrong there.

If you're considering lavish wages, why ask others? Stick to your own principles.

No my principle is more towards the first option. Power and money can both be corrupting. I don't want to take the risk.

[Invincible Summer]

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to have a decent living - just because you're a Communist doesn't mean that you have to work in a factory your whole life.

At the same time, I wouldn't go and inherit a 10 acre estate with horses and play polo all day either... not because it's hypocritical or anything (so long as you don't hire servants which would be impossible for an estate of that size, but I digress...) but rather that it just feels too bourgeois.

Also, just because all jobs involve capitalist exploitation and stuff doesn't mean you're not allowed to find a job that you somewhat enjoy (so long as it isn't anti-working class). Just keep the primary goal in mind - to smash capitalism in the face.

[Poison]

Actually...become a Republican and advocate a free market with a smile and a wink. That'll help speed things up. ;)

[Stranger Than Paradise]

Actually...become a Republican and advocate a free market with a smile and a wink. That'll help speed things up. ;)

Yeah that'd be fine but if you had all that power you could easily become corrupted.

[Bitter Ashes]

If you're getting a good wage, then that's money taken away from the bourgeois that you can redistribute as you see fit. Cap your personal allowance at that of an average worker and donate whatever's left over, or use it in other ways towards improving workers' lives. No point in accepting a lack of power over the bourgeois if you can avoid it.

[Poison]

Yeah that'd be fine but if you had all that power you could easily become corrupted.

I'm actually considering signing up to be a Republican, just to fuck with their heads. :]

[Bitter Ashes]

I'm actually considering signing up to be a Republican, just to fuck with their heads. :]
So... giving your name and address to a bunch of people who are there to support the bourgeois. I think you might regret giving them that additional power over yourself.
I must say it does sound like fun though! ^^

[brigadista]

something useful because if everything was destroyed tommorrow its plumbers , carpenters, etc who will have the most useful skills

[Pogue]

Anything beneficial to society that doesn't involve restricting peoples freedoms or exploiting labour. I want to be a social worker.

[brigadista]

ah a social po po...

[Pogue]

ah a social po po...

lol wut

[Pogue]

If you're getting a good wage, then that's money taken away from the bourgeois that you can redistribute as you see fit. Cap your personal allowance at that of an average worker and donate whatever's left over, or use it in other ways towards improving workers' lives. No point in accepting a lack of power over the bourgeois if you can avoid it.

Can you honestly say you'd do that?

[brigadista]

being a social worker is being a social police.they have extensive legal powers - to take children away from their parents and assist in compulsory detention of mentally ill people and currently to refuse help to destitute ill asylum seekers and their children. .

However these days its mainly just being a broker for private care agencies to contract out "care". for those they actually accept to provide care for.

[Pogue]

being a social worker is being a social police.they have extensive legal powers - to take children away from their parents and assist in compulsory detention of mentally ill people and currently to refuse help to destitute ill asylum seekers and their children. .

However these days its mainly just being a broker for private care agencies to contract out "care". for those they actually accept to provide care for.

Might I ask what country it is you live in and have experienced this?

Have you done the job?

[brigadista]

uk -
no but i deal with their incompetence everyday and theri bourgeois approach to poor people [part of the training]though - if you really have good intentions - don't follow the road to hell and be a social worker -get a job with a young offenders team - now they really do good effective work

[Bitter Ashes]

Can you honestly say you'd do that?
Hmmm. I'd hope I would. I guess I dont know for sure. Never had a high paying job before.

[Pogue]

uk -
no but i deal with their incompetence everyday and theri bourgeois approach to poor people [part of the training]though - if you really have good intentions - don't follow the road to hell and be a social worker -get a job with a young offenders team - now they really do good effective work

Well you have certianly opened my eyes. I never thought of it that way. I just thought about, well, helping people. Tryng to solve the problems of people who are socially excluded, counselling and that sort of thing.

[brigadista]

by the way HVLS I was not being disrespectful to you personally there i just see social work fuck ups all the time and it makes me really angry- you must of course follow your own road ....

