Hoods soon to be banned in greece

[Black Sheep]

Posted: March 17, 2009 at 15:57 PM EST (20:57 PM GMT)
Athens - The Greek government is considering punishing demonstrators who wear hoods or masks as part of its effort to battle the ongoing wave of violence that has plagued the country since the police shooting of a teenager in December, officials said Tuesday. "The Greek citizen does not hide and is not afraid of showing his face, especially when he is protesting," said Justice Minister Nikos Dendias.
He said the use of hoods or masks during demonstrations to hide identities would be perceived as incriminatory instances and punishable by law.
Dendias said the new measure was among many the government was looking at enforcing to protect the public following major riots in December and a spate of attacks by far-left militant groups.
The government has promised to reorganize parts of its police force by creating a rapid-response unit for central Athens and has asked the assistance of Scotland Yard.
Counter-terrorism experts from Britain, who helped Greek authorities break up the terrorist organization November 17 in 2003, reportedly arrived in Athens late Monday to advise their Greek colleagues on how to tackle an emerging terrorism threat.
Reports said British experts would provide advice on restructuring Greece's counter-terrorism unit and to recommend tactics for curbing violence.
Greece has been plagued by daily bombings and arson attacks on banks and multinational businesses since the shooting of the teenager in December which sparked the worst riots the country has seen in decades.
Experts fear that the militant group Revolutionary Struggle and the newly-emerged Sect of Revolutionaries have recruited new members since those riots and have acquired large quantities of arms and explosives.
On Friday, around 40 masked rioters ran through central Athens with axes and iron rods, destroying shop windows of more than 50 businesses and damaging dozens of cars.
The violence has embarrassed Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis' government, which has been criticized for its inability to protect the welfare of citizens.


http://www.phantis.com/news/?newsID=20090317155459

The penalties of wearing a hood will vary from 2 years in prison to a lifetime, according to the offence (while wearing it).
Revilement (excuse my english) of a police officer by a hooded protester will result in 2 years of prison.

[LeninBalls]

What if the wind blows my hood up. :(

[LOLseph Stalin]

What if the wind blows my hood up. http://www.revleft.com/vb/hoods-soon-banned-p1390329/revleft/smilies/sad.gif

Then you get arrested? ;)

[Charles Xavier]

Great an ultraleftist groups spring up, rampages throughout the city, government increases repression, actions didnt achieve anything.

[OneNamedNameLess]

Other methods of covering one's face exist ;)

[Dimentio]

http://www.surlyrobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/jesse_rorschach.jpg

[LOLseph Stalin]

Haha! Nice, Serpent.

[scarletghoul]

Another great government idea lol this will calm the youth down

[JimmyJazz]

Great an ultraleftist groups spring up, rampages throughout the city, government increases repression, actions didn't achieve anything.

I think you would have condemned the February Revolution, April Riots and July Days had you been around.

Do you think the Bolsheviks were voted into power?

[bcbm]

Hoods are banned in a few European countries, notably France and Germany and given how protests there often go, I certainly see this working.

[Bilan]

Great an ultraleftist groups spring up, rampages throughout the city, government increases repression, actions didnt achieve anything.

Oh, for heavens sake. Do you know anything about this situation?

[Charles Xavier]

Oh, for heavens sake. Do you know anything about this situation?
On Friday, around 40 masked rioters ran through central Athens with axes and iron rods, destroying shop windows of more than 50 businesses and damaging dozens of cars.

[bcbm]

Yeah, it was that one incident that did it. :rolleyes:

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

On Friday, around 40 masked rioters ran through central Athens with axes and iron rods, destroying shop windows of more than 50 businesses and damaging dozens of cars.Good job guys. When did "Smash cars!" replace "Smash the state!"? :confused:

[bcbm]

When did some idealized view of struggle as some pretty thing without such violence replace reality?

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

When did some idealized view of struggle as some pretty thing without such violence replace reality?

