BNP cop from merseyside sacked!

[Dr Mindbender]

:lol: Great development.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5izOTSusqI6r6r6Vt4ZKp4_9ExJiQ

[Pogue]

cool

[JohannGE]

Who would have thought it... a racist bigot in the police force. :)

[LOLseph Stalin]

Haha! BNP fails...again! :laugh:

[Killfacer]

good to know.

[Melbourne Lefty]

While its good that the BNP is being swept under the rug again, does anyone else feel uneasy about the precedent?

Someone being fired for belonging to a political party? When the panel that investigated him could find no evidence of racist conduct?

Just shoot me down if im wrong, but is this what we want?:confused:

[Sasha]

maybe, although i dont think we have too fear that soon they will start firing all the revolutionairy leftists in the police force :D

[OneNamedNameLess]

While its good that the BNP is being swept under the rug again, does anyone else feel uneasy about the precedent?

Someone being fired for belonging to a political party? When the panel that investigated him could find no evidence of racist conduct?

Just shoot me down if im wrong, but is this what we want?:confused:

These are exactly the feelings I have had recently. As much as I abhor the BNP this makes me feel uneasy about the state and other institutions. Not that I have any trust in the police force but still.

At the minute the BNP have a hard time, but in the future you never know. The BNP are an approved political party all the same.

[OneNamedNameLess]

To add to this, if the story has any validity then it's alarming to see BNP members in the police force. No matter how we feel about the police they are expected to protect society's citizens, not detest a fraction of them.

[h0m0revolutionary]

While its good that the BNP is being swept under the rug again, does anyone else feel uneasy about the precedent?

Someone being fired for belonging to a political party? When the panel that investigated him could find no evidence of racist conduct?

Just shoot me down if im wrong, but is this what we want?:confused:

I appreciate the sentiment, but this guy, and individuals like him aren't sacked for being 'extremist', if they were then your concerns would be alot more valid. They were sacked because in the eyes of many in their profession, and I imagine all of us here, their views impede their ability to do their job impartially.

If they were to loose their jobs because their views are seen as 'outside' of bourgious respectability then we'd have something to worry about ourselves, but this parasite lost his job because in his job he habitually comes accross scenarios where he *can* even if he *has not* discrimminate against people based upon their race- his fascist views make it clear he does engage in discrimmination.

I don't give a shit about fascists loosing their jobs, infact I tihnk the only criticism we should have of this should be aimed at those professions that do not have a policy of expulsion of fascists - especially the National Health Service.

We wouldsn't put up with them in ours unions, our streets, our communities. But for some reason you'd protect them in their jobs?? They wouldn't grant us the same sympathy. Fuck them.

[JohannGE]

h0m0revolutionary sums up my own view above.

I would add that not only did he hold views incompatiable with the job, which may have been acceptable had he kept them to himself, but by being a member of the party he supported their campaign to have his predjudice enshrined in law.

I suspect that it may be eaqualy incompatiable to have a member of the police force who is activley engaged in working for a revolution.

[brigadista]

To add to this, if the story has any validity then it's alarming to see BNP members in the police force. No matter how we feel about the police they are expected to protect society's citizens, not detest a fraction of them.

it is not a requirement for racist police to be BNP members...

[Dr Mindbender]

While its good that the BNP is being swept under the rug again, does anyone else feel uneasy about the precedent?

Someone being fired for belonging to a political party? When the panel that investigated him could find no evidence of racist conduct?

Just shoot me down if im wrong, but is this what we want?:confused:

I would rather the BNP members were sacked than allow them to remain in the police and have the potential to harass and hurt minority communities.

While i'd rather they were ousted by their colleagues than have to be pulled out by police top brass the fact that theyre getting exposed is at least a positive in my view.

[Melbourne Lefty]

I would rather the BNP members were sacked than allow them to remain in the police and have the potential to harass and hurt minority communities.


Yup, the idea of cops with the power of the state who are also BNP members policing minority areas is kinda frightening.

Personally I feel that stuff like this may be needed, it may be 100% needed to prevent a culture of BNPness in the police.

But it does leave a bad taste in the mouth I must admit, just because something SHOULD happen doesnt mean it feels right.

[Holden Caulfield]

But it does leave a bad taste in the mouth I must admit, just because something SHOULD happen doesnt mean it feels right.
why? you are better than a brainless libertarian. Dont look at this as a political issue, look at it how it is. If a non-affiliated person started to say whites deserve better treatment than non-whites due to their 'birth-right' and that immigrants were killing our country that person should not be allowed to hold a position of power, authority or judgement in society.

[bcbm]

I would rather the BNP members were sacked than allow them to remain in the police and have the potential to harass and hurt minority communities.

ACAB, whether they're in a racist party or not.

[Devrim]

Do people think that by removing every, and I can't imagine that there are actually that many of them, BNP member from the police, it would cease to be a racist institution?