[Pogue]

uk -
no but i deal with their incompetence everyday and theri bourgeois approach to poor people [part of the training]though - if you really have good intentions - don't follow the road to hell and be a social worker -get a job with a young offenders team - now they really do good effective work

What job do you do?

[brigadista]

that would be telling...!!
if you are a university student why not try being a prison visitor? at the moment there are quite a few university prison visitor groups who visit asylum seekers who are detained - they do a really good job

[Pogue]

that would be telling...!!
if you are a university student why not try being a prison visitor? at the moment there are quite a few university prison visitor groups who visit asylum seekers who are detained - they do a really good job

I'm not at university but I'm looking into going. I want to do something do with dealing with social issues, such as young offendors, etc, etc. I considered social work until just now I started reading about the fucked up shit that goes with it.

[brigadista]

good luck with it HVLS!!

[Pogue]

good luck with it HVLS!!

That doesn't help. You've basically just left me wondering what the fuck I'm going to do, now that the one job I thought looked good has just been exposed to me as one of the most oppressive. This is fucking annoying, I genuinely can't find a single fucking job thats appealing to me now.

[brigadista]

yeah its a struggle - you may have to try a few things before you find one you like - how about paramedic?on the ambulances?

[Pogue]

I considered that but as I've mentioned before I don't know how I'd respond if I had to treat a fascist or so.

[brigadista]

keep looking -

[BlackCapital]

uk -
no but i deal with their incompetence everyday and theri bourgeois approach to poor people [part of the training]though - if you really have good intentions - don't follow the road to hell and be a social worker -get a job with a young offenders team - now they really do good effective work

It sounds like you have had a bad experience which social workers, and of course their practices are not perfect, but I strongly disagree that becoming a social worker is somehow unethical or at odds with your ideology.

My mom is leftist leaning and was a social worker for many years in the US, and certainly does not have a bourgeois approach to the poor. She mainly dealt with mentally ill people who were seriously endangering the health of their kids and in some cases purposefully abusing them.

It's definitely not an easy job and can be dangerous, but in my opinion and everything she has told me about her experience, there should be no ethical clash at all. I don't think ensuring that children who are living with unable or dangerous parents find safe homes is bourgeois.

[Os Cangaceiros]

In the United States, I'd recommend someone searching for a job look into a trade. Trades like electrical work and welding provide great hands-on work that never really goes out of demand, plus the pay is actually fairly good, at least that's the case in Alaska. (I'm a welder.)

When the natural gas pipeline gets built (which is going to happen soon) it's going to be a goldmine for those with the skills...welders are going to be looking at six digits a year.

[black magick hustla]

people should work whatever hella they want except if the work is absolutely disgusting. stop thinking about becoming the next hero of the proletariat

[Absolut]

Im going for professional revolutionary.

[JohannGE]

I have to put in a word for social workers after some of the comments above.

Obviously they do make mistakes and are sometimes in the unfortunate position of being used by the state to do their dirty work. However, they often work with those who would not recieve support or assistance from anywhere else. They do this under incredible pressure, with very limited resources and for a poor wage. A far from perfect situation but one that would leave many vulnerable and needy people in a far worse situation if they were not there.

The problem is the system, not the social workers. If all the "good" ones were to give up, those who need their services would be in a far worse crisis. I would never activly recomend someone to become a social worker due to the many pressures involved, I would always respect anyone brave enough to do so though.

No profesional axe to grind here and I have myself experienced a horror story or two about the inadequacies of the service. Depite that I can see no suitable alternative on offer for the often desperate people who they seek to help.

[brigadista]

I have to put in a word for social workers after some of the comments above.

Obviously they do make mistakes and are sometimes in the unfortunate position of being used by the state to do their dirty work. However, they often work with those who would not recieve support or assistance from anywhere else. They do this under incredible pressure, with very limited resources and for a poor wage. A far from perfect situation but one that would leave many vulnerable and needy people in a far worse situation if they were not there.

The problem is the system, not the social workers. If all the "good" ones were to give up, those who need their services would be in a far worse crisis. I would never activly recomend someone to become a social worker due to the many pressures involved, I would always respect anyone brave enough to do so though.