You're right, the struggle against cars can not be idealized.

Trying to link people not expecting "revolutionaries" to randomly bust up peoples cars and them having an idealized view of a revolution without violence is a big stretch and rather idiotic.

[Ismail]

When did some idealized view of struggle as some pretty thing without such violence replace reality?The death of "dozens of cars" has ignited the revolutionary aspirations of the temporarily carless proletariat of Greece. The bloodletting was truly intense as engines ceased to function and doors broke off. Nearby the petite-bourgeoisie cowered in fear as shop windows were smashed by the teenage anarchist vanguard of the working class, killing the floor and any other inanimate object in the way.

[Yazman]

On Friday, around 40 masked rioters ran through central Athens with axes and iron rods, destroying shop windows of more than 50 businesses and damaging dozens of cars.

I don't see much wrong with this. Sure its not a revolution but whats wrong with it?

[Ismail]

I don't see much wrong with this. Sure its not a revolution but whats wrong with it?Nothing makes me class conscious like having my car smashed or walking along and seeing a brick thrown through a window by a masked teenager.

[Charles Xavier]

If someone scratched my car or set it on fire or looted/vandalized the shop I worked at I'd support measures against them and I'm a communist.

[Poison]

Incidentally, if anyone's interested in the actual hoodie thing...a good Greek communist friend of mine is starting some actions in solidarity with...blah blah blah. Read it yourself (http://dbzer0.com/blog/make-your-avatar-a-hoodie).

[StalinFanboy]

If someone scratched my car or set it on fire or looted/vandalized the shop I worked at I'd support measures against them and I'm a communist.
Or you're a poser :O

[Janine Melnitz]

Yeah, only posers get tied down to, like, possessions, maaan. It sounds like you're working for your car, Tupac Amaru! When's the last time you ate something out of a dumpster? Do you even have any piercings? You don't smash the state by being such a materialist consumerist sheeple.

[StalinFanboy]

Yeah, only posers get tied down to, like, possessions, maaan. It sounds like you're working for your car, Tupac Amaru! When's the last time you ate something out of a dumpster? Do you even have any piercings? You don't smash the state by being such a materialist consumerist sheeple.
I'm glad you agree.

[Nils T.]

If someone scratched my car or set it on fire or looted/vandalized the shop I worked at I'd support measures against them and I'm a communist.Impressive indeed, but I've seen worse. Notably one guy that was a right-wing catholic and pretended to be a situationnist.

[Charles Xavier]

Yeah, only posers get tied down to, like, possessions, maaan. It sounds like you're working for your car, Tupac Amaru! When's the last time you ate something out of a dumpster? Do you even have any piercings? You don't smash the state by being such a materialist consumerist sheeple.


Really? So if someone smashes my car I should be inspired to fight harder against the state because I no longer have my car even though it wasnt the state that destroyed it? My wife would lock me up in a loony bin.

[Poison]

Does no one else get that Lafonte was being sarcastic...?

[JimmyJazz]

On Friday, around 40 masked rioters ran through central Athens with axes and iron rods, destroying shop windows of more than 50 businesses and damaging dozens of cars.

I don't have any idea what happened last Friday, but whatever it was, it was part of a much bigger and ongoing situation in Greece.

[Poison]

I don't have any idea what happened last Friday, but whatever it was, it was part of a much bigger and ongoing situation in Greece.

Weren't all those Greek riots having to do with police murdering some kid?

[JimmyJazz]

Probably about as much as WWI had to do with some guy assassinating Franz Ferdinand.

[taytaz]

and as much to do with the US entering the Middle East over terrorism

[bcbm]

You're right, the struggle against cars can not be idealized.

Trying to link people not expecting "revolutionaries" to randomly bust up peoples cars and them having an idealized view of a revolution without violence is a big stretch and rather idiotic.

The under classes are the only class that can make a revolution and, unless history thus far is completely wrong, their fury about the current order will mean the destruction of objects like cars, though to suggest it is "random" and not specific is incorrect.


