No 2 EU

[bellyscratch]

http://www.no2eu.com/

What are peoples opinions on this?

Its a platform for the EU elections in Britain this year

Apparently "This is an electoral coalition, with initial support from the RMT, the Socialist Party, the Communist Party of Britain (publishers of the Morning Star), Solidarity - Scotland's Socialist Movement, and a number of trades union councils. Respect is still considering its involvement" from here (http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/7070)

[Wanted Man]

A campaign like this can be worthwhile. At the moment, the European Parliament groups are still made up of all the different national parties. It is not possible to vote for, say, a unified European communist party. Some communist parties participate in the Left group along with reformist parties, while others don't.

Until this changes, spreading awareness about the EU is a good move. The failed EU Constitution and its substitute, the Lisbon agenda. What does this concretely mean? A different view that urgently needs to be heard when the government cynically promotes participation "in Europe" that most people consider to be a distant thing, occuring in backrooms in Brussels.

[Pogue]

I think this is great news. I'll be encouraging people to vote for them. I said in the other thread I didn't like the name btu I think its quite good now. I have high hopes for this.

[Bilan]

What's wrong with the EU?
(Not supporting - dont know much about it, is all. All I know if it is that it makes it easier to travel :lol:)

[alhop10]

I am still forming my oppinion on this. It seems on the face of it like a good idea but I have some concerns. So far I have been saying to people (in the northwest) that we have to 'vote to keep out the BNP', in that, under proportional representation, the more people who vote the lower the BNP's percentage will be ( i think NAZI Nick needs about 7% to get a seat). My concern is that this could detract energies from more general anti-fascist activity and unless it gets a really big turn out could just be a waste of time.
I can only speak for the northwest but where I live the neither the CP nor the SP have a very high level of activity and the RMT doesn't have an organisation like it does in the London with the tube so I am finding it hard to see where they are going to get campaigners from. I am happy to have my mind changed on this but right now im am still just encouraging people to vote for anyone but the BNP.

[alhop10]

What's wrong with the EU?
(Not supporting - dont know much about it, is all. All I know if it is that it makes it easier to travel :lol:)

I understand the EU to be a tool of neoliberlism and globalisation. It enables the free transfer of labour, goods and funds between countries. The EU parliament is a crock polulated by freeloaders and the EU or lisbon treaty or whatever you want to call it is the effective ratification of all this into one state.

[Reuben]

The real problem with the EU is that it is anti-democratic. It insulates issues of crucial importance to people lives from mass politics. This is a piece I just posted on The Third Estate (http://www.thethirdestate.net) about it:

It’s hard to get away from the reality that most people who are virulently opposed to the EU are twats, who probably shed a tear while watching videos of the queens coronoation on youtube.

Yet when the elections come round in a couple of months I will be officially joining their ranks when i offer my vote to the NO2EU (http://no2eu.com/) coalition. The NO2EU is a new left wing euro-skeptic trade union backed organisation. On their about page they say the following:

We want to see a Europe of independent, democratic states that value its public services and does not offer them to profiteers; a Europe that guarantees the rights of workers and does not put the interests of big business above that of ordinary people. We believe the current structures of the EU makes this impossible.

Personally speaking I have never had any great interest in defending British sovereignty in and of itself, and in abstract terms have no problem with the idea of nations pooling sovereignty. Yet the real issue with the EU is that of democracy. The point is that, whether we like it or not, it is within of nation states that democratic power - insofar as it exists - can currently be brought to bear. The real problem with policy decisions being made in Brussels, or by the European Court of Justice, is not that they are made beyound these shores. Rather it is that they are made outside the realm of mainstream public debate.

