Converting a car engine to a generator

[Bitter Ashes]

I'm not very well versed in engineering, but I was wondering what the practicalities of this would be?
Seeing as though the engine wouldnt actualy be driving a car around on the roads, I thought that as a loophole, you could power it with red-desiel.
Would it actualy be cheaper than me buying electricity from the electric company? I've also heard I could sell the surplus when I'm not using it, back to the national grid.
I figured it'd be a good way of having my energy prices dictated by the whims of the electric company.
I know that a car engine charges the battery, but to run a house off it would need more than a single battery, so is it possible to just turn the whole power of the engine to generating power instead?
I'm really a newb with engineering :blushing:

[Lynx]

The alternator on your car is just a small, inefficient generator. To install a better generator, you'd need more room, and you'd probably want to connect it where the transmission is connected or in place of a wheel. You would want to run the engine at its optimal speed (highest efficiency) and attach a generator with a power rating just above the engine output at that speed. I don't think it would be worth it.
It also wouldn't be considered clean (or renewable) energy, so I doubt you'd be allowed to sell it to the electric grid.
Oh, and you can't run a gasoline engine on diesel, not without a conversion. I don't know if conversion is even possible! Or do you mean its a diesel engine, but you want to run it on heating oil?

[Bitter Ashes]

Oh okay :(
So, would it be possible to get hold of a number of those alternators and run them all on a belt or something?
I was kinda thinking of seeing if I could get hold of some old second hand engine parts from write offs and seeing what I can make from it without it blowing up in my face.
So, like one deisel engine and instead of the bits where it's connected to the wheels, could connect it to like a belt full of these alternators? Would that work?

[Lynx]

Used alternators aren't exactly cheap from my experience. Hooking bunches of them up would require electronics like an inverter. A car alternator has rectifiers built into it so it will output DC to charge the battery, an inverter is needed to convert DC to AC. Rectifiers and inverters are sources of additional energy loss :(

[Bitter Ashes]

Ah. Just trying to see what I can do with commonly available materials

[Lynx]

If you have a diesel engine it can be made to run on different kinds of fuel, even vegetable oil.

Electricity is difficult to store. Other ways of storing energy include rubber bands, springs, compressed air, enclosed flywheels, or water pumped to a higher storage area.

I once read about an airplane that was driven by the energy stored in a rubber band. A really quiet way to fly :)

[Bitter Ashes]

mmmm, so the energy source is sorted (fuel), the way to convert that into mechanical energy is there (the engine). It's the bit about converting that mechanical energy into electrical energy that's stumping me. I was thinking to myself that this would be really easy, like connecting one of those lights to your bike that is powered by the wheels.:crying:

[Lynx]

Engines convert chemical energy into mechanical energy, but around 2/3 of it is wasted as heat. A fuel cell can convert chemical energy into electricity, somewhat more efficiently.
Batteries are related to fuel cells, they store electrical energy as chemical energy. Capacitors store electricity as an electrostatic charge.

The concept of generating electricity from mechanical energy is simple, like with the small dynamo connected to a bicycle tire. It's just that the implementation becomes more complex when larger amounts of power are generated.
A typical gas powered generator can deliver 5000 watts with a 9-10 horsepower engine. If you've ever seen one, you can see the size of the engine and the generator. Car engines have a lot more horsepower, consequently you need a larger generator to take advantage of the power that's available.

This link might help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generator_(device)
and to take one example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycles
Another problem with engines as generators is they're noisy.

[Bitter Ashes]

I'm really going to have to put more thought into this I think.