The death of "dozens of cars" has ignited the revolutionary aspirations of the temporarily carless proletariat of Greece. The bloodletting was truly intense as engines ceased to function and doors broke off. Nearby the petite-bourgeoisie cowered in fear as shop windows were smashed by the teenage anarchist vanguard of the working class, killing the floor and any other inanimate object in the way.

Teenage? Back to boring ageism are we? How pathetic. Because, you know, it isn't like any Greeks have a real reason to be pissed (government abuse, rising food costs, rising housing costs, etc, etc) and certainly the exploited classes never lash out in the form of a riot and certainly they hate the idea of a few rich cars being burned, as all previous revolts of a similar nature show.


Nothing makes me class conscious like having my car smashed or walking along and seeing a brick thrown through a window by a masked teenager.

Yeah because they certainly target workers' cars over, say, expensive cars.


If someone scratched my car or set it on fire or looted/vandalized the shop I worked at I'd support measures against them and I'm a communist.

And if someone set fire to your job? Proletarian cars are rarely targetted and if they happen to be, so what? The rage of the exploited is rarely pretty and if you've got some ideological stick up your ass and would sooner cry about and report people to the cops then you're worse than worthless to the movement anyway. Support tactics against revolutionaries? Might as well be a scab.

[Unclebananahead]

While the car-busting youths certainly have a legitimate cause, couldn't they utilize a different strategy? One less likely provoke the general public? I sympathize with them, but like comrade Tupac Amarau, I can't help but think that if somebody was bashing my car's windows in, that I'd get sort of pissed myself. It would be different if they were smashing the windows at a police station, town hall, corporate office building, or something comparable.

[Glorious Union]

Greece is dead to me. :mad:

[Pogue]

And once more we see the decrepic, senile old left rear its hand and lament how the disenfranchised youth don't mobilise under the great leader in our glorious Communist Party and fight an orderly struggle as written by Lenin in his great 'What is to be Done?' which, despite being over a century old, is relevant today. If only the youths who have been targetted by a police still rampant with fascism in a former military dictatorship which recently murdered their comrade and shot at them would be materialist enough to realise we can only defeat the state and capitalism by being orderly and by supressing our emotions! Oh! If only uncle Joe was here, to give these violent youths a good spell in the gulags!

I'd seriously question how in-touch and left wing someone is who says they'd support the state against left wing youths who might have damaged their car, even though its well known that in sch cases, it is expensive cars that are targetted, and rightly so. I don't think smashing cars is productive, and I certainly wouldn't want a proletarian's car to be damaged, but I'm well aware that a) Its expensive cars that are targetted b) Angry youths with no representation or defence against an right wing authoritarian government will be inclined to act angrily and c) It is our role not to condemn or as our great friend of the proletariat Tupac has said, support actions against, people who perhaps are angry and disillusioned and do not have the opputunities to struggle in a more effective manner against the state. If only the Greek Communist Party wasn't so slow, out-dated, chauvinistic and authoritarian, they'd be able to engage in some sort of clear class struggle. Alas.

[Bilan]

I don't see much wrong with this. Sure its not a revolution but whats wrong with it?

It's stupid, petty vandalism? That indicates there's something wrong with it. I'm not going to join the crew of inane critics of this action, but there's nothing 'good' about it, nothing to be 'applauded', and nothing will be gained from it.

Edit: ...and as well, this isn't an isolated action, but is one within the broader up rising in Greece, and should be treated as such.

[Black Sheep]

I forgot to post that the attack took place in Kolonaki, which is the wealthiest (and snobbiest) district of Athens.For the rich folk.

This doesnt change the nature of the act, but it sure offers some lulz.

And the attacks could have been provocations (there are rumors that the police was ordered not to intervene, but i dont know for sure).