Today we have witnessed the ridiculous spectacle of the unelected EU commission telling the elected governments of France, Greece, Ireland, Spain and the UK to rein in there fiscal deficits. Deficit spending, of course, is a crucial tool through governments can ameliorate rising unemployment, and lessen the enormous pain caused by recession. Reining it in, meanwhile, means cutting public services. It should be obvious to absolutely anybody with an ounce of commitment to democratic principles that decisions on public spending should be taken by elected and accountable politicians.
But could the EU be democratised? The answer I would give is it possibly could in formal terms, and that it absolutely couldnt in real terms. Arguably it is impossible for a territory in which 20 odd languages are spoken to operate as a democracy in any real sense. Pressure groups, political parties, civil society, the popular press will necessarily find it difficult to operate on a truly transnational level. It is a structure far more conducive to negotiations between elites, between bureaucrats carrying around armies of translators, than to popular action spanning the scope of the territory. Meanwhile any social and industrial gains that can be won within a national framework are necessarily imperilled by a structure enforces absolute mobility of capital, goods and services.

So, as somebody who has no interest in British patriotism, but does have an interest in making popular interest and popular action the centre of politics, I will be voting ‘NO’ to the EU.

[Mike Morin]

I am not familiar with European politics, but the formation of the EU, in a way is a step in the right direction.

Although, it is currently a neo-liberal Capitalist ally of the Fascist United States and a wimpy (I'm thankful for that) NATO partner, it has taken an important step towards a world currency (one less divisive nationalist tool).

If the EU could be turned into a Socialist stronghold (of the anarcho-syndicalist sort, that is minimize the governments to those functions that only foster and facilitate the transition to world socialism) that would be a positive step towards a World Socialist Union (WU or WSU).


Mike Morin
www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com (http://www.peoplesequityunion.blogspot.com)

[Reuben]

If only the view from America of red europe was valid.

[svenne]

As far as i have understood EU, it's pretty much run by bureaucrats which aren't voted on, while the parliament that is somewhat democratic (you get to vote bla bla) doesn't have too much power.

And that is why we won't turn EU into anything good, it's not possible.

[Crux]

While I don't think th Eu as such can be reformed, that's not the purpose of the list either. By running for the european parliament on an Anti-EU and workingclassbase we have the possibility of raising the fight against neoliberalism both at home and abroad.

[alhop10]

So, as somebody who has no interest in British patriotism, but does have an interest in making popular interest and popular action the centre of politics, I will be voting ‘NO’ to the EU.

I would vote 'no' to the EU as well if we were asked, but we are not being asked. I don't think we can say that a vote for no2eu is a vote against the EU in any real sense. I like the idea of a viable electoral alternative in the EU elections but im still sceptical. Its very late in the game to start with, the elections are what, 11 weeks away? My priority in the northwest is stopping the BNP getting in and im not sure that no2eu can help with that and could even hinder anti-fascist activity.

[Reuben]

Arguably expecting young pissed off workers to vote new labour as the only alternative isnt particularly effective at keeping the BNP out.

[Q]

Arguably expecting young pissed off workers to vote new labour as the only alternative isnt particularly effective at keeping the BNP out.

Exactly this. Telling workers to vote New Labour to keep out the BNP is extremely stupid. The policies of New Labour over the past decade have been the prime cause of the rise of the BNP in the first place! People are getting disillusioned with New Labour because of their neoliberal politics, thus many look for an alternative. There is no real alternative on the left of New Labour so it bears little wonder the BNP can make such gains.

[alhop10]

Telling workers to vote New Labour to keep out the BNP is extremely stupid. The policies of New Labour over the past decade have been the prime cause of the rise of the BNP in the first place!

I wouldn't dispute this. Up until now I have been saying to people in the northwest, vote whoever you want to, lib dem, green, labour, just vote. Because the more people who vote, the smaller the BNP's percentage. I think that's a simple message. I think that no2eu has the potential to confuse things and split resources on the left in terms of street activity. The SP and the CP who are the main supporters aren't very active here (liverpool). This year ive seen the CP once and the SP only at Gaza demos. no2eu isnt an electoral alternative to the left of labour, its a one issue, one time campaign.

[Devrim]

I think this is great news. I'll be encouraging people to vote for them. I said in the other thread I didn't like the name btu I think its quite good now. I have high hopes for this.

It is not really very anarcho-syndicalist, is it?

Devrim