I guess I'd get the blonde of the month award for this, but seeing as though a generator is just magnets and coils of wire, why is the size limited? I mean, would it be possible for me to spend a weekend wrapping wire around, say, a carpet tube and then just putting a really big magnet in the middle and having that connected to a rod from the engine to make it spin? Just in case I havent made enough of a total fool of myself yet, would it be possible to replace the magnet at the centre with an electromagnet, so the only costs would be more coils of wire? I wouldnt be suprised if I was told that it would cost more in power to keep the electromagnet going than what the generator could actualy produce though knowing my luck! :P

It would be noisy, yes. Bad for the enviroment too. At least it would only be running to power a worker's home (mine!) rather than lining the bourgeoises pockets too much in the process. I'm also thinking of that thing in Indonesia with the factory occupation and how the electric company tried to cut the factory off and how handy it was for those workers to have a backup, so having a method of building cheap generators would certainly be helpful for similar situations anywhere.

I also found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine-generator
"Diesel engines in the UK run on red diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_diesel) and rotate at 1500 or 3000 rpm. This produces power at a frequency of 50 Hz, which is the frequency used in the UK"

Kinda confirmed my hopes about running it off red diesel! Take that oil company monoply of energy prices and HM Revenues and Customs!!! ^^

[Lynx]

I'm really going to have to put more thought into this I think.

I guess I'd get the blonde of the month award for this, but seeing as though a generator is just magnets and coils of wire, why is the size limited? I mean, would it be possible for me to spend a weekend wrapping wire around, say, a carpet tube and then just putting a really big magnet in the middle and having that connected to a rod from the engine to make it spin? Just in case I havent made enough of a total fool of myself yet, would it be possible to replace the magnet at the centre with an electromagnet, so the only costs would be more coils of wire? I wouldnt be suprised if I was told that it would cost more in power to keep the electromagnet going than what the generator could actualy produce though knowing my luck! :P
I imagine that would be quite a challenge. I can't say, I'm no good building things. You can experiment (laminated copper wire is not as expensive as it once was). The magnet or electromagnet will want to touch the windings and vice versa, requiring that all parts of a generator be securely attached to a frame or chassis.

It would be noisy, yes. Bad for the enviroment too. At least it would only be running to power a worker's home (mine!) rather than lining the bourgeoises pockets too much in the process. I'm also thinking of that thing in Indonesia with the factory occupation and how the electric company tried to cut the factory off and how handy it was for those workers to have a backup, so having a method of building cheap generators would certainly be helpful for similar situations anywhere.
Autonomous power sources are like a dream come true. I much prefer alternatives such as windmills or small turbines installed in a stream. But if those are not available, heat engines might be the only option.

I also found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine-generator
"Diesel engines in the UK run on red diesel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_diesel) and rotate at 1500 or 3000 rpm. This produces power at a frequency of 50 Hz, which is the frequency used in the UK"

Kinda confirmed my hopes about running it off red diesel! Take that oil company monoply of energy prices and HM Revenues and Customs!!! ^^
These types of generators are common in Canada, although to my knowledge they mostly have gasoline engines.
You can calculate how much it costs to fill the tank with red diesel and how much electricity a full tank will produce. Then compare it with the cost of electricity from the grid. In Nova Scotia, its about 11.9 cents / Kwh

[Bitter Ashes]

Well, I'm going to look into seeing if I can build working generator first once I'm sure that much can be done, I'll get hold of a £50 deisel car than will probably fail its MOT and a hacksaw and see if I can get the engine out and onto a sturdy cart or something and into my back garden.
Guess I'm just going to have to experiment. Why do I get the feeling that I'm going to lose fingers? :crying:

edit: Actualy, I've just been advised that car engines are really really heavy and I probably wont be able to lift it, so I might try with a little motorbike, or even lawnmower engine for the prototype

[Bitter Ashes]

Oh and I'm also told that if there's too much electric generated that it may blow up whatever I've got connected to it. Is there any way that I can limit the power so any excess isnt thrown through whatever I've got connected up? Also how do I measure how much electricity it's generating?