Devrim

[Holden Caulfield]

Do people think that by removing every, and I can't imagine that there are actually that many of them, BNP member from the police, it would cease to be a racist institution?

Devrim
No, most tools of the state will have rascism in them due to their role and their very existence, however having a individual who actively seeks an all white nation and 2nd class citizenship for ethnic minorities as an authority figure is plain wrong. Try to reattach yourself to reality here.


ACAB, whether they're in a racist party or not.
very helpful contribution, just like up north when the pits closed and alot of miners became prision guards and went from being darlings of the left fighting Thatcher, to 'pigs'.

Mosts cops are bastards, but that is because of the system not because they are evil people, they are wage slaves just like everybody else.

[Batman]

they are wage slaves just like everybody else.

Workers in uniform, eh?

[Holden Caulfield]

Workers in uniform, eh?

Obviously the police are different so i would use such a simplistic line (even if my party does) but 'ACAB' is childish lacks any analysis, and isn't based on any sort of material argument at all.

Last time i checked though the working classes weren't in a position to pick and chose what jobs they wanted, but had to sell their labour so that they can eat and feed their families.

[Devrim]

No, most tools of the state will have rascism in them due to their role and their very existence, however having a individual who actively seeks an all white nation and 2nd class citizenship for ethnic minorities as an authority figure is plain wrong. Try to reattach yourself to reality here.

I think I am attached to reality. What I am saying is that removing a member of one particular party won't change the racist nature of the police. I think anyone with any attachment to reality must realise that that was true. Do you think, for example, that the all of the policemen involved in the Stephen Lawrence affair were members of fascist parties? Or even any of them?

Really, it is not going to change the nature of the police in anyway.

Devrim

[Holden Caulfield]

I think I am attached to reality. What I am saying is that removing a member of one particular party won't change the racist nature of the police. I think anyone with any attachment to reality must realise that that was true. Do you think, for example, that the all of the policemen involved in the Stephen Lawrence affair were members of fascist parties? Or even any of them?

I said myself its got nothing to do with what party one may or may not belong to. Its about if anybody said openly "I think whites should be given priority over all other 'alien' races", which being a member of the BNP (for the vast majority of members I would assume) implies.

They should not be teachers, social workers, civil servants, coppers. No position of authority, respect or trust in society should be given to those who are openly racist.

[JohannGE]

Really, it is not going to change the nature of the police in anyway.

Devrim

Perhaps not, especialy in the light of "institutionalised racism" etc, but surely that is not a reason to allow those with a declared acceptance of racial discrimination to remain.

[nuisance]

We wouldsn't put up with them in ours unions, our streets, our communities. But for some reason you'd protect them in their jobs?? They wouldn't grant us the same sympathy. Fuck them.
The point is that opposing fascists in our streets and communities, and to a lesser extent the unions, is upon our own terms as working class people. However, the sacking of the BNP member further highlights the extents to how expendable workers can be to the employers, which is not a good sign for anyone, let alone people whom actively oppose the status quo.
Of course I think it's right for a bigot to be expelled from the police force, but what we have to learn from is that conflicting opinions can cause such difficulties.

[Devrim]

Perhaps not, especialy in the light of "institutionalised racism" etc, but surely that is not a reason to allow those with a declared acceptance of racial discrimination to remain.

I don't run the police force though do I. Actually, I am pretty indifferent to the whole affair. I am certainly not crying about him losing his job.

'Organise!' makes a good point though:


The point is that opposing fascists in our streets and communities, and to a lesser extent the unions, is upon our own terms as working class people. However, the sacking of the BNP member further highlights the extents to how expendable workers can be to the employers, which is not a good sign for anyone, let alone people whom actively oppose the status quo.

If it were the case of a workers being sacked from a school for being a member of a political party, I would be dead against it. There is a huge difference between workers refusing to work with a racist, and workers being sacked for holding political beliefs.

Devrim

[JohannGE]

I don't run the police force though do I. Actually, I am pretty indifferent to the whole affair. I am certainly not crying about him losing his job.

I didn't mean to suggest you were supporting his being allowed to remain, sorry if it seemed that way. I was saying that irrespective of his dissmissal changing the nature of the police or not, it had to be done.

I agree that 'Organise!' does make a good point but would again suggest that irrespective of that good point, an known, active, racist should not be allowed to remain in the police force.


There is a huge difference between workers refusing to work with a racist, and workers being sacked for holding political beliefs.Devrim

I think he was dissmissed because his political opinions were incompatiable with a role in the police, not specificaly for holding those political opinions. (sounds a bit ambiguous, hope you see what I mean)

[Bitter Ashes]

The guy claims that he's not a member of the BNP too. His name is on the list though. THe story he's giving is that somebody signed him up without his consent.
To further muddy the waters, the BNP said that it would deny that anyone on the list was a member if requested, so it's not as if the police can ask them if he's a member either.
The police force forbids membership to the BNP and while I think that's a really good idea, there's no way to prove if anyone is really a member of the BNP or not, based on this evidence. For all we know, this guy could actualy be telling the truth and this is just the Police trying to find ways to sack thier staff, on flimsy evidence, just like all the employers right now.
I would expect the police to conduct a proper investigation into whether he really was a member or not and thier failing to do so is disturbing in my books.
It's his word against thiers to be honest..