No profesional axe to grind here and I have myself experienced a horror story or to about the inadequacies of the service. Depite that I can see no suitable alternative on offer for the often desperate people who they seek to help.

They are social police pure and simple with huge legal powers - who are they policing? The poor working class - how are they policing them? According to bourgeois sociological theory which individualises problems and does not set them within a class perspective within capitalism..

“good” social workers are tied by local authority budget cuts and national legislation having to deprive the most needy of help [eg: destitute asylum seekers and their children]also within budgets that do not prioritise the needs of the people SWs are supposed to assist-

By the way rich people regularly abuse their children but the legal might of the state is not brought down on them to take their kids into care-

many "vulnerable and needy people" these days are not provided with help by the social services because legislation has excluded them - any good individual social workers have left ...

[jake williams]

Im going for professional revolutionary.
Professional revolutionary. Actually, Professional Revolutionary, capital-P capital-R. It's the only way to do it.

[brigadista]

i did not have "a bad experience " with social workers - i regualry see what they do through my employment and the discussion i was having was with reference to social services in the uk . I cannot comment on social services in the US.

[brigadista]

check out --

Poverty, Welfare and the Disciplinary State, Chris Jones and Tony Novak (1999) Routledge, London. This is a well-documented, radical critique of the growing authoritarianism of social policy in the last two decades. It powerfully argues that this has been driven by the needs of advanced capitalism and has been accompanied by an ideological assault on the poor. By demonstrating that inequality of income and wealth has, in fact, increased during this period it discredits all the politicians who have argued that increased general wealth would automatically benefit the poor. This book shows that we are now at a crucial fault-line in society where social values and market forces collide. Social workers should read this book to understand how their well-intentioned efforts have been used in the policing of the so-called "underclass".

[Os Cangaceiros]

Professional revolutionary. Actually, Professional Revolutionary, capital-P capital-R. It's the only way to do it.

That would look good on a business card.

[JohannGE]

any good individual social workers have left ...

I know for a fact that is not true.

As for the rest I repeat:-

"Depite that I can see no suitable alternative on offer for the often desperate people who they seek to help."

[rednordman]

uk -
no but i deal with their incompetence everyday and theri bourgeois approach to poor people [part of the training]though - if you really have good intentions - don't follow the road to hell and be a social worker -get a job with a young offenders team - now they really do good effective workTrust me its actually the same everywhere. My brother has worked in mental home and he is always moaning about not having enough information on his clients and how legislation is a injustice of a hinderance and gets in the way. They all sound like control freaks, which is strange as you would thing to have a job like that you should show genuine compassion and not control. And the people who i have met (my brother included) all have zero sympathy for the clients, which i find disturbing. So you where spot on about them getting taught a bourgeois approach. And guess what?...their attitude stinks.

[The Intransigent Faction]

I'd just like a job that means a good enough wage to live modestly while helping others.
Obviously there are some jobs in capitalist countries that it would be odd to do as a Communist.

None of us here will become the next Rockefeller or Bill Gates, though.
The whole "You use a computer made by capitalist, you hypocrite!" mantra is ridiculous, but certainly serious revolutionaries must help the struggling workers as much as possible, and not just financially anyway (supporting local unions/strikes, and other things probably mentioned on the "DIY" board here).

[pastradamus]

Working for and within a trade union for the benefit of your fellow worker is a job I had and I think its the best job a revolutionary could be.

[*PRC*Kensei]

If you want to organize / change something (but well this is about anarchists so maby nvrm...) for the good, the best job is the one that gives you the most power to make a change.

Empowerment > humbleness.

[Stranger Than Paradise]

So what job would you recommend which gave you empowerment Kensei?

[Unclebananahead]

I'm a registered republican, if you can believe that! I decided that it would be fun to monkey with their primaries and skew the results. As for a job, that's a good question. As a member of the numerous unemployed, I need to figure that out, and somewhat quickly. Hopefully I can get something decent, but time will tell.