[bushratkizzy]

any way to use my diesel truck to make electricity? Have inverter/chrger 16 x 6v deep cycle batteries...solar, wind, etc. backup for winter as low as -40F for about a week per yr. otherwise on snowy days -20F average. truck starts when really cold whereas gas honda gen's won't and even if they do at -10F do not always want to keep going. Some expense would be expected, new mitsubishi diesel gen. set approx 15,000$$$

[pastradamus]

I'm not very well versed in engineering, but I was wondering what the practicalities of this would be?
Seeing as though the engine wouldnt actualy be driving a car around on the roads, I thought that as a loophole, you could power it with red-desiel.
Would it actualy be cheaper than me buying electricity from the electric company? I've also heard I could sell the surplus when I'm not using it, back to the national grid.

No. Firstly, If a car Engine is not running than the battery will only usually operate for about 1 hour (I know this is not your question but im just getting it out there :)). I once ran a car on red diesel (or green Diesel as we call it here, due to a green dye instead of a red one). I had an old diesel Corolla and got hold of a few gallons of green diesel. Now firstly, using this diesel is illegal as its tax free for agricultural machinery and secondly its frequently checked by the customs on the roadside using a dipping rod. The way to get away with this involves removing the dye from the diesel itself to create "white diesel". This is how you remove that dye:

1: Get a wide, strong plastic pipe.
2: Place a sibh at the end of this pipe (make sure its a fine sibh.
3 Fill this Sibh with Cat litter (seriously)
4: pour the Green/red Diesel down the pipe and the cat litter will remove the dye from the diesel.

I Often hear about people stuffing a pipe with bread and trying to remove the dye that way, but its only partly successfull and not worth the risk.



I figured it'd be a good way of having my energy prices dictated by the whims of the electric company.
I know that a car engine charges the battery, but to run a house off it would need more than a single battery, so is it possible to just turn the whole power of the engine to generating power instead?
I'm really a newb with engineering :blushing:

Seriously though, its simply not worth it. Its cheaper to buy electricity from the government than to generate power using diesel. Diesel is always expensive, beit agricultural or regular stuff. Its just impractical.

[pastradamus]

Oh and I'm also told that if there's too much electric generated that it may blow up whatever I've got connected to it. Is there any way that I can limit the power so any excess isnt thrown through whatever I've got connected up? Also how do I measure how much electricity it's generating?

In a Car's engine electricity is controlled by an ECU or a distributor coil in an old vehicle. But mainly electricity is stored in a system of Capacitors and Relays (which dont actually store but slow down the current to controlable levels).

Though once again I must say, This is a huge waste of time, inefficient, noisey and is ultimately going to break your heart. If this was a good idea we'd all be doing it. Also May I say forget about buying alternators or indeed looping them as they are very expensive, time wasting and even if you successfully loop alternators to get the power you want - the power still has to come from somewhere - the battery. Even if the engine is running the battery is in danger of overheating and dont listen to anyone who suggests looping batteries to compensate for this as its another hazard to the Voltage of the vehicle and again if your using a modern engine you'll need to reprogramme the ECU if you want to run a belt driven mechanism (which is Woefully painfull to your pocket).

The Modern Combustion or Rotary engine is Notoriously expensive to run, even if your using Vegetable oil or Red Diesel as a fuel.

If you want a clean, efficient, quiet, cost effective (in the long run) form of energy in you household I suggest Installing wind turbines (providing you have the room and also Solar panels are completely unreliable and crap). Look into government incentives (usually tax free to buy) and any surplus energy can be sold back to the national grid. But again, you need the room and its initially going to hurt your wallet.

...I know im going on a bit now, but you can take practical steps to reduce your electricity bill without spending a penny. For example in my apartment I saved a good bit of money by simply taking the plug out of the sockets at night and taking 5 minute showers and Even stupid things like when your boiling the kettle only put in the amount of water you need.

If its a project your looking for on the other hand than go out there, buy that crappy old car and do it up! Its rewarding and you can use cheap parts from the scrap yard to do this! I once purchased an old Mark II Escort which was crashed for €100 and myself and a few of my friends worked on it, fixed it and we made €8000 from its sale with €1,500 as our expense for parts such as new seats, dashboard, wing, welding equipment (rentals), hoses, flywheels and new rear shocks etc...