[Wanted Man]

If only the Greek Communist Party wasn't so slow, out-dated, chauvinistic and authoritarian, they'd be able to engage in some sort of clear class struggle. Alas.
Burning some cars vs organising hundreds of thousands of workers in general strikes.

Hmm...

Anyway, I'm surprised that hoods were even legal before this. In many more "liberal" countries, the riot cops are perfectly willing to end demonstrations because one or two guys were wearing hoods.

I don't generally agree with wearing them, but times change. Surveillance is very intense right now, and if they get your face, they might soon get your ass too. It's not much fun to be snatched up in the street by black-cled guys like in a scenario of some shit libertarian dystopian novel, after having been photographed at a demo, identified and stalked for a while...

Nor is it much fun when the cops release such photographs to the media...

[Jazzratt]

Nothing makes me class conscious like having my car smashed or walking along and seeing a brick thrown through a window by a masked teenager.

Radicalism comes from some old fart waffling on about long dead psuedocommunist loonies, clearly.

I also like how nearly everyone's analysis boils down to single events causing things in isolation. This law isn't just because of "teenagers smashing cars" one day; if it were these laws would have been in place for years. Smashing property has always been involved when angry people go out into the streets to be angry. The hood, though, is often associated with radical leftists being angry on the streets; a group the government of greece have no particular love for.

Charming:


Burning some cars vs organising hundreds of thousands of workers in general strikes.

I wasn't aware that such a dichotomy existed.

[StalinFanboy]

It's stupid, petty vandalism? That indicates there's something wrong with it. I'm not going to join the crew of inane critics of this action, but there's nothing 'good' about it, nothing to be 'applauded', and nothing will be gained from it.

Edit: ...and as well, this isn't an isolated action, but is one within the broader up rising in Greece, and should be treated as such.
wait...



I'm not going to join the crew of inane critics of this action wut

[Wanted Man]

Charming:



I wasn't aware that such a dichotomy existed.
It doesn't. Context is your friend.

[StalinFanboy]

Does no one else get that Lafonte was being sarcastic...?
Duh.


It absolutely boggles my mind that someone who claims to be a communist would support increased state measures against property destruction, especially given the context of the situation. It really just sounds like reactionary bullshit to me. My video camera was stolen in a public park recently, but I hardly support the city putting in cameras in public places.

[Wanted Man]

Of course, these state measures should be thoroughly denounced at all terms. But Tupac's point is simply one of: "Try telling that to some working class guy whose car just got burned out." Most of them won't exactly join in, but will sooner support some "law and order" conservative party. What do you say to them? Maybe some moralising response like: "You're a fucking reactionary, you're supposed to cheer us when we destroy your livelihood."

Anti-social violence may be an outlet of anger for lots of people (not just "angry rich kids" or whatever), but that doesn't mean it's suddenly A-OK, nevermind a great thing to fetishise as "revolutionaries who are at least doing something". :rolleyes:

[StalinFanboy]

Of course, these state measures should be thoroughly denounced at all terms. But Tupac's point is simply one of: "Try telling that to some working class guy whose car just got burned out." Most of them won't exactly join in, but will sooner support some "law and order" conservative party. What do you say to them? Maybe some moralising response like: "You're a fucking reactionary, you're supposed to cheer us when we destroy your livelihood."

Anti-social violence may be an outlet of anger for lots of people (not just "angry rich kids" or whatever), but that doesn't mean it's suddenly A-OK.

How do we know what sorts of cars were burned/vandalized? It think it's a stupid assumption to say that the cars belonged to working class families. I'm going to guess that our Greek comrades are able to tell which cars are expensive.

[Janine Melnitz]

Given that we've never seen a riot in history where the (diversely motivated, by definition unorganized) participants showed any such discrimination, I'd say it's more stupid to assume it's just Lincoln Town Cars getting smashed.

[Nils T.]

I've seen such riots.

[bleh]

Given that we've never seen a riot in history where the (diversely motivated, by definition unorganized) participants showed any such discrimination, I'd say it's more stupid to assume it's just Lincoln Town Cars getting smashed.

Only this wasn’t a spontaneous riot but a premeditated action by an organized political group. Jesus can you people get the conversation past the whole "what if working class cars got smashed" tripe. They didn't. Read any bourgeois news release about this. They all clearly state that an armed group gathered by the "upscale" Kolonaki district then split into two and attacked luxury shops, cars, and banks and threw out leaflets demanding the release of demonstrators imprisoned during the December riots and particularly an anarchist on trial that day for robbing banks. Yes if they damaged working class cars that would be tactically counterproductive in respects to their revolutionary goals but this wasn’t what happened nor is this action particularly different from what has been going on in Greece on a weekly basis for years now (although the scale of property damage was perhaps greater then usual).

These actions are calculated to put pressure on the Greek state to succumb to specific political demands, weaken its all-powerful ahistorical image and its claim to a monopoly on violence, and attack the places of the rich at a time when the Greek economy is at a freefall as a result of the latter’s actions. If this attack happened in a vacuum then it would be questionable at best but as part of an ongoing campaign of confrontation with the state and the bourgeoisie (in which violence against property is only one of many tactics used) it should be treated differently. The questions asked should be in respects to whether there is a correct emphasis on confrontation by the Greek extra parliamentary left in relation to one of focusing on building consciousness and radicalization in the working class organizations not whether some rich blokes broken windows are bad for the movements image (I’m sure insurance will pay for everything).


It's stupid, petty vandalism? That indicates there's something wrong with it. I'm not going to join the crew of inane critics of this action, but there's nothing 'good' about it, nothing to be 'applauded', and nothing will be gained from it.


Well the fact that the Greek state introduced a series of draconian measures in response to this demonstrates that the combined violence of the left is creating some considerate concern in the establishment, even if they tend to exaggerate it at times. Also the fact that all the “opposition” parties, with the exception of the neo-fascists, came out strongly against these measures demonstrates that the overall climate of the country is much more radical then in other western states. I cant imagine in the United States, where I live, the Republicans or Democrats speaking out against some repressive “law and order” legislation introduced in response to anti-establishment violence. As far as applauding it, I think that there’s nothing wrong about breaking windows of luxury shots, even if this were some act of “petty vandalism”, which I don’t think it is. And as for gains, I think if anything at least it puts pressure on the state to “compromise with the moderates” in respects to the arrested demonstrators and ups the ante in their favor, provided left wing violence isn’t contained in the near future.

[JimmyJazz]

like in a scenario of some shit libertarian dystopian novel

:lol:

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

And if someone set fire to your job? Proletarian cars are rarely targetted and if they happen to be, so what? The rage of the exploited is rarely pretty and if you've got some ideological stick up your ass and would sooner cry about and report people to the cops then you're worse than worthless to the movement anyway. Support tactics against revolutionaries? Might as well be a scab.

Are you fucking kidding? If someone vandalized my car, fuck 'em. I don't give a shit if you think I'm somehow being counterrevolutionary by quelling the "rage of the exploited." The working class has to deal with enough shit already, and all you can say is "so what if one of their cars gets fucked up?" Good job, that's totally not going to alienate you from the rest of the population.

[Sasha]

I've seen such riots.

i have been in such riots (more than once...)

for the rest "bleh" said already everything i would like to say about this.... (thanx and welcome to the board)

nice to see the usual "if we would ever get in power we would be even worse reactionarys than the current lot" crowd out in force again.

[Wanted Man]

nice to see the usual "if we would ever get in power we would be even worse reactionarys than the current lot" crowd out in force again.
Who are they?

http://bamapachyderm.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/strawman.jpg

Oh hai, didn't see you back there.

[Ismail]

Teenage? Back to boring ageism are we? How pathetic.

Radicalism comes from some old fart waffling on about long dead psuedocommunist loonies, clearly.I like how when I rightfully point out that teenagers cannot lead a revolution I clearly mean that the true revolutionaries are in hospital beds and shitting themselves at random. Clearly people in their 30's, 40's and 50's (Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Hoxha, Ho Chi Minh, Bakunin, etc.) were absent from revolutions.


Because, you know, it isn't like any Greeks have a real reason to be pissed (government abuse, rising food costs, rising housing costs, etc, etc)Engaging in vandalism does not give the Greek people a revolutionary answer.



Proletarian cars are rarely targetted and if they happen to be, so what?Considering that these riots probably soiled the reputation of anarchism in Greece and your response to making a proletarian's life unintentionally harder is "so what?" then I'd say that workers would be pretty adverse to your revolution.

[Enragé]

It never seizes to suprise how many fucking idiots there still are on the left, can't you just fuck off and get your authoritarian fix somewhere else (so at least i wont have to watch my back). You have a corpse in your mouths and its been rotting for 80 years, brush your teeth already!

Look, the whole lets go smash the shops and cars of the rich ofcourse isnt the most constructive of things to do and i can most definitely see the threat in Greece of the radical left isolating itself because of actions like these - the point however is that i can completely get why people would do this. Its simply people letting out their rage and i fully support them in doing that. Also, though i would prefer different tactics at least it sends a clear message: we're not gonna accept this fucked up world, period.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

It never seizes to suprise how many fucking idiots there still are on the left, can't you just fuck off and get your authoritarian fix somewhere else (so at least i wont have to watch my back). You have a corpse in your mouths and its been rotting for 80 years, brush your teeth already!

Because you can totally tell if someones an authoritarian if they don't support people destroying other peoples cars...


Look, the whole lets go smash the shops and cars of the rich ofcourse isnt the most constructive of things to do and i can most definitely see the threat in Greece of the radical left isolating itself because of actions like these - the point however is that i can completely get why people would do this. Its simply people letting out their rage and i fully support them in doing that. Also, though i would prefer different tactics at least it sends a clear message: we're not gonna accept this fucked up world, period.Look, the whole lets go blow up a car in a crowded area isnt the most constructive of things to do and i can most definitely see the threat in Greece of the radical left isolating itself because of actions like these - the point however is that i can completely get why people would do this. Its simply people letting out their rage and i fully support them in doing that. Also, though i would prefer different tactics at least it sends a clear message: we're not gonna accept this fucked up world, period.

You do realize that this argument of yours could be applied to pretty much anything, right?

[Enragé]

Because you can totally tell if someones an authoritarian if they don't support people destroying other peoples cars...

No, but you can tell if someone's authoritarian/reactionary when all he/she can do is ***** about some people attacking cars and shops in one of the most extremely rich and upperclass neighborhoods of athens and taking the point of supporting the state against actions like these, also completely ignoring the context of class struggle in greece. Apparently for some people here (the process of) revolution is something whereby you follow single file the red flag and the guy waving it - well its not. Its self-liberation, and if people choose to do this by smashing some rich guys car in, well, i cant, wont, blame them (actually i'd be doing the same thing if i didnt think it was a bad idea considering its just bad PR) - i'll support them and try to get into a discussion on tactics, but they're still my comrades.


You do realize that this argument of yours could be applied to pretty much anything, right?

Yes, but it's valid in the case represented here since this wasnt an action directed indiscriminately at people but at material objects symbolising the enormous wealth the rich have accumulated by fucking over the rest of society. Destroying those material objects is a logical way of saying fuck you to the whole situation (it just isnt very constructive - but then again sometimes destruction is construction).

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

No, but you can tell if someone's authoritarian/reactionary when all he/she can do is ***** about some people attacking cars and shops in one of the most extremely rich and upperclass neighborhoods of athens and taking the point of supporting the state against actions like these, also completely ignoring the context of class struggle in greece. Apparently for some people here (the process of) revolution is something whereby you follow single file the red flag and the guy waving it - well its not. Its self-liberation, and if people choose to do this by smashing some rich guys car in, well, i cant, wont, blame them (actually i'd be doing the same thing if i didnt think it was a bad idea considering its just bad PR) - i'll support them and try to get into a discussion on tactics, but they're still my comrades.

Most of the people who were disagreeing with it posted before anyone mentioned that it happened in an upscale neighborhood.

[Unclebananahead]

I forgot to post that the attack took place in Kolonaki, which is the wealthiest (and snobbiest) district of Athens.For the rich folk.

This doesnt change the nature of the act, but it sure offers some lulz.

And the attacks could have been provocations (there are rumors that the police was ordered not to intervene, but i dont know for sure).

Well, this tends to change things a bit. I think I'm somewhat more favorably inclined towards what they did knowing this. That notwithstanding, I'm still not entirely certain of the soundness of this particular strategy. To me it smacks of narodism.

[Pogue]

Well, this tends to change things a bit. I think I'm somewhat more favorably inclined towards what they did knowing this. That notwithstanding, I'm still not entirely certain of the soundness of this particular strategy. To me it smacks of narodism.

You honestly think the people involved sat down and went:

"Guys, if we smash some cars and windows, we'll start a revolution. Thats all it takes, and thus we should continue doing nothing else than this."

No, of course not. They are angry, they have very little opputunity to express their views, and they are sick of seeing such wealth openly around them contrasting with poverty and state repression. And so they reacted as angry people do, and have done throughout history.

[bcbm]

Are you fucking kidding? If someone vandalized my car, fuck 'em. I don't give a shit if you think I'm somehow being counterrevolutionary by quelling the "rage of the exploited." The working class has to deal with enough shit already, and all you can say is "so what if one of their cars gets fucked up?" Good job, that's totally not going to alienate you from the rest of the population.

The working class has rarely, if ever, shown restraint in anger and more often then not target their own neighborhoods when that anger boils over. Apparently they're alienating themselves? And hey, some Greek anarchists reimbursed a small shop owner so maybe they'd buy you a new car too.

In any case, all of these mythical working-class cars that have been vandalized has fuck-all to do with what actually happened so why are we still talking about it?


I like how when I rightfully point out that teenagers cannot lead a revolutionThat wasn't what you were "pointing out," if you were pointing out anything beyond making some sarcastic remark directed at nothing anybody has actually said, actually. I'm also not sure where this idea of yours that everyone doing this is teenagers comes from?

And its also wrong to say that the youth cannot play a major part in revolutionary struggles. Or were there no youth involved in Paris in 1968 or Italy during the Hot Summer and Years of Lead (where cars also got fucked, fancy that)?


Engaging in vandalism does not give the Greek people a revolutionary answer.Who said it did?


Considering that these riots probably soiled the reputation of anarchism in GreeceActually I think it was pretty much the opposite given that tactics used by anarchists for decades in Greece were suddenly being used by people who don't identify as such and may not have been political at all prior to the shooting of an anarchist. If you're going to make such speculations maybe you should try to learn about the situation first.


your response to making a proletarian's life unintentionally harder is "so what?" then I'd say that workers would be pretty adverse to your revolution.My revolution? I don't have one, sorry. Any revolution would certainly make a large number of proletarian's lives harder though, much harder than their car getting busted up. Either way, when things are as they are, I think there are more important things to worry about than a fucking car. From a reporter after the Oscar Grant murder and riots:

"I was writing a story for the paper about how upset people are and how unjust the killing of Oscar Grant was and my car was being burned up. But at the same time I really understand how outraged people are and I’m outraged myself."

[Janine Melnitz]

The working class has rarely, if ever, shown restraint in anger and more often then not target their own neighborhoods when that anger boils over. Apparently they're alienating themselves?
Short answer is "yes".

But that doesn't seem to be what's happening in Greece? Anyway I take back what I said about "riots", being pretty uncertain now as to what the situation really is.