[JohannGE]

The guy claims that he's not a member of the BNP too. His name is on the list though. THe story he's giving is that somebody signed him up without his consent.
To further muddy the waters, the BNP said that it would deny that anyone on the list was a member if requested, so it's not as if the police can ask them if he's a member either.

Do you have any reference to the bnp saying they would deny an individuals membership if asked? Not doubting you or the fact but it would be very useful.


I would expect the police to conduct a proper investigation into whether he really was a member or not and thier failing to do so is disturbing in my books.
It's his word against thiers to be honest..

I wouldn't want to see dismisals on flimsy evidence even though I tend to welcome the dismissal in this case. I see the danger of setting a bad precedent and agree there should have been a proper investigation.

[Bitter Ashes]

Do you have any reference to the bnp saying they would deny an individuals membership if asked? Not doubting you or the fact but it would be very useful.
No worries. Here you go :) This is from the BNP's "legal secretary"'s blog.

http://leejohnbarnes.blogspot.com/2008/11/bnp-fake-membership-list-issues.html
"For those people who have been named on the list all you need to do is deny you are a member if asked. ... we will confirm that you are not a member if you ask us ... If required write to the BNP and we will confirm that you are not a BNP member."

Talk about perverting the course of justice huh? :mad:

[YKTMX]

The fact that he was a member but that this didn't prevent him from becoming a prominent policeman tells us something. Still, good to see him fired.

[Hit The North]

Last time i checked though the working classes weren't in a position to pick and chose what jobs they wanted, but had to sell their labour so that they can eat and feed their families.

*sniffs* I can smell moralism.

[Holden Caulfield]

*sniffs* I can smell moralism.

you disagree with my point?

[Hit The North]

That we can excuse workers any actions because they're wage slaves inside a rotten system?

Yes, I disagree. I know people who would rather be on the breadline than become a copper.

[Holden Caulfield]

That we can excuse workers any actions because they're wage slaves inside a rotten system?

Yes, I disagree. I know people who would rather be on the breadline than become a copper.

i know people who would rather live in a minging squat than a nice warm house, it doesnt mean anybody else does.

[Bitter Ashes]

Both very valid points there from Apathy Maybe and Bob the Builder imo.
Whether the constable in question is actualy BNP scum or not is still in question. ANYONE who can be confirmed to be in support of the BNP is a dangerous member of our societies. Yes, there's power with bieng in the police, but surely, as revolutionaries, we also know that those who are not have the potential to be even more powerful. Whether that power is used for good or ill is down to motivations.
There will be facists in every sector of the workforce and bourgeois and these people need identifying and where it's not possible to help them see the failed logic (I do believe that communism has the potential to be "sold" to anyone who is discontent), we must prevent them from harming others. The Police Force's policy on sacking staff who fall into this category is one method of doing this.

[Hit The North]

i know people who would rather live in a minging squat than a nice warm house, it doesnt mean anybody else does.

Yeah, intelligent in-put, darling. :rolleyes:

[nuisance]

Yeah, intelligent in-put, darling. :rolleyes:
It is as intelligent as the point Holden was replying to.
:rolleyes:

[Hit The North]

It is as intelligent as the point Holden was replying to.
:rolleyes:

Really? So you also believe that workers who join the police can be excused on the basis of some spurious "economic compulsion" factor?

On that basis we could justify scabbing.

[bcbm]

very helpful contribution

I do my best.


just like up north when the pits closed and alot of miners became prision guards and went from being darlings of the left fighting Thatcher, to 'pigs'.Whatever functional role the police have, in a class society their primary purpose is to protect the interests of the ruling class. This extends to every realm of their activity and so it is the institutional role of the police to be bastards, just as it is the institutional role of prison guards to be bastards. The only time when such bastards are not our enemy is when they are willing to switch and fight for us instead of for the bosses, ie going against their institutional role and accepting their class role.


Mosts cops are bastards, but that is because of the system not because they are evil people, they are wage slaves just like everybody else.I never said they were evil people, I said all cops are bastards. As I said, it is their institutional role to be bastards. That has nothing to do with them as individuals. I've had some wonderful arresting officers and some charming FBI agents take my picture while I was handcuffed and naked and I've even cracked a few jokes with the SWAT team that woke me up with a machine gun in my face, but what they were doing while being nice as individuals was performing their institutional roles as bastards. If they'd have not arrested me or fucked up my fingerprints with a wink or fucked up the photographs as they took them or turned those machine guns against the people who told them to point them at us (betray their institutional position for a class position, that is), then I might think otherwise, but not one fucking moment